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Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Leshma on October 26, 2015, 11:46:24 pm

Title: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Leshma on October 26, 2015, 11:46:24 pm
Processed meats rank alongside smoking as cancer causes – WHO (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/26/bacon-ham-sausages-processed-meats-cancer-risk-smoking-says-who)

What's the deal here? Substances they use to preserve meat (and vegetables) are considered carcinogenic. There were multiple studies on it without much success proving correlation but now WHO has come out to publicly state it as a fact. This also goes for cured fish.

There are claims that fresh red meat has same carcinogenic properties but that is probably due to same chemicals used in industrial preparation process. Doubt that pig or cow that is bread naturally would cause any of this, but pigs and cows living natural way before they end on the food table is extremely rare these days.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: darmaster on October 27, 2015, 12:12:32 am
Hope I get cancer before I meet real real life problems
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Rhekimos on October 27, 2015, 12:28:20 am
There's naturally occurring cancer causing elements in everyone's body. Growth and sex hormones. Certain fluids crystallize and become carcinogenic only after the fact.
If you get more of whatever that natural stuff is, from consuming red meat for example, you'll run a higher risk of cancer.

I don't know what in red meat raises the cancer risk, but it doesn't have to be non-natural in origin, like with processed food.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 27, 2015, 01:14:27 am
Did you read the article?

Quote
“The IARC says you can enjoy your yoga class, but don’t breathe air (class 1 carcinogen), sit near a sun-filled window (class 1), apply aloe vera (class 2B) if you get a sunburn, drink wine or coffee (class 1 and class 2B), or eat grilled food (class 2A). And if you are a hairdresser or do shift work (both class 2A), you should seek a new career.”

Quote
Dr Elizabeth Lund – an independent consultant in nutritional and gastrointestinal health, and a former research leader at the Institute of Food Research, who acknowledges she did some work for the meat industry in 2010 – said red meat was linked to about three extra cases of bowel cancer per 100,000 adults in developed countries.

“A much bigger risk factor is obesity and lack of exercise,” she said. “Overall, I feel that eating meat once a day combined with plenty of fruit, vegetables and cereal fibre, plus exercise and weight control, will allow for a low risk of colorectal cancer and a more balanced diet.”


Prof Ian Johnson, emeritus fellow at the Institute of Food Research, also said the effect was small. “It is certainly very inappropriate to suggest that any adverse effect of bacon and sausages on the risk of bowel cancer is comparable to the dangers of tobacco smoke, which is loaded with known chemical carcinogens and increases the risk of lung cancer in cigarette smokers by around twentyfold.”

The North American Meat Institute said defining red meat as a cancer hazard defied common sense.

“It was clear, sitting in the IARC meeting, that many of the panellists were aiming for a specific result despite old, weak, inconsistent, self-reported intake data,” said Betsy Booren, the institute’s vice-president of scientific affairs. “They tortured the data to ensure a specific outcome.

“Red and processed meat are among 940 agents reviewed by the IARC and found to pose some level of theoretical ‘hazard’. Only one substance, a chemical in yoga pants, has been declared by the IARC not to cause cancer.

It's just classic fear-mongering. Everything causes cancer. Living causes death. Don't live.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Leshma on October 27, 2015, 01:41:01 am
But but... its WHO! :wink:

Quote
I don't know what in red meat raises the cancer risk, but it doesn't have to be non-natural in origin, like with processed food.

They are mostly blaming curing salt and salt in general. Curing salt is kitchen salt or sodium chloride (NaCl) mixed with sodium nitrite (NaNO2). But researchers claim that even ordinary kitchen salt is dangerous. Think it has something to with the way salt interacts with living cells. Ever wondered how it can preserve meat for years? That's because it kill cells or makes them inactive by taking water out of them (not exactly taking but process known as osmosis occurs when there is salt outside cell walls). But I sure ain't a chemist so take this with grain of salt :mrgreen:

What neutralizes these nitrites or nitrates to go haywire on your organism is ascorbic acid, popularly known as Vitamin C. That is why eating veggies and fruits is helpful, especially in cancer cases but for people with compromised immune system in general. Other antioxidants help too. Cinnamon for example.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: PoisonedTail on October 27, 2015, 01:49:27 am
What doesn't cause cancer?
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Algarn on October 27, 2015, 01:54:22 am
Playing this game as archer for 1000+ hours gives you cancer.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Rhekimos on October 27, 2015, 02:27:10 am
They are mostly blaming curing salt and salt in general. Curing salt is kitchen salt or sodium chloride (NaCl) mixed with sodium nitrite (NaNO2). But researchers claim that even ordinary kitchen salt is dangerous. Think it has something to with the way salt interacts with living cells. Ever wondered how it can preserve meat for years? That's because it kill cells or makes them inactive by taking water out of them (not exactly taking but process known as osmosis occurs when there is salt outside cell walls). But I sure ain't a chemist so take this with grain of salt :mrgreen:

Hah.

Quote
What neutralizes these nitrites or nitrates to go haywire on your organism is ascorbic acid, popularly known as Vitamin C. That is why eating veggies and fruits is helpful, especially in cancer cases but for people with compromised immune system in general. Other antioxidants help too. Cinnamon for example.

Seems plausible.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: LordBerenger on October 27, 2015, 02:42:52 am
Now u learnt infidel kids. Bacon and pork overall is haram and causes cancer.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 27, 2015, 05:11:06 am
What doesn't cause cancer?
A chemical used in yoga pants. Everything else does.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Uulmshar on October 27, 2015, 05:55:59 am
At this point, any notification of "____ causes cancer," is getting ignored by me. If I have to give up smoking, drinking, and eating salted meat, I'll kill myself.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Prpavi on October 27, 2015, 06:39:14 am
Stress, shit office jobs, Dota causes cancer not tasty bacon. Eat what you feel suits your body (diverse diet is the way to go), don't overdue it and you're fine.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Sir_Hans on October 27, 2015, 09:01:18 am
They can bury me with my bacon and my salami.

i dont give a fuck.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Vibe on October 27, 2015, 09:23:02 am
that's why you don't eat meat that's above medium rare like a real man
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Moncho on October 27, 2015, 10:41:33 am
Even their "science" department disagrees with them: http://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/oct/26/meat-and-tobacco-the-difference-between-risk-and-strength-of-evidence
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Molly on October 27, 2015, 11:36:07 am
Meat causes cancer... hmm, gonna eat vegtables - oh wait, pestizides in them causing cancer... well, gonna eat fish then - dang, there is heave metals like quicksilver in them...

I know - just gonna starve myself then! -.-
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Bjord on October 27, 2015, 12:26:58 pm
Stop eating white bread, or bread that contains yeast or flour. Stop eating white rice, stop eating canned tuna, stop eating tuna in general (full of heavy metals), cut down meats to once or twice a weak (meat is acidic, for optimal health your body needs a pH of 7) eat more greens. If you can't avoid meat, eat turkey instead of chicken/beef, these are the worst. Make sure you get enough fatty acids, like omega 3 and 6, also start cooking with clarified butter or ghee, or even coconut oil.

And as with anything, moderation.

hmm, gonna eat vegtables - oh wait, pestizides in them causing cancer...

Make sure the vegetables you buy are organic, and you won't have a problem.

Eating well is super important, if you don't want to lose your hair from the radiation of the monitor you're in front of 5-6 hours a day.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 27, 2015, 12:38:39 pm
Make sure the vegetables you buy are organic

sure the vegetables you buy are organic

the vegetables you buy are organic

vegetables you buy are organic

you buy are organic

buy are organic

are organic
organic

organic
organic

organic

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adjective
1.
noting or pertaining to a class of chemical compounds that formerly comprised only those existing in or derived from plants or animals, but that now includes all other compounds of carbon.

Organic may refer to:
Organic, of or relating to an organism, a living entity
Organic, of or relating to an anatomical organ

1
a :  of, relating to, or arising in a bodily organ

1) In chemistry, a term used to describe any molecule held together by a chain of carbon atoms.

2) Used to describe the characteristics of a living system (for example a creature's body or an entire habitat) consisting of smoothly running interacting parts and shaped by the processes of Darwinian evolution.

3) As an analogy in the creative process, used to describe a work such as a novel or movie script made in such a way that the various parts developed as they were written/painted/whatever, one from another, rather than sticking rigidly to a preconceived plan.

4) In popular culture, a term applied in line with the most rabid intentions of New Age pseudoscience, ultimately from the mouths of people who would like to have scientists burned at the stake. Much favoured by people who use chemical as an unqualified snarl word. Artificial fertilisers are decried as poison, despite the fact that they contain the same chemical compounds that plants derive from "natural" fertilisers; if these compounds were real poisons, our biosphere would have been in serious doo-doo long ago. Anything coming from a lab is allegedly ipso facto evil and foul, even if its molecular structure is identical to that of compounds found in Nature. Genetic engineering is seen as the foul left hand of Satan, based on arguments that are about as rational as those for the existence of the fellah downstairs, too. Organic farming is held by its propagandists to be the farming of the future ... and it might be, at least if the human population of the Earth drops by 99 percent. Typical stock in trade arguments from the "organic" movement, as elsewhere in the witchypoo "alternative" movement, consist of appeals to fear, to irrationality and to conspiracy theories about Big Business ... but, such has been the success of the propaganda campaign over the last few decades, nobody seems to subject "organic" produce to the same safety standards. "Organic" production requires far more acreage than conventional farming methods to produce the same yield. It is typically shilled for by celebrities, who after all often have more money than sense and can afford to buy the stuff, and much beloved of fad dieters who don't eat that much anyway. All in all, one of the movements that make one genuinely fearful for the future of our technological civilisation.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Torben on October 27, 2015, 12:55:41 pm
oh god xant!  you know I love you on a sexual basis,  but damn.  you can be so stupid,  you cute little bastard.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Bjord on October 27, 2015, 01:30:35 pm
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adjective
1.
noting or pertaining to a class of chemical compounds that formerly comprised only those existing in or derived from plants or animals, but that now includes all other compounds of carbon.

Organic may refer to:
Organic, of or relating to an organism, a living entity
Organic, of or relating to an anatomical organ

1
a :  of, relating to, or arising in a bodily organ

1) In chemistry, a term used to describe any molecule held together by a chain of carbon atoms.

2) Used to describe the characteristics of a living system (for example a creature's body or an entire habitat) consisting of smoothly running interacting parts and shaped by the processes of Darwinian evolution.

3) As an analogy in the creative process, used to describe a work such as a novel or movie script made in such a way that the various parts developed as they were written/painted/whatever, one from another, rather than sticking rigidly to a preconceived plan.

4) In popular culture, a term applied in line with the most rabid intentions of New Age pseudoscience, ultimately from the mouths of people who would like to have scientists burned at the stake. Much favoured by people who use chemical as an unqualified snarl word. Artificial fertilisers are decried as poison, despite the fact that they contain the same chemical compounds that plants derive from "natural" fertilisers; if these compounds were real poisons, our biosphere would have been in serious doo-doo long ago. Anything coming from a lab is allegedly ipso facto evil and foul, even if its molecular structure is identical to that of compounds found in Nature. Genetic engineering is seen as the foul left hand of Satan, based on arguments that are about as rational as those for the existence of the fellah downstairs, too. Organic farming is held by its propagandists to be the farming of the future ... and it might be, at least if the human population of the Earth drops by 99 percent. Typical stock in trade arguments from the "organic" movement, as elsewhere in the witchypoo "alternative" movement, consist of appeals to fear, to irrationality and to conspiracy theories about Big Business ... but, such has been the success of the propaganda campaign over the last few decades, nobody seems to subject "organic" produce to the same safety standards. "Organic" production requires far more acreage than conventional farming methods to produce the same yield. It is typically shilled for by celebrities, who after all often have more money than sense and can afford to buy the stuff, and much beloved of fad dieters who don't eat that much anyway. All in all, one of the movements that make one genuinely fearful for the future of our technological civilisation.

lel

Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Ikarus on October 27, 2015, 02:05:02 pm
in a nutshell: keep an eye on the overall quality of the meat. Don´t eat meat everyday, but if so, treat yourself with some high quality meat

also, try veggie menus in the cafeteria, sometimes they´re surprisingly good and a great alternative to the regular "bratwurst and fries"-combo

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Teeth on October 27, 2015, 02:08:51 pm
4) In popular culture, a term applied in line with the most rabid intentions of New Age pseudoscience, ultimately from the mouths of people who would like to have scientists burned at the stake. Much favoured by people who use chemical as an unqualified snarl word. Artificial fertilisers are decried as poison, despite the fact that they contain the same chemical compounds that plants derive from "natural" fertilisers; if these compounds were real poisons, our biosphere would have been in serious doo-doo long ago. Anything coming from a lab is allegedly ipso facto evil and foul, even if its molecular structure is identical to that of compounds found in Nature. Genetic engineering is seen as the foul left hand of Satan, based on arguments that are about as rational as those for the existence of the fellah downstairs, too. Organic farming is held by its propagandists to be the farming of the future ... and it might be, at least if the human population of the Earth drops by 99 percent. Typical stock in trade arguments from the "organic" movement, as elsewhere in the witchypoo "alternative" movement, consist of appeals to fear, to irrationality and to conspiracy theories about Big Business ... but, such has been the success of the propaganda campaign over the last few decades, nobody seems to subject "organic" produce to the same safety standards. "Organic" production requires far more acreage than conventional farming methods to produce the same yield. It is typically shilled for by celebrities, who after all often have more money than sense and can afford to buy the stuff, and much beloved of fad dieters who don't eat that much anyway. All in all, one of the movements that make one genuinely fearful for the future of our technological civilisation.
Good read, would read again

Stop eating white bread, or bread that contains yeast or flour. Stop eating white rice, stop eating canned tuna, stop eating tuna in general (full of heavy metals), cut down meats to once or twice a weak (meat is acidic, for optimal health your body needs a pH of 7) eat more greens. If you can't avoid meat, eat turkey instead of chicken/beef, these are the worst. Make sure you get enough fatty acids, like omega 3 and 6, also start cooking with clarified butter or ghee, or even coconut oil.

And as with anything, moderation.

Make sure the vegetables you buy are organic, and you won't have a problem.

Eating well is super important, if you don't want to lose your hair from the radiation of the monitor you're in front of 5-6 hours a day.
And all of Bjord's health recommendations are of course based on peer-reviewed scientific research
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Leshma on October 27, 2015, 03:23:01 pm
Wonder if Snowden or Assange have anything interesting on WHO? That organization in past 15 years sold us H1N1, swine flue, Ebola and now this. Probably some other stuff happened during that time frame which I can't remember atm. How can a man have trust in anything they say?
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Rhekimos on October 27, 2015, 04:04:37 pm
Even their "science" department disagrees with them: http://www.theguardian.com/science/sifting-the-evidence/2015/oct/26/meat-and-tobacco-the-difference-between-risk-and-strength-of-evidence

Actually, in that very article, both WHO and the Cancer Research UK say that there's a causal link between processed meat and developing cancer.

From the article:
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The risk from processed meat is far less. WHO never said that the risk would be as bad as from smoking.


But nobody in the news business can resist making click-bait headlines that equate the two.

Quote from: ARTICLE
Vegetarians are probably breathing a sigh of relief today as headlines are warning us that processed and cured meats cause cancer. But the way this message has been framed in the media is extremely misleading.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Bjord on October 27, 2015, 04:42:12 pm
Good read, would read again
And all of Bjord's health recommendations are of course based on peer-reviewed scientific research

You and Xant make such a cute couple of logic warriors.

I don't really feel like bringing up a thousand references of which you can Google yourself. Instead of sitting there on your high horse why don't you actually entertain the idea that all of which I stated might be true, and then do your own research.

And just because something isn't of academic source doesn't mean it's less valid, that's just your conditioned mind dismissing anything that hasn't been disproven/proven by academia or "science".

FYI WHO just announced that many red meats and processed meats are carcinogenic, 11 scientists took part in this research and enough evidence was gathered to support this statement.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Teeth on October 27, 2015, 05:28:04 pm
I just find it very curious that you are willing to heavily modify your food regimen and even dare to tell others what to eat, and are not certain about who told you to do that. Finding out whether for example, the acidity of meat has long-term harmful effects on the human body is no picnic. Any meaningful evidence requires extensive expertise and extensive testing, either on animals or epidemiological, and the only people that are going to be able to provide that are academics. Your average nutritionist has no idea about this. Still, even peer-reviewed research is a cesspit of flawed research, business interests, pressures to publish and vanity, all of which makes knowing the truth about any of these things very difficult.

I am myself of the opinion that worrying too much about what you eat is going to be more harmful to your well-being than actually eating some crap, especially since there is no easy way to sift out the bullshit. Not smoking and not being fat is enough for me.

FYI WHO just announced that many red meats and processed meats are carcinogenic, 11 scientists took part in this research and enough evidence was gathered to support this statement.
Yes, I know, I am in this thread too. It is important to not draw a larger conclusion than they present though. They say that eating processed meats increases risk of cancer and eating red meats "probably" increases risk of cancer. This does not mean too much in itself, and I see no reason to cease my consumption of red meat.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Tibe on October 27, 2015, 05:34:07 pm
that's why you don't eat meat that's above medium rare like a real man

Like a retard ive never understood the hype about rare meat. If its red it just looks like undercooked meat that has a possibility of having diseases, to me, which is why it kinda kills the appetite for me. I'd feel better eating well done than rare. Unless its like a very high quality steak.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Torben on October 27, 2015, 05:39:57 pm
Unless its like a very high quality steak.

even then I like it better well done.  just my tastebuds talking there,  but whatevs.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Leshma on October 27, 2015, 05:49:34 pm
This ain't about carbon. That's completely different topic and it involves barbecue as way of preparing food (not just meat, you can grill anything).
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Grytviken on October 27, 2015, 06:41:20 pm
Moderation seems to be the problem here. Usually people eating processed and preserved shit on a regular basis are probably not living healthy lives to begin with. Laziness and convenience has become to norm for many people.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Macropus on October 27, 2015, 08:44:21 pm
You all guys discuss it like cancer actually exists...
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Torben on October 27, 2015, 09:21:47 pm
You all guys discuss it like cancer actually exists...

?

:'D
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Rhekimos on October 27, 2015, 09:26:17 pm
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 28, 2015, 12:07:00 pm
FYI WHO just announced that many red meats and processed meats are carcinogenic, 11 scientists took part in this research and enough evidence was gathered to support this statement.

Quote
“Red and processed meat are among 940 agents reviewed by the IARC and found to pose some level of theoretical ‘hazard’. Only one substance, a chemical in yoga pants, has been declared by the IARC not to cause cancer."
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Molly on October 28, 2015, 12:10:10 pm
You all guys discuss it like cancer actually exists...
Some elaborate CIA/NATO/NWO conspiracy?
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Torben on October 28, 2015, 12:52:30 pm
so spam causes cancer?
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Bjord on October 28, 2015, 01:07:14 pm


huehue xant, huehue
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 28, 2015, 01:30:32 pm
huehue xant, huehue
Did you not understand the quoted part? It's literally meaningless to say something is "carcinogenic." Literally. Unless you plan on breathing, eating, drinking, wearing and building your house out of a single chemical used in yoga pants. You can't go outside either, of course.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Bjord on October 28, 2015, 01:35:41 pm
Did you not understand the quoted part? It's literally meaningless to say something is "carcinogenic." Literally. Unless you plan on breathing, eating, drinking, wearing and building your house out of a single chemical used in yoga pants. You can't go outside either, of course.

I'm not going to specify in what grades something is carcinogenic when it's already made the headlines after a conclusive study, stating it is carcinogenic enough to bring people's attention to how it can adversely affect their health.

This nancy boy nitpicking thing of yours really doesn't suit you, Xanty.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 28, 2015, 02:26:36 pm
How about you specify in what grade air is carcinogenic? And compare with red meat.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Bjord on October 28, 2015, 02:47:42 pm
How about you specify in what grade air is carcinogenic? And compare with red meat.

Wouldn't that depend entirely on where you're breathing the air?

Red meat, pork in particular, is without the shadow of a doubt more carcinogenic than air in any case, period.

Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Torben on October 28, 2015, 03:31:37 pm
(click to show/hide)

whatever.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Macropus on October 28, 2015, 03:57:31 pm
Some elaborate CIA/NATO/NWO conspiracy?
Not really, just me trying to look smart by posting a stupid thing or something.  :? Kinda tried to bring up something fresh into the discussion, I guess.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 28, 2015, 04:08:55 pm
Wouldn't that depend entirely on where you're breathing the air?

Red meat, pork in particular, is without the shadow of a doubt more carcinogenic than air in any case, period.
Pork is more carcinogenic than air? Well, I'll be. Stop the presses!

What is the point you're trying to make?

(click to show/hide)

whatever.
Literally everything I've said has been very mild and entirely backed up by science and facts.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Molly on October 28, 2015, 04:52:33 pm
Not really, just me trying to look smart by posting a stupid thing or something.  :? Kinda tried to bring up something fresh into the discussion, I guess.
You wasted a perfectly good chance there to go all Murmi/Tovi on the matter. I merely tried to help :(
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Torben on October 28, 2015, 07:20:06 pm
Literally everything I've said has been very mild and entirely backed up by science and facts.

seemed to me that you were grinding bjords gears more then trying to make a point  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Kafein on October 28, 2015, 07:27:21 pm
But but... its WHO! :wink:

Yeah it's WHO and what they are actually saying is much less alarming than what the headlines imply, as it always is.

And as always, stupid people read the headlines and think "silly white coat people and their statistics, they don't know me!" despite the fact that 18% of something ridiculously tiny is still ridiculously tiny. Cancer is fucking random and causality is an illusion, deal with it.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Christo on October 28, 2015, 07:30:54 pm
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on October 28, 2015, 07:49:03 pm
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Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Molly on October 29, 2015, 11:25:38 am
[...]Cancer is fucking random and causality is an illusion, deal with it.
That's what I tell myself everytime I light another cigarette :lol:
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on November 18, 2015, 08:18:52 pm
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Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Leshma on November 18, 2015, 11:41:37 pm
I'm actually glad they made news out of this. Because of it, majority of older folks in my country (again, large majority of people here) stopped buying meat. Thus meat, which was way overpriced (compared to buying power of average Serbski) became cheaper. May this continue and more reports of harmful effects of meat end up on national television :D
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Butan on November 19, 2015, 01:26:29 am
in a nutshell: keep an eye on the overall quality of the meat everything. Don´t eat meat everyday too much, but if so, treat yourself with some high quality meat exercise

This is how I see food. Everything of a bad quality can cause problem, particularly in excess. And seeing that you cannot objectively analyze the quality of a product, without going through scientifical experiments that noone bothers except the lobby groups, you are better off just eating whatever you like.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Rhekimos on November 19, 2015, 04:57:50 am
in a nutshell: keep an eye on the overall quality of the meat everything. Don´t eat meat everyday too much, but if so, treat yourself with some high quality meat exercise
This is how I see food. Everything of a bad quality can cause problem, particularly in excess. And seeing that you cannot objectively analyze the quality of a product, without going through scientifical experiments that noone bothers except the lobby groups, you are better off just eating whatever you like.

Lobby groups are the ones providing scientific knowledge? This is a deeply misinformed post.

And you can see clearly when food is rotten, that's objectively true. If it makes you sick, it was objectively bad.
The smaller objective facts are out there, even if they are not immediately observable. If we know for a fact that ingredient X causes something bad, then a food product with ingredient X is objectively "bad" or worse than a identical product without it. There's no subjectivity in disease statistics.
And you can check the amounts of sugars, salt and fats and many other things right on the tin.

And even premium stuff can cause problems, especially in excess.

Eating X and then exercising won't fix everything. Many foodstuffs do more in your body than just give energy.
Fructose is one example of this. It's sugar like the rest of them, but it's almost entirely metabolized in the liver, causing fatty liver disease, among other unwelcome changes in normal body function.


You're absolutely right in not worrying too much about eating meat though.
But whatever you choose to eat and think, at the very least don't equate scientists with lobbyists, please.


Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Xant on November 19, 2015, 07:01:15 am
Scientists are often paid by lobbyists.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Rhekimos on November 19, 2015, 07:13:45 am
Scientists are often paid by lobbyists.

Not untrue. The word "often" needs clarification to be meaningful in this discussion though.

A significant amount? Most scientists are directly employed by political lobbyists?
Money used with many strategic considerations also funds science?

And even if they were, how the findings are used and which results are published are often not decided by the scientists themselves.
Unless they are being dishonest, they are trying to find facts about the world around us, no matter who employs them.

Confusing the two serves very little purpose.
Title: Re: Cured meat causing cancer
Post by: Kafein on November 20, 2015, 06:17:16 pm
That's what I tell myself everytime I light another cigarette :lol:

Causality is an illusion, correlation isn't.