cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Xant on September 08, 2015, 12:11:39 am

Title: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2015, 12:11:39 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2982899/Are-smartphones-making-STUPID-Googling-information-making-mentally-lazy-study-claims
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/feature-is-it-just-us-or-are-kids-getting-really-stupid/

New generations (born after 1997 or so) are going to be much dumber on average than older generations, and most of it is thanks to smart phones. Instead of reading a book, they'll play a simple phone game that initiates a positive loop in their monkey brain but stimulates their thinking not at all. Instead of learning to write properly, they use lol txt chat in Whatsapp as their primary means of communication. Instead of learning entire bodies of knowledge, they'll Google whatever they need; for example, instead of understanding why and how WW2 started, they'll just Google a specific piece of information about it. And then forget it. Even PC games have gotten ridiculously simple, requiring very little independent thought. The youngsters these days play CoD: 14 instead of Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear or Baldur's Gate 2. And even though the games are so simple a monkey could play them, there's still so much hand holding in them that it'd be insulting if everyone wasn't so used to it. They can't even use computers because they're so used to just pressing buttons without understanding what goes on in the background: OS's like Windows 8 have been moving this trend to the PC, simplifying everything. Now parents are the ones who know how computers work, when it used to be the other way around.

And schools are only making matters worse:

Quote
Just the same, I was glad when, for his senior year, Jake proposed taking an English course at the local community college. Come September, he and a buddy drove to the college every Monday night and sat for three hours in English 101 — where they never once read a book. They watched movies instead.

Jake got an A- in the course.

O tempora, o mores.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Grytviken on September 08, 2015, 12:22:14 am
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2982899/Are-smartphones-making-STUPID-Googling-information-making-mentally-lazy-study-claims
http://www.phillymag.com/articles/feature-is-it-just-us-or-are-kids-getting-really-stupid/

New generations (born after 1997 or so) are going to be much dumber on average than older generations, and most of it is thanks to smart phones. Instead of reading a book, they'll play a simple phone game that initiates a positive loop in their monkey brain but stimulates their thinking not at all. Instead of learning to write properly, they use lol txt chat in Whatsapp as their primary means of communication. Instead of learning entire bodies of knowledge, they'll Google whatever they need; for example, instead of understanding why and how WW2 started, they'll just Google a specific piece of information about it. And then forget it. Even PC games have gotten ridiculously simple, requiring very little independent thought. The youngsters these days play CoD: 14 instead of Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear or Baldur's Gate 2. And even though the games are so simple a monkey could play them, there's still so much hand holding in them that it'd be insulting if everyone wasn't so used to it. They can't even use computers because they're so used to just pressing buttons without understanding what goes on in the background: OS's like Windows 8 have been moving this trend to the PC, simplifying everything. Now parents are the ones who know how computers work, when it used to be the other way around.

And schools are only making matters worse:

O tempora, o mores.

rogue spear and baldurs gate were awesome  :mrgreen: did u play on the msn gaming zone?
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Christo on September 08, 2015, 08:39:26 am
reading the daily mail won't make them any smarter though :(
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Umbra on September 08, 2015, 08:47:24 am
“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”


"The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress."

Our parents thought we were dumber because we played Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear or Baldur's Gate 2 on our PCs instead of playing outside.

Every gen thinks the younger one is shit.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Beauchamp on September 08, 2015, 09:00:15 am
the best generation of kids were the ones around 2.000.000 BC, from there it goes only downwards.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Christo on September 08, 2015, 09:00:39 am
the best generation of kids were the ones around 2.000.000 BC, from there it goes only downwards.

only prehistorik kidz will get this
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Vovka on September 08, 2015, 09:26:42 am
Illuminati prepare populations to reaping by aliens

it's obvious why nobody notices it
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2015, 10:45:59 am


Our parents thought we were dumber because we played Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear or Baldur's Gate 2 on our PCs instead of playing outside.

Every gen thinks the younger one is shit.
Yes, they "thought" that because they did not understand those games. Are you telling me you don't understand those stupidly simple mobile games?

Games like Rogue Spear and BG2 require thinking and thoughtful gameplay. They're much more complex than anything you could do while "playing outside." This is not true for mobile games, or even most modern PC games that kids play now.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Vovka on September 08, 2015, 11:03:19 am
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 :lol:
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Vibe on September 08, 2015, 11:04:41 am
Kids should be required to play Aurora 4x (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VideoGame/Aurora4X) or at least Dwarf Fortress before continuing their internet journey. That would solidify them as real men.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on September 08, 2015, 11:35:52 am
A main problem that I see in my surrounding is that many current parents never played video games or had much contact with pc in their youth and are behind time today, they cannot communicate with their children about what they are doing. They see some evil machines that they try too prohibit instead of talking about what you can do with those devices and whats useful and what not.

The only game I taught my daughter so far is Micro Machines 2 via Dos-box, man she's good already. :)
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 08, 2015, 12:13:25 pm
only prehistorik kidz will get this

#lewronggeneration
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Beauchamp on September 08, 2015, 12:30:21 pm
the only game that taught me anything useful was Typing of the Dead 1

all the remaining time I spent playing computer games is close to wasted - still better than watching tv or wasting it in other ways though. well maybe i got better reflexes, thats why some pedestrians are still alive and with unbroken legs.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Teeth on September 08, 2015, 01:07:52 pm
the only game that taught me anything useful was Typing of the Dead 1

all the remaining time I spent playing computer games is close to wasted - still better than watching tv or wasting it in other ways though. well maybe i got better reflexes, thats why some pedestrians are still alive and with unbroken legs.
I am pretty sure there are many games that have positive effects on your fine motor skills and cognitive capacity, solving complex problems, solving them fast, creative thinking, planning et cetera. Also, video games taught me a lot of English, history and geography in a fun way. That said, I have always been drawn to complex video games, which current triple AAA development simply does not develop anymore.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2015, 01:33:29 pm
Yes, just because they haven't taught you some trivia doesn't mean they're not making you use many parts of your brain.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 08, 2015, 05:06:04 pm
I like to wear dirty underwear on my face
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Radament on September 08, 2015, 07:15:25 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Kafein on September 08, 2015, 07:26:43 pm
I think that as with many things, some kids will be attracted to dumb stuff and others will be attracted to intelligent stuff, that doesn't change (or ever so slowly). Intelligent stuff never disappears. And if you look back, dumb people were just as dumb as they were today, but additionally did not have the tools to cope with it. In the meantime, society also evolved to require far more cerebral skills and far less physical skills than before.

So no, I don't think kids are becoming dumber, they just play some dumb game on the tablet instead of playing some dumb game with a ball. That makes them fatter, not dumber.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Paul on September 08, 2015, 07:37:59 pm
There hasn't been Dwarf Fortress or Aurora 4x in the 90s. Any kid growing up with this will get smart, autistic or most likely both.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2015, 09:05:34 pm
I think that as with many things, some kids will be attracted to dumb stuff and others will be attracted to intelligent stuff, that doesn't change (or ever so slowly). Intelligent stuff never disappears. And if you look back, dumb people were just as dumb as they were today, but additionally did not have the tools to cope with it. In the meantime, society also evolved to require far more cerebral skills and far less physical skills than before.

So no, I don't think kids are becoming dumber, they just play some dumb game on the tablet instead of playing some dumb game with a ball. That makes them fatter, not dumber.
If only it worked like that. Tablets aren't a replacement for football, they're replacement for stuff like books.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Jambi on September 08, 2015, 09:39:55 pm

------

Ive seen the Mensa group i visit, also dwindling away.. We used to have great discussions or contributed to scientific topics. But as of lately we gotten alot of new members, wich are not interested in putting their gifted minds into productive activities.... but rather play Magic the gathering card games all day.
Let alone the admission tests  have been drasticly simplified.
Its always been the 2% , but the 2% of the newer generations score much lower then the older ones.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Weren on September 08, 2015, 10:02:14 pm
Whatsapp
Umm actually it's called WhatsApp.

Bet you feel stupid now.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 08, 2015, 10:08:27 pm

------

Ive seen the Mensa group i visit, also dwindling away.. We used to have great discussions or contributed to scientific topics. But as of lately we gotten alot of new members, wich are not interested in putting their gifted minds into productive activities.... but rather play Magic the gathering card games all day.
Let alone the admission tests  have been drasticly simplified.
Its always been the 2% , but the 2% of the newer generations score much lower then the older ones.
Related to the mouse experiment, the real problem nowadays is that our brains are designed for a hunter-gatherer environment and are actually very easy to please. Simple mobile apps, among other things, take advantage of this fact. It doesn't matter how intelligent someone is, their pleasure center still works the same way. Why read a book when they could be getting much more rewarding chemicals from pressing a couple buttons on a phone?
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Angantyr on September 08, 2015, 10:35:44 pm
I'm currently replaying one of the best and hardest of the classic RPGs, Ultima VII from 1992 (through Exult), and looking at the Witcher 3 forums at the same time, except totalwarcenter probably the only modern, mainstream gaming forum I've occasionally glanced at, and it's a case study in how at least the consumer base have changed. I often gawk at the inane things some players find challenging or as 'broken mechanics' today in comparison.

But there's also something about it among adults. Today's adults consume entertainment that would most likely be considered childish or stupid before the 1960-70s.

It's also pretty evident if you read classic literature, and compare the language use with most of today's popular literature, and remember that what we call the classics were at their time for popular consumption (though of course for a smaller market).
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Jambi on September 08, 2015, 11:31:56 pm
Related to the mouse experiment, the real problem nowadays is that our brains are designed for a hunter-gatherer environment and are actually very easy to please. Simple mobile apps, among other things, take advantage of this fact. It doesn't matter how intelligent someone is, their pleasure center still works the same way. Why read a book when they could be getting much more rewarding chemicals from pressing a couple buttons on a phone?

That is true, so it might be a question of evolution and adaptation.
My view on it:
You can either choose to become aware of whats going on in your brain and how it effects you, and try to rewire and train it yourself by going out of the comfort zone. and work towards evolution. Be a try hard.
Or you can choose to join the masses and simply give into an misused reflexes and squander away in a luxurious degenrated state.

To give more explanation:
By troublesolving issue's by usage of outside influences such as Problem -> Google -> Instant gratification, and your brain has gotten used to this type of behaviour, it will eventually dumb down and become lazy, as the brain isnt stressed or demanded to be pushed beyond current comprehension. It will never develop more nerves and connections, but will overdevelop only the few parts you're using. And other parts will degenerate, ending up in one of the many conditations we hear about lately. Chemicals are overproduced or underproduced, balance has become and issue.

By troubleshooting yourself, trying to find out the problem without outside sources. Your brain will rely on both creativity and reasoning, it will strenghten the bridge between the two hemisphere.. reactivating many parts wich we barely use in society/lives nowadays. And by that, it will enable many more diffrent kind of thought processes and it will make you smarter overtime, because you demand you're brain to develop in such a way. Many of brain activities we have lost will slowly be incoporated again. Drag in a living 3rd party for your troubleshooting, try fixing something together.. and your brain will have a hemisphere orgy :P And no.. i dont mean tech-support over the internet lol

Given in the mouse expirement video, all needs were given to them. They had no need to think to much for themselves anymore, and thus became dumber and developed social issue's etc. Much as like we see in the masses of the human world.

Its the choice to become either a slave to your brain, or taking things in your own hands giving it orders on what you need to be done.
Like people that have broken their legs, and have to learn to walk again. By putting them in the right state of mind, and effort to push themselves, their brains will rewire and learn to walk again, because it is demanded to.

The hunter/gatherer brain concept, i do believe in. But many of it is based within the oldest part of our brain, wich is the reptilian part.. wich also responsible for the immediate gratification urges. But we have so much more then just that part of our brain.  The Hunter/Gatherer concept is many times misconceived with some cavemen with a club imagery, but is in fact much broader and sophisticated as one might think. Many new age crap blames the reptilian part for all the trouble we have now in the world in short. But far from that, i think the reptilian brain should be praised for what it is, what its capable of in healthy enviroment and usage.

To take it literally:
A hunter for example, hunts animals.... given. But a good hunter will also have to push himself to learn about its surroundings, keep track of cycles of nature, keep track of animal populations, effectively thinking not only for himself but also his outside world etc etc activating many other function then jsut the reptilian part. And if the hunter is a fine specimen of human... it will also inherit curiosity. He will go beyond simply hunting, but also will start wondering to such as why things are the way they are.. pushing beyond the envelope... pushing his brain to develop.
Same goes for a gatherer somewhat, but ill keep it short.

Saying our brains are designed for hunter/gathering, does not mean we cannot go beyond that. But granted its actually a very useful design to go out there,  explore and have eyes wide open, ready to adapt! And not only to be used for survival. One tiny part, capable of triggering the whole. wow :wink:


Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Jambi on September 08, 2015, 11:42:14 pm
I'm currently replaying one of the best and hardest of the classic RPGs, Ultima VII from 1992 (through Exult), and looking at the Witcher 3 forums at the same time, except totalwarcenter probably the only modern, mainstream gaming forum I've occasionally glanced at, and it's a case study in how at least the consumer base have changed. I often gawk at the inane things some players find challenging or as 'broken mechanics' today.

But there's also something about it among adults. Today's adults consume entertainment that would most likely be considered childish or stupid before the 1960-70s.

It's also pretty evident if you read classic literature, and compare the language use with most of today's popular literature, and remember that what we call the classics were at their time for popular consumption (though of course for a smaller market).
Your post reminded me of this video:

Tho entertaining to watch, its also a concept that has risen up in some corners of the gaming community, and personally i hope this wont spread.
Funhaus gives a comedy edge to it, but some others take it quite literally.
Giving entertainment a direct link to $.. how destructive will that become.

I think back then we realy had a diffrent concept of what entertainment was. We, now so far ahead of that time.. its changed drasticly.
In the past we did not have the graphics we have nowadays, but we had pixels that should resemble a certain something.... and with a touch of our own imagingation we could make it so.
Nowadays games are simply less involving as they do not require alot of the users imagination or input.
In the past the user made the game for what it was. Nowadays the game presents itself to the user to what it is.
Hence why our nostalgic feelings towards those old games are so deeply rooted, they truely became part of us.
Never had a newer game touch me as deep as those from the past. And even when im out of games, i can never find a newer game i want to play... but always go back to DOS era :P
Picking up a new game like Witcher 3 ie is a problem for me, not a problem of not willing to go with the times... but a problem of me finding Witcher 3 simply bland.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Leshma on September 09, 2015, 12:31:20 am
There hasn't been Dwarf Fortress or Aurora 4x in the 90s. Any kid growing up with this will get smart, autistic or most likely both.

And one day in the future, they will code nudge in next gen cRPG and will feel good about themselves. How does it feel being a savant?
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Alvin_the_Chipmunk on September 09, 2015, 12:46:26 am
cellphones are radioactive, use earphones when on the phone
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on September 09, 2015, 01:54:52 am
the best generation of kids were the ones around 2.000.000 BC, from there it goes only downwards.

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Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Gravoth_iii on September 09, 2015, 07:47:09 pm
Most kids who play the simpler games wouldnt pick up games like Baldurs gate anyways, since its too complex. Simple games are more popular simply because more people can play them, those who have a hard time learning things wont pick up dwarf fortress now a days, while there still exists a bit of younger gamers who will pick up dwarf fortress and learn how to play it. Stupid children wont pick up harder-to-learn games if they were the only option, they would just find something else thats easier on the brain, like going outside. Now we have the choice of easier games and none are forced to go outside, yay.

And yes every new generation is stupider than the previous one, just like how every new generation has shit music taste, and all music produced after 2000 is crap, while 90s was golden age etc etc bla bla.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 09, 2015, 07:57:47 pm
It's a fact.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2730791/Are-STUPID-Britons-people-IQ-decline.html
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Kafein on September 09, 2015, 08:33:16 pm
If only it worked like that. Tablets aren't a replacement for football, they're replacement for stuff like books.

Your expectation of dumb kids reading books suggests to me you haven't been near dumb kids much. Or at least not with the perspective to appreciate how dumb they really are.

while 90s was golden age etc etc bla bla.

No.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Angantyr on September 09, 2015, 08:40:26 pm
Whenever I think this I always try to bear in mind that this notion is as old as Western literature itself, hence the Socrates quote Umbra posted (without citing source).
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 09, 2015, 09:14:51 pm
Your expectation of dumb kids reading books suggests to me you haven't been near dumb kids much. Or at least not with the perspective to appreciate how dumb they really are.

No, that is not my expectation. I am talking about averages here.

And yes, the notion is old; yet there has never been a jump in technology like now that could have caused something like this, it's just been grumpy old men complaining for no real reason.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 09, 2015, 09:47:17 pm
Unlike now where for the first time in human history it's a totally legitimate complaint and it's only a real issue this time around... in our lifetime... said every grumpy old man ever about the following generations
Your reading comprehension is as good as ever.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Havelle on September 09, 2015, 10:02:45 pm
Also kids these days spend so much time socially interacting with each other on their cellphones that they can't even socially interact with each other. Its like yo, can you just stop socially interacting for a minute and just socially interact?
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Falka on September 09, 2015, 10:06:53 pm
If only it worked like that. Tablets aren't a replacement for football, they're replacement for stuff like books.

HOw many of your age-mates read books on regular basis? I mean more than 2 or 3 per year.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: pogosan on September 09, 2015, 10:56:58 pm
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Jambi on September 09, 2015, 10:59:10 pm
HOw many of your age-mates read books on regular basis? I mean more than 2 or 3 per year.

Do magazines count to? Have a stack of around 200 under my bed, i read about 6 of them from cover to cover every night... Or at least until im "satisfied" with what ive learned.
My knowledge is of the scale, everytime i walk up to a female speciment  and start discussing their anatomy.. they look at me and walk away in shock! I'd be baffled as well!

Oh my gosh... kids these days, they dont even want to hear it! So dumb
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Algarn on September 09, 2015, 11:15:14 pm
I guess you should count articles (from non biased sources) and documentaries too, since they are also teaching you something like books.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: cup457 on September 09, 2015, 11:40:54 pm
You blame kids but look at who raised us? Not saying 100% of blame should be on parent but cmon. Also people are getting stupider because there is no competetion. No real life of death competition. Every large country is more or less peaceful and there hasnt been a real war in over half a decade. Your average person always becomes the lowest common denominator so if nothing forces them to fight to make themselves better then they never will
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Falka on September 10, 2015, 12:04:53 am
I just think that not only kids read less books than they used to. We all are getting dumber.

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Some other charts.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Kafein on September 10, 2015, 12:10:19 am
Reading fewer books doesn't equate getting dumber.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 10, 2015, 12:17:29 am
My favorite food is glue.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Jambi on September 10, 2015, 12:27:21 am
My favorite food is glue.

You're not supposed to eat glue! Your supposed to sniff it!

See! kids getting so dumb... oh my gosh
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Leshma on September 10, 2015, 01:15:11 am
You blame kids but look at who raised us? Not saying 100% of blame should be on parent but cmon. Also people are getting stupider because there is no competetion. No real life of death competition. Every large country is more or less peaceful and there hasnt been a real war in over half a decade. Your average person always becomes the lowest common denominator so if nothing forces them to fight to make themselves better then they never will

Your country is pretty much constantly at war with someone and yet it produced you, perfect example of dumb human. So much for your theory.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on September 10, 2015, 01:52:55 am
Your country is pretty much constantly at war with someone and yet it produced you, perfect example of dumb human. So much for your theory.

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I don't really know this cup457 guy, but this made me laugh. :D
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 10, 2015, 02:29:29 am
You blame kids but look at who raised us? Not saying 100% of blame should be on parent but cmon. Also people are getting stupider because there is no competetion. No real life of death competition. Every large country is more or less peaceful and there hasnt been a real war in over half a decade. Your average person always becomes the lowest common denominator so if nothing forces them to fight to make themselves better then they never will
Blame's got nothing to do with whether kids are getting dumber or not.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 10, 2015, 05:19:56 am
Stupid people are blissfully unaware of how stupid they really are..........
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Tibe on September 10, 2015, 05:56:41 am
The main reason why kids today are stupid is the fact that they lack concentration and passion to develop decent skills. Books got nothing to do with it. Reading books does not necessarly increase intelligence. Majority of books do not develop your brain. Only certain books do. I think one could get all the info and general understanding from Wikipedia about WW2 IF and IF one would just concentrate and bother to read a lot about it, instead of reading about a single event or fact. It doesnt matter if you throw a textbook or a smartphone filled with the same info infront of their face, if they dont want to read it and nobody is there to force them to read it, they will not read it and continue to be dumb.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on September 10, 2015, 08:11:17 am
The main reason why kids today are stupid is the fact that they lack concentration and passion to develop decent skills. Books got nothing to do with it. Reading books does not necessarly increase intelligence. Majority of books do not develop your brain. Only certain books do. I think one could get all the info and general understanding from Wikipedia about WW2 IF and IF one would just concentrate and bother to read a lot about it, instead of reading about a single event or fact. It doesnt matter if you throw a textbook or a smartphone filled with the same info infront of their face, if they dont want to read it and nobody is there to force them to read it, they will not read it and continue to be dumb.

Nah, that's not true. Books, and especially books for very young children that you read to them are very healthy for your brain because you automatically start using your imagination.

Another problem I see today in my surrounding and had some discussions with 'pedagogues' or similar is that small children are constantly being underestimated and not challenged in many ways. For example books, audiobooks and tv and film, everything has to be 'kindgerecht'. Many believe that if you read a book to a small child with complicated prose or difficult wording that it is somehow dangerous for them because you overstrain them. In my experience most small kids (even at the age of 3 or smaller) especially love old and complicated prose, the sound of it alone makes them come sit by you in hordes. The worst thing that can happen is that some kids are bored, no harm done.

Similar to that there was a discussion a few years ago that the books of Astred Lindgren are not appropriate for children or at least should be altered because the word 'friend' is used in them. If you'd argue that it is maybe a good thing that children learn that this word was used in the past and explain to them why it was used and why it is not used anymore the majority (including our education minister) would say that children cannot grasp such a complex thing and so it is better to pretend the word doesn't exist until a certain age. Again I say this is bullshit and we need to stop protecting children from complexity.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 10, 2015, 11:52:16 am
Yes, reading books in your childhood really does have an impact on your intelligence.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 10, 2015, 12:45:28 pm
Every gen thinks the younger one is shit.

And with that this thread should be already done. Or do you believe that old people thought that kids from the 80ies were smart? Or even looked smart?
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

here, have some brilliant metal gear solid 5 camera work instead

have some major adventure time spoiler

also we should set up a nice KaiserRound of Napoleonic Wars soon, that game is hilarious
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: cup457 on September 10, 2015, 04:39:37 pm
America has not delcared war on anyone since WWII and when i say war I mean a real war. Not foreign "intervention" If we hadn't invaded Vietnam or Korea what would have happened  to us? nothing at all most likely. and why do you say im dumb? I'm most likely 1-2 standard deviations above the mean.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 10, 2015, 05:01:53 pm
And with that this thread should be already done. Or do you believe that old people thought that kids from the 80ies were smart? Or even looked smart?
Because looks have nothing to do with anything? Why did "old people" think that "kids from 80s" weren't smart? Can you name the reason? If so, do you think that reason has any credibility? No?

It's like claiming that an asteroid can never hit Earth because religious nuts have been proclaiming the end of the world for so long and nothing has happened. Reverse stupidity is not intelligence.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 10, 2015, 08:15:35 pm
Because looks have nothing to do with anything? Why did "old people" think that "kids from 80s" weren't smart? Can you name the reason? If so, do you think that reason has any credibility? No?
Because what I did was generalizing a specific group of people based on a specific part of that group, which yet does not represent the whole group after all.

Generalizing.

It´s like saying
Instead of learning to write properly, they use lol txt chat in Whatsapp as their primary means of communication.


I liked this part the most though
Quote
The youngsters these days play CoD: 14 instead of Rainbow Six: Rogue Spear or Baldur's Gate 2.
That´s even better than the old grandpas saying that video games make "these kids" dumb, although they spent their whole life in front of TVs themselfes. Now we got old people claiming that video games back then were smarter than those of today.
(click to show/hide)

Brilliant.

It´s not as if I´d ever compare Doom with Europa Universalis IV or stuff.

Why did you make a thread then when you knew the answer to this topic all along :/
The youngsters have always been stupid through the ages, it´s just the way they´re being stupid that changes.

"Youth is a wonderful thing. What a crime to waste it on children."
-George Bernard Shaw
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 10, 2015, 08:29:07 pm
Well, at least he´s not reading "The Sun"
(click to show/hide)


still one of the most successful papers out there, woop dee doo  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 10, 2015, 09:18:04 pm
Because what I did was generalizing a specific group of people based on a specific part of that group, which yet does not represent the whole group after all.

Generalizing.

It´s like saying
No, it's nothing like that. You're completely avoiding my question and your answer has nothing to do with anything. Okay, you're generalizing, so what? What is the point of your "generalization"? How is it similar to what I said? I provide a reason for why kids are having a harder time writing properly, you provide nothing but a straw man about old people not liking how 80s people looked.

Quote
Why did you make a thread then when you knew the answer to this topic all along :/
The youngsters have always been stupid through the ages, it´s just the way they´re being stupid that changes.
This is argument by assertion and you provide no reasoning to back it up, only circular logic.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Clockworkkiller on September 10, 2015, 10:05:42 pm
its the jew controlled media blasting the hidden frequency sound waves into our brains, the signal makes us dumber, stupid and complacent. This is how they control us!

WAKE UP PEOPLE
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Porthos on September 11, 2015, 12:46:16 am
I became dumber playing EU1 battle shitlord gankfest mode. Dear devs, pls apply the new map rotation made by Teeth, so some people could play siege (and not conquest) again. Thank you.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Panos_ on September 11, 2015, 12:48:07 am
I became dumber playing EU1 battle shitlord gankfest mode. Dear devs, pls apply the new map rotation made by Teeth, so some people could play siege (and not conquest) again. Thank you.

Please stay on EU1, I need the easy kills.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 11, 2015, 02:02:35 am
No, it's nothing like that. You're completely avoiding my question and your answer has nothing to do with anything. Okay, you're generalizing, so what? What is the point of your "generalization"? How is it similar to what I said? I provide a reason for why kids are having a harder time writing properly, you provide nothing but a straw man about old people not liking how 80s people looked.
This is argument by assertion and you provide no reasoning to back it up, only circular logic.

The thing is that you´re just making assumptions based on observations or guessings. With my generalization I was pointing at you generalizing things. You can´t just say that all the kids are getting dumber, using iphones yadda yadda, but I think you rather mean "most of the children" and not all of em. Alright, I´ll try it again

Quote
Instead of reading a book, they'll play a simple phone game that initiates a positive loop in their monkey brain but stimulates their thinking not at all.
The average child (I repeat, average child) doesn´t really read books, maybe rather comics. Instead of watching TV a lot, they now toy around with tablets and smart phones. I have no idea yet if that is better or worse for them, since they´re now able to decide what kind of stuff they want to spend their time into. Could change to the better or the worse.

Quote
Instead of learning to write properly, they use lol txt chat in Whatsapp as their primary means of communication.
This could actually become a problem, but it´s simply too early to fall to conclusions yet. We´ll have to wait and see if this affects the kids in their grammar and spelling.

Quote
They can't even use computers because they're so used to just pressing buttons without understanding what goes on in the background
that´s why there´s stuff coming up like win8: it´s for "casual pc users". I know a lot of people who barely work with the pc and that´s why they can´t really get along with it. For people like us who use the pc nearly everyday it´s a trivial thing, but "casual users" can have a really hard time figuring their system out. So having an OS which is simple and similar to smartphones or tablets makes their work with it easier, they don´t necessarily have to understand it, they only want to know how to work with it and that´s it. Think of it like a car owner who wants a car because he wants to drive with it, but isn´t really interested in repairing all by himself (excessively spoken of course). They just use it for basic functions, not like an advanced working system like we do.

Quote
Just the same, I was glad when, for his senior year, Jake proposed taking an English course at the local community college. Come September, he and a buddy drove to the college every Monday night and sat for three hours in English 101 — where they never once read a book. They watched movies instead.
And that´s just a shitty school :D

In the end, it´s just an article based on one single study. Heck, we also have plenty of studies going on here at our college and 300-500 participants are normal (mostly questionnaires, but often also field tests and voluntary experiments).

I´d get nervous if there were quite a couple of studies saying nearly the same thing, but this article is simply here to incense people and sell the news. One study doesn´t really rattle my bones. And that second article of that mother talking about kids in general also isn´t really scientific, but more opinion- and observation-based. Even the people in the commet section are mostly calling her statements nonsense.

tl;dr: Don´t rely on or trust articles which are based on only one or two sources or even simply the authors opinion; you might have a point with your statements, but won´t really be able to defend them without having enough proof in your hands.

I really hope this didn´t turn out too rude here :/
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: cup457 on September 11, 2015, 06:27:49 am
Shitty schooling combined with our culture has definitely contributed to many children being less educated, if not less intelligent. In America that vast majority of children do not respect teachers. Some (mostly ghetto kids) outright hate teachers. Very few teachers in my high school could actually control their students, and it was usually male teachers(i guess its the alpha male thing.) Even in high school many english teachers are still teaching kids how to write complete sentences. MY freshman class was over 550 people and a little over 300 actually graduated, only ~130? of which had above a 3.0 gpa weighted. Most kids, even the ones that didnt act up, just kind of went to school and did the least required(this was me) just to get by because the school is closer to a jail than anything else. I had terrible grammar until junior year, and only because i made the mistake of taking an AP english class, i actually learned proper grammar. So if I need to I can write with mostly good grammar, but it makes me type slow as shit because i am so used to typing like an autist(thanks crpg). I do not think kinds nowadays are less able to learn than any other generation and that it is more of the fault of our culture or society. Now in America its thanks to our opulence and dying nation, and probably won't be fixed until our country dies.
 As for the reading, I believe that if you read "challenging" or at least non "pop" (Read: 50 shades of grey tier) you can at least learn vocabulary or about the topic of the book. The last really challenging (essay?) I read was "The law" by  frederick bastiat. This was about two years ago. Ever since I graduated and started working I've found it harder and harder to read. Ive tried to read books on how to rebuilding engines and transmissions but everytime I start to read I feel an intense boredom. I dont know if its video games or im just lazy but I have definitely stopped reading for education
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Tibe on September 11, 2015, 07:03:57 am
Nah, that's not true. Books, and especially books for very young children that you read to them are very healthy for your brain because you automatically start using your imagination.

Absolutely everything you do influences very young children.

I totally agree sure, at young age its true, books play a positive influence, but at some point most books wont. The reason im even debating is because I dont understand the general logic of books = smarts and imagination. Which, when I look at from my viewpoint is completely fucking false. Books do improve your mind, but only certain books, definately not most of them. My old schools principal couldnt keep repeating that enough. In my class the dumbest prick was somehow also the biggest bookworm. The ones who studied the most obviously got the best grades and the guys who basically got around a lot, had a lot of colorful people as friends, did a lot of different shitty summerjobs etc, had the best minds, that grasped logic with no effort whatsover. And they never read a single book. Now if they would have read a book once in a while, they would have been even smarter.

But they were already smart, because they got around a lot, from very young age and not sitting on their asses at home. Sitting in their moms basements playing CS. Obviously the kids are stupid as fuck these days when they live in basements and only look up facts when they need to win an internetargument. Also its the schoolsystems too. Back in the old days, if the teacher said your child is a prick, the parents respected the teachers word took their child home and wooped his ass. Now, teachers get no respect and the parents automatically shift all the blame on them, so obviously they dont feel the motivation to teach anymore either.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Vibe on September 11, 2015, 08:53:25 am
the guys who basically got around a lot, had a lot of colorful people as friends, did a lot of different shitty summerjobs etc, had the best minds

are you trying to say I should've hanged out with the coloreds visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Prpavi on September 11, 2015, 09:19:24 am
"Kids becoming dumber"

The OP is a prime example of that 
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on September 11, 2015, 10:13:55 am
Absolutely everything you do influences very young children.

I totally agree sure, at young age its true, books play a positive influence, but at some point most books wont. The reason im even debating is because I dont understand the general logic of books = smarts and imagination. Which, when I look at from my viewpoint is completely fucking false. Books do improve your mind, but only certain books, definately not most of them. My old schools principal couldnt keep repeating that enough. In my class the dumbest prick was somehow also the biggest bookworm. The ones who studied the most obviously got the best grades and the guys who basically got around a lot, had a lot of colorful people as friends, did a lot of different shitty summerjobs etc, had the best minds, that grasped logic with no effort whatsover. And they never read a single book. Now if they would have read a book once in a while, they would have been even smarter.


Of course there are always individual examples of people that don't read books but are smarter than people who do. And yeah, of course it makes a difference if the book is written by Markus Heitz or by Hermann Hesse. But reading a halfway good written novel definitely is a good thing to do. I'm surprised myself everytime again I manage to do it again, it just makes you think go check it out.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 11, 2015, 01:02:39 pm
"Kids becoming dumber"

The OP is a prime example of that
Your mother is a prime example.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Prpavi on September 11, 2015, 01:41:50 pm
Your mother is a prime example.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 11, 2015, 05:19:50 pm
Your mother is a prime example.

I really regret now putting so much effort into a Xant thread

meh.


I´ll keep that in mind
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 11, 2015, 05:20:52 pm
I really regret now putting so much effort into a Xant thread

meh.


I´ll keep that in mind
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Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Kafein on September 11, 2015, 05:33:58 pm
Your mother is a prime example.

Incorrect, my mother is 54.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 11, 2015, 05:39:55 pm
Incorrect, my mother is 54.
That's funny, because the prime number I was thinking of when I wrote that was 53.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Kafein on September 11, 2015, 05:42:02 pm
That's funny, because the prime number I was thinking of when I wrote that was 53.

53 is a prime age man. Goes downhill from there.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on September 11, 2015, 06:40:55 pm
Those kids are geniuses compared to us, playing a dead mod.

even the wisest man may fall to satan's sweet lure
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 11, 2015, 06:52:30 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Not mad, but kinda disappointed :/
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 11, 2015, 07:14:29 pm
Not mad, but kinda disappointed :/
It's a hardball world, kid.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Ikarus on September 11, 2015, 07:18:46 pm
It's a hardball world, kid.

I just keep falling for your sexy traps, Xesta
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Tibe on September 11, 2015, 08:19:00 pm
are you trying to say I should've hanged out with the coloreds visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I love you Vibe, dont even change.

My general point was that kids being retards has nothing to do with reading books. Kids just generally dont do shit anymore. They have no developed skillsets and no passion for anything productive. And its becoming serius quite simply because there are so many ways to just pointlessly waste time these days. I mean just look at all that free porn. Its quite impressive.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Panos_ on September 11, 2015, 08:19:48 pm
Xesta is Xant
or
Xant is Xesta?

Now this is a good question...
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Angantyr on September 11, 2015, 08:39:45 pm
There also seems to be a current of anti-intellectualism in modern popular culture. Anyone who've turned on the TV for 5 minutes will know what I mean.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Leshma on September 11, 2015, 08:48:20 pm
Haven't noticed many crap reality shows in Austria, but here in Serbia local television stations went overboard with that crap. It is brain tumor inducing, like people are competing who will be the most ignorant. On average, regular participants of those shows have very, very poor education. Many of them don't have basic abilities, something modern society requires. But they are safe in Serbia, because they don't need that to survive in here. Most popular TV show is property of a known criminal who is so illiterate that he has to sign with X, because he can't read or write. Should I mention that dude is millionaire and major businessman? :mrgreen:

These are scoundrel days.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Xant on September 11, 2015, 08:51:54 pm
There also seems to be a current of anti-intellectualism in modern popular culture. Anyone who've turned on the TV for 5 minutes will know what I mean.
I don't know why anyone with a computer and internet access would even own a TV in this day and age.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Siiem on September 12, 2015, 12:01:40 am
I don't know why anyone with a computer and internet access would even own a TV in this day and age.

I actually agree with this, as TV owner I have used it exactly 4 times in 7 years.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Angantyr on September 12, 2015, 12:25:10 am
Mine has one purpose only; to serve as a bigger monitor for streaming from the internet when my girlfriend comes by. Got it for free some time last year, otherwise I gave my last one away some 10 years ago, though I've lived a few years with another girl who had one and it drove me insane.
Title: Re: Kids becoming dumber
Post by: Kafein on September 12, 2015, 12:49:28 am
though I've lived a few years with another girl who had one and it drove me insane.

Mmh delicious ambiguity