cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Heroin on January 12, 2011, 03:39:38 pm
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I think xbows have been overnerfed in this latest patch. Overall, the siege(sniper) crossbow lost 30% of it's total damage from pre-patch, AND was made to cost about 18k. I understand if you're doing this to dissuade "part-time xbowmen", but it really screws dedicated xbowmen over as well.
It would be great if instead of nerfing items globally, the staff could come up with a more imaginative way of limiting use. For instance, how about adding a wpf requirement to xbows to use them, and un-nerf them slightly?
Alternatively, adding a skill requirement like PD for xbows would be acceptable, if it allowed xbows to not suck any more.
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wpf requirement probably wouldn't solve much. It would limit people who carry crossbow just for the lulz, but the wpf difference between dedicated xbowmen and xbow hybrid is very small because of the diminishing returns (112v130 maybe).
Seige crossbow is not weak now in general, but considering its price and slow reload speed, it's pathetic. Even the hunting crossbow is not that much weaker (not considering the shot speed and accuracy it's half the damage, twice the reload speed) and the $$ (upkeep) difference is just huge. I agree with Heroin, that it should be fixed. I don't see why most (all?) other classes are able to afford to bring their best weapon every round and xbowmen aren't.
The only solution I could think of to limit it as Heroin suggested would be to make it work more like archery and throwing (have a Power skill for it).
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Yeah, I wouldn't be opposed to that, either. If you don't mind, I'm going to add that as an alternative idea to my OP.
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Alternatively, adding a skill requirement like PD for xbows would be acceptable, if it allowed xbows to not suck any more.
Agreed
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I think a lower cost with the same damage would work well.
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Ok, so I see there have been some votes "No" bringing the tally to 50-50. Would any of you care to elaborate, or did you just vote "No" out of xbow hate?
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I always was with the opinion for xbows to have a req it's stupid that every melee has a xbow with no investment (I know few does but many don't).
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Power Draw for xbows is a good idea, should of been done ages ago tho :?
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70 damage... yeah, it sucks. On the other hand, anything which dissuades ranged spammers is good in my book.
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Not to boast or anything but I really don't see that many successful crossbow hybrids other than myself and mayber 4-5 other people.
I have 147 wpf in xbow currently and I must say I don't miss many shots but the thing is I have to hit a person 3 times to kill them if they have any armor over 10k.
The reason I am posting here is because of what happened today, a leecher was running across a birdge and I hit him in his shoulder, HE WAS NAKED, and tanked it...I don't care what level he was he should have died.
The reason I used crossbow in the first place was because of its high damage, accuracy didn't really influence my choice pre-patch. 30% less damage is a real pain in the ass.
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Alternatively, adding a skill requirement like PD for xbows would be acceptable, if it allowed xbows to not suck any more.
No thanks. If I have to choose between putting points into a skill for crossbows or putting points in for archery I'd go with archery every time. Unless of course the skill gives a significant shot speed and damage boost. Of course the whole point of crossbows though is that it doesn't take much training to be decent with them but a dedicated archer is better in most cases.
As far as the current damage goes. With 135 wpf and a masterwork siege crossbow I can down some stationary people with a chest shot. Those that survive are often severely wounded.
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Just as a note even if powerdraw is done you realize that would make Xbows unstoppable right? Who else was aware that xbows penetrate shields? Any one? No one? Does any one even vaguely remember just getting blasted in the chest by my character kerin grahm through their huscarls? all I can say is they just simply should buff the damage a bit and leave it at that xbow man is the perfect hybrid for archery/melee because you don't need to invest skillpoints so instead of powerdraw you can nab up some power swing. and whether people believe wpf helps xbows or not I know it helps them I reload my seige xbow twice as fast as my alt with 0 wpf and that is a huge difference.
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Well, I thought crossbows were buffed because now they actually can aim and reload faster with WPF.
I see what you're saying, but I think you still need WPF to be accurate with one. I think crossbows need a little more damage, though.
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I agree that xbows need more punch its a midrange to close range weapon but it was almost the onlything that could penetrate platearmour at short range.
so its in need of a big bost in damage.
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Every one only thinks of the
sniper siege xbow when they talk about xbows what about all the other ones? the ones that DON"T penetrate shit, the ones that suck so much more ass now that they nerfed the damage and hiked up the price, 7k for 50 damage is retarded it takes like 5-6 shots for me to kill a mid armor fully healthalized person.
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please add time based recoil to crossbows ...
not unlimited aim time w/o any recoil spread
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please add time based recoil to crossbows ...
not unlimited aim time w/o any recoil spread
that doesn't make any sense though... I know adding a Power skill for crossbows is probably not realistic but it's one of the few ways to make crossbows cool without everyone being able to use them.
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that must be the most stupid ide ever it would be so unrealistic the thing is you get unlimited but you can't move and reload and it takes more time vs the archer ho can shoot up hes arrows in 2min wery bad idea
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Tolak speak english when u post on the forums lol.
The reason the xbow does have a recoil spread effect is because it is on a trigger. You pull back the string to a certain point and that point holds the string and bolt back and when u pull the trigger it moves/drops the thing holding the string under tension, firing the bolt.
Unlike the bow it is held back by the pure strength of a player, so really no power shot is neeeded for an xbow because the only stength being used by an xbow player is that to pull back the bow string to the fixed point, not to hold it there.
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I get what Dwarden is saying - it's heavy, you can't hold a steady aim indefinitely. On the other hand, ingame you can't rest it on a wall, etc, etc - like you normally can, and would. So it doesn't make sense, ingame.
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PD skill have been talked about over and over and over and quite frankly, I really doubt it would ever work. Just look at what happened with bows a couple of patches back. A WPF req would do nothing really, and make no sense ingame either. Why even risk the upkeep for a weapon you can't use. And if you have the reqs you are probably gonna use it anyway.
Nah, if anything, something new and imaginative as you suggested, would be the way to go. Maybe it's time to think harder? (Those two things you suggested have been discussed in months.)
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fail :>
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The problem with the idea of adding a PD requirement to xbows (for whomever brought that up) is that xbows are in every way sub-par compared to bows. The only redeeming value of them is that they require less investment, but you also get less return. I have an xbowman (Phael - 1h@110 wpf, xbow @120 wpf) and other than the lulz factor I'm rolling up a thrower instead. The reload rate for xbows is far too long (I use a regular crossbow, the one in the direct middle) for the damage output, even with a hefty wpf investment. If I'm going to spend skill point on PD for a ranged weapon a bow is a far greater return for the investment, or throwing for that matter.
With the reload speed the way it is, and the damage nerf combined they really perform rather lackluster as a dedicated weapon build. It's more a weapon (still) for someone without any investment to pick up and use as an emergency shotgun. Siege I can shoot a few bolts, but in battle servers I may get off 3-4 shots and then it's melee time as the teams collide en-masse. Before it was ok, because at least you knew that that bolt would drop the person if you hit. Now I can put 2-3 bolts into someones body before I drop em with the siege xbow. The regular xbow takes another shot to drop people.
Just my thoughts on that idea about PD anyways for whatever it's worth.
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How about an xbow skill that increases reload speed instead of damage/accuracy? That'd be neat.
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That's pretty much exactly what the wpf does...
Making the wpf do more [faster+more accurate], and keeping the lowered damage [perhaps a little higher than now], and lowering the overall cost seems like a decent way. Realistically, there weren't "dedicated", "expert" crossbowman in the sameway there was archers and swordsmen, the weapon was MADE for unskilled fighters or as a backup, which is what it should be in the game. If you want a ranged character, make an archer, if you want something to take out that pesky unarmored archer or HA, then buy a crossbow for back up.
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Just remove 2h weapons and shields that are carried along with a crossbow, like you do with ladders of the defending team in siege mode. Or make crossbows and 2h weapons and shields occupy 2 slots, so that it's impossible to bring along cb, bolts and 2h or shield. This would also remove the shield + 3x throwing weapon guys.
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Considering Crossbows are the only ranged weapon that can be used with NO skills other than WPF, they can be aimed for an indefinite period of time, and they still do more damage than archers, I don't see the problem.
I have 122 Xbow proficiency on my main, I use the heavy crossbow with steel bolts... I have NO problems getting kills... In fact I get WAY more kills than on my dedicated archer character.
As far as the Siege(Sniper) Crossbow goes, yeah it got a huge nerf, but so did the Flamberge, So did the lolaxe. These high tier weapons now take a special kind of patience and skill to use, and they are not necessarily "better" than their less costly counterparts, just different. Slow, but powerful - not too powerful, but still very strong. I like the change.
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Considering Crossbows are the only ranged weapon that can be used with NO skills other than WPF, they can be aimed for an indefinite period of time, and they still do more damage than archers, I don't see the problem.
The problem is the cost is too damn high for the output you get. Long reload time + having to actually hit some one 3-4 times before they die means you get a lot of assists not kills. Only kills I get is some one whos running around with low health and all I did then is just put them in the ground before some one else. Do more damage than archers? dps wise this just isn't true. With wpf our aim is little better than throwers, we have around the same damage as throwers discountign their boost with PT, we have around the same range (xbows a little bit farther albeit you won't hit anything that far away) and a much slower attack speed, so why should we invest any points into this dumb wep.
DPS wise xbows are a joke, and I'm ok with that as long as the price reflects this which they currently do not. Historically xbows were used so much because of they were eays to use (we have this 0wpf and still usuable) and they were cheap! Why can't we have some really good expensive xbows and then some cheap ass ones that every one can use that does little bits of damage? I'm more concerned with how these prices will effect strategus then crpg. My xbow build won't have any xbows to use if we would have to pay 7k per 100 regular xbows.