cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Algarn on June 22, 2015, 03:31:30 pm

Title: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Algarn on June 22, 2015, 03:31:30 pm
Just do something about that crap, there are like 8 xbowmen on eu1, with 30 players. Add power draw requirements to crossbows, or do ANYTHING so it doesn't turn into a fucking sniping simulator. People complain a lot about throwing, but I guess being able to camp and fight well in melee plus having a shield and the ability to wear an armor without a lot of penalties is way more game breaking.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Leshma on June 22, 2015, 04:25:01 pm
Ranged classes need nerf, not just crossbows.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 22, 2015, 05:28:48 pm
Do they really hit that hard? I rarely seem to be bothered with ranged while playing.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Leshma on June 22, 2015, 05:44:57 pm
Depends how you look at things. I've been playing a shielder for far too long and still been bothered by ranged. Now I want to go back to my 2H and expected this patch to go into more melee-oriented direction, but sadly they didn't nerf ranged actually it is buffed a little bit.

It is all about perspective actually. If you're Kremlite who gets enjoyment from, well I dunno (not a Kremlite, so unable to understand), then you'll be fine with whatever balance is currently. For someone who actually desired that after 4 or 6 months of strong ranged, we'll go back to "broken" ranged where they did laughable damage and carrying shield wasn't necessary, changes aren't really up to expectations.

If they decide time has come for fully melee oriented gameplay, then I'll be up for some more cRPG. But currently, that's not the case and I've been playing for long time without quality break. This patch was a crossroad for me, to go on a break if things aren't how I want them to be.

tl;dr If you like to shoot people in cRPG, this patch is fine I guess. Nothing epic, because it can always be better for you (one shot kills etc). But if you're after melee gameplay, you won't be pleased with the way this patch turned out because is still reasonably strong, enough to piss you off at times and lower enjoyment you get from playing the mod.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Algarn on June 22, 2015, 05:50:27 pm
It's not only about hitting hard, it's about having a crap load of options, that ends into something 200% OP. Two simple builds, level 35 (which means that you can try them on your stf):


Strength:21-
Agility:21-
One Handed:82-
Crossbow:151-

Weapon Master:7-
Athletics:7-
Iron Flesh:7-
Shield:4-
Power Strike:7-

On this one, you can put 7 shield and 4 IF instead, it's up to you. Note that you can remove IF for more agi/str and get more PS or athl/wm. Keep in mind this is a level 35 build, and the level 37 counterparts are broken.

You can also abuse of the 0 slot bolts, and be a ranged player while being extremely potent with a melee weapon.

Attribute points:0
Strength:24-
Agility:21-

Two Handed:140-
Crossbow:103-

Weapon Master:7-
Athletics:7-
Iron Flesh:4-
Power Strike:8-

Another level 35 build. Over powered with loomed items, considering you can be really accurate in the range of 20/30 meters, and kill someone in 2 melee hits, while not being penalized by wearing an armor. As I said earlier, just try to guess how op it is on level 37.

The problem is xbows are a jack of all trades, they are point and click, don't require PD, nor skill from the user. They are accurate at 150wpf, and they are quite nice already around 100/120 wpf in you are close of melee fights. As they don't require PD, you get more PS, shield, IF, athl, or whatever, and you get enough wpf to wreck shit in melee.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gurnisson on June 22, 2015, 09:22:23 pm
Imo, out of the 3 ranged classes, crossbows are the least deserving of a nerf.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Ikarus on June 23, 2015, 12:58:48 am
still, due to the ammo nerf, you run out of bolts really quickly nowadays. Even with Arbalest, +3 bolts and careful aiming I often find myself switching to melee and scavenging for bolts

rather nerf throwing, 80% of throws I receive end in headshots. These hitboxes...

In fact, I wouldn´t mind a general range nerf
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 23, 2015, 05:04:44 pm
I find crossbows hard to do well with, and i dont get killed by them often enough to consider them op. Archery is slightly easier, still not OP strong. Throwing is quite annoying to fight against, but for the ammo they get, they really arent dealing that much damage.

Dont nerf ranged plx, in a recent patch they were so useless i wouldnt even bother putting up my shield and i would run in a straight line towards most ranged because they dont do shit anyways. Id rather have to consider them a threat, and actually adapt, compared to having basically a melee only server, where the team with less people choosing to play shitty ranged classes wins (this still is actually a thing, unless you are really good at ranged, you wont really make much impact from my experience)
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Leshma on June 23, 2015, 05:31:04 pm
Don't worry. If they wanted to nerf ranged, could it this patch. Devs obviously have no such intentions. Also, xbow was definitely buffed, not sure by how much, but I used to survive headshots, it isn't possible anymore. Good thing, people play siege because battle exp is broken and on siege ranged is mostly useless. At least they played siege yesterday, right now competetive modes seem deserted. Will liven up in few hours I hope. Ranged buff or not, patch or not, cRPG has become four hour mod, game where which is decent populated only for few hours in the evening and night.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Palurgee on June 24, 2015, 04:01:23 am
I think ranged is just becoming more obvious and more annoying/"powerful" because of the lower server populations
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Doom_Carrot on June 24, 2015, 09:43:13 pm
Just do something about that crap, there are like 8 xbowmen on eu1, with 30 players. Add power draw requirements to crossbows, or do ANYTHING so it doesn't turn into a fucking sniping simulator. People complain a lot about throwing, but I guess being able to camp and fight well in melee plus having a shield and the ability to wear an armor without a lot of penalties is way more game breaking.
Carry a shield. Problem solved.

Its annoying when 2h spammers complain "Waaaa arrows kill me waaaa they must be unfair..." No. Thats kinda what ranged is for. Its MEANT to be good against 2h spammers. Like I said, wear some armor or carry a shield. Arrows are literally freakin straws in this game lol.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Algarn on June 24, 2015, 10:55:18 pm
Its annoying when 2h spammers complain "Waaaa arrows kill me waaaa they must be unfair..."
Its annoying when 2h spammers complain
2h spammers

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I'm none of both. And if you look a bit further, you'd learn I've played ranged classes for years, and I regret that now literally everyone is going ranged. This is just not fun when like a third of players in the whole server are ranged. I made the choice to stop being archer for this reason, and I really hate having to do that because of people who are like "OH, ITS KEWL TO PEW PEW ON EU1 XDDDDDDD". You're NA, and you don't know what's happening on EU servers obviously.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Leshma on June 25, 2015, 12:03:38 am
Actually, at one point today 90% of server had ranged weapons (many, many hybrid throwers). That didn't stop my pure 2H warrior to finish map first with 5:1 kd ratio, way above anyone else but must say that playing on server with so many ranged isn't enjoyable experience, despite getting many points and kills.

There is something wrong in treating this game as ranged sim, which is what most players seem to do these days.

Sadly, the way classes work in this game the one which makes most sense (shielder) has sub-par mechanic and many disadvantages placed artificially to get shielders in check and stop them from dominating. That is why so many people play 2H/polearms, no one wants to play limited class. And others as their way of protesting against numerous 2H heroes, pick ranged classes.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Algarn on June 25, 2015, 12:20:35 am
Shielders are fine. There are plenty of really good one handed swords/maces/axes, and the shield bashes are broken. But having lots of ranged players is really bad for the game.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Doom_Carrot on June 25, 2015, 03:36:48 am
Shielders are fine. There are plenty of really good one handed swords/maces/axes, and the shield bashes are broken. But having lots of ranged players is really bad for the game.

Shielders really suck sometimes actually. As I am one with like 7 in shield skill, I can assure you a typical spammer will dominate my ass due to massive reach, crushthroughs with many weapons, and being able to one hit me if I make a little mistake. However I still play it (1) because its fun, and (2) because I like blocking archers then headshotting them with a javelin.

However, I do agree LOTS of ranged gets really annoying with archer faqqotry when they surround you and run away/pew pew from all directions. But that really applies to anything. Too much cav is stupid, too much throwing, too many 1h ninjas, too many 2h hammer weilding juggernauts, you get the point.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Ikarus on June 25, 2015, 09:16:37 pm
Why did they put down EU4 on the first place? A non-ranged server was such a nice place to go
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Molly on June 26, 2015, 12:06:40 am
Why did they put down EU4 on the first place? A non-ranged server was such a nice place to go
...cuz it was empty all day, all week :lol:
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: La Makina on September 09, 2015, 09:47:59 pm
Found it! Yes. Nerf xbows.  :evil:

I cannot stand being shot by bolt chopping off 70-85% HP (if not one shot) by a guy standing still in his corner. Heavy crossbows with steel bolts do 82 pierce, seriously. 2H does twice less with cut damage. And save the arbalest, loomed stuff...

I have tried playing with a crossbow to make up my mind. It is too easy to use. Even with 1 WPF it is usable.

Honestly archers and throwers do need skills to make something. Crossbows require little skill and are way too powerful. The upkeep is a bit higher than average but nothing prohibitive.

Obviously the only thing that does not make them used by all is their boredom factor.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 09, 2015, 10:26:35 pm
Found it! Yes. Nerf xbows.  :evil:

I cannot stand being shot by bolt chopping off 70-85% HP (if not one shot) by a guy standing still in his corner. Heavy crossbows with steel bolts do 82 pierce, seriously. 2H does twice less with cut damage. And save the arbalest, loomed stuff...

I have tried playing with a crossbow to make up my mind. It is too easy to use. Even with 1 WPF it is usable.

Honestly archers and throwers do need skills to make something. Crossbows require little skill and are way too powerful. The upkeep is a bit higher than average but nothing prohibitive.

Obviously the only thing that does not make them used by all is their boredom factor.

Quite clearly you have no idea what you are talking; about I'll start with the highlighted statement:
The reason heavy crossbow's stats with steel bolts is 82 is simple. it is not effected by any other stat (other than hit capsule penalties which reduce damage dealt). Where as melee not only has a multiplier on individual hit capsules that register with the body when you land a hit it also gets increased by 8% more damage per power strike level so even the cheapest of weapons are very capable of out damaging most if not all range weapons put in the right hands with the right build.I have the show damage feature and my +3 arbalest with +3 steel bolts often times barely accomplish 30 damage unless lightly armored agility build then upwards of 50.  Also fair to note that almost every hit with a Heavy Great sword gives me about 70 cut damage. Which is well over double what the Loomed arbalest does on average.

To me it sounds like you played maybe 30 minutes... got between 1 to 10 kills with it just to satisfy your false reality that you've created. Because of this I'm wasting my time by trying to explain it to you when you already "know the facts" which is easy mode nerf pls cuz its 3 effective. Don't worry we are all guilty of this.

Archers are currently more accurate if timed properly than crossbows. Throwing has roughly the same ammo; more ammo to pick up and no reload time and deals an annoyingly high level of damage.

The only reason you don't see everyone using the heavy or arbalest is not everyone likes to take a range weapon shoot it once or twice and drop it because its no longer viable because its just weighting them down in melee and takes to long to reload.

The only way a bolt would take 70-85% of your HP in 1 shot is if you are a high agility build in low armor with minimal ironflesh; or a well placed head-shot while wearing full plate.

Most of the time it takes me 1-4 sometimes even 5 shots to bring down any given player from full hp.(Note this is 50% of my ammo and it takes me roughly 11 seconds to reload.) If someone can't stop me from reloading for a total of 55 seconds then their team is obviously already making mistakes. THIS right here is why arbalest is not a viable option in the battle servers with low population. You can only shoot once maybe twice... which IF you are lucky might kill one person.

You should collect some actual facts about the class before getting frustrated and wishing for the class to be nerfed; the only real problem with crossbow currently is being used as a side arm rather than a primary weapon, pure builds have few benefits (arguably no benefits) over hybrids.

Everything in this game requires skill to use properly and effectively. Any nooblet can pick up a 2 hand and spam it and get a few kills just like any nooblet can pick up any item and use it ineffectively and still manage to kill a few people.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Ikarus on September 10, 2015, 12:42:11 am
I wish I could give you more than just one +, that´s one of the best explanations of the xbow-class (and the current problem with xbows) I´ve seen in a while

Quote
...THIS right here is why arbalest is not a viable option in the battle servers with low population. You can only shoot once maybe twice... which IF you are lucky might kill one person.
that´s why I switch to 1h/practice shield when polupation is low, arbalest is a weapon for battles with 20+ population. The bigger the population on a server, the longer a round lasts, the more shots you can fire. With 20-, you´re more useful without slow xbows since the rounds are pretty short and you turn out to be more effective if you just run with your team and help it in melee.

Quote
...the only real problem with crossbow currently is being used as a side arm rather than a primary weapon, pure builds have few benefits (arguably no benefits) over hybrids.
somebody take this quote, put a frame around it and put it at the top of a sticky thread, thank you. The worst example for those hybrids is currently a tincan str build with maul/heavy xbow/wooden bolts. Quite a successful no brainer build.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Shemaforash on September 10, 2015, 01:01:23 am
"nerf rangedvisitors can't see pics , please register or login
"
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on September 10, 2015, 10:59:26 am


You should collect some actual facts about the class before getting frustrated and wishing for the class to be nerfed; the only real problem with crossbow currently is being used as a side arm rather than a primary weapon, pure builds have few benefits (arguably no benefits) over hybrids.

And this problem arose because bolt was made 0 slot


The problem of crossbow is not so much the damage but the fact that everzone picked it up and now the first team to charge lose so everzone camps and shoots.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: La Makina on September 10, 2015, 02:10:55 pm
Arbalest +3 with Steel bolts +3 is 100 (one hundred) pierce damage... Putting on heavy gear and beefing up IF does not change anything
There is no comparable way to do 80-100 pierce damages melee weapon.

I am not very good at this game, I rarely reach the top of the table score, and I quite don't care. I played with crossbow to make my opinion before judging (appreciate the diligence). I could have a K>D ratio with not too much because xbow is about camping.

I am not advocating a full damage nerf though. Crossbows should play their role of tincan opener after all. A reasonable bit with like normal bolts at 6 Cut and steel bolts at 1 Pierce (like bodkin arrows). I would see a higher upkeep (more frequent and more expensive, these are fragile toys), higher weight, unsheathable feature for the bigger ones.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gurnisson on September 10, 2015, 04:11:58 pm
You have no idea what you're talking about
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on September 10, 2015, 05:36:13 pm
A crossbow isn't more fragile than a bow, and they are generally easier to "sheathe" as you can just get like a shoulder sling whereas bows are a bit more annoying(i dont know if you've ever tried to wear one like they do ingame, very annoying to move around in lol.


But w/e, I like crossbows how they are. With enough effort and placement I can go like 10:0 on NA1 but I mean that takes a lot of effort and luck to do. If they do end up getting nerfed please give me a free respec for my level 37 crossbowman
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: F i n on September 10, 2015, 05:51:30 pm
If anything, Horses need a HP Buff.

Lance - Cav needs a bigger angle of operation.

Horses that stand still need a higher turn rate.


No wonder the mice are dancing since the cat is a crippled old hag!
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gryph_Hawkshade on September 10, 2015, 07:26:11 pm
The only way I can kill Rohypnol is with a xbow. That mofuker blocks everything and crushes thru everything.

I like to think of the xbow as an equalizer... a baseball bat in the hands of a small kid that gets picked on by a bigger bully.

Dont nerf it... make it go through people with low enough armor an hit others, let it explode and deal Area damage... Let it spew fountains of blood forth upon the battlefield... JUST ... Dont ... NERF... iT!
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Jona on September 10, 2015, 07:50:05 pm
Dont nerf it... make it go through people with low enough armor an hit others, let it explode and deal Area damage... Let it spew fountains of blood forth upon the battlefield... JUST ... Dont ... NERF... iT!

They don't need a nerf, they just need to be made less accessible.

If anything, Horses need a HP Buff.

While horses are fragile af when it comes taking ranged hits, some of them can seem pretty beefy when getting repeatedly stabbed or slashed with melee weapons. If I don't kill a horse with my first stab that rears it, rarely will I be able to down it before it rides off, even if I get another 1-2 hits on it (360-degree blocking may have some effect on this). Without the full-on-charging speed bonus of a cav speeding into my pokey polearm, melee damage does a fair amount of damage to cav, imo (fair as in balanced, not fair as in "a good amount"). If cav gets hit while charging head-on, well they deserve it since it is a high-risk high-reward scenario. If cav didn't die in 2-3 bolts/arrows, they would seem far more tanky than they are. There really just needs to be a ranged damage penalty against cav, and throwing weapons like lances that currently have bonus vs cav should instead just not have a penalty. 
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 10, 2015, 09:55:40 pm
Arbalest +3 with Steel bolts +3 is 100 (one hundred) pierce damage... Putting on heavy gear and beefing up IF does not change anything
There is no comparable way to do 80-100 pierce damages melee weapon.

I am not very good at this game, I rarely reach the top of the table score, and I quite don't care. I played with crossbow to make my opinion before judging (appreciate the diligence). I could have a K>D ratio with not too much because xbow is about camping.

I am not advocating a full damage nerf though. Crossbows should play their role of tincan opener after all. A reasonable bit with like normal bolts at 6 Cut and steel bolts at 1 Pierce (like bodkin arrows). I would see a higher upkeep (more frequent and more expensive, these are fragile toys), higher weight, unsheathable feature for the bigger ones.

Again the reason the +3 arbalest and +3 steel bolts are 100 pierce damage is because it is not effected by any other stat unlike every other weapon/item in this game. I'll try to make this as simple as possible for you to understand; the damage says its potential is 100; however it is a dirty lie... The most damage I've ever recorded was 204 p damage registered headshot to some peasant. Head shots are the only way this weapon can accomplish the magical stated damage. Otherwise It averages roughly 25-30 damage which is achievable by all melee weapons.

And this problem arose because bolt was made 0 slot


The problem of crossbow is not so much the damage but the fact that everzone picked it up and now the first team to charge lose so everzone camps and shoots.

The easiest way to reverse this change is simply making Arbalest, Heavy Crossbow, and maybe even Crossbow 3 slots; and make Steel bolts 0 slots as well. People would be forced to take a 0-1 slot side arm rather than the current meta of a 2 slot great sword with a 2 slot crossbow and a 0 slot bolt.

If horses need anything it is a nerf to throwing damage and maybe accuracy debuff on bows/xbows.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Panos_ on September 10, 2015, 10:00:32 pm
Just add a power draw requirement for crossbows aswell, it`s the only ranged class that doesnt have a similar requirement.

Having to go against shielders who can spam a pick or a military hammer after they shoot you to pieces is really annoying.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 10, 2015, 10:07:22 pm
Just add a power draw requirement for crossbows aswell, it`s the only ranged class that doesnt have a similar requirement.

Having to go against shielders who can spam a pick or a military hammer after they shoot you to pieces is really annoying.

Make PD effect the damage of the xbow don't make it a requirement; because of this, nerf damage of xbows by about 47% forcing people to put PD into their build so they can be effective but everyone would still be able to pick up an xbow off the ground and shoot it but it would do next to no damage. (seeing as even with a +3 arb/sb the average is 30 p damage.) with a 47% nerf to raw damage it would be more like 11-15 p damage. (without any investment)
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: xxkaliboyx on September 10, 2015, 10:28:38 pm
I remember we tried this once before but there was some type of limitations on xbows because it is a native warband code. I can't remember exactly what it was but it made it pretty hard to nerf xbows if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Jambi on September 11, 2015, 09:33:18 pm
I dont think horse should be buffed, I dont know if xbowers should be nerfed, i dont know if anything should be nerfed buffed atm.

But yes, Algarn is right. But i think everyone is right that is complaining about something due to recent changes

When you add weight to arrows/bolts.. in order to reduce ranged kiting to a degree where agi for ath becomes pointless... then it is not strange that archers will switch to higher str builds, and thus do more dmg, or switch to Xbow characters. Xbowers always been very strong, there simply many more of them then before.
The item/class balance is so scrambled at this point, it seems like every class has issue's at this moment.. while in the past it was only maybe 1 or 2 that needed some tinkering at a time

Alot of people simply got the trend to switch characters for each map. horse on horsemaps.. xbowers on building maps etc etc... nothing new. Just a bunch of peeps playing a game for years, having alot of diffrent chars.

Nerfing or buffing 1 thing at a time, causes major unbalance.. always.

If anything, Horses need a HP Buff.

More Hp? Nah, lets give them a 3rd.. or maybe 4th extra live. So when they finally get dehorsed by running into ranged, and finished crying about it. They will have to walk on foot, and their autism doesnt coop well with that... so their horse comes to the rescue... in the form of a spirithorse. So the rider can step back on and continue to 1-2 shot players, and if they are stupid enough to yet agian run into ranged and get dehorsed, there horse will be gone. So they are on foot now, as an effective shielder / 2 hander. If they get killed, they simply get resurrected again... due to the fact that the class has to spend a few points in riding skill... thus unfair. And cry / rage worthy, to get other classes nerfed and theirs buffed  :P

I dont know why im typing in my favorite colour... i thought it was against the rules.. but i guess not!
(click to show/hide)
Everyone pick a colour, some rainbow pride on the crpg forums! Perhaps more colours will widen the spectrum of the black and white thinking balancers!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on September 11, 2015, 10:07:24 pm
Make bolts 1 slot again and we will see a lot less crossbowmen around.


Also please never make crossbows require power draw. Not only does it make LITERALLY no sense, I'd probably just quit playing this mod at that point because of how retarded that would be. The point of crossbows has always been a weapon that can be used with minimal training. It fills that roll. Even with a MW Arb/Steel bolts and 140 wpf in crossbow I still take 5+ seconds to reload and the accuracy isn't that great compared to like Jarids/Throwing Lances which are basically sniper rifles.

If anything needs a fucking nerf its rock throwers
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 11, 2015, 11:19:05 pm
I dont know why im typing in my favorite colour... i thought it was against the rules.. but i guess not!
(click to show/hide)
Everyone pick a colour, some rainbow pride on the crpg forums! Perhaps more colours will widen the spectrum of the black and white thinking balancers!

The actual reason I type in purple has nothing to do with my favorite color or whatever you think I'm trying to do. It is really as simple as TurmoilTom and I, once upon years ago decided to start forum posting in color; I just simply never stopped and If it upsets you that is just an added bonus.

Tristran it does make *some* sense because I never once said crossbows would "require" power draw and every crossbow is made slightly different, realistically speaking. Not to mention no other class is based on realism so why this one? Basically anyone could still use them but there would be an actual difference between no investment and investment. Even WPF is arguably not really necessary. Even with 1 wpf you can make shots accurate enough to be considered reliable.

Making bolts 1 slot again would fix nothing because then bolts would just have no value over steel bolts. However if you made steel bolts 0 slot and bolts 0 slot add ammo to bolts (Like in the past) and make the heavier crossbows 3 slots it would fix all the problems.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Jambi on September 11, 2015, 11:27:57 pm
The actual reason I type in purple has nothing to do with my favorite color or whatever you think I'm trying to do. It is really as simple as TurmoilTom and I, once upon years ago decided to start forum posting in color; I just simply never stopped and If it upsets you that is just an added bonus.

Oh you misunderstood me, im not upset at all... sorry to dissapoint you, not sure what i did to upset you in order for you to think its a "bonus" somehow... I dont understand why someone would find it a bonus to upset someone.
Im happy actually for you, and happy Im able to type in my favorite colour! Seems like i misunderstood the rules.

Perhaps if more users start using colours it will lighten up you're mood, as well as that of others!

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Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Schoi on September 12, 2015, 12:35:32 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Okay here you go, a nerf crossbow.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 12, 2015, 07:27:49 pm
Imo, out of the 3 ranged classes, crossbows are the least deserving of a nerf.

You are kidding right? Full melee build 1h, 2h... Whatever the fuck you want to use plus the ability to 1 shot someone across the map, it's pretty lame. Also make them where not just any random can pick one up and shoot it, that is also bullshit. If you can't pick up throwing weapons or ride a horse with no skill in it, why pick up a 1 shot xbow and get lucky with it...
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on September 12, 2015, 07:29:43 pm
You are kidding right? Full melee build 1h, 2h... Whatever the fuck you want to use plus the ability to 1 shot someone across the map, it's pretty lame. Also make them where not just any random can pick one up and shoot it, that is also bullshit. If you can't pick up throwing weapons or ride a horse with no skill in it, why pick up a 1 shot xbow and get lucky with it...
When are you oneshotting people with any crossbow? I dont even one hit you with a headshot
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gurnisson on September 12, 2015, 08:10:28 pm
You are kidding right? Full melee build 1h, 2h... Whatever the fuck you want to use plus the ability to 1 shot someone across the map, it's pretty lame. Also make them where not just any random can pick one up and shoot it, that is also bullshit. If you can't pick up throwing weapons or ride a horse with no skill in it, why pick up a 1 shot xbow and get lucky with it...

Shot by crossbow in-game => rage-post on forums
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 12, 2015, 08:45:40 pm
When are you oneshotting people with any crossbow? I dont even one hit you with a headshot

Not a valid point.. I get shot in the head by an arbalest and im dead, guarantee you that and im one of the stronger ones. It is not to mention all the people in medium/light armor that xbows are completely screwing over. So don't base that off of shooting just me or whatever you are trying to do because I do get 1 shot. It just depends by which xbow and that is the only thing that can one shot, in which require no skill... OP

Shot by crossbow in-game => rage-post on forums

What point is this trying to say? You don't have much of an argument to my last post... I have played an xbower and it is extremely easy/lame. The ability to fight with any weapon now that you got these 0 slot bolts is a bit of a joke. Xbow has been the most OP shit for a long time now. I get high kdrs on everything I play and I can tell you xbow hybrid is at the top, mainly for the free laser shot kills across the map before people come up to me only for me to drop the bow and kill them easily that way also and when there is no other ranged class that is even comparable to how you can fight in melee with an xbow hybrid. You can 135 and 155 wpf or something like that, what a joke.. I can go on and on how broken and not balanced it is comparable to other builds of ranged classes. Hide behind a tree, reload, shoot archer dead.. Rinse repeat until someone tries to melee and whoop their ass too easily. HrM....
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gurnisson on September 12, 2015, 10:38:11 pm
I don't play crossbowman and I dislike getting shot/targeted by them when I play. However, in my opinion it's throwers > archers > xbows

If xbow is so easy to play for you, good for you. It doesn't necessarily mean it's better than the other ranged classes, maybe you're bad at archery/throwing.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Rando on September 12, 2015, 10:40:03 pm
Was there a crossbowmen renaissance while I was away? Last time I was playing often I recall that the problem was still troll throwers/agiwhores, not crossbows.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: njames89 on September 13, 2015, 01:47:20 am
As a devout 2h/Xbow I must seriously say to you all....

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 13, 2015, 06:38:51 am
I don't play crossbowman and I dislike getting shot/targeted by them when I play. However, in my opinion it's throwers > archers > xbows

If xbow is so easy to play for you, good for you. It doesn't necessarily mean it's better than the other ranged classes, maybe you're bad at archery/throwing.

No, matter of fact im good at all of those builds... you putting throwers above the two is rather trollish and I know it is just your opinion but yeah, no. Throwers have to risk themselves and run out of throwing weapons rather fast and then what? Can't fight for shit unless they are some crappy hybrid that does minimal damage, they then are not really much of a thrower... Now archers just simply can't fight for shit anyway. Now Xbowers can do all of the fucking above, and then some. Did you really think about your opinion? because it is a WILD one. Your list is honestly completely backwards. Also when you play in strat it is even more of a pain in the ass, defenders all grabbing arbs that they should not be able to use because no skill in it and killing people 1 shotting them, not all the time but does happen. Should they also let people be able to pick up bows and throwing weapons and use those two? Nah

I can guarantee you that all of us would rather go 5 v 5 against a bunch of throwers or archers over xbow hybrid/whatever weapon they want to use build.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Gurnisson on September 13, 2015, 10:37:48 am
Can't fight for shit unless they are some crappy hybrid that does minimal damage, they then are not really much of a thrower...

Need more xbow wpf to be a good crossbowman than you need to be a good thrower, and as a thrower the best throwing weapon is also the best melee weapon. You can even change immediately between throwing mode and melee mode, giving you loads of free (high-damaging) hits.

Also when you play in strat it is even more of a pain in the ass, defenders all grabbing arbs that they should not be able to use because no skill in it and killing people 1 shotting them, not all the time but does happen. Should they also let people be able to pick up bows and throwing weapons and use those two? Nah

I can see how that is frustrating (though they don't one-shot), but strat is dead.

I can guarantee you that all of us would rather go 5 v 5 against a bunch of throwers or archers over xbow hybrid/whatever weapon they want to use build.

Not a chance, I'd take the xbows unless they're holding some sort of fort.

Against 5 archers => kited and dead
Against 5 throwers => kited and dead
Against 5 xbows => pray that they miss their bolt and then they're just a shittier melee build with a worse weapon. They won't be able to reload
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: BlackxBird on September 13, 2015, 03:04:56 pm
I guess (only my opinion) what makes players gettin really annoied is to be chanceless. Thats why everybody hates throwers. If they focus u, they will kill you. U have no chance to kill them cuz they will be way faster. If ure a tryhard killing 2-5 players a round and u get for example dismounted by a gay hiding in bush with his xbow (kinda all hs of my arabian end in a dismount...) and then that crossbow is running away, a thrower appears and does shoot and run. It is the:"what could I have done" question. The answer will be allways: if the enemy does good as ranged, you are chanceless. No matter if thrower archer or crossbow.

But, what I would appreciate to see, is that those long range shots are harder to do. I really play rarely ranged, but seeing myself being able to kill horses from kinda every spot on the map makes me sad.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: matt2507 on September 13, 2015, 07:11:22 pm
The point of crossbows has always been a weapon that can be used with minimal training.

But they still require a training. Saying that a crossbow can be used by everyone is like saying today everyone can use a gun or a rifle without or with a minimal training, this is true and false at the same time.

Yes you can use it without training but only if you want to make a shoot above 25m (and with some luck). Try to make a shoot at 90/100m and see how your shoot gonna fail.

If we keep your idea, everyone can also take a bow and make a 10/20m shoot without training. Or everyone can take a sword and can kill someone. If we follow what you say, we can remove all the requirement already in game because they have no sense.

Requirements are not here for realism, they are here for the gameplay and for the game balance.

If you want to talk about realism, we can discuss about the bolt who stay loaded when you have your xbow on back (the bolt should drop on ground, xbow didn't have attach for loaded bolts) or we can talk about the real reloading speed because historically, a good xbower can make, in good condition, 4 or 5 shoots per minutes (and when I say a good xbower, I mean a good trained one, see wikipedia for references)...
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Grumbs on September 13, 2015, 08:32:49 pm
Just nerf ranged in general. The game went from mildly fun to a boring rangefest again. Even if you are meleeing the game feels so glitchy with models sliding through each other and stuff. The fun factor is pretty absent atm, need a good patch to set it right again
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: BlackxBird on September 13, 2015, 10:39:43 pm
is like saying today everyone can use a gun or a rifle without or with a minimal training

#Murrica?
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: ROHYPNOL on September 13, 2015, 11:47:29 pm
Need more xbow wpf to be a good crossbowman than you need to be a good thrower, and as a thrower the best throwing weapon is also the best melee weapon. You can even change immediately between throwing mode and melee mode, giving you loads of free (high-damaging) hits.

I can see how that is frustrating (though they don't one-shot), but strat is dead.

Not a chance, I'd take the xbows unless they're holding some sort of fort.

Against 5 archers => kited and dead
Against 5 throwers => kited and dead
Against 5 xbows => pray that they miss their bolt and then they're just a shittier melee build with a worse weapon. They won't be able to reload

Ok so archers and throwers i got a shield with 8 or 9 shield skill chased them around and kill them. Well xbowers either 1 shot me when I didn't have the shield up or when I got to them they were much stronger than I was at melee, even though I would whoop their ass still just becuase im generally the better player, it is not the normal case for the average person. This is the reason everything needs to be fixed not just xbows. I would like to make this game fun again and a lot of ignorant ideas to balance in this community by ignorant people approving them is ruining and have ruined it for the most part.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Turkhammer on September 14, 2015, 12:23:25 am
#Murrica?

Fuck Yeah!
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Turkhammer on September 14, 2015, 12:27:11 am


Requirements are not here for realism, they are here for the gameplay and for the game balance.



Maybe that's the problem.  Maybe it's a misconception that everyone has to be a hero and have an equal chance 1v1.  Maybe the mod is too balanced. 
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: BlackxBird on September 14, 2015, 12:27:45 am
Maybe that's the problem.  Maybe it's a misconception that everyone has to be a hero and have an equal chance 1v1.  Maybe the mod is too balanced.

go play mercenaries or native if you don't want balance.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Shemaforash on September 14, 2015, 02:41:41 am
go play mercenaries or native if you don't want balance.

This is what bad players say after they get destroyed.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: BlackxBird on September 14, 2015, 04:02:52 am
I was never really like a great dueler, not mounted, neither on foot. I was never really good as a ranged, but I fucking rocked teamfights :3 That's the reason why I loved cRPG :3 In merc u don't find teamfights. And I left native cuz the community there was weird. After my first clan I never really met cool ppl there so I simply stopped and only played cRPG.

oh and shema, really.. I remember u playing cav in Merc. U wanna tell me it was not op and extremely unbalanced? :D Haven't noticed u as archer there, but damn, they made them so fucking op...
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Mr.K. on September 14, 2015, 02:05:35 pm
Against 5 archers => kited and dead
Against 5 throwers => kited and dead
Against 5 xbows => pray that they miss their bolt and then they're just a shittier melee build with a worse weapon. They won't be able to reload

You got archer and xbow backwards. Archers can't kite (try to make a 9 or 10PD build with any athletics). Xbows can kite - almost all of them as xbow requires mostly agility, not strength.

Currently all ranged is overpowered, archery being by far the strongest in terms of DPS and xbow arguably the weakest. Still I find xbows to be the lamest of the bunch due to the fact that they can have 9-10 athletics or a shield. Xbows don't really need to be nerfed, just give them some sort of requirement to slow them down a bit and then buff cavalry - the natural counter for any ranged.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on September 14, 2015, 02:24:20 pm
Pretty sure I suggested making the bigger crossbows 3 slot like a year ago...

Anyway I'd do that. Throwing and archery have their own problems so comparisons seem pointless.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 14, 2015, 07:15:08 pm
You got archer and xbow backwards. Archers can't kite (try to make a 9 or 10PD build with any athletics). Xbows can kite - almost all of them as xbow requires mostly agility, not strength.

Currently all ranged is overpowered, archery being by far the strongest in terms of DPS and xbow arguably the weakest. Still I find xbows to be the lamest of the bunch due to the fact that they can have 9-10 athletics or a shield. Xbows don't really need to be nerfed, just give them some sort of requirement to slow them down a bit and then buff cavalry - the natural counter for any ranged.

xbows can only kite away but if you stay on them they won't be able to reload.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Mr.K. on September 14, 2015, 08:45:41 pm
xbows can only kite away but if you stay on them they won't be able to reload.

Then you have not seen Akbar and Veselov on EU1. They are the cRPG equivalent of Forrest Gump - if it wasn't for the fact that instead of just being adorable, they shoot you in the face.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 14, 2015, 11:05:23 pm
Then you have not seen Akbar and Veselov on EU1. They are the cRPG equivalent of Forrest Gump - if it wasn't for the fact that instead of just being adorable, they shoot you in the face.

then they must be in super light armor which equals easy kills for good range players.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: MURDERTRON on September 15, 2015, 06:15:13 am
xbows can only kite away but if you stay on them they won't be able to reload.

CHINASERF1 and CHINASERF2 say otherwise.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on September 15, 2015, 06:41:13 am
CHINASERF1 and CHINASERF2 say otherwise.

Everything is different when there are two people working closely together this is a fact for all classes. Everything becomes more possible. As a lone melee player has the choice to chase one of them not both. they can split up allowing one to reload that is kiting but that is also teamwork or simply just delay one in melee long enough to let the other person to reload. Simple teamwork goes a long way. A lone higher tier xbower can not kite reliably.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: StonedSteel on September 15, 2015, 06:19:24 pm
fuck ur "facts" just give me name change and we're cool
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: saccizord on November 04, 2015, 08:48:35 pm
Damn, this thread is from June, but it's still so current. Nowadays NA 1 is a xbow fest
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 05, 2015, 12:52:04 am
Here's my suggestion(after 22 gens as an xbower): Make Steel Bolts 1 slot again, nerf damage of regular bolts, and make the crossbow 2 slot. Increase the weight of arb/heavy xbow but give them a slight damage buff and also make them slightly more inaccurate to encourage more WPF dump into them.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Ikarus on November 05, 2015, 04:47:50 am
xbow isn´t that op anymore, it´s just the problem that too many people play it atm

or do you seriously get most your kills with xbows? It´s rather a weapon to annoy cav, other ranged and inf

if you´re fed up with xbow, try a shield/throw build with a lot of agi. Nothing more annoying than some random dude who won´t let you reload, but you also can´t fetch him in melee since he´s too fast. And since xbows and bolts got heavier, they even got slower.

Enjoy the xbow hunt
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Nightingale on November 05, 2015, 05:41:57 am
Here's my suggestion(after 22 gens as an xbower): Make Steel Bolts 1 slot again, nerf damage of regular bolts, and make the crossbow 2 slot. Increase the weight of arb/heavy xbow but give them a slight damage buff and also make them slightly more inaccurate to encourage more WPF dump into them.

I have to say I pretty much disagree with everything you just said except make them more inaccurate and encourage more WPF investment.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 05, 2015, 07:05:38 am
I have to say I pretty much disagree with everything you just said except make them more inaccurate and encourage more WPF investment.

If you spit out enough ideas ones bound to be good  :D
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Visconti on December 22, 2015, 06:50:41 am
Ranged definitely needs a nerf, the mods pretty much dead and most of the players i know have quit in large part because of all the agi crossbows/archers who can run like cheetahs/ nudge away anyone who gets close.

I dont know how, but something needs to change or cRPG is doomed.
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Ikarus on December 22, 2015, 09:14:02 am
...agi crossbows...who can run like cheetahs...
only if they´re carrying a normal crossbow or lighter crossbows and then they wouldn´t be a threat  :lol: crossbows aren´t fast runners (anymore), unless they drop their xbow
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Grumbs on December 22, 2015, 10:49:46 am
As always, xbowers are way too versatile for very little skill point investment. Beating a dead horse, but they can be good in melee, do decent ranged damage and kite.

Throwers are probably the main problem with cRPG atm, but its like singling out bad eggs in a pile of bad eggs. Whole mod is pretty shitty atm, can't even do melee without the server pooping its pants and its a ranged fest due to bad balancing
Title: Re: Nerf crossbows.
Post by: Visconti on December 24, 2015, 05:54:41 am
only if they´re carrying a normal crossbow or lighter crossbows and then they wouldn´t be a threat  :lol: crossbows aren´t fast runners (anymore), unless they drop their xbow

Idk what they are carrying but one shot from them is good for half my hp. it wouldnt be very hard to get a heavy xbow with light armor and high agi to run fast...

And i think this is one BIG bad egg too, im sure alot of players would return if it wasnt such a ranged fest.