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« on: January 11, 2012, 10:30:13 pm »
Since the times i witnessed people raging about ranged, espessialy archers goes into the thousands, I'd like to take this thread as an opportunity to share my point of view.
I will adress this post to the "Melee vs. Archer" disputes in the first place, as melees are probably the most common thus most raging targets for archers.
Being close to Gen 4 archer I'm definitly not the most experienced archer this mod has seen, although I think I've managed to do quite well. Due to the fact that I am one of the very people inflicting this, oh so horrible suffering to you guys and therefore, am very well familiar with the reactions, my so far gained experience leads me to the following:
THESIS
The main problem with archery, if there is any problem at all, are ... the targets.
"OmfGz l0L" you might want to retort, trying to express your disbelieve but hold it. Let us first memorize the most important differences between melee and archer, given they are of the same level and skill ( pure archer, no hybrids ) and compare:
ANALYSIS
Melee
ADVANTAGES in comparison to archers
- more damage
- higher attackspeed
- stronger armored
- usually need 1 overhead for archers, 2 hits at most
- dont need to spend skillpoints in order to even hit enemies
- dont need to aim and plan shots
- not being interrupted by friendlies as often
- not as dependent on teamplay/support
- can easily dodge arrows due to extreamly low missile speeds in this mod
- can easily rape archers in cqc due to their build limitations
- can carry shields that supply magic 360° energy forcefields (almost)
- dont have to care about ammo
- any object on the map can be used as an indestructible siegeshield
- lack of momentum allows for sudden, unrealistic and unpredictable movement, making yourself a very hard target
maybe more ...
Archer
ADVANTAGES in comparison to Melee
- ranged attacks
- blocking skill not necessarily needed to kill enemies
- very high headshot damage
and thats about it. Not listed things both classes can achieve, such as stun on hit or ath whoring or similar.
SUMMARY
Looking at the gathered information, it seems melees are quite OP in comparison to archers. They exceed combat effiency in almost every category. The one and only advantage archers can call their own indeed is just the ability to shoot from afar. But ranged attacks being easy to dodge, arrows slow in speed, aiming easy to trick, doesnt this mean archers should lose like 90% of the time when it comes to 1 v 1 scenarios ( excluding roofcamping and other rulebreaking ) ?
Yes, it does.
Try to remember a random situation where one archer fights one melee. Of course you immedeatly remember that situation, where Blackbow or Cheapshot did a 360 no scope jump headshot, because you want to remember those. But to be honest, 90% of the time it ends with the melee being able to dodge most or even all arrows, before he gets close and it goes over into a melee fight. And with most likely 0PS and 1 WPF you know what will happen.
SOLUTION
As stated above, when ever you get hit by an archer, the possibility that you did something wrong is incredibly high. The three main mistakes, I see when I play are:
I - Underestimating archery skills
II - The lack of Awareness
III - Greed
I:
There is something of greatest importance most melees seem not to understand:
Given the according skill, archers can shoot, extremely accurate.
As trivial this might sound I cant stress this enough. Other than melees, archers need to spend skillpoints for higher accuracy just being able to reliably hit enemies at all at certain distances. BUT there is a tendency that some shots go off in a rather large spread and some shots are of decent accuracy.
That means just because this first arrow landed 10 feet next you does not eliminate the chance that the next arrow will impact right between your eyes, even at long ranges.
So the next time an archer misses a relatively easy shot on you, dont expect him to be a noob and try to hunt him down for this matter. What you should do is expecting him to be an experienced player who just got hindered by his skilltree for a second there, unless you know, or he has actually prooven himself to consistantly not being able to hit anything. If you notice you just tried to dodge an unskilled archer who would not have hit you anyway ... well better safe than sorry. To sum up this part:
Just never underestimate an archer that has visual on you, no matter what range, angle or equipment.
II:
As a melee you are probably more interested what happens in a 15 feet radius around you, than checking wether archers 100s of meters away are taking aim at you. Well sadly if you dont have this kind of awareness you will be most likely picked out of the crowd by ranged. As mentioned before, given the right skill, equipment and build, archers can shoot very accurately. If you are continuing to walk in a straight line for more than 4 seconds it is as easy to hit you for a skilled archer like it is for you to swing your sword in someone standing afk not blocking.
To give a little solace, this is a problem archers have to deal with ever since, because being a low HP target means you are the first being targeted by the first range, melee, cav that spots you. So if you ever get shot by an archer, while you are wearing a shield with no enemies close by, you definitly did something wrong. It is very usefull to have that "freelook" option bound to a fast accessable key for this matter. To sum up this part:
Even if it will cost some extra effort and concentration: Be aware of your surroundings, take a look behind every now and then.
III:
Greed ... one of the lamest reasons to die. The presence of archers seem to influence melee brains like the look of a bone does with a dog. Just because there is an archer somewhere one the map does not mean that you, and only you have to hunt that archer down and kill him. ESPECIALLY NOT when there are already 5 other people chasing him through the entire map already. Also its astonishing how easy it is to fool them over and over again. When an archer looks at you for a second, pulls his bow and turns away, like he didnt notice you, this is the last moment you should have already realised that its a trap. I still cant believe how many kills I made just this week using that trick, which is problably as old as M&B itself. One time I even made a pure ath archer just to see how many enemies I could pull through the map. Record was 7 melees and 2 cav pulled to the border of the map in the middle of a round. To sum up this part:
You dont have to kill that archer. And if you have to, dont charge up front and dont let yourself be fooled by obvious traps.
CONCLUSION
An archer that kills you, either deserves the kill for putting a lot of effort into it including positioning himself accordingly, reading your movements, reading dodgingstyle, reading your intentions and therefore correctly placing the shot,
or
is just lucky,
or
you just were too lazy to put so much effort into surviving just to not get killed by them "archerscum". And I'm pretty convinced that about 70% of all deaths that has been caused due to archers could have been prevented, if "the 3 holy rules to prevent unnecessary death from ranged" would have been taken into account.
Regarding everything mentioned before, thus closing the circle and following up with my thesis from the beginning I claim:
Archers are not OP and dont need any nerf, there are many ways to outplay them, just use the possibilities the game provides you.
***
I want to make sure this is my personal opinion. No one has to be offended. Some parts might need some extra work but this is all I can think of now. I'd be pleased to hear your response.
Thx
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