cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Vygar on January 12, 2011, 06:23:58 pm

Title: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Vygar on January 12, 2011, 06:23:58 pm
    I've been playing Pike/Spear and Spear/Shield lately and I've come to the conclusion that spear thrust needs some kind of adjustment as it seems a bit gimped.  With the mechanics being what they are, the thrusting attack of the spear, is far too easy to block and also doesn't inflict enough damage to warrant it being such an easy attack to defend against. 

    I think that this attack should either increase in tthrust speed (likely not even possibl) or significant boost in thrusting damage to offset this flaw in the attack/defend mechanics in the engine.  The reason for this is that especially/specifically when spear/shield is employed, being limited to a single attack direction makes the weapon nearly useless as it's attacks can be fended off too easily.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Sir_Walther on January 12, 2011, 06:25:19 pm
Yes spear needs a new animation.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Vexus on January 12, 2011, 06:27:59 pm
I would remove the upward hit and make it a thrust to the face.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: DesertEagle on January 12, 2011, 06:31:23 pm
I think there must be some kind of chance of blocking thrust attack with a weapon.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Opium.dk on January 12, 2011, 06:44:13 pm
Increasing thrust speed would be a good idea.

Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: XXXman on January 12, 2011, 06:49:06 pm
make: up block, when a spear trust at the head...
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Everkistus on January 12, 2011, 07:04:57 pm
Increasing thrust speed would be a good idea.
I agree on this. The polearm slow is damn slow compared to twohanders lolstab.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Vygar on January 12, 2011, 10:21:35 pm
I would remove the upward hit and make it a thrust to the face.

Is this even possible in the engine?  I'd LOVE to see spears able to strike in the same four directions as other weapons but as a thrust instead of a slash/swing.  This change alone would be perfect without changes to the stats.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Kophka on January 13, 2011, 02:04:46 am
Spears have been broken since the original Warband Beta, over a year ago. The only attack they get with a shield is thrust, and you can counter infinite thrusts with one downblock, forever. Not only that, but when used with a shield, notice the huge delay when you strike someone, before your animation completes. Spear thrusts that do not strike flesh get "hung up" while the animation tries to complete the full thrust, even though the forward motion of the spear has stopped. This is against the swinging weapons that get a "bounce effect" when their strike is blocked. They recover rapidly, able to launch a second strike almost before the blocked animation has completed. Pair all of this with a ridiculously tiny "sweet spot" of about the last 1/8 of the animation, and you get a weapon meant for expert players only. Kudos to y'all that are good with them, you've earned some recognition.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: balbaroth on January 13, 2011, 02:36:22 am
Spears have been broken since the original Warband Beta, over a year ago. The only attack they get with a shield is thrust, and you can counter infinite thrusts with one downblock, forever. Not only that, but when used with a shield, notice the huge delay when you strike someone, before your animation completes. Spear thrusts that do not strike flesh get "hung up" while the animation tries to complete the full thrust, even though the forward motion of the spear has stopped. This is against the swinging weapons that get a "bounce effect" when their strike is blocked. They recover rapidly, able to launch a second strike almost before the blocked animation has completed. Pair all of this with a ridiculously tiny "sweet spot" of about the last 1/8 of the animation, and you get a weapon meant for expert players only. Kudos to y'all that are good with them, you've earned some recognition.

waltf4 and deafeningflood are 2 names i would put as spears experts
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Mak33 on January 13, 2011, 02:46:14 am
Agreed with all... thrust speed and recovery speed needs to be increased, and it's sad that a simple downblock can block any thrust from a polearm. 
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Mutant on January 13, 2011, 04:59:35 am
It is sad that any shield block can block every attack. Make new animations for everything now.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Keltesh on January 13, 2011, 05:29:47 am
Yes, spears a gimp atm......I use a German Poleaxe, it has 29 thrust damage.....thats better then a War spear.  I know there is a price difference, but unless you are using a shield there is almost no reason to use a spear over a poleaxe of some sort.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Seawied on January 13, 2011, 06:16:36 am
you guys have never seen the ATS guys with those spears. I used to laugh at people who would use spear/shield, but they made it work. It just requires different tactics than other weapons. Its not a 1 on 1 weapon.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: bredeus on January 13, 2011, 10:07:34 am
at least not with a shield but 2 or more ppl can make a difference :)
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: AvengerC47 on January 13, 2011, 10:55:35 am
Is this even possible in the engine?  I'd LOVE to see spears able to strike in the same four directions as other weapons but as a thrust instead of a slash/swing.  This change alone would be perfect without changes to the stats.

its just a change of animation of the upward hit by a high thrust, nothing more
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Spawny on January 13, 2011, 12:11:39 pm
Find a buddy, stick with him. Preferably someone with a barmace or the like.

He overhead attacks and you stab at the guy at the same time. Good luck blocking those.

It's not a 1v1 setup, it's a support role. Eventhough some people are very good with just a warspear or an awlpike, their main use is poking people who are fighting someone else.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Joker86 on January 13, 2011, 12:47:44 pm
Right. And this works perfectly. You can amass a lot of kills this way, although it is a bit of kill stealing  :?
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Vygar on January 13, 2011, 01:19:35 pm
Find a buddy, stick with him. Preferably someone with a barmace or the like.

He overhead attacks and you stab at the guy at the same time. Good luck blocking those.

It's not a 1v1 setup, it's a support role. Eventhough some people are very good with just a warspear or an awlpike, their main use is poking people who are fighting someone else.

While this is viable (and I find myself trying to work with the other players; it is a team oriented mod after all).  My complaint about spear thrust attacks is that they don't lend well to the weapon functioning on par with the other selections.  I find it a bit absurd that a pike attack can be instantly deflected simply by holding your lower block with 100% success. 
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: bredeus on January 13, 2011, 01:26:22 pm
Right. And this works perfectly. You can amass a lot of kills this way, although it is a bit of kill stealing  :?
It's a supporter role to support attack, if a hit will kill the enemy, it's a bonus but all the fun is to help teammates imho. Nobody called me a kill stealler so far :)
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: EponiCo on January 13, 2011, 06:42:31 pm
Rofl, Joker, _TPs don't talk of killstealing.
Sometimes you poke one, and he's dead, sometimes you poke and he's interrupted and the ally kills him.
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Vygar on January 13, 2011, 08:45:11 pm
I think my favorite solution you guys had mentioned so far would be to change the animation and give the spear 2 or more thrusting attack directions at least when used in one hand. 
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: Joker86 on January 14, 2011, 12:17:32 am
Rofl, Joker, _TPs don't talk of killstealing.
Sometimes you poke one, and he's dead, sometimes you poke and he's interrupted and the ally kills him.

That's the way it is, you are right.

I feel it's a bit... well... unfair. The guys in front of you risk their skin fighting the enemy, while I stay back in safety, but however have the same chance of killing him.

On the other hand I am pretty screwed in 1 on 1 against any  more or less capable fighter if only using a spear/pike. But as I can always switch to another weapon, and I do so, this is no excuse for me.

So please forgive me if I have a bad feeling when killing people from the second row. On the other hand I would also have a bad feeling if I decided to not participate, because if my teammate gets killed then I would have a bad conscience, too. Difficult.  :?
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: DrKronic on January 14, 2011, 12:31:40 am
Spear. And shield gives the ranged defence of a shield plus a good ranged thrust with good pierce

In a 2 on 2 sit u will see the advantages

It should be weak in 1 v 1

U realize u should drop the blockcrutch err I mean shield and fight without it in a 1v1

Good thing as a polearm u have that versatile option, two hand doesn't

Unless I split wpf and end up sucking at both

Learn to do more than thrust this isn't ancient greece
Title: Re: Spear Thrust - Too easily blocked
Post by: RandomDude on January 14, 2011, 03:59:37 am
id take an awlpike over a 2h wep for spammable thrust anyday

im still 1-2 hit in gothic plate by those things

obv it lacks in side swings