Is that supposed to be an Estoc?

[Bonzereli]

I agree that swing should be a weaker blunt damage. I don't think the pierce damage should be anywhere near what you are suggesting. I do agree that the secondary mode should get a good bump in pierce damage. It does need to remain balanced with swing directions, damage, and cost.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

Due to the high amounts of negative feedback that I believe is directed at the suggested pierce stat (that was proposed by Jeade) I have lowered the suggested damage number.

Further I'd like to clarify that I don't use 2h at the moment and hate fighting against lolstab and 2h in general.  I simply want stats that reflect the weapon.

[chaosegg]

(click to show/hide)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

Estoc
weapon length: 107
weight: 1.7
difficulty: 11
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 107
thrust damage: 30 pierce
swing damage: 28 cut                        <--  <--  <-- EDIT: According to hotfix, cut damage  is 26 (site unchanged); My point stands.
slots: 2
Secondary Mode (polearm?)

here it is again: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoc

TLDR: The Estoc is an EDGELESS weapon specifically designed for piercing plate.  Effectively a two handed rondel dagger.

EDITED (Due to feedback)Suggested primary damage stats for the Estoc:

15-18 blunt swing damage
30-35 pierce

Alternative 2 directional (2h & polearm thrust) variant or secondary mode:
35-40 pierce.

+1
Agree.
Low damage blunt swing seems to make a lot more sense to me.

As it stands now, the weapon looks so good people are likely to start looming it and then be upset if/when it gets nerfed back to semi-realism....

[Utrakil]

can someone please post an ingame picture of the estoc? The shop doesn't provide a picture and I don't want to buy it just to have a look.
Thanks

[Tydeus]

It's not getting blunt damage unless we decide to change the model. Not all estocs had blunted edges.
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_mrl_estoc.html
"Some estoc blades retain cutting edges while others are so thick in cross-section that they are simply hilted spikes."

Thick cross section, meaning the angles at the edges were more like 75 degree angles, rather than the 20-30 that most bladed weapons would have. Check out the model, blunt wouldn't make sense. Even if you assumed the blade wasn't properly sharpened, the thin blade would still make it more suitable for cutting than bludgeoning.

[Lethwin Far Seeker]

It's not getting blunt damage unless we decide to change the model. Not all estocs had blunted edges.
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_mrl_estoc.html
"Some estoc blades retain cutting edges while others are so thick in cross-section that they are simply hilted spikes."

Thick cross section, meaning the angles at the edges were more like 75 degree angles, rather than the 20-30 that most bladed weapons would have. Check out the model, blunt wouldn't make sense. Even if you assumed the blade wasn't properly sharpened, the thin blade would still make it more suitable for cutting than bludgeoning.

Then change the name to something that accurately reflects the model.  What you have there is some kind of a slender longsword, not an Estoc.
These are Estocs:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[HUtH]

^ Isn't that a chronologically later weapon(like XVI c.)(like Sidesword btw...)? This Estoc in game is something earlier I suppose, kinda 'proto-estoc', more medieval-ish.

[Rebelyell]

Imo 40 pierce for a lolstab weapon is very low, better make it 100000 just to be sure that 2hand heroes will kill anything.

its 32 you dummy

[Rebelyell]

It's not getting blunt damage unless we decide to change the model. Not all estocs had blunted edges.
http://www.myarmoury.com/review_mrl_estoc.html
"Some estoc blades retain cutting edges while others are so thick in cross-section that they are simply hilted spikes."

Thick cross section, meaning the angles at the edges were more like 75 degree angles, rather than the 20-30 that most bladed weapons would have. Check out the model, blunt wouldn't make sense. Even if you assumed the blade wasn't properly sharpened, the thin blade would still make it more suitable for cutting than bludgeoning.

20 blunt dmg  will meake that sword op
better keep it cut dmg imo

[Oberyn]

When I first heard about the Estoc, I also figured it would be an edgeless sword dedicated entirely to piercing. That's what the name evokes for me anyways, an oversized needle.

from Old French estoc (“the point of a sword, rapier”), deverbal of estoquer, estochier (“to stab, thrust”), from Middle Dutch stoken (“to thrust, poke”) or Middle High German stoken (“to stab, pierce”), both from Proto-Germanic *stukōną (“to be stiff, push, thrust”), from Proto-Indo-European *(s)teug- (“to beat, thrust, push”)

[chaosegg]

Meh, nevermind.
Far as the stats are now (30p thrust, 28c swing)
the Estoc might be "relatively balanced within the 2h category",
even if it doesn't make a lot of sense realism-wise... many other things are far worse for realism-purposes.

[Ronin]

I own a MW Estoc now. I'd say it is a balanced sword. Swings do very low damage, so you mostly have to use the thrust attack. Which tones down your strength a bit.

[chaosegg]

I own a MW Estoc now. I'd say it is a balanced sword. Swings do very low damage, so you mostly have to use the thrust attack. Which tones down your strength a bit.

Interesting! Thanks for that info!

For a while I was thinking the swing should be something more like (less than) <25c or <15b ,
but I have come to see I could easily have just been obsessing too much over the "realism factors", instead of the "balance factors".

[Ronin]

Well the swings still do some damage of course, otherwise it would have been near to useless. Sometimes they even glance when executed poorly. It's no surprise since it does lower damage than most of the 1h swords.

There is also that small stun when your thrust attack gets blocked.

Other than that, estoc is a very fast weapon with the one of the best thrust attacks if not the best already. One of the best parts was using the thrust against incoming cavalry. Killing the rider in one hit.

By the way, my estoc is gone