cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Torben on May 24, 2011, 12:19:58 pm

Title: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Torben on May 24, 2011, 12:19:58 pm
first off:
I´d love to see an admin delete all the bitching that will take place in this thread.  Just read bane´s cav stuff and all the crappy replies render the thread very exhausting,  but i loved the idea of the thread. 

I´d like to have an effective list of changes to horses that diversify the battlefield.  I want opinions of different experienced cavplayers.  ONLY opinions.  No discussions.  at least in the beginning.
 Than,  if we have enough ideas we can go on discussing.

these opinions should be notes only,  I dont want essays, pple tend to read 2 words and be biased for the rest which sucks.

utopia ftw
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Torben on May 24, 2011, 01:36:14 pm
these are standalone suggestions,  not a concept.

Link riding skill to effectiveness,  not bling-factor. (highest tier courser,  arrabian, cataphrac, mamluk,  plated charger (if mamluk and charger will be changed))



armored horses: more speed,  more maneuver penalty at speed than light horses.


elevate riding skill if horses are loomed.  i actually hate the idea rendering my champ mamluk useless but it would be fair.


Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Riddaren on May 24, 2011, 03:04:37 pm
Horses should have their free will. The lower riding skill the harder they should be to manouver.
This could be a terrible idea and maybe impossbile to implement but I find it interesting. Bows already have accuracy randomness so why not the horses?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Lizard_man on May 24, 2011, 04:36:21 pm
a seperate button for dismount would be nice, maybe even mount aswell, i say this because many times i've had to dismount in a hurry and instead i've picked up a weapon or shield and been killed in the process...
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: La Makina on May 24, 2011, 04:59:08 pm
Riddaren +1.

Impact the weight of the rider's equipment on the horse speed and manoeuvre (like for Athletism) to monitor tincans riding jetponies.

Horses will become slower if they are wounded (like in the Diplomacy mod). Armoured horses will then become righteously appreciated. Also, increase horses HP.

My old suggestion: remove/reduce the speed bonus of thrusts:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4901.msg85459.html#msg85459
A big speed bonus (insta-kill) should only apply to couching the lance. We might need to buff the couching then: for instance the minimum speed necessary to couch the lance should be lowered and the recovery time shortened.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on May 24, 2011, 05:08:28 pm
Quote from: La Makina on May 24, 2011, 04:59:08 pm
Riddaren +1.

Impact the weight of the rider's equipment on the horse speed and manoeuvre (like for Athletism) to monitor tincans riding jetponies.

Horses will become slower if they are wounded (like in the Diplomacy mod). Armoured horses will then become righteously appreciated. Also, increase horses HP.

My old suggestion: remove/reduce the speed bonus of thrusts:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4901.msg85459.html#msg85459
A big speed bonus (insta-kill) should only apply to couching the lance. We might need to buff the couching then: for instance the minimum speed necessary to couch the lance should be lowered and the recovery time shortened.

This, i find it funny that a horse doesent even flinch when it gets a morning star to the face. It runs hapily with full speed his face full of holes  :D

Imo the unarmored horses are far superior to the armored ones because of this. Should be the other way since they are higher tier after all
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Riddaren on May 26, 2011, 11:51:27 pm
La Makina +1.

"Impact the weight of the rider's equipment on the horse speed and manoeuvre (like for Athletism) to monitor tincans riding jetponies"
Yeah, this would be fair. You just can't ride a horse as good if you are wearing a body suit of steel...

"Horses will become slower if they are wounded (like in the Diplomacy mod). Armoured horses will then become righteously appreciated. Also, increase horses HP."
Would be realistic... but will it be more fun or just annoying to play? I'm sceptic. And if it would be implemented it would only be fair if it affected the players in the same way.

---

Fluffy_Muffin +1

"Imo the unarmored horses are far superior to the armored ones because of this. Should be the other way since they are higher tier after all"
Yeah... that is the case. I find armoured horses kind of useless when wielding a lance. However for 1h bumpslashers they are viable.armour costs.

The riding skill requirement should be linked to horse speed and maneuver, that is most logical, so Courser and Arabian should be 6 and armoured 4 and 5 (unless the armoured ones gets buffed).
But you don't want too many 1h armoured cavalry so a decrease in price would not be a good idea. I rather see a price increase for all horses.

Another thing that is a fact is that ranged cav can be much more effective on lower tier horses than melee cav. Dunno if that needs a fix though... Maybe increase price of lower tier horses even more.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Dezilagel on May 26, 2011, 11:54:08 pm
Quote from: Riddaren on May 26, 2011, 11:51:27 pm
And if it would be implemented it would only be fair if it affected the players in the same way.

Ooh, this is gonna be funneh :D

Ready...set...THREAD!
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Wildling on May 27, 2011, 12:24:25 am
If horses are gonna get wounded and run slower when hit: How the fuck will we even move when over 9000 arrows are flying ahead.

A courser dies in almost 2 arrow hits.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Riddaren on May 27, 2011, 12:33:55 am
My champion courser usually dies in 3-4 arrow hits unless it is hit in the head which always (or almost always) causes it to die instantly.
And I haven't noticed much difference with armoured horses, seems they die from 1 hit to head just as easy as unarmoured ones which feels a bit wrong. All bows but longbow makes piercing damage so that shouldn't happen so easily to armoured heads.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: La Makina on May 27, 2011, 10:14:38 am
Quote from: Wildling on May 27, 2011, 12:24:25 am
If horses are gonna get wounded and run slower when hit: How the fuck will we even move when over 9000 arrows are flying ahead.

A courser dies in almost 2 arrow hits.

That is why I suggest buffing horses's HP at the same time (horses weight from 500 kgs to 1 ton, they should have a lot of HP).

They will survive longer but, as they get wounded, become less efficient. See also that the rider would have a chance of dismounting before his horse get killed, throwing him off the floor.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Belatu on May 27, 2011, 10:18:43 am
Quote from: Riddaren on May 24, 2011, 03:04:37 pm
Horses should have their free will. The lower riding skill the harder they should be to manouver.
This could be a terrible idea and maybe impossbile to implement but I find it interesting. Bows already have accuracy randomness so why not the horses?

(click to show/hide)

This is a very intelligent idea, and it gives back the sensation of reality where a horse is not a machine.  +1
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Calimaw on May 27, 2011, 10:32:02 am
Quote from: Belatu on May 27, 2011, 10:18:43 am
This is a very intelligent idea, and it gives back the sensation of reality where a horse is not a machine.  +1

So would this mean, for example, a horse that requires 2 riding now, would be willful about where it wants to go? or would 2 riding negate it entirely, and 1 riding would make it fight you for control.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Bulzur on May 27, 2011, 10:39:11 am
Quote from: Riddaren on May 27, 2011, 12:33:55 am
My champion courser usually dies in 3-4 arrow hits unless it is hit in the head which always (or almost always) causes it to die instantly.
And I haven't noticed much difference with armoured horses, seems they die from 1 hit to head just as easy as unarmoured ones which feels a bit wrong. All bows but longbow makes piercing damage so that shouldn't happen so easily to armoured heads.

First, yep, i guess you wrote it wrong, so it's cutting instead of piercing.
2nd, the "seems" is indeed what it seems like, a false impression. No longbow with 6 PS can insta 1hit an armoured horse in the head.
Also, it's funny how all thoses "usually 3/4" arrows, and "almost always one shot in the head" ALWAYS only take in consideration longbow with 6 PD, and not the strong bow with 5 PD wich deals quite a bit less damage.

And again, i'm sure you get focused by xbows too, and thoses sure deal way more damage than any bows, with a slightly better accuracy at mid range.

Back to topic :
+1 to horses should have their free will, the percentage of free will is really low and would only make it more interesting. Plus it wouldn't bother at all the dedicated cav.

+1 for buff armo hp, if La MAkina's two ideas are added. And only slow the horse once it has taken at least 50% damage, that way, cav can still ride a bit to dangerous zones at their normal speed.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Torben on May 27, 2011, 12:03:48 pm
Cheers guys,  glad too see a lot of interesting  ideas
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Belatu on May 27, 2011, 01:12:00 pm
Quote from: Calimaw on May 27, 2011, 10:32:02 am
So would this mean, for example, a horse that requires 2 riding now, would be willful about where it wants to go? or would 2 riding negate it entirely, and 1 riding would make it fight you for control.

Basically it is to put some ramdom movements while riding a horse. The more rinding skill, the less ramdom moves, but at the end it will be always .... same as aiming at archery. 

Also when the horse is stopped, you have to give some movements to correct it... I think it will give the realistic sensation for the one who is riding and for the one who is watching it.

 :D
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Torben on May 27, 2011, 02:53:37 pm
Quote from: Belatu on May 27, 2011, 01:12:00 pm


Also when the horse is stopped, you have to give some movements to correct it... I think it will give the realistic sensation for the one who is riding and for the one who is watching it.

 :D


I want this!
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on May 27, 2011, 08:45:14 pm
Regarding horses having a little bit of free will: I like the idea, however I'm not sure how this would be implemented. Even if successfully put into practise, I'm not sure how fun or effective it would be. Still, if it can be easily implemented, and if the horse's randomness isn't annoying, I support it. However, this randomness would make it so that you had less control of your mount: you couldn't swerve and turn with exactness, and evading attacks and projectiles would be more difficult. Thus, the issue of our current horses' delicateness comes into the light. If the idea of horse's free-will is implemented, I think horses should get an HP buff as well.

Even if there are no free-willed ponies implemented, I think horses should still get an HP buff and speed nerf. If we were only to add HP, horses would be very much OP, however I'd like to see a speed nerf in addition to the HP buff to balance shit out. It would also have the added benefit of bringing horses away from their current "ninja on the battlefeild" status, and more towards the heavy hitting, thundering cavalry I so desire.

Armor boost for the armored ponies, too, or at least for the warhorses. My large warhorse has left me rather unsatisfied--it is encased in chainmail, yet dies in six or seven arrow hits. I know that might seem like alot, BUT IN CPRG THAT IS NOTHING. I think people need to understand that archers in this game shoot like fucking machine guns, and they are large in number; there is no reason to conform to realism if realism does not cooincide with balance.

TL;DR: Look at the bolded statements. Those are my ideas, the rest is in support of teh bolds.
Title: Re: Cav stuff no. 2
Post by: Diavolo on May 27, 2011, 09:19:47 pm
Quote from: Riddaren on May 24, 2011, 03:04:37 pm
Horses should have their free will. The lower riding skill the harder they should be to manouver.
This could be a terrible idea and maybe impossbile to implement but I find it interesting. Bows already have accuracy randomness so why not the horses?

(click to show/hide)

this sounds like a good idea, but its already in the game :) You know the riding skill needed to "ride" different horses? Well, a complete noob can ride any horse in real life, however he might not be able to get the horse to do exactly as he wants it to all the time. So to model this in M&B they invented riding skill and riding skill requirements. If you have high enugh riding skill to have the horse fullfill all your wishes whenever you want it to, you fullfill the riding skill requirement.

Riding with lower riding skill than needed would be extremely stupid, since one "funky thing" from the horse would often lead to your death. So this suggestion in addition to the normal riding requirements on horses would just make all horses have the same riding requirement: 7 or 8. (which would force all cavalry to have atleast 21 AGI)

I suggest no riding skill requirement on horses no more, just keep a "on par" reccomendation on each horse. As long as you have one more than "on par" there is 0 chance of the horse doing a prank on you. If you have the exact value needed, perhaps 1% chance, and quite some chance when you get much below the reccomended amount of riding for the horse. (like 3% one less, 6% 2 less, 10% 3 less and so on.)