cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Seawied on May 27, 2011, 08:44:21 pm
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Most of you are unaware, but the couching only lances are unable to block even though it does not list it as such on the website. This gives poking lances a huge advantage. Either enable blocking on all lances, or disable on all.
:edit: there seems to be some confusion, so let me clarify
Lances that can only be used for couching, cannot be used to manual block. This means that a jousting lance cannot block an incoming attack, while a heavy lance can.
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Yes, that seems fair.
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i would leave everything as it is now, but add that great lance (and jousting lance) can couch inffinetly long and from any speed(of course the lower speed lower damage)
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i would leave everything as it is now, but add that great lance (and jousting lance) can couch inffinetly long and from any speed(of course the lower speed lower damage)
To the infinite couch length: No. That would neither be realistic or balanced. There's a reason why this was changed from M&B.
For the couching at any speed: maybe.
What should occur though is that the cooldown timer should be reduced on couching. Couching has a much more limited reach than poking (or any other attack animation wise,) and should not be punished over more powerful and faster recovering lance-pokes.
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Most of you are unaware, but the couching only lances are unable to block even though it does not list it as such on the website. This gives poking lances a huge advantage. Either enable blocking on all lances, or disable on all.
Cant you block if you have a shield?
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All lances should only be couchable (the shorter the lance the longer you can couch)........alternative suggestion from someone else. Sorry, dont know who posted so i cant give you credit.
Their idea was making the lances have health and will break after so many attacks. I really like this other idea as its more realistic and definitely game balancing.
My contribution to the awesome idea:
The lances "break" but can still be used, however they no longer do pierce damage. Instead a little bit of blunt damage. This way you can still thrust stab opponents but it doesn't do much, but if you couch you'll still 1shot most folks.
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Cant you block if you have a shield?
you can, but I am talking about the lance itself.
All lances should only be couchable (the shorter the lance the longer you can couch)........alternative suggestion from someone else. Sorry, dont know who posted so i cant give you credit.
Their idea was making the lances have health and will break after so many attacks. I really like this other idea as its more realistic and definitely game balancing.
My contribution to the awesome idea:
The lances "break" but can still be used, however they no longer do pierce damage. Instead a little bit of blunt damage. This way you can still thrust stab opponents but it doesn't do much, but if you couch you'll still 1shot most folks.
You know, these are some interesting ideas, but they don't really pertain to the immediate topic at hand. I'm tempted to make a different thread discussing ways to make either couch lancing more attractive, or poke-lancing less attractive. Currently poke-lancing is much stronger and less risky.
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What are you talking about? That you can't block a couched lance? Or that while in melee, you cant block an attack with your lance?
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the couch only lances (jousting/greatlance) cannot be used to block.
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the couch only lances (jousting/greatlance) cannot be used to block.
Yeah, that's pretty silly.
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To the infinite couch length: No. That would neither be realistic or balanced. There's a reason why this was changed from M&B.
For the couching at any speed: maybe.
How would it be unrealistic?
The reason it was changed in Warband was because the Great Lance could also thrust. In exchange for being able the thrust, they decided it could only couch for so long. But since the Great Lance has no thrust in cRPG, it should be returned to infinite couching at speed.
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First things first: you could thrust a great lance in the original M&B.
And secondly: no, unless you were superman you would not be able to hold a lance out for very long. The weight of the weapon, or more precisely, the balance of the weapon made lances very unwieldy. Unlike a sword, which has its weight evenly distributed between the blade and the hilt, a lance was not designed to be balanced.
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First things first: you could thrust a great lance in the original M&B.
And secondly: no, unless you were superman you would not be able to hold a lance out for very long. The weight of the weapon, or more precisely, the balance of the weapon made lances very unwieldy. Unlike a sword, which has its weight evenly distributed between the blade and the hilt, a lance was not designed to be balanced.
Couching gives it balance.Reason of couching is to be able to hold 3 - 4 meter long lances with a straight line.
I think current couch system is good .Everything don't have to be realistic .It is a game for fun not a nerdly LARP event.
I do not agree with "Make all lances couch only" also since the longest lance = 190 cm and longest weapon on foot =300 cm.Considering a lancer loses like a 80-100 cm while couching cuz of the horses reach it would be nearly impossible to play as a lancer.
I think current system is fine.
Disabling block is also fail because when in real life you can carry a lance , a main weapon (2hander) and a shield because you can put your sword or lance on your horse.If you make lances no block,polearm cav builds will fail on horse.(No block on horse cuz lance got 2slots so as any polearm better than staff means no shield.)
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First things first: you could thrust a great lance in the original M&B.
And secondly: no, unless you were superman you would not be able to hold a lance out for very long. The weight of the weapon, or more precisely, the balance of the weapon made lances very unwieldy. Unlike a sword, which has its weight evenly distributed between the blade and the hilt, a lance was not designed to be balanced.
Please leave real world examples out of video game mechanics.
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Couching gives it balance.Reason of couching is to be able to hold 3 - 4 meter long lances with a straight line.
I'm not going to say much more on the matter because I don't want this to become a history fap. Couching did not balance the lance. In history, a knight would ride towards the enemy, slowly dropping his lance tip and slowly aiming it to its target. A second or two before impact, the lance is level and honed in on the target. The reason this is done so close before impact is because of the difficulty to perform such a feat. There's a few great videos out there on the web that demonstrate this. Take a look at some competitive jousting competition (none of that renaissance shit!) and look at the series "Weapons that made Britain"'s impact combat episode.
I think current couch system is good .Everything don't have to be realistic .It is a game for fun not a nerdly LARP event.
I do not agree with "Make all lances couch only" also since the longest lance = 190 cm and longest weapon on foot =300 cm.Considering a lancer loses like a 80-100 cm while couching cuz of the horses reach it would be nearly impossible to play as a lancer.
I agree. Also, the animation of couching reduces the weapon's effective reach as well. Couching is considerably more risky than poking because of this.
I think current system is fine.
Disabling block is also fail because when in real life you can carry a lance , a main weapon (2hander) and a shield because you can put your sword or lance on your horse.If you make lances no block,polearm cav builds will fail on horse.(No block on horse cuz lance got 2slots so as any polearm better than staff means no shield.)
This is one potential drawback of disabling on all. I'm on the fence on either to say "blocking on all lances!" and give lancers a buff, or to say "no blocking on lances!" and give them a nerf. The current system of the superior lances (like the heavy lance) does need to be changed in some way though for internal balance among lancers.
Please leave real world examples out of video game mechanics.
Some real world examples are fine -- so long as it takes a backseat to entertainment and balance. If entertainment and balance can be achieved through a realistic way and an unrealistic way, the realistic way should be implemented. That said, I don't want this thread to become a giant history fap.
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I get entertainment from realism.
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How would it be unrealistic?
The reason it was changed in Warband was because the Great Lance could also thrust. In exchange for being able the thrust, they decided it could only couch for so long. But since the Great Lance has no thrust in cRPG, it should be returned to infinite couching at speed.
Because the lances made for couching (well, all lances of that era and after were mad for couching) were too heavy to be held in a couched position for too long. It's a bit like archers that loose accuracy when they draw their bow for too long.
There one thing that needs change though, if we only want minimal changes, it's to reduce the couched lance cooldown to nearly zero. There's no reason for it, and this way of fighting needs a buff since we don't see anyone using great lances (diversity and all that...). If we wanted things to be a little more historical, the dominating lance fighting style would be the couched lance.
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Depends on the era Kafein, but impact combat was certainly one of the most fierce tactics in the arsenal of mounted warfare.
I'm making a new thread to address lancing. Let's discuss this further over there. http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,7085.0.html
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disabling on all would be extremely stupid since lancers can block with a shield anyway. and no shield lancers already gimping ourselves since we dont get 360 degree blocking forcefield. (I would love to see proper 2h lance animations and increased speed/reach than current 1h ones)
yes to adding manual blocking on jousting lances tho.
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I would imagine block removed from all lances but staying for spears-type weapons (less damage, faster, shorter, not couchable). This would lead to two different classes of cavalry: lancers with (very probably) shield and mounted spearmen, with respectively their own style of fighting.
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I would imagine block removed from all lances but staying for spears-type weapons (less damage, faster, shorter, not couchable). This would lead to two different classes of cavalry: lancers with (very probably) shield and mounted spearmen, with respectively their own style of fighting.
sounds pretty cool actually, shame the hafted blade is so buggy mounted.
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sounds pretty cool actually, shame the hafted blade is so buggy mounted.
Has some of the worst animation in the game. :cry:
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I would imagine block removed from all lances but staying for spears-type weapons (less damage, faster, shorter, not couchable). This would lead to two different classes of cavalry: lancers with (very probably) shield and mounted spearmen, with respectively their own style of fighting.
This is a cool idea
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If block is removed from all lances, as someone already pointed out, lancers would be forced to resort to 1h/sheild for secondary/dismounted combat--or get another 1slot weapon of some kind. Polearm users and those players who use a 2h weapon as a backup (ie, cavalry who don't fight with a shield, minus HA), while not exactly fucked, would be nerfed considerably, being unable to block incoming attacks on horseback. This might not be an evil thing, however, and I'm sure those classes would still exist.
Playtesting would be necessary to determine the extent to which removing lance-blocking would negatively effect polearm and two-handed specialist cavalrymen. I suggest those who are reading this try playing without blocking, and without a shield, on horseback. I am simply curious.
As to the suggestion that jousting/greatlances be allowed to block: I do not exactly care, to be honest. The weapons are already at a severe disadvantage to other lances, being unable to thrust, and are next to useless on foot. Perhaps it would be good to buff them enough so that their users could at least defend themselves.