Melee: Battlegrounds => General => Topic started by: Gaz.Spencer on December 30, 2015, 08:25:37 pm
Title: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 30, 2015, 08:25:37 pm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FPbTWDeqQf0
Sorry I couldn't insert the video for some reason :D
Medieval combat was not based so much around only sword fighting as other medieval games show, but rather it had lots shield bashing, pushing, shoving, kicking etc. In real medieval combat you can only engage one person at a time, any more and you were likely to die, in cRPG for example, a skilled player might be able to kill like 10 noobs with ease, but in real life, any ten people could easily over over power that person. I'm not sure how the combat could possibly look like that, but it would be cool. Maybe each person could select 3 special moves for their character eg kicking, shield bash, and shove. This is purely my opinion and I know many people will disagree, but to me it would be way better like that. Atleast with permadeath in battles on Epic, people are likely to be cautious, making in more tactical and strategic, not hack and slash everywhere. Maybe holding a key and then doing a directional attack could push the enemy in that direction, that way there's no general shove, but rather, each skill move is completely player controlled, unlike Warband, where a kick is just a kick.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Asheram on December 30, 2015, 09:48:00 pm
Sorry I couldn't insert the video for some reason :D
Medieval combat was not based so much around only sword fighting as other medieval games show, but rather it had lots shield bashing, pushing, shoving, kicking etc. In real medieval combat you can only engage one person at a time, any more and you were likely to die, in cRPG for example, a skilled player might be able to kill like 10 noobs with ease, but in real life, any ten people could easily over over power that person. I'm not sure how the combat could possibly look like that, but it would be cool. Maybe each person could select 3 special moves for their character eg kicking, shield bash, and shove. This is purely my opinion and I know many people will disagree, but to me it would be way better like that. Atleast with permadeath in battles on Epic, people are likely to be cautious, making in more tactical and strategic, not hack and slash everywhere. Maybe holding a key and then doing a directional attack could push the enemy in that direction, that way there's no general shove, but rather, each skill move is completely player controlled, unlike Warband, where a kick is just a kick.
Remove the s from https and use the the youtube icon in tools above message body, also use youtubes share link rather than url at top
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: pogosan on December 30, 2015, 10:28:37 pm
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Xant on December 30, 2015, 10:29:48 pm
How many of these people die? Yeah, there's your answer. Combat should not look like that.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 30, 2015, 10:30:35 pm
you have a point, but I was more thinking about how the fight looks more like a brawl, rather than fencing.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 30, 2015, 10:31:56 pm
I know what you guys are saying, but what I mean is that they don't only fight with swords and shields, they use their whole body
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Xant on December 30, 2015, 10:32:39 pm
Because it is a brawl, with no one having to fear death or trying to kill anyone, or even being capable of killing anyone. Why do you think the fighting in that video is closer to real combat than fencing, rather than as far away from real combat as fencing?
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 30, 2015, 10:37:27 pm
Because real medieval combat involved the use of the whole body, not just a fencing style fighting. I agree with you completely, and I'm just saying that combat in Melee should have more depth than just attacks and blocks. I also know that developers have already mentioned this, but I'm saying that the pushing, shoving, kicking should play a bigger part than it does in other games. I understand that the game won't be medieval combat simulator, but I would just like that extra depth.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Asheram on December 30, 2015, 11:05:21 pm
Gaz you do know you can push, shove and kick in crpg right? So bearing that in mind I am sure they will implement something similar in their new game.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Rebelyell on December 30, 2015, 11:14:54 pm
It is more like tournament/training methods, no stabby weapons, and weapon weight limit and many other aspects. On other side i can agree that it is closer to real fights than fencing but we had similar situations in crpg. Nowadays we have just to lite players to see that again.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 30, 2015, 11:50:11 pm
Because it looks absolutely ridiculous, and probably incredibly hard to implement in a way where it would be fun gameplay wise, and not just a clutter of wrestlers.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: BlackxBird on December 31, 2015, 12:36:23 am
[N]o
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Golem on December 31, 2015, 01:30:14 am
This isn't realistic at all. I want to see you throwing yourself willingly on the ground with at an opponent when you're sorrounded all around you by sharp metal object that are stabbed violently towards anything that draws breath. Sure, in a small skirmish with even numbers it might work. Also take note that the rules of these kind of engagements do not permit you to get on your feet once someone knocks you on your back. That's really stupid in my mind, it should be just like other martial arts. You either give up, they knock you out or you suffer an injury and can no longer compete. Imo the only reason so much takedownds are happening in there is because of the rules. That's why opponents have to be separated by a rope in this video:
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Xant on December 31, 2015, 03:04:31 am
Also, those weapons are crap. If poleaxes and spears and maces and halberds and swords were that bad at doing damage to full plate, every knight in history would have carried nothing but rondel daggers, since apparently you can just ignore every strike from longer weapons.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 31, 2015, 03:10:00 am
I didn't mean all of it was realistic, because it isn't. Just some elements as to how they also use a lot of shield bashing, shoving etc.
Ancient medieval battle depictions showed a close up fight, that did look a lot like a big brawl. I'm open to correction, and I don't mind whether Melee: Battlegrounds decides to make combat more like fencing, or a more brawl style. Of course there is a lack of use in weapons in the video because they can't kill people, and in real life weapons would be used far more.
Of course paintings may not be very true to how battles were, but I think they would have had a bit of a brawling style in them. Think about it, if you shoved somebody over, you could easily hold them down and kill them, that is if you don't have others attacking you.
I'm merely throwing some ideas around, and I'm not for or against anything.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 31, 2015, 03:12:17 am
Gaz you do know you can push, shove and kick in crpg right? So bearing that in mind I am sure they will implement something similar in their new game.
I did play it a bit but no I didn't :D. Sorry if I overlooked anything. Most of what I say is probably wrong, and I'm fine with that, I'm just getting some other opinions if that's ok.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 31, 2015, 03:47:05 am
Because it looks absolutely ridiculous, and probably incredibly hard to implement in a way where it would be fun gameplay wise, and not just a clutter of wrestlers.
You could hold down a key and then use your mouse to control the direction of the shove or kick.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Schoi on December 31, 2015, 03:55:28 am
Nice triple post nigkr
I completely disagree, fighting games are supposed to be energetic, and entertaining. This video showed fake combat, slow, and uninteresting to watch. While it may be more realistic than Warband, it is still slow, and boring. If you would like a more slowly paced realistic combat simulation game, perhaps the Total War series would suit you.
You want some realistic combat? Join the military. Kill someone in real life. Fight a black guy in the street by saying "you want to fight bro?"
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on December 31, 2015, 04:02:53 am
If u read what I said before you would understand what teatime not saying the game should look like that, I just said it would be nice if it was deeper than Warbands combat. I hate slow moving games, and I agree, if a game looked like that I wouldn't play it.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Asheram on December 31, 2015, 04:28:43 am
I completely disagree, fighting games are supposed to be energetic, and entertaining. This video showed fake combat, slow, and uninteresting to watch. While it may be more realistic than Warband, it is still slow, and boring. If you would like a more slowly paced realistic combat simulation game, perhaps the Total War series would suit you.
You want some realistic combat? Join the military. Kill someone in real life. Fight a black guy in the street by saying "you want to fight bro?"
"you want to fight bro?"
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Turkhammer on December 31, 2015, 04:43:40 am
Aww man I told them to keep it a secret from you! Obviously I can't entrust them anymore. It was fun pretending to be you, I beat a lot of people in duel while trying to feint like you and they were confused I won haha.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Golem on December 31, 2015, 10:42:02 am
I want powerstrike called Ottoman slap in Melee See the comments.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Mancom37 on December 31, 2015, 01:39:21 pm
I want powerstrike called Ottoman slap in Melee See the comments.
That brings an interesting question,should there be a skill to train unarmed combat?
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 31, 2015, 05:21:07 pm
Theres room for improved nudges and kicks of the crpg style, i would expect something like those atleast. Quite simple as they are, they were great additions when added.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Asheram on December 31, 2015, 08:33:39 pm
Aww man I told them to keep it a secret from you! Obviously I can't entrust them anymore. It was fun pretending to be you, I beat a lot of people in duel while trying to feint like you and they were confused I won haha.
I am sure they knew it wasn't me as soon as they saw that you could block and was good at the game.
I want powerstrike called Ottoman slap in Melee See the comments.
(click to show/hide)
I want the gauntlet punch to be called Super Bitch Slap in Melee
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on January 01, 2016, 05:12:01 am
We should be given freedom to do what we want. Ottoman slap sounds great
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Hellsing on January 03, 2016, 10:33:43 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on January 03, 2016, 11:08:20 pm
Lol I wasn't being sarcastic, players really should have comeplete choice for everything, even hand to hand combat variations.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: MacX85 on January 03, 2016, 11:42:34 pm
He was saying that you didn't get the sarcasm ^^
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Teeth on January 03, 2016, 11:54:44 pm
I still don't get why those guys bother with using the weapons. I'm sure it sucks to get hit with them, but grappling people to the floor is so much quicker. Most takedowns, and thus kills, seem to result from charges.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on January 05, 2016, 05:20:27 am
I suppose you hit people mostly to disorientate or confuse them, especially if it's a hit to the head.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Son Of Odin on January 05, 2016, 02:13:45 pm
So how isn't that exactly like good old crpg? 'muricans breaking the immersion and kurwa- people winning with any means necessary :lol:
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on January 05, 2016, 07:54:02 pm
I suppose it would be similar comparing Paintball with real combat. Very different in every way, except people playing paintball pretend they are "Real Soldiers"
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Hellsing on January 05, 2016, 09:13:25 pm
I suppose it would be similar comparing Paintball with real combat. Very different in every way, except people playing paintball pretend they are "Real Soldiers"
Well at least you shoot with guns at a target, once the target is full with paintball splatter ("blood") he's dead... This sticks to kind of the modern combat feeling, those who pretend they are "Real Soldiers" are bundle of trash like those who think they are "real kinghts". What u posted is something I would piss on. Those "players" trying to combine some medival gear with american football is total nonsense and melee: the game should defnitly go back to medival layout of combat style were you actually can rip someones bloody ugly face of his neck.
Not trying to do not harm the enemie at all costs like this crap. When you try to relate to this date i prefer this style of combat still more than your shown stuff
(click to show/hide)
even though this still isnt actually real this is at least a bit more brutal and realistic.. even if they just try to unarm each other they dont just group up and throw one down to the ground lulz
(also none of them are true swordsman with teachings in this vid, they are fighting like peasents (like everyone who has not worn a sword for a long time) so this actually is kinda realistic since most ppl in med age dont had the pleasure to get trained for years in the art of war)
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Gaz.Spencer on January 05, 2016, 11:55:34 pm
Well at least you shoot with guns at a target, once the target is full with paintball splatter ("blood") he's dead... This sticks to kind of the modern combat feeling, those who pretend they are "Real Soldiers" are bundle of trash like those who think they are "real kinghts". What u posted is something I would piss on. Those "players" trying to combine some medival gear with american football is total nonsense and melee: the game should defnitly go back to medival layout of combat style were you actually can rip someones bloody ugly face of his neck.
Not trying to do not harm the enemie at all costs like this crap. When you try to relate to this date i prefer this style of combat still more than your shown stuff
(click to show/hide)
even though this still isnt actually real this is at least a bit more brutal and realistic.. even if they just try to unarm each other they dont just group up and throw one down to the ground lulz
(also none of them are true swordsman with teachings in this vid, they are fighting like peasents (like everyone who has not worn a sword for a long time) so this actually is kinda realistic since most ppl in med age dont had the pleasure to get trained for years in the art of war)
Well the main thing is fun, and I know that Melee is definitely gonna be fun. I personally don't like decapitation since it's usually done in a very unrealistic, almost comical fashion. In real life people's heads don't fall of quite so easily.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Coward on January 08, 2016, 01:11:45 am
Mount and blade is the only game on market, that comes the closest to how medieval warfare really was, I and mean other games are like way way back there in the darkness...
If you want this hard enough, make your own mod/game, have you consider this maybe? But It will be hard to implement all the moves like the other guy said, M'n'B is smooth and simple, very effective.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Cyber on January 08, 2016, 01:48:54 am
If you would put punch of big rugby players or american footballers in those suits they would destroy pretty much everyone. I participated in similar stuff a bit myself, it's quite fun but definitely nothing like medieval combat and there is pretty much no technique involved, weapons are really not that useful unless you manage to score a strong hit to the head with a polearm or get a good hit on the leg.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Golem on January 08, 2016, 06:00:05 pm
If you really need to compare medieval combat to anything modern other than machete fights in Africa, take Kendo.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Utrakil on January 08, 2016, 10:19:36 pm
Why not compare it to historical fencing?
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Rebelyell on January 09, 2016, 01:43:32 am
Well that is opposite extremum, barely touch doesn't always mean wund especially with armors.
Title: Re: Shouldn't combat look more like this?
Post by: Jacko on January 09, 2016, 11:50:32 am
HEMA is certainly more useful to look at from an animation perspective, but you don't get any of that thuggish group combat you se in BOTN. Neither are ideal, but we look far more at HEMA than at BOTN.