Ultimate solution to game balance.

[Kafein]

Hiltslashing is painful because it is easy to pull off and breaks the combat rythm. Breaking the combat rythm is a good thing, as long as it doesn't turn it into a totally depthless random rock-paper-scissors game a-la "you hold/feint, I spam, I win - you attack normally, I spam, I lose", which is the case for hiltslashing. In the end, fighting hiltslashers is just a matter of knowing who are the hiltslashers in the first place, and play accordingly ( that is, blockblockattackblockblockattack and forgetting about doing interesting things like feints and holds ). I think hiltslashers are boring because they force the opponent to be uncreative, make the outcome more random and draw duels for hours.

Removing it altogether would actually speed up my combats because I wouldn't need to switch to Urist mode.

[Cyclopsided]

Hiltslashing is incredibly easy, but is also incredibly easy to defeat by countering their swing&footwork direction.
A good hiltslasher will automatically start the second swing, but cancel it only if the enemy properly counters it - thus making it a safe move and not a gamble.
Fighting a good hiltslasher is annoying since they look like they are taking so much risk but aren't, but they have a specific weakness toward chambering that I love to exploit. Soon as you break them by punishing their hiltslashing they turn to other things and it get's nice and deep into combat with all the tricks.

in EU the metagame has lots of feinting which I don't understand as an NA dueler who doesn't feint more than 1 out of 15 wings. There is so much more depth outside of feintspamming that I don't want to type about, and every feint leaves yourself open to such simple counter attacks by someone with good timing... Sure you can block them, but it leaves you so open and ready to be countered.

Kafein, I think you need to have some practice on exploiting all the weakness those hiltslash-random-draw result players have though. Feinting is NOT it though.
Hiltslashers are my favorite attack style to fight in dueling. Because once you break that surface, it get's fun (or you automatically win).

Try not feinting at all for two weeks and explore the other ends of combat a little, you might find a few interesting tricks/timings that absolutely crush hiltslashers ;)

[owens]

^I dont care.

Sorry Frank i didn't realise you felt that way and i was more trying to demonstrate that I am not a new player raging but an experienced one trying to improve the game. A was under the impression that you had some respect or were at least heard of in NA. It is true that the last time I watched you playing you got railed, no offence but you were using a stodgy build designed for playing with high ping against the unaware and vulnerable.

Any way i am more trying to solve the realism and predominantly game play issues that arise from pole arms that are also swords. Imagine hitting someone with the tip of your spear and delivering cut instead of a very low blunt value just because you got you footwork and pause dead on.

I think it is worth pursuing. Imagine hitting someone over head with the pommel of your sword and doing blunt knocking them flat on their ass .

[Kafein]

It's not that I don't know other tricks than feinting and holding, but I prefer these two and they work very well on 80% of the players I fight. Since I use a 1h, playing with reach is barely possible, kicking makes me a sitting duck and chamberblocking often doesn't work because the enemy gets out of my reach by the time I complete it, not to mention the strict timing with 1h and that it's still blockable.


Also, things that aren't feinting or holding always end up being spam when you get to the bottom of it and I don't like that.

[MrShine]

Also, things that aren't feinting or holding always end up being spam when you get to the bottom of it and I don't like that.

I don't think that's really true.

"Spam" often comes from someone making a risky swing that leaves them vulnerable to counterattack.  It works sometimes because the other player isn't expecting a spam attack and is attempting a feint/hold whatever.  Most of the time this comes from someone who doesn't understand how combat works or if someone becomes impatient and tries to steal a hit.  Yes it can be annoying to die from "spam" in this way, but whenever I fall prey to it I try to remind myself to pay more attention to the enemy's swings.  It is very easy to defeat a simple spammer, because all you need to do is block -> standard attack.

However there are plenty of times where "spam" works because you win the positioning battle or you recognize the other player's next swing isn't appropriate.  This is the "educated spam" that actually has battle merit IMO.  If I am positioned with a 1H left swing and I see the enemy try to do a right swing I know that I have a good chance to get my swing in first based on positioning.   In the similar manner many 2H players attempt the side-swing -> backup & thrust attack.  If you aren't prepared to move forward you can get caught by this "spam" but it's actually not spam at all.  Similarly you can counter it by being prepared to move forward or to try and chamber their thrust.

So I think that "spam" and "orchestrated spam" should be separated, one is a style based on ignorance and the other is calculated... it's just hard to distinguish the two sometimes 



TLDR: I don't think the combat system needs to be changed any further to prevent hiltslashes - they already were nerfed and are much more rare now.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

^I dont care.

Sorry Frank i didn't realise you felt that way and i was more trying to demonstrate that I am not a new player raging but an experienced one trying to improve the game. A was under the impression that you had some respect or were at least heard of in NA. It is true that the last time I watched you playing you got railed, no offence but you were using a stodgy build designed for playing with high ping against the unaware and vulnerable.

Any way i am more trying to solve the realism and predominantly game play issues that arise from pole arms that are also swords. Imagine hitting someone with the tip of your spear and delivering cut instead of a very low blunt value just because you got you footwork and pause dead on.

I think it is worth pursuing. Imagine hitting someone over head with the pommel of your sword and doing blunt knocking them flat on their ass .

Thanks for that, sorry for imploding. It's just kind of felt like every time I see you or sudo one of you insults me right off the bat. I'll endeavour to put all this crap under the bridge and forget about it.

Take a look at Chivalry http://www.chivalrythegame.com they have a pretty awesome hit detection system and what your talking about will definitely be possible with it.

Take a look at dev blog 1 http://www.chivalrythegame.com/blog/?page_id=111

[owens]

Is age of chivalry any good?

What I am really asking is does it have manual blocking?
I know that you "super good" players don't think that improving the combat system is important but i think if cRPG wants to keep up with all the alternative games it needs to adapt and change all the time.

[Zisa]

Spam... mashing the button.

Not spam - planning your attacks and executing them. It's still not spam if your opponent can not handle it.

[owens]

Go away.

I am not trying to end spam.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Yeah it has manual blocking, it's timed as well. you have to aim your block into the swing and if you don't you can get stunned and damaged even for landing a "block". It could be pretty interesting, I just really don't like first person and they are pushing it as a first person game even though it seems to have third person. Really not sure. I prefer the look of War of the Roses but again that could wind up being horrible, I just hope one of these things comes up with the goods.

[Black Wind]

Now in regards to the OP, I think sweet-spots should be maximised, and hilt-slashing should deal negligible damage. This would really intensify polearm builds, and help with pike bullshit.

It's really unrealistic how being hit with a pike for maximum damage ehen it's poking out the other side.

[owens]

^exactly

Of course it took a PK's mind to comprehend the improvements that could be made to cRPG.