cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Leshma on April 22, 2015, 11:10:28 pm
Title: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 22, 2015, 11:10:28 pm
...that you cannot allow even remotely strong and useful ranged units, because if you do people will switch to playing the game like every other FPS. Same goes for both native module and cRPG.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Thomek on April 22, 2015, 11:32:31 pm
I mean, I still have you muted, but I had to read..
Well what have I been saying for all these years?? :D
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 22, 2015, 11:39:49 pm
What I find even more disturbing is that Star Citizen community, one of the biggest crowdfunding communities where devs kinda listen to what fans have to say about their work, on the mention that developer should consider implementing melee combat system from Kingdom Come Deliverance, most people were against saying how melee combat is so mainstream and overused and it will spoil joy of FPS component.
WTF is wrong with people? After playing previously mecha shooter game with half decent melee combat and after that dedicating my game time to Warband I can't even think, much less enjoy playing any online FPS. I'm forever lost to guns, rifles and other projectile based weapons.
cRPG related: have pretty beef HX build but just don't have desire to play it. Played ranged for some time but only enjoyment I ever got from it was sadistic joy when you see struggling enemy player trying to reach you while you are doing what can only be explained like trolling.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on April 22, 2015, 11:48:22 pm
What I find even more disturbing is that Star Citizen community, one of the biggest crowdfunding communities where devs kinda listen to what fans have to say about their work, on the mention that developer should consider implementing melee combat system from Kingdom Come Deliverance, most people were against saying how melee combat is so mainstream and overused and it will spoil joy of FPS component.
WTF is wrong with people?
They are probably thinking of stuff along the lines of knife combat in Call of Duty or Team Fortress 2 instakill melee weapons. I enjoy that option in an FPS, it's fun to fight as and against. A lot of people hate it though.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: cmp on April 23, 2015, 12:49:17 am
This settles it then, ranged must be removed ASAP.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 23, 2015, 01:13:16 am
You know those times when ranged cry on forums, demand buffs, some melee also agrees, then you go and try it youself to find out they were right, ranged is underpowered. At those times you need to look at the bigger picture, imagine cliffs filled with archers, throwers trolling infantry, bushes full of xbow shooting unnoticed. And do not change a thing.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Thomek on April 23, 2015, 01:33:13 am
Played ranged for some time but only enjoyment I ever got from it was sadistic joy when you see struggling enemy player trying to reach you while you are doing what can only be explained like trolling.
A sign of mental health right there! :) Unmuted!
(Edit, how to unmute someone?? I forgot.. ok managed.)
This settles it then, ranged must be removed ASAP.
No please. I get that good feeling inside when murdering them.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Asheram on April 23, 2015, 01:42:42 am
Don't get rid of ranged, just give melee a mage blink like in wow or a charge that gets you in melee range of the archer when you are 50 feet away and knocks them down too. :P
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on April 23, 2015, 01:47:14 am
Don't get rid of ranged, just give melee a mage blink like in wow or a charge that gets you in melee range of the archer when you are 50 feet away and knocks them down too. :P
Press Z to charge, running straight forward only
your maximum charge range is based on agility your charge damage is based on strength
if you have a weapon with knockdown or a raised shield, your charge has a chance to knock over enemies caught in your wake.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Tiger on April 23, 2015, 04:27:50 am
This settles it then, ranged must be removed ASAP.
#hero
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: [ptx] on April 23, 2015, 10:39:26 am
"..to stop posting."
Oh, well, hope dies last.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Shemaforash on April 23, 2015, 10:44:56 am
Makes some very salty as well :lol:
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Micah on April 23, 2015, 12:30:39 pm
I find the confrontations between ranged and close combat is one of the most interresting aspects of M&B in many levels. Cavalry is interresting to but not like that by a long shot (shot .. lol :oops:) . Both melee and ranged classes have their beauty in fantasies and in the gameplay ...
To balance this engagement deserves a big focus of game design and requires a good skill in it. But eventually it is what gives the game alot of life. E.g. it also can and should definately be utilized more to force more tactical gameplay. You need to understand that an tactically acting close combat squad has always a very good chance against ranged teams ... but if they just mob up and brawl around like idiots they get shot to pieces one by one ... exactly how it should be. Crying about ranged (as melee) was always and will always be my indicator for someone not getting to the point of really wanting to play the game, but simply wants to play hack and slay and be "always winning"- because people are to much used to 08/15 gameplay design that licks the balls of players already for not poking his nose for once while playing ...
Ranged vs. Melee gameplay (not sure if im including throwers to ranged, because they are basically neither) is the best thing asides the fighting mechanics in the game ...
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Bronto on April 23, 2015, 02:44:56 pm
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH.......another of these threads....talking in circles and beating a dead horse....come up with some new material please....this is boring....
On a side note, I've found a way to beat ranged easily! It's just this one easy method! Doctor's hate it! It's banned in several states! For just $9.99 I can teach YOU how to be the best around! CHECK OUT THIS SPOILER TO LEARN MORE!
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Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Rebelyell on April 23, 2015, 03:40:53 pm
Melee only would be worse we nedd ranged for many reasons.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Arrowblood on April 23, 2015, 03:56:59 pm
After 5000 hours of gaming u should just know that gaming stole the most valuable thing u have, time.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 23, 2015, 04:03:53 pm
We're all aware of it. And disagree on time being valuable, but that's completely another discussion.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Porthos on April 23, 2015, 04:13:32 pm
I'm thinking about to respec to archer too, because melee gameplay became extremely frustrating because of server lag. And as far as I understand, since devs dropped the mod development they won't restart servers aswell, so those who still have a will to play this mod are forced to play under such conditions forever. So I feel compassionate to people who decieded to play ranged because melee is fucked up atm.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Thomek on April 23, 2015, 04:16:24 pm
What, we will restart servers, but i don't think that has anything to do with server lag. And Nashringa is working on a patch..
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 23, 2015, 04:20:28 pm
He's organizing new team that will work on cRPG, from what I understood. That could take some time, especially considering tiny player base. Who will work on a mod they don't play anymore?
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Algarn on April 23, 2015, 04:27:02 pm
Getting 150 ping on europeans servers is just bad. Makes it impossible to play, that's even more ping than on NA.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: //saxon on April 23, 2015, 04:27:35 pm
i learned that most female characters are dirty hairy men irl.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 23, 2015, 04:42:47 pm
I think
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Porthos on April 23, 2015, 04:56:47 pm
[N]o
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 23, 2015, 05:07:46 pm
And to spam it goes (or chamber of tears). Good job, guys...
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Prpavi on April 23, 2015, 06:02:33 pm
HA master race! I can still taste your tears :lol:
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Crob28 on April 23, 2015, 06:47:42 pm
Increase weight of ranged weapons + ammo to the point where melee have a chance to catch runners.
If a ranged weapon is dropped, make it so it can't be picked back up.
Leads to ranged having to stay close to support or find a fixed position to defend, and at least stand and fight when they are caught.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Krave on April 23, 2015, 07:19:02 pm
After 5000 hours of gaming u should just know that gaming stole the most valuable thing u have, time.
I'd rather spend 5000 hours not being bored playing a game than half of them hours just sat there being bored having nothing to do, it's not like anyone did 5000 hours in a row, it's like an hour each day or 5 hours a week on cRPG having fun, some people spend 5000 hours and only a fraction of them hours will be fun hours.
And to me if im gonna spend an hour on cRPG it's because i couldn't think of anything else to do in my spare time. I've done everything else in the other hours of the day. it's chill time but it does add up.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: McKli_PL on April 23, 2015, 07:36:52 pm
i learned that most female characters are dirty hairy men irl.
lol so true :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Asheram on April 23, 2015, 09:14:15 pm
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Paul on April 24, 2015, 01:34:05 pm
A pass on creating a projectile system for Melee would save a lot development time. Maybe the resulting rangedlessness could be tested globally in cRPG beforehand. Ranged looms might be replaced with funny hats or nothing at all. Most likely the latter.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Switchtense on April 24, 2015, 01:52:45 pm
A pass on creating a projectile system for Melee would save a lot development time. Maybe the resulting rangedlessness could be tested globally in cRPG beforehand. Ranged looms might be replaced with funny hats or nothing at all. Most likely the latter.
You should replace all looms with a copy of themselves, which shows the same damage values, armour values etc etc. Just that weapons do maybe 5 or 10 damage max and armour has like 5 armour.
Would be funny to see everybody whine about whatever the enemy uses needing a nerf. Or whatever they use needing a buff.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 24, 2015, 02:41:21 pm
A pass on creating a projectile system for Melee would save a lot development time. Maybe the resulting rangedlessness could be tested globally in cRPG beforehand. Ranged looms might be replaced with funny hats or nothing at all. Most likely the latter.
So funneh...
Real issue is extra bonus to effectiveness ranged classes have in Warband, while shieldless have none. Of course, that is historically accurate and pikers/swordsmen were filling up gaps shielders left them when progressing forward but it kinda hard to emulate that in cRPG/Warband for various reasons. One of them is shielder class being inferior and overall design of shield combat mechanic in Warband. Because it is one button blocking system compared to 4 directional for shieldless infantry, to compensate devs have put many maluses to shield combat, making it slower, clunkier and overall more boring. If M:BG devs could solve that piece of puzzle, at least one aspect of this issue will be fixed and we'll see more proper teamplay and formations.
Ranged works just like they should formation wise, they can take higher ground for extra damage, have siege equipment at their disposal which shields them from cavalry and other ranged, can kite, can spread and kite. As their number number grow their effectiveness becomes much greater. None of that goes for other classes, not even shielders benefit much from their shieldwall.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Switchtense on April 24, 2015, 03:16:53 pm
As their number number grow their effectiveness becomes much greater. None of that goes for other classes, not even shielders benefit much from their shieldwall.
I assume you mean archers who know what they are doing. A blob of noob archers is just as effective as a blob of any other class.
So the answer is: Pikers who know what they are doing.
Up against 1 of them? Easy game. Up against 2, a lot more difficult already. 3+? Hell.
You can survive for a while if you don't let one of them get behind you and just block. But as soon as you release the block to attack you have one or more spears stuck in your body.
Same goes for archers if you are a shielder. Suriving is not that difficult, killing them is the problem. Though I'd say killing 3+ archers as a shielder is way easier than killing 3+ pikers with any class.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Gravoth_iii on April 24, 2015, 04:22:27 pm
Only thing i would like see done to ranged in M:BG would be adding a system similar to Red Orchestra 2 when aiming, to make it more difficult. As for crpg i still dont think archers are an issue at all, crossbowmen actually do damage but are still not that big of a threat. Nerf cav
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Switchtense on April 24, 2015, 04:50:54 pm
And this is why Warband was never balanced on the assumption of 'How can we get 1 melee hero to easily beat 5 players of another class who know what they're doing'.
Noob archers are free kills whatever they do on the battlefield, but there are none of those left in cRPG. Some players like to say ranged takes no skill, it's got one of the highest skill ceilings in the warband engine but we're at the point now where nearly every archer is at least competent at their class, this makes life hell.
I don't really have a problem with archers or Xbows. What annoys me far more are the throwers. They can kite a lot more effectively than archers or xbows since they just run-jump-throw all the time, have shitloads of agi and still decent melee capabilities.
There are nearly no archers who can shoot you to pulp and at the same time beat you to pulp in melee. The majority dies fairly quickly or just runs off. Same with xbows. Only a selected few who I hate having on the opposite side.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 24, 2015, 04:52:51 pm
As someone said on server, pikers are ranged who can block :P
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Rebelyell on April 24, 2015, 05:56:24 pm
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Leshma on April 24, 2015, 05:59:54 pm
No no, Bobbygay. This is meant for the future balancing. That thread you linked is crying over current situation.
Title: Re: After playing cRPG/Warband for well over 5000 hours I learned...
Post by: Asheram on April 24, 2015, 06:15:28 pm
The only thing that will fix ranged is to bring back ladders. visitors can't see pics , please register or login visitors can't see pics , please register or login