Why cRPG Doesn't Need To Become Faster

[Kafein]

in my experience with lots of different isp's etc.. Game becomes truly enjoyable at less than 45-50 ping. Above that, expect less control and more random glances, less accuracy in timing etc.

Your avatar is awesome

[woody]

If weapon speeds go up I look forward to spamming longswords, miadaos and scimitars non stop.

Also buff damage and weapon speed again for faster weapons because blocking is for wusses.

On a serious note, how about a minimum ping? Maybe then people with 20 ping or less wont find it too easy.

[Kafein]

I heard on dev IRC that the ping balancer already midly fucks over people with < 50 ping, but that was long ago.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Your avatar is awesome

This.

Screw all you pot heads an stoner's this mod needs a weapon speed increase duels are incredible boring and just plain.... 

A much better way to make duels less boring would be to add a lot more things you can keep track of (not talking stamina btw but actual things such as kicks, jumps and chambers).

Eh, Wouldn't mind faster run speeds.

Agi feels kinda pointless at the moment.

Faster run speeds would be more fun in my personal opinion, I was mainly talking about speeding everything up, but faster runspeeds aren't really all that necessary in my opinion.

On a serious note, how about a minimum ping? Maybe then people with 20 ping or less wont find it too easy.

Pretty sure there already is a minimum worthwhile ping of 40, ain't sure though.

[Pentecost]

I agree with what you're saying, but I can also see where the other side is coming from too.

The reason some people want to see the game sped up is that any player of decent ability--not even one of the PROs with 2 years of playtime, just your average pretty good cRPG player--who decides to just focus on blocking and to not attack at all can pretty much do so indefinitely as long as he has space to back up so that you can't kick him. They say that's a symptom of the difficulty of melee combat not being adjusted to account for the increase in player ability over the lifetime of the mod, and, from what I've observed, they may have a point.

As you've noted though, just speeding up the game is not the only or necessarily best solution to the situation.

[Jarlek]

It's a little of both tbh. Why would it be a bad suggestion ?

Edit: Mother of god, I've created a monster! All I wanted was to make a reply, but then I just kept writing! Someone stop me D:

(click to show/hide)

I don't want to decrease hp or buff overall damage. I kinda like that it's not always about who gets the first hit in. This is how it ought to be for anyone wearing armour, even more so for plate. This means that getting a lucky hit in, while giving an advantage, doesn't end the fight (except for those damn super STR guys). Having a decent time on a melee fight unless you are completely rofl-stomping someone is a good thing. What I would prefer is having it so you (against armoured enemies) need to get multiple hits in before they die. This takes skill because you not only have to get past the defense of an enemy, but you will have to do so repeatedly while still maintaining your own defenses.

Personally I would like to increase the importance of armour (especially against cut) while keeping it so any "correct" hit would still least cause a stagger (maybe even 0 damage attacks should stagger if it is timed right) and reduce the effectiveness of STR.

Give the anti-armour weapons a nerf, but make it so that they are almost required to use against someone in full plate. Give some incentive to go into battle with more than 1 weapon. I'm all for all classes having a fighting chance against every other, but also giving that for weapons and armour is a bit over the top. Sorry to go realism, but most people didn't go to battle with 1 weapon. They carried knives, daggers, hatchets, additional sidearms like maces etc. Let us get some reason to bring them out. This could also mean making halfswording more decent. See plate? Sorry, but you will have to halfsword his ass to get through, or stunlock him with your non-penetrating cut swings until an ally stabs him with an awlpike or bashes him with a maul.

As I mentioned, it would be nice for attacks that do 0 damage due to low PS or cut vs high armour (but not because of hiltslashing/hitting early in the animation/bad angle) to still stagger an enemy. Sure, even if you don't penetrate their armour to damage them with your cut weapon, you still hit them hard enough to interrupt their swing against you, giving you time to switch to a secondary weapon or halfsword or flip your weapon around (from cut to blunt, like the axes have).

Right now STR is Survival (IF) AND damage (PS/PD/PT), while athletics is only mobility (athl/riding) and accuracy/hybriding (wpf. only 100 needed for melee). Most people don't use ranged or multiple weapons (why is this? I would love if going into battle with only 1 weapon was a BAD thing), so if you have to choose between Damage AND Survival or Mobility, why go for the 1 out of 3 instead of the 2 out of 3?

Ofc, as it is now, ranged needs to same amount of hits to kill someone (not counting high STR in both the hitting and surviving part), so that needs to be changed. I always wanted to look on ranged as something that kills only unarmoured, wounds armoured as they move closer and then pick up a melee weapon when the enemy gets close. That's how I like to play as an archer and I still do. A mace, pick or hammer and 6 ps is good enough when your enemy is at half health (or less) after you shot them.

[Kafein]

Right now STR is Survival (IF) AND damage (PS/PD/PT), while athletics is only mobility (athl/riding) and accuracy/hybriding (wpf. only 100 needed for melee). Most people don't use ranged or multiple weapons (why is this? I would love if going into battle with only 1 weapon was a BAD thing), so if you have to choose between Damage AND Survival or Mobility, why go for the 1 out of 3 instead of the 2 out of 3?

I don't really agree with this. Both my experience and actual numbers tend to show that there is little difference between the actual (all variables considered) damage throughput of STR and AGI builds when you don't go out of the 24/15 - 15/24 range, which is I believe the vast majority of the playerbase. STR builds however, can take a lot of punishment.

But I get your point.

[Jarlek]

Oh fuck you Leshma, you put me on a writing spree again!

I don't really agree with this. Both my experience and actual numbers tend to show that there is little difference between the actual (all variables considered) damage throughput of STR and AGI builds when you don't go out of the 24/15 - 15/24 range, which is I believe the vast majority of the playerbase. STR builds however, can take a lot of punishment.

But I get your point.

You are talking about the difference between 8 PS and 5 PS I assume? Yeah, it's actually not that big. Hitting in the middle of the animation, holding attacks and movement speed can more than make up for this. Which I find cool. But it really becomes broken when you get 10 or more. The main drawback on high STR builds should be the mobility, but as long as you take the longest reaching, swingable, melee weapons (greatswords, glaive and poleaxes) then you are completely fine, because you will never be outreached. Again, not a problem if they could just be shot to death, but since the slow, high damaging guys also have the more health, that also makes them able to soak so many projectiles. Why waste 5 arrows (pluss missed shots) on a slow STR guy when you can kill the 18/18 5 IF guy with two? Also, 90% of the people with a shield is also walking as slow as the STR guys while taking way fewer projectiles. Shields shouldn't slow you down so much.

Doing the right things to max your damage should be rewarded, I actually think they should nerf the damage of the "hit early in animation" (which is why hiltslashing works) high damaging weapons even more. Currently it just makes them as fast as the faster weapons (with sameish damage), but able to do a slower, more damaging, attack too.

Last gen when I was crossbowman I got *name removed* raging on me for surviving 2 hits from his Great Axe, even though he had 8 PS (had 10% left), while I killed him in 3 hits with my military hammer. I tried to explain to him that it was because he was hitting too early in his animations with not held attacks, while I did held attacks, aimed at his head and used his momentum against him. But he just kept ignoring what I wrote and calling me bad names