cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Gontanius on June 06, 2011, 08:55:48 am

Title: Riding knight
Post by: Gontanius on June 06, 2011, 08:55:48 am
Hello.

I was planing on making (as topic tells) a riding knight whit lance, shield and spear on foot. How should I place stats?
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: NuberT on June 06, 2011, 10:14:49 am
I suggest this, because its also viable on foot.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Gontanius on June 06, 2011, 10:23:42 am
Why the atletics?

I were thinking of putting it on shield instead. Just in case I land on ground and live, I dont care if it take me ages to walk around. but I would like to live
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Torben on June 06, 2011, 10:35:49 am
athletics makes you more agile on foot,  faster direction changes i.e.  dodging,  faster movement for attacks.  athl is one of the more important skills if u want to be somewhat usefull on foot.

im dedicated cav however i always choose the most athl i can get.

imagine beeing dehorsed into a bulk of archers.  let the slaying begin : )
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Gontanius on June 06, 2011, 10:39:53 am
Ah... I see :) thanks!
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Gontanius on June 06, 2011, 10:44:10 am
One last thing, what weapons is to pref?
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Torben on June 06, 2011, 11:00:36 am
that is all personal preference.

imo:  the heavy lance is great,  the normal lance not worth it and the light lance or read tassle spear are quite dangerous on highly manurverable horses,  where the tassle has the shortcomming of less length,  is however sheathable and incredibly fast.

try things out.

also,  u should give manual blocking a shot and go out there without a shield,  which allows you to bring an axe or blade with youre cav weapon.

last but not least:  mounted swordsman.  very good choice aswell.  consider it.

as a first build u could go with 100wpf pole for lance and 140 for 1h and become a hybrid lancer/shielder.  could give u a nice overview of where u wanna head if u ever wanna specialize
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Gontanius on June 06, 2011, 11:04:41 am
Ah thanks. Well not the first build. got archer and heavy maul. The down side whit blocking is I always manage to get wrong block though I drag in the right direction so I kind of just droped it
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: tankmen on June 06, 2011, 11:12:06 am
i go

Str:21
Agi:15
1h:130
Polearm:85
crossbow:2

IF:7
PS:7
Shield:5
riding:5
WM:5


slow as shit off a horse but feeling like a true knight
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Phazey on June 06, 2011, 12:07:48 pm
Listen to Torben. Go high athletics so you don't gimp yourself on foot. Not every map is cav friendly and your horse dies a lot.
Unless you wanna roleplay a cripple or something.  :lol:
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Thovex on June 06, 2011, 12:14:24 pm
True that, I tried a horseman without athletics and it was terrible, now I have got 5 athletics so I can actually fight on foot.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Kafein on June 06, 2011, 12:18:09 pm
Listen to Torben. Go high athletics so you don't gimp yourself on foot. Not every map is cav friendly and your horse dies a lot.
Unless you wanna roleplay a cripple or something.  :lol:


I got strong presumptions that athletics won't help you being more agile on foot. Instead, it just increases your max running speed, which is needed for a foot soldier, but not so much for a cav, since it doesn't really help you in intense fights on foot, and you can use all those skill points elsewhere. It's agility that governs your acceleration and turning speed.


So my advice is to put points in ath only if you have a str build.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: krampe on June 06, 2011, 12:24:39 pm
Refering to Walt's testing:

Agility and Athletics gives you acceleration, not top speed.
3 Agility has the same effect than 1 Athletics.

Athletics is one of the most important skills in my opionion, even before power strike.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Torp on June 06, 2011, 12:30:55 pm
go 18/18 or 21/15 with maxed riding, ps, wm and athletics, 3-4 points in shield and rest in if.

Then you can put 140 points in polearm and put 60 or something in 1h, which allows you to be 1h/shield on foot.

people say 1h sucks with only 60 wpf; it doesnt. I have killed 5+ enemies lots of times after getting dismounted.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: v/onMega on June 06, 2011, 12:31:37 pm
Refering to Walt's testing:

Agility and Athletics gives you acceleration, not top speed.
3 Agility has the same effect than 1 Athletics.

Athletics is one of the most important skills in my opionion, even before power strike.

So damm true.
I recommend listening to Nubert,Torben, krampe and all the others suggestions.

5Athletics is the absolut minimum to have fun on foot.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: NuberT on June 06, 2011, 12:44:43 pm
shieldskill isnt that important in my opinion. Usually my horse dies long before my difficulty 1 shield cracks. On the other hand you will hardly find another difficulty 1 shield on the ground.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Toffi on June 06, 2011, 01:05:17 pm
As for the lance: Torben said heavy lance for the win, normal lance isn't worth it. I don't garee on that. If you don't want to fight other cavalry primary I suggest using the normal lance, it's way faster!

AS for the builds:

I used to go without athletics for a long time cause I was proud of having a horse and not moving on foot.

Now I decided to have at least 3 athletics.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Torp on June 06, 2011, 01:16:48 pm
shieldskill isnt that important in my opinion. Usually my horse dies long before my difficulty 1 shield cracks. On the other hand you will hardly find another difficulty 1 shield on the ground.

but i also suggested a 1h sidearm, which isnt very good with only 1 shield skill :D

i personally have 4 since i preferred an extra shield skill over if
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Torben on June 06, 2011, 02:53:56 pm
As for the lance: Torben said heavy lance for the win, normal lance isn't worth it. I don't garee on that. If you don't want to fight other cavalry primary I suggest using the normal lance, it's way faster!

AS for the builds:

I used to go without athletics for a long time cause I was proud of having a horse and not moving on foot.

Now I decided to have at least 3 athletics.

im thinking "not worth it"  cause the lance is only 5 longer than the light lance,  the light lance however way faster and less expensive.  thoughts on that toffi?
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Toffi on June 06, 2011, 03:19:09 pm
im thinking "not worth it"  cause the lance is only 5 longer than the light lance,  the light lance however way faster and less expensive.  thoughts on that toffi?

Hm I tried the light lance too, but for me it happened too often that cause of maybe the shorter range (and it seems way shorter, even if it's only 5 cm) I just bounced of the enemy.

So light lance is, from my experiences and in my opinion, the worst lance. Might be that it's my timing (which is made for normal or heavy lance).

Well but you can for sure try the light lance, too. Maybe you try all of them! :D
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Digglez on June 06, 2011, 06:57:50 pm
if you plan on wearing heavy armor, I would not split your weapon skill, or you'll be too watered down in either.  I did a 140 1h/80 polearm and my nordic champ sword was doing more dmg from horseback than a lance, while I'm wearing MAIL armor.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: tankmen on June 07, 2011, 10:44:36 am
0 athletics for 22 gens  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Johnny_Concrete on June 07, 2011, 02:57:03 pm
THIS:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 63

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 6
    Athletics: 6
    Riding: 6
    Weapon Master: 6

    Polearm: 156
   
BECAUSE:
-Pure out performs hybrid in most cases.
-You will find you will hate your shield as on foot with a spear it is useless because of the penalty and it rarely saves you on your horse as people aim for the horse and your lance will just be slower if you pair it with a shield.
-So the 5 in IF will help you survive longer usually.
-There you have good riding skill so you will be fast and manoverable.
-Good weapon prof & weapon master & powerstrike so you are very effective with polearms
-and like everyone else says athletics is very important & quite alot of the time you may want to go out on foot as to save/make money(horses are alot to repair)

EQUIPMENT:
I reccommend a Heavy Lance on horseback, A Courser as your horse, Medium armor, and a side weapon such as hafted blade or quarter staff so they are cheap but rip up on the ground.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Bjord on June 07, 2011, 03:04:14 pm
Athletics is one of the most important skills in my opionion, even before power strike.

True for people who are bad at range control.

However, the less athletics and agility you have, the more defensive you'll have to be.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: krampe on June 07, 2011, 04:14:46 pm
True for people who are bad at range control.

However, the less athletics and agility you have, the more defensive you'll have to be.

Ehh? When your opponent moves faster than you, you don't control the distance.

True
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Bjord on June 07, 2011, 04:24:29 pm
Ehh? When your opponent moves faster than you, you don't control the distance.

True

Then you haven't fought people who excel at controlling the distance with good knowledge of their weapon's length. That's what range control means.

Being more maneuverable only grants a few more angles and positions where you can attack from and where an opponent with much less athletics can't. But that's beside the point.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: krampe on June 07, 2011, 04:35:36 pm
I still don't get your point how having high athletics is less important when you have good range control?

You can be the master in range control which will be useless if your enemy moves in and out only when he wants to strike.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Bjord on June 07, 2011, 04:51:47 pm
I still don't get your point how having high athletics is less important when you have good range control?

It doesn't matter how fast he moves, if you can time your swings in a way that he runs into them as he moves closer to hit you, you will still prevail.

You can be the master in range control which will be useless if your enemy moves in and out only when he wants to strike.

I fail to see how that's relevant, but I suppose. Though, at some point he will have to move closer to connect hits. Also, I doubt people would enjoy fighting someone like that.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: krampe on June 07, 2011, 05:27:03 pm
It doesn't matter how fast he moves, if you can time your swings in a way that he runs into them as he moves closer to hit you, you will still prevail.

Yes, good timing and range control are important aspects in fighting but still how do those make high athletics less important?
(dodging missiles, choosing fights, prevent surrounds by multiple enemies, etc.)

I fail to see how that's relevant, but I suppose. Though, at some point he will have to move closer to connect hits. Also, I doubt people would enjoy fighting someone like that.

It's relevant in that case when two equal "range controler" fight each other, one has high athletics one does not.
The one with high athletics will be more in control when to strike as the other especially if he has the longer weapon.
He also can bring himself in the right position more quickly to let his strike hit earlier as you already mentioned.
Title: Re: Riding knight
Post by: Bjord on June 07, 2011, 05:29:37 pm
Yes, good timing and range control are important aspects in fighting but still how do those make high athletics less important?
(dodging missiles, choosing fights, prevent surrounds by multiple enemies, etc.)

It's relevant in that case when two equal "range controler" fight each other, one has high athletics one does not.
The one with high athletics will be more in control when to strike as the other especially if he has the longer weapon.
He also can bring himself in the right position more quickly to let his strike hit earlier as you already mentioned.

Ah, I see.

Suffice it to say, I forgot to mention I was talking in duel perspectives the whole time.

But yes, athletics is highly useful in any case.