cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Penitent on June 14, 2017, 05:48:07 pm

Title: Keeping New Players
Post by: Penitent on June 14, 2017, 05:48:07 pm
Hesky has stumbled upon and highlighted some very useful information that presents us with an extraordinary opportunity: How to make CRPG great again.

The time has arrived already for CRPGs revival -- we are in the midst of it.  As we stand today, the mod lives again with regular server population and nice battles.  We can be content and ride the wave until it peters out once again upon the shores of time -- or we can add to it's momentum and see how far it takes us!

New CRPG accounts are being created daily.  Yes, every day new people are creating at least a few new CRPG accounts.  Every day has a handful of new players with enough interest to check out the game.  If we can encourage even just a few to stick around long enough to realize what an amazing mod this is, it will be greatly worth our while.

In this thread we can brainstorm ideas or find solutions to old problems to help in this effort.

Quote
65 people downloaded the bugged launcher from moddb over the past 3 days

How can this be remedied, for example?

We already have great noob topics and guides on the forum (though many are outdated) and we have clans willing and able to accept new members.  What else can be done to help the new player stick around for even just a few extra days until they can appreciate the depth of fun the game can offer?

Maybe a stickied thread for new players to introduce themselves?  What else can you think of?  There are no dumb suggestions except for the dumb ones.

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Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Asheram on June 14, 2017, 05:50:01 pm
Chain them up in your basement with a computer that can only run crpg.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Algarn on June 14, 2017, 05:51:59 pm
Softening up the grind would be a good start, rewamping the starting heirloom system (you get points you're able to relocate every month perhaps, but won't leave your account, instead of 4 mediocre MWs), and giving them 50k would be a nice start.
I say multiply the gold and XP gain by two, and reward assists (dunno if you can code it on warband, I think so), as well as kills, or reduce the XP curve so it doesn't takes that long to get into the game.


Why would I advocate for that ? Because I gave away my looms and retired my lvl 37 juggernaut-killer, and for a month, I tried to get back, and even with a gen 8 character, the grind is huge. I probably will never get back to 12 +3s by myself.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Penitent on June 14, 2017, 05:57:52 pm
Quote from: Algarn on June 14, 2017, 05:51:59 pm
Softening up the grind would be a good start, rewamping the starting heirloom system (you get points you're able to relocate every month perhaps, but won't leave your account, instead of 4 mediocre MWs), and giving them 50k would be a nice start.

Starter packages and grind changes may help -- but I don't think they will help that much.  A new (brand new) person will get flattened oh so easily over and over again until they get sufficient practice and skills...no matter what their equipment or level.

How about a noob training event held every once in a while to show new guys the ropes?
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 14, 2017, 05:58:21 pm
I think it comes down to the balance of the game, its not fun for new players to come here and use really shitty versions of things in native.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Penitent on June 14, 2017, 06:16:53 pm
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on June 14, 2017, 06:07:01 pm
2. The peasant-to-hero journey is a unique selling point of the game, it's the RPG element that you build your own character.

I completely agree with this -- it's what got me into the game years ago.

New players don't know if the grind is fast, slow, or just right.  They have no idea what the weapon/class balance is like.  They just log in to play for 35 minutes and see if they like the game.

In fact, I may start doing a peasant training camp on Wednesday nights or something and see if any new players will join and get the basic/intermediate skills down to enjoy the combat.  I think a little hand-holding and community involvement is the ticket to get them to stick around for that first week (and then get hooked, heh heh heh).

Is the NA Duel server still up, or can it be brought up for such a purpose?
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Yuang on June 14, 2017, 06:40:50 pm
It's not advisable to completely delete data, and even new players will think CRPG is an unreliable game. Old players may be disappointed and lose interest. The best way is to reduce the difficulty of entry.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 14, 2017, 06:44:46 pm
Peasant to hero journey is definitely what originally caught me. Im sure im not the only one who got in at the very early stages and really enjoying the moment you could afford a single piece of new armor or weaponry.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: njames89 on June 14, 2017, 06:53:00 pm
If we are talking about people getting annihilated and quitting starting them at level 1 does not help. Starting them at lvl 34 would allow them to get a feel for the game and when they retire at lvl 35 they would get the full experience of peasantry anyways.

I'm not sure how you can advocate a wipe to help new players and simultaneously want them to start at lvl 1 lol. Peasants get punched and kicked to death.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Yeldur on June 14, 2017, 06:55:11 pm
I think the grind will be the main cause of newbies leaving, when I jump into a game I don't generally want to grind for hours and hours and hours so that I can then play on a level playing field with other people (Although I will say in C-RPG's case I did actually enjoy it) - I'd much rather just jump in and start hacking and slashing, which is what you can do on M&B multiplayer in native and on mercs, the levelling system does separate us yes, but we have to think of whether it's alienating the new players or making them like the game more.

Might be a good idea to set up a newbie sort of area where they can voice their concerns, also, talking to the new players in game and getting them to pop onto the forums here is a great idea to get them involved in the community, we should definitely be doing that. The forum isn't the easiest place to find.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Casul on June 14, 2017, 06:59:01 pm
main problem is the average high skill level compared to....well, any other mod and native

A low tier player in cRPG has easy play to go topscore in native.

It wont change a lot if you simply wipe everything, players might be more attracted because they might be able to compete then, but a lot of players wont be attracted to come back if they see all their grinded stuff deleted.

Would probably still say yes on a wipe because we dont need that kind of tryhard qq scum in cRPG anyway.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Bronto on June 14, 2017, 07:05:59 pm
The grind, the grind, the grind. I remember being stoked to hit level 30 the first time, then realizing I had to play the same length of time it took me to get from 1 to 30 all over again just so I could retire. I stuck with it, whiskey helped, but that was back in 2011 when there were a lot of players that kept me interested. Now I load up a character, stare at how far I have to go, play two rounds and quit. I'm fucking gen 47 on my main and I don't even want to do it, let alone some newbie who is worse than I am and I'm the best of the bads really.

Originally the concept of making my own character is what got me to keep grinding, that and internet friends. Now though, the face of multiplayer games has changed and we either need to change with it, or let this die it's final death. What I mean is, reevaluate how important it is to force someone to level their character on a 10 to 20 man server for 8.4 million xp. The majority of you don't want to give up your looms or levels you've earned and I can understand that, but by having everything, or in a clan that has hundreds of +3 items at your disposal, or knowing it'll take a casual gamer a minimum of 2 weeks to retire (just an estimate) there isn't any reason to keep you in the game anymore.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Jona on June 14, 2017, 07:08:34 pm
Something as simple as a "welcome to crpg message" that pops up when they first log into the website or in-game that details all the less-obvious mechanics would do a lot imo. Point out that while they may not like the grind, they can simply make a skip the fun character and enjoy high-level benefits immediately until they see for themselves what they're missing out on. A website-based tutorial could really help if it walks them through all their options, i.e. respecs, converting skill/attribute points, looms, stf characters and alts, gen bonuses, and if it points them in the direction of the forums/useful beginner guides for any other less-than-obvious things that'd help too. I for one never knew I could change skill points to attribute points for a while, and therefore dumped my useless points into shield despite being a 2h hero my first few gens, reaching level 30 with an incomplete 15-23 build.

I've said this elsewhere (cba to quote the post atm), but I think that having an xp bonus for a new account's first few gens would help more than starting at a high level/starting with looms. Let them grind it out (albeit relatively quickly) to get their first loom, that way it feels earned and yet isn't as large an investment as it was for most of us. If you get a starter kit that gives you some free looms, no matter if they're weapons you'd use or not, you feel no attachment to them as everyone got the same package. Deciding to spend your hard-earned points on your very own weapon was a magical feeling the first time around.

Quote from: Cassi on June 14, 2017, 06:59:01 pm
a lot of players wont be attracted to come back if they see all their grinded stuff deleted.

Would probably still say yes on a wipe because we dont need that kind of tryhard qq scum in cRPG anyway.

As a non-tryhard qq scum, I'd rather keep my items and levels, as I'm not going to want to grind it out against all the tryhard qq scum that already got a fully-loomed set of gear within the first week after the wipe. In my experience, the tryhards are the ones that enjoy the grind, while the more casual players just want to have fun - something made easier by being high leveled already.


 
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Bronto on June 14, 2017, 07:10:37 pm
Skip the Fun. More like shit idea. #gottem

Again giving you an option to "Skip the fun" kills the new player as well. Why even bother with a new character when you can "Skip the fun" play as a higher level, never retire, join a clan, use their looms. No point in grinding, no point in staying.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Algarn on June 14, 2017, 07:46:58 pm
Quote from: Bronto on June 14, 2017, 07:10:37 pm
Again giving you an option to "Skip the fun" kills the new player as well. Why even bother with a new character when you can "Skip the fun" play as a higher level, never retire, join a clan, use their looms. No point in grinding, no point in staying.

^

Or the reason I was gen 8 on my main character after thousands of hours, and had less than 15 heirlooms on my entire account. Why would I retire when the merc armory had an obscene amount of gear ? Having the XP counter ticking up to the next level is a some kind of objective you naturally set yourself, removing that is basically shooting yourself in the foot, especially when everyone have 2 more levels than you do.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Penitent on June 14, 2017, 07:54:11 pm
Quote from: Jona on June 14, 2017, 07:08:34 pm
Something as simple as a "welcome to crpg message" that pops up when they first log into the website or in-game that details all the less-obvious mechanics would do a lot imo. Point out that while they may not like the grind, they can simply make a skip the fun character and enjoy high-level benefits immediately until they see for themselves what they're missing out on.

Jona has a great idea -- perhaps the most efficient in terms of time and effort.  The most bang for your buck, so to speak.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Suedehead on June 14, 2017, 08:10:08 pm
The biggest problem with newcomers is that they start playing before they know how cRPG works. Saw a lot of those back in the days of glory - dude downloads a mod and gets into it without knowing about a website even. And he can't understand wtf is this - why he in other team than he selected and was before? why there are no classes to select? Why he has so less and crap items, and is so weak compared to others around? How to get new gear? He tried to ask in chat, but most of the times,even while others doing their best to help, can't understands what he should do and why he should visit some site etc., so usually leaves and does not come back. I myself manage to understand all this from second attempt in months after failed first.
Make step-by-step video guide how to get into, and make it mandatory to watch before.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Mlekce on June 14, 2017, 08:25:57 pm
- remove looms
- starting lvl 30
- increase exp x2 for higher lvls and make a cap at lvl 35.

There is no way that newbie will want to grind from lvl 1 to lvl 30. No way, i didn`t want to do it in Nord Invasion.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Turkhammer on June 14, 2017, 10:33:30 pm
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on June 14, 2017, 09:03:48 pm
We did back when we were young and naive. Maybe some of the people downloading it do have the time and effort to grind a little.

I'm in favour of making grind easy, but you can't really call it cRPG without some form of leveling

The G doesn't stand for grind. ;)
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 14, 2017, 10:46:12 pm
The grind is the best part tho. Long term goals are the best way to keep people playing. Free handouts lose flavor quickly, and so kind of take away from the feeling of looms etc. Theres no competitive play almost at all, the game doesnt even feel fun to tryhard in at this point. Goofing around is only enjoyable for a short bit, but trying to get new looms and try out new weapons otherwise overlooked is still as interesting as it has always been.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Algarn on June 14, 2017, 11:00:17 pm
Too much of anything kills it. Grind is one of those things, especially when you consider it's only a mod from a game whose sequel is almost out.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: banned123 on June 14, 2017, 11:49:29 pm
The community is VERY hostile towards new players. Almost all of us are responsible for this in one way or another, but the bigotry from some people is the worst of it all. It alienates a TON of people when there are slurs every other sentence from edgelord people in chat.

There were also a bunch of people extremely mad that native players were playing yesterday on NA and spamming ban polls on them. Like what? The games dead for years and now you're mad it's getting players outside of the 20 familiar no lifers.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Bronto on June 15, 2017, 01:17:16 am
Yo man I've gotten tons of people to stick around once they started just by being a nice human being. Just ask my man sandersson jenkins or killjoy(RIP) and countless other newbs I've helped along the way.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: njames89 on June 15, 2017, 02:57:26 am
Quote from: Bronto on June 15, 2017, 01:17:16 am
Yo man I've gotten tons of people to stick around once they started just by being a nice human being. Just ask my man sandersson jenkins or killjoy(RIP) and countless other newbs I've helped along the way.

you are responsible for sandersson?

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Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Inglorious on June 15, 2017, 04:22:06 am
Quote from: Bronto on June 15, 2017, 01:17:16 am
Yo man I've gotten tons of people to stick around once they started just by being a nice human being. Just ask my man sandersson jenkins or killjoy(RIP) and countless other newbs I've helped along the way.

Like bronto said, I stuck around after I started just because people weren't absolute cancer (to start with). It got alot worse over the course of the next 4 years though.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: the real god emperor on June 15, 2017, 06:22:31 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on June 14, 2017, 10:46:12 pm
The grind is the best part tho. Long term goals are the best way to keep people playing. Free handouts lose flavor quickly, and so kind of take away from the feeling of looms etc. Theres no competitive play almost at all, the game doesnt even feel fun to tryhard in at this point. Goofing around is only enjoyable for a short bit, but trying to get new looms and try out new weapons otherwise overlooked is still as interesting as it has always been.

This. Apart from this and Strat, what difference does cRPG have from Mercs? -apart from merc being a shitty mod with a 10 yo avg community- nudges and nerfed kicks? Archers drawing their bows with an autistic animation? Pfft.

I won't write a pro-wipe text again, as community stated that they fancy their looms. Neither there is one or not, new players shouldnt be granted looms in the beginning. (at least less looms)However looming stuff must be scaled down to be easier to the point that it is not boring to grind. And they shouldnt jump in to level 38 meta, while level 30 end builds were MUCH more fun.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Asheram on June 15, 2017, 07:58:00 am
Quote from: Kratos on June 15, 2017, 06:22:31 am
This. Apart from this and Strat, what difference does cRPG have from Mercs? -apart from merc being a shitty mod with a 10 yo avg community- nudges and nerfed kicks? Archers drawing their bows with an autistic animation? Pfft.

I won't write a pro-wipe text again, as community stated that they fancy their looms. Neither there is one or not, new players shouldnt be granted looms in the beginning. (at least less looms)However looming stuff must be scaled down to be easier to the point that it is not boring to grind. And they shouldnt jump in to level 38 meta, while level 30 end builds were MUCH more fun.
WELL  for starters Mercs has only eu servers...
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: the real god emperor on June 15, 2017, 08:12:28 am
Quote from: Asheram on June 15, 2017, 07:58:00 am
WELL  for starters Mercs has only eu servers...

Yeah, it also has RU servers for some reason too. And EU servers are located in Netherlands. I should ve added that as well.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on June 15, 2017, 11:55:14 pm
Quote from: Bronto on June 15, 2017, 01:17:16 am
Yo man I've gotten tons of people to stick around once they started just by being a nice human being. Just ask my man sandersson jenkins or killjoy(RIP) and countless other newbs I've helped along the way.

ya i was on a weird sleep schedule and was playing mornings early as fuck with bronto, it was some shit map with a bridge and my team was getting shit on

i went up to the bridge you know, to like, square up with the bad guys or whatever and there was bronto protecting me from my old friendet ranged with a shield

he was only level 24, what a brave man i thought to myself, maybe i should talk to him

and here i am today, what would i have done without bronto? truly the rest is history
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Grytviken on June 16, 2017, 12:42:54 am
Not having access to account options like repecs/retiring, item shop and market in game was the biggest turn off to people I tried to introduce to the mod.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Yeldur on June 16, 2017, 01:15:56 am
If too much of a grind will remove players and no grind will bore them away, then the obvious thing to do is to hit a mid ground, have a grind, but have it be less of a grind. Make it feel like progress is being made relatively often. One thing that drove me away from levelling up my non STF character (Yeldur obviously) was the ridiculous grind from 30-35, it was slow and boring, and made me feel like no progress was happening. 35-37 was a whole other level but that's irrelevant in this particular case.

I gave up on it eventually and went onto my STF characters (Ladoea etc etc.) and now I actually enjoy playing them more than anything as I can play what I want when I want, if I want to play cav I just respec and do that, if I want to play infantry I respec and do that. (Or in this case I hop onto a different character as I have different characters for different things)

There shouldn't be a high level start out because that is what STF is there for, some people just want to hop in and beat shit up for a bit, then hop out. Skip the fun is an option that should be promoted to newer players which then gives them the option to choose between it, though, anyone in game telling them about the option should let them know of the downsides in that they can't level and can't retire to get loompoints and shit.

And as before, link the bloody players to the forum, if we get them here we can talk with them, ask them what they want. Talking to them is the best way to figure out what they like and want out of C-RPG and what would drive them away.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Bronto on June 16, 2017, 01:41:58 am
Quote from: Grytviken on June 16, 2017, 12:42:54 am
Not having access to account options like repecs/retiring, item shop and market in game was the biggest turn off to people I tried to introduce to the mod.

What a bunch of pussies. Did they not know about alt+tab....wankers...

And Sandy, i remember that exact day and moment. Board shield with the dudes rug. Good times brother!
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Panos_Tournament on June 16, 2017, 08:55:41 am
I did not read all  the posts, so sorry if someone suggested my suggestions before.


1. Give to all the new guys 15 nontradable/nonsellable loompoints, let them choose their own shit
2. When a new account registers its first character, set his level to be instantly at 30.

Now I know that there wont be any peasants/free kills, but as most veterans keep pointing out most of the new players leave c-rpg because the level/skill gap is huge, so when you give the new guy the opportunity to play with a character thats level 30 with a fully loomed set gear, you give him 2 option.

a) Never to retire because he already has enough loomed items to keep going, thus he will just care to improve his skill
b) Let him play with a high enough character for enough, until he feels ready to retire/grind again

3. Weekly or monthly free heirloom exchanges will make them stay, because they will want to try out new classes/builds

4. Fixing the banners

5. Making the map rotation great again, last I played c-rpg most of the maps were shitty and unbalanced, re add all of the native battle maps.

6. Happy hours with double xp and Happy weekends with triple xp will also help

7. Ban all the Turks because
a. its Constantinople not Istanbul
b. They smell
c. They are Turks.


Thank you for reading
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Horns_Archive on June 16, 2017, 04:16:36 pm
Quote from: Grytviken on June 16, 2017, 12:42:54 am
Not having access to account options like repecs/retiring, item shop and market in game was the biggest turn off to people I tried to introduce to the mod.

That will never happen. We would be playing MB3 before that would get done. Maybe bannerlord something like that can be done but we still don't have any info on modding for bannerlord soooo...
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: LiaoCao on June 19, 2017, 05:10:45 pm
1, wipe data
(old players almost have nothing to fight for)

2, return some money or heirloom points to our veterans as compensation.
(but we need a formula to calculate it.)

3, adjust the balance, make infantries great again.
(infantries move slow enough, they always stand together, so when they are fighting, the shape of formation is just like a chessboard waiting for you to make a tricky move. The feeling is great)

4, change the minimun retirement level, set it back to level 31. fix the double money and exp, it ruins the market.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: belda on June 19, 2017, 06:17:56 pm
Wipe data except the gens, It has taken us a long time to reach our gens. Talking about the gens. I could suggest removing the limit or putting it higher.

Bring back the old level system, at level 31 you can retire. The current system works well when there is a good player base, but there is not.


Crazy idea.
Unify & fix strategus. China, America and Europe together in a single map of calradia. Limit the allowed time of attack to balance the battles between continents and in these cases the battle takes place in the defender server. Example:  China clan vs Europe clan in EU_cRPG_3 | Europe clan vs China clan in CN_cRPG_3.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: Beleg on June 19, 2017, 11:08:25 pm
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on June 19, 2017, 10:26:37 pm

I really like the idea of unifying strategus. I've already proposed it for EU/NA but hadn't considered China, shame on me. Even if we did by some miracle get enough population for each map to have it's own playerbase, EU would just relive it's usual drama and nothing would change. Having all clans from all regions on the same map would be a real wildcard, and IMO could create the best strategus in 5 years.
China battles would be unplayable for the non-chinese though. Ping is simply too high.
Title: Re: Keeping New Players
Post by: banned123 on June 20, 2017, 02:37:49 am
Strategus 1 and 2 (sorta 3 also) were on the same map and it was far better. I understand Strategus is probably not the focus of the devs currently but it would also be great if some of the micromanagement and tedium of Strategus was reduced. One of the reasons the first few were more fun also was a lot of the mechanics were simpler and didn't require nearly as much attention being paid to the map. It was more focused on the actual battles than the weeks of boring stuff leading up to them.