cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: DaveUKR on March 26, 2015, 10:39:10 pm

Title: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: DaveUKR on March 26, 2015, 10:39:10 pm
In theory, yes. They you try it and it's not even close.

Well, if you just try it - ofc because you're not used to it. Remember your grandpa using a mouse and typing? That's you using gamepad in Warband.

People told me that I'm a freak because I used inverted Y axis and first person for melee fights.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: cmp on March 27, 2015, 02:17:12 am
Well, if you just try it - ofc because you're not used to it.

Yes Dave, it's definitely just a matter of getting used to it. There's no difference whatsoever between thumb and hand movement.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: DaveUKR on March 27, 2015, 02:05:47 pm
Yes Dave, it's definitely just a matter of getting used to it. There's no difference whatsoever between thumb and hand movement.

If you speak about that - you're even wronger, thumb is more accurate than a whole hand even if yours is untrained. You can even make an experiment with immobilized hand and thumb. Comparing those is not really relevant <- hand has a bigger area consequently compensating its inaccuracy with wider movements and less sensitivity however it depends on individual settings and playstyle. Gamepad would require a completely different way of controlling your character that is imagined here. I'm not really up to use gamepads but I believe that something that is needed has to be revolutionary, maybe you'll make it for M:BG.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: cmp on March 27, 2015, 04:14:39 pm
If you speak about that - you're even wronger, thumb is more accurate than a whole hand even if yours is untrained.

This forum desperately needs a rofl emote (hint: hand includes thumb).

I'm not really up to use gamepads but I believe that something that is needed has to be revolutionary, maybe you'll make it for M:BG.

What's the point, when mouse+keyboard is as good as it gets? The next step is VR-friendly controls, not gamepads.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: DaveUKR on March 27, 2015, 04:49:47 pm
This forum desperately needs a rofl emote (hint: hand includes thumb).

Try harder understanding this. I'm actually surprised that I have to explain this but I'll do it just for you. The word "arm" has multiple definitions for a reason. Arm includes hand that includes thumb, thanks for making useless hint. The more distant joints (arms or levers if you want -> in anatomy called joints) used in the action - more accurate you can perform it. Easy example - try writing any word with a pen just like you were taught to do it in school, easy right? Then place it one joint higher so you hold it with your proximal phalanges and right it again - not as easy. Then hold it in your fist and perform again. After that hold it in your elbow.

I stated before that it's not really relevant to compare because there are different way of how people hold the mouse. But in any situation thumb should be more accurate than a hand unless you have issues with it. Anyway there is no sense to argue if you didn't understand what I wrote.

What's the point, when mouse+keyboard is as good as it gets? The next step is VR-friendly controls, not gamepads.

The point is that the world already has millions of gamepads used for consoles (which are the subject of this thread) and they'll be used for many years in future. And prioritizing VR-friendly controls over gamepad controls for consoles doesn't look any reasonable unless you're going to release your game in such far future that nobody uses gamepads any more.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: cmp on March 27, 2015, 05:00:55 pm
Dave, we're talking about gamepad vs. mouse (or thumbstick vs mouse if you prefer), not whatever you're writing about. I know you like to be a contrarian, but now you're just making yourself look silly.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: DaveUKR on March 27, 2015, 05:18:17 pm
Dave, we're talking about gamepad vs. mouse (or thumbstick vs mouse if you prefer), not whatever you're writing about. I know you like to be a contrarian, but now you're just making yourself look silly.

You can't get my point even after I explained it twice and you just rant. I was trying to point where you were wrong and you just started making a fool out of me.  lol, whatever.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 27, 2015, 05:47:39 pm
Yes Dave, it's definitely just a matter of getting used to it. There's no difference whatsoever between thumb and hand movement.

Well, sometimes snappy sarcasm is funny and the fast solution. In this case it is not even remotely funny and it would have been more helpful and time saving if you'd just explained what you mean.


However I agree that ultimately mouse is superior because for moving it around you use all five fingers with extreme accuracy (if you do it right) and when needed you can add wrist movements for greater distances and speed.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: cmp on March 27, 2015, 06:43:47 pm
In this case it is not even remotely funny and it would have been more helpful and time saving if you'd just explained what you mean.

It was not meant to be funny, just a sarcastic answer to a silly remark (and also wrong, since I used controllers quite a bit). What I meant is \/

ultimately mouse is superior because for moving it around you use all five fingers with extreme accuracy (if you do it right) and when needed you can add wrist movements for greater distances and speed.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: DaveUKR on March 27, 2015, 11:06:45 pm
Well, that's getting on my nerves. Now read it again if you still didn't get it. I didn't say that mouse was inferior to controllers and didn't even mean it. I tried to point out that for M&B-like games you don't only need to get used to a gamepad but also to the game itself because it would be hard to play it even for hardcore console players. And you came up with irrelevant difference between thumb and a hand (being wrong that you still don't understand). If you use your whole hand to control a mouse (which is standard holding for most PC users) then fingers have higher accuracy. If you use spider-holding or finger tip(basically controlling with fingers) or mixed (claw) then ofc 5 fingers > 1 finger. But why mentioning hand vs thumb then?

And the most annoying thing that you quoted Bloody_Nine who mentioned fingertip holding of the mouse while speaking about palmgrip yourself.  :rolleyes:

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Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: cmp on March 28, 2015, 12:35:04 am
Well, if you just try it - ofc because you're not used to it.
I tried to point out that for M&B-like games you don't only need to get used to a gamepad but also to the game itself because it would be hard to play it even for hardcore console players.

Yes Dave, that's totally what you did. I don't know how I misunderstood something so obvious.
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: Paul on March 28, 2015, 05:54:08 am
Wait, egoshooter/slasher-wise someone is argueing against mouse and keyboard and in favour of a gamepad? I think I remember Bethesda claiming that they had to exclude head shoot bonus damage from Oblivion because the console-clowns would have been mad about that with their imprecise controls compared to pin-point accurate PC-masterrace. Isn't aim-assistance an industry standard now for games because of gamepads?
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: Christo on March 28, 2015, 06:08:51 am
Egh, with the dual analog I always felt like I had to re-calibrate on two axes, it was slow and unwieldy as fuck for a FPS game.

It was not natural at all, unlike mouse movement, where you have absolute freedom.

Some of it comes from a lack of controller usage on my end but still, mice are way more accurate.
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 28, 2015, 07:32:54 am
MRW gamepads on PC
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#justmasterracethings
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 28, 2015, 12:10:39 pm
claw grip wtf???
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on March 28, 2015, 01:44:42 pm
claw grip wtf???
The grip used by GTX just before GTXing
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: DaveUKR on March 28, 2015, 02:20:06 pm
cmp so mad that even made a new thread picking conversation out of context enitrely :D Well I give up because I'll either end up banned or will get some of those extravagant punishments. Too dangerous to troll!
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: cmp on March 28, 2015, 02:21:53 pm
Does this look like a Bannerlord thread to you?
Come on man, it's not so bad to admit that you said something silly. We won't hold it against you, pinky promise.
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: Grumbs on March 28, 2015, 02:30:50 pm
It will be interesting to see how the new Steam Controllers feel in terms of accuracy. I think the main problem with controllers is the limited physical distance you can move the stick from 0%-100%, the acceleration present in it and the resistance you get when moving it doesn't feel constant. Its not really just about controlling with a thumb or hand imo..I could control a mouse with just a thumb quite accurately I think. Still much rather use mouse & keyboard and use my whole hand to reduce fatigue
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: DaveUKR on March 28, 2015, 02:31:21 pm
Does this look like a Bannerlord thread to you?
Come on man, it's not so bad to admit that you said something silly. We won't hold it against you, pinky promise.

Sorry master! My fault, silly me!
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Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: cmp on March 28, 2015, 02:41:57 pm
It will be interesting to see how the new Steam Controllers feel in terms of accuracy. I think the main problem with controllers is the limited physical distance you can move the stick from 0%-100%, the acceleration present in it and the resistance you get when moving it doesn't feel constant.

It does look better with trackpads (assuming they aren't the kind you find on 300€ Acer laptops). IIRC there was a video of somebody playing Civilization fluidly with it, which is a good step up from a regular controller.
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on March 28, 2015, 03:09:07 pm
I doubt they're going to be shit trackpads if they've spent this amount of time on it.
Title: Re: Re: Bannerlord will be released for consoles
Post by: Grumbs on March 28, 2015, 03:56:03 pm
And the most annoying thing that you quoted Bloody_Nine who mentioned fingertip holding of the mouse while speaking about palmgrip yourself.  :rolleyes:

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However I agree that ultimately mouse is superior because for moving it around you use all five fingers with extreme accuracy (if you do it right) and when needed you can add wrist movements for greater distances and speed.

You can claw/fingertip grip and use arm/wrist movements too. You pretty much have to if you don't use high sensitivity: https://youtu.be/S77MJg-v4sY
Title: Re: Mouse vs Gamepad
Post by: Kalam on March 28, 2015, 06:00:58 pm
I use claw grip with high sensitivity. I might've used fingertip at one point, but it definitely comes into play when you're using your mouse as a keyboard in a game that isn't Warband/some fps.

Gamepads are bad, okay? That's why mouse + keyboard was considered cheating on LIVE.