cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thomek on May 24, 2011, 10:54:11 am

Title: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Thomek on May 24, 2011, 10:54:11 am
Would this be possible?

At beginning of round, you get a short summary of wind conditions. For it to be realistic you would also need a compass, or at least a hint of directions.. But this is not necessary.

Simplified it could be implemented as a factor in leading projectiles left or right. (independent of shooting direction)

This would add another skill layer to archery that should be returned in damage or other stats.

Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Riddaren on May 24, 2011, 11:42:10 am
Very nice idea but it doesn't feel like this could be created by a modder but I hope I'm wrong.
"Any" suggestion that would increase the gap between a good player and a bad is a good one imo.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Ozin on May 24, 2011, 11:49:41 am
Ah yes, that would be awesome.. Anyone remember sniping in the old Delta Force games? Wind and distance (travel time and drop) was a major factor to sniping in those games, was epic.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: hyena on May 24, 2011, 11:51:59 am
Well if you wanted something like this then you would have to adjust the crosshair.

The problem is, its well and good having more realistic conditions for shooting but since the Crosshair already adds a degree of random trajectory changes, it would be impossible to really predict and compensate for any more external factors. If you wanted to add windage, you would need to eliminate the above, otherwise its going to make it just horribly hard to hit anything (and more relying on blind luck)

If you want that sort of stuff, and enjoy sitting with a windometer working out a shot then ArmA2 is a good game for it.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: chadz on May 24, 2011, 11:53:54 am
I'd be all for reducing randomness and increasing skill based things.

It's definately not possible without WSE, but maybe with.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Christo on May 24, 2011, 12:00:24 pm
I had no archer in cRPG, but I like the idea myself, too.  :)
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: hyena on May 24, 2011, 12:01:46 pm
How would you work it out? Something like arrows in the bottom corner that got longer/changed colour according to wind strength?

I like the idea personally, would make more sense then random chance.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Christo on May 24, 2011, 12:04:10 pm
Maybe the website Weather Report should be integrated into the game, when a round starts.

With information on the wind, of course.


Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on May 24, 2011, 12:04:52 pm
finally a challenge for my old friendchers. +9000
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Paul on May 24, 2011, 01:03:47 pm
I doubt that we'll mess around in the trajectory code.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Bulzur on May 24, 2011, 01:37:38 pm
Would this be possible?

At beginning of round, you get a short summary of wind conditions. For it to be realistic you would also need a compass, or at least a hint of directions.. But this is not necessary.

Simplified it could be implemented as a factor in leading projectiles left or right. (independent of shooting direction)

This would add another skill layer to archery that should be returned in damage or other stats.

Do you mean that as a crossbow i won't hit exactly where i aim anymore ?  :o
Nevertheless, good idea. We, as archers, already aim upper than our target, depending on distance. Why not also aim sideways depending on the distance. It will be hard to get used to it, but with it, no one will whine on forums saying archery is too easy, etc...

But seeing Paul's post, i doubt we'll see such a thing in the future. Too much trouble for not a lot of benefit.

And if you really add this, it will be counted as a fix for archery, only if you boost up our bow stats and/or ammo. Else, definitely a nerf.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: La Makina on May 24, 2011, 06:11:25 pm
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3181.msg56484.html#msg56484

We could buff archery back then.

But please no wind in the buildings. We already have the rain!
Or only a draft when two windows are open for realism.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on May 24, 2011, 06:23:05 pm
for this there should be a new rectile made for archery which would show the points for how many directional power of the wind, for some indication
something like this(but without the circle and stuff, just the points)
http://www.google.nl/imgres?imgurl=http://www.freeclipartnow.com/d/41645-1/Crosshairs.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.freeclipartnow.com/signs-symbols/targets/Crosshairs.jpg.html&usg=__kKgCEmAkrhKwrAUvK9MakQp3x9o=&h=350&w=348&sz=15&hl=nl&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=O6E6KAqJ5_Xt9M:&tbnh=139&tbnw=138&ei=z9rbTbuTGcXrOf3yoYEP&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcrosshair%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dnl%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1T4ADFA_nlNL405NL405%26biw%3D1260%26bih%3D593%26tbm%3Disch&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=141&sqi=2&page=1&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=67&ty=56 (i know long one...lol)

+1!
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Joxer on May 24, 2011, 06:44:19 pm
Wind doesn't even affect arrows / bolts irl that much untill it's really heavy. Lots of coding for such a tiny effect.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on May 24, 2011, 07:11:51 pm
Wind doesn't even affect arrows / bolts irl that much untill it's really heavy. Lots of coding for such a tiny effect.
it does at 30m+, and though it does require a lot of coding, it also adds a lot of realism to the game
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: jspook on May 24, 2011, 07:20:09 pm
Quote
for this there should be a new rectile made for archery which would show the points for how many directional power of the wind, for some indication
something like this(but without the circle and stuff, just the points)
Quote
it does at 30m+, and though it does require a lot of coding, it also adds a lot of realism to the game

adding crosshairs on a bow never adds realism.  lol.  last time I checked, those guys pretty much just eyeballed it with good ole hand eye coordination.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on May 24, 2011, 07:34:51 pm
that's why it should be an add-on and not a standerd rectile :wink:
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Joxer on May 24, 2011, 08:06:54 pm
If we add that and it's done realistically then we must also take into consideration how tincans would just fall over in that kind of wind. As I said the effect is negligible.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Banok on May 24, 2011, 08:13:26 pm
heres some weather realism you could actually add; rain stopping bows and xbows from working.

;0
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on May 24, 2011, 08:14:30 pm
heres some weather realism you could actually add; rain stopping bows and xbows from working.

;0
nah not really, that would only be appropriate with firearms
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Joxer on May 24, 2011, 08:33:42 pm
Rain should stop the mongol style bows from working. Those things are glueued (!?) together with something that doesn't hold up in rain :D
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: ArchonAlarion on May 24, 2011, 09:58:34 pm
The crosshair should be removed and wind added.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: HarunYahya on May 25, 2011, 01:11:30 am
Also add sails !
I want to get away with the viking boat and leech on unreachable place -Middle of zhe sea !- on "Port Assault" map.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Siboire on May 25, 2011, 01:24:17 am
Sorry but is this a try to nerf archery? (not archer myself) cuz if u want to be realist, it should not affect the projectil before a really long distance and hitting somebody at such a distance is already rare to see. Either a luck shot or somebody standing still. Only really good archers like loki has managed to snipe me even while moving... So i dont see why this should be implemented...

At same time, why not make it so that guys in plate cant jump much and whenever they fall, they get crushed under the weight of their armor (get more falling damage)...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on May 25, 2011, 07:41:50 am
Rain should stop the mongol style bows from working. Those things are glueued (!?) together with something that doesn't hold up in rain :D
they are glued but the glue isn't on the outside of the bow?! it's between the horn, tendent and wood
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Banok on May 25, 2011, 08:53:23 am
fyi its the strings effected by the rain, s'why we won the battle of crecy cause we could take the strings off the longbows but the water made the genoese xbows inneffective

innit
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Paul on May 25, 2011, 08:59:00 am
You won the Battle of Crécy?
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on May 25, 2011, 11:50:06 am
nah its shit, everything is well balanced atm :/
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Banok on May 25, 2011, 06:23:40 pm
You won the Battle of Crécy?

me and dr who had a little hand in it, was a crazy weekend I tell ya
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Joxer on May 25, 2011, 06:52:36 pm
they are glued but the glue isn't on the outside of the bow?! it's between the horn, tendent and wood

Water has a nasty way of getting trough into things. Also such things as wood tend to suck it up.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on May 25, 2011, 09:04:13 pm
if the bows weren't waterproof after a day of fighting in the rain, you would have to get a new one and to make one takes 2 months so i don't think they would use that kind of bows. because then it wouldn't be worth it to use them.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Joxer on May 25, 2011, 09:52:38 pm
Well they did. And it's a known historical fact. That's the payoff for being a better performer than a longbow and still much smaller so it can be used from horseback.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Legio_Spartacus on May 26, 2011, 07:26:23 pm
Bad idea! It will be so hard to an archer to hit someone for the wind.

Not like.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Replica on May 26, 2011, 08:38:37 pm
I AM COMPLETELY UP FOR THAT !!! If it is even possible . Love the idea

Love to spice things up a bit.

And if some archer is complaining about my post - i am an archer aswel, dedicated one.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Cup1d on May 27, 2011, 12:30:13 am
TBH in IL-2 Shturmovik it wasn't implemented for 10 years. But there was maaany threads about how awesome it could be.
But in Il-2 you have compass at least.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Thomek on May 27, 2011, 01:46:44 am
So you played sturmovik extensively.. me too back in the day!

Used to be pretty good in doing scissors with my FW190 online..

And now you're an archer.. No wonder where you learned complex trajectory prediction, bullett falloff and speed.. :-) It IS actually easier in cRPG! (Although targets may switch directions quicker)

I see now why you are a good shooter. Respect!

Do you know if they added wind effects on bullets in Cliffs of Dover? I've been out of the game for 7-8 years.. I presume they added wind for planes.. (dont remember if there was already wind.. but i dont think so back then. Remember some though landings, but cant place if it was because I was shot up or wind.)




Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Joxer on May 27, 2011, 08:07:21 am
Lol. I played Il-2 too. We even formed a flight squadron. We were fsn squad from fs nordic  :lol: Even got myself track-ir and stuff. Haven't flyed in ages thought. Last time I tried I didn't even get off the runway. It's not like riding a bike.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Replica on May 27, 2011, 11:45:02 am
Il2 ftw :) clocked some insane hours there. It is a heaven to play with saitek x52 + saitek rudder pedals + trackir. I am still pretty good in the game.
I also fly soaring planes irl and Rc soaring planes, and this game actually helped me a lot :) BUt because of it i stopped flying real soaring plane because i cant hold myself back not to do the things i can do in game. It sucks, but with soaring planes you have no engine to save yourself and it is to much of a responsibility. So i rather dont take off anymore :)
Cant wait untill the new IL2 gets patched properly.

But back to topic, You dont need a compass to show wind direction. maybe archers could get some stick with strapes/flag  on it to show  how wind is blowing.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Cup1d on May 27, 2011, 02:17:16 pm
TBH also I spend six year for Shooting sport irl.

And yes, FW-190 (A4, A6, A8) was my main plane in Il-2. With TrackIr, CH Fighterstick, CH pro pedal and CH pro throttle you can be deadly. I was really proud with my 25-28% accuracy.
I miss my TrackIr in Warband. Pity, I cant use it here. I heard cmp playing warband with X-52. I know - he is cheater:).

There NO wind effects on bullets in Cliffs of Dover atm. There is POSSIBILITY to make it work in future. with Windows 10, 64GB of RAM and 9000Mhz processors.


Quote
But back to topic, You dont need a compass to show wind direction. maybe archers could get some stick with strapes/flag  on it to show  how wind is blowing.

It's more complicated. There too many different factors for trajectory calculation. Gliding arrows, contrary wind, weight of the projectile, shape of projectile, wind direction, wind force, initial velocity of projectile etc... In short - ballistics.

Please - give us Strategus first:)

Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Mtemtko on May 29, 2011, 07:57:31 pm
So you played sturmovik extensively.. me too back in the day!

Used to be pretty good in doing scissors with my FW190 online..

And now you're an archer.. No wonder where you learned complex trajectory prediction, bullett falloff and speed.. :-) It IS actually easier in cRPG! (Although targets may switch directions quicker)

I see now why you are a good shooter. Respect!

Do you know if they added wind effects on bullets in Cliffs of Dover? I've been out of the game for 7-8 years.. I presume they added wind for planes.. (dont remember if there was already wind.. but i dont think so back then. Remember some though landings, but cant place if it was because I was shot up or wind.)

Nice to see someone that played IL-2 1946 too,I have some 700 hours of gameplay  :D
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2011, 10:03:25 pm
If the trajectory code is as complicated as the spawn code (and hell do modders know the spawn code can't be understood by mortals) this will likely never get done. Or if you really want to do it I think we should ask Dennis Richie or someone like that  :P
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Sphinxer on June 01, 2011, 08:03:10 pm
You wanna add complex coding to a ridiculous $10 worth code ? Don't :P
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Ylca on June 03, 2011, 10:32:14 pm
How does this in any way make the game more fun?
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Thomek on June 04, 2011, 12:18:41 pm
Those who get hit, will know that the archer had some measure of skill if it was a distance shot.. And the archer will get a greater feeling of satisfaction if he succeeds in a doing a difficult shot.. Perhaps damage should be added to archery as well, so it will be more deadly.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Rumblood on June 04, 2011, 03:18:20 pm
Those who get hit, will know that the archer had some measure of skill if it was a distance shot.. And the archer will get a greater feeling of satisfaction if he succeeds in a doing a difficult shot.. Perhaps damage should be added to archery as well, so it will be more deadly.

Not with the cone of fire. All it will mean is that you have to be even luckier than you do now at distance. If you want to replace the random cone of fire with a skill based "wind" component to adjust for, great. If all you want to do is make an already partially luck based system into a totally luck based system, then no.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Paul on June 04, 2011, 03:34:10 pm
My idea would be to have random wind velocity vector set at map start that consists of an x and y component. No z component(vertical axis) to keep it simple. This then would be used in the trajectory calculation, causing a slight change of the projectile path. However this would happen within buildings, behind hills, etc. as well or else it would become too complex. Maybe players could be able to use a hotkey that tells them from what direction the wind comes.

However all this can't be done without WSE and a very, very bored cmp.
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Glyph on June 04, 2011, 10:06:43 pm
is it so that an arrow moves more off target from the 0-10 yards from release then it does from 10-20 yards?(because that's real life)
if so, than that would have to be calcutaled along with it...
and ofc the projectile speed, that slows down so the wind effect should be too
:| more work
Title: Re: Adding "wind" for projectiles.
Post by: Havoc134 on June 04, 2011, 10:40:02 pm
Xbow sniping will become even harder for us arbalest users  :D and I say that because most xbow users don't bother using the xbow for anything but short-med range. A welcome challenge indeed, but as already mentioned all ranged users would need an accuracy and damage boost as compensation to avoid making long range shots completely luck dependent and not worth the effort (shots lose a lot of damage over range)