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Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Falka on January 20, 2015, 07:25:20 am

Title: Country of freedom
Post by: Falka on January 20, 2015, 07:25:20 am
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Prison Population per 100,000 people

Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 20, 2015, 08:19:02 am
Wow, so many types of yellow.


Interesting map. Then again, significance is about zero.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Vibe on January 20, 2015, 12:34:18 pm
Yeah that necessarily isn't a bad thing. For one here in Slovenia there should be way more people imprisoned yet our glorious judicial system thinks these criminals would be better off free.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 20, 2015, 01:12:26 pm
If you're interested in the justice system in US and why there is so many people in prison there, I strongly advice you to watch the documentary "Gideon's army". It is great and powerfull!

But the thing, I wonder is where do USA find all this money for prison, here in Switzerland, I think that politicians would be glad to put more people in prison but we simply dont have enough money (rare thing to hear from swiss) to build prison and all our prison are already overcrowded. I am sure the jews are the one paying to put americans in prison  :lol:
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Tibe on January 20, 2015, 02:21:17 pm
This doesnt prove shit. Like Vibe said, in quite few of these countries, being more red in this map would be an actual improvement. I highly doubt that the fact that the republic of Kongo being green and Norway being yellow, means that Kongo is inevitably a better country. Since when did not putting people behind bars become a standard for success? :lol: Id understand if we counted political prisoners per country, that measures fredum at some degree. Also some countries unfortunately drawn more powerful crimesyndicates than some others.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Falka on January 20, 2015, 04:07:13 pm
This doesnt prove shit.

If we compare west european countries with Africa, sure, it doesn't say much. BUt USA having approximately 10 times more prisoners per capita than Germany, well, I think it says sth about both of those countries.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Utrakil on January 20, 2015, 04:15:53 pm
If we compare west european countries with Africa, sure, it doesn't say much. BUt USA having approximately 10 times more prisoners per capita than Germany, well, I think it says sth about both of those countries.
It shows that germany is full of not locked up criminals. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Tibe on January 20, 2015, 04:27:10 pm
If we compare west european countries with Africa, sure, it doesn't say much. BUt USA having approximately 10 times more prisoners per capita than Germany, well, I think it says sth about both of those countries.
What does it say? It can state that US education or immigrationpolicies are crap. Nothing else really. Being the "world leader" brings a lot of shit a long with it aswell, some shit that countries like Germany barely ever have to touch. And thats not always the countries own fault. Im not saying that they arent incompentent. God no, they so are. :D But when it comes down to it, slums filled with gangs are almost impossible to avoid for the US, kinda like cocaneproduction in South-America is almost impossible to stop, nomatter what policies and countries work together to stop it.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Tibe on January 20, 2015, 04:38:26 pm
"The white people dream...." :lol:
I too live the white people dream.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: LordBerenger on January 20, 2015, 08:21:08 pm
Surprise? Countries with biggest populations has most prisoners. (Cept China but instead all criminals starve to death/get executed).
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: [ptx] on January 20, 2015, 08:36:12 pm
Ummm, what?
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Xant on January 20, 2015, 09:00:26 pm
Surprise? Countries with biggest populations has most prisoners. (Cept China but instead all criminals starve to death/get executed).
Not sure if serious.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 20, 2015, 09:20:36 pm
Surprise? Countries with biggest populations has most prisoners. (Cept China but instead all criminals starve to death/get executed).

hm
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 20, 2015, 09:48:55 pm
There are much more pressing issues at hand. I mean, look at these maps. What does that say about this so called "free country" huh?

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Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: [ptx] on January 20, 2015, 09:52:37 pm
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Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 20, 2015, 10:27:24 pm
Surprise? Countries with biggest populations has most prisoners. (Cept China but instead all criminals starve to death/get executed).
The scale is "Prison Population per 100,000 people".

For those who thinks "gideon's army" is TL:TW. In short:
First point of the film:
-The justice procedure is so expensive that for poor people, it is preferable to plead guilty even if they're not. And because of the system where if you re proved guilty and you didn't plead guilty at the start, you'll get crazy sentence, people plead guilty just by fear even when they're not.
Second point (actually, i don't know if it was in the film or during the interview of the director):
-As police puts more pressure on minorities and poor neighboorhood. And that, they have terrible condamnation for ridiculous infraction like breaking window. It is a ggod way, to put the minorities in prison.

For exemple, you should probably be able to find weed on white teenagers but police just doesnt search in their pocket so they dont arrest them but they will arrest a lot of blacks because they have also weed and get searched more often.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Tibe on January 20, 2015, 11:11:34 pm
Well there is logic behind it. Im just saying..... Poor neighbourhoods are generally places where brutal violence takes place. A lot of drugs are produced in these areas aswell btw, cause the people need the money and are willing to risk it. Obviously the police is more present in the area where more crime is present. Why the hell would it spend its resource in a whitebread suburb where there hasnt been a break-in or murder in 5 years? Its common logic, its not racism or some special systemorder. I dont think ghettos exsist because the racist classpolice came, beat up the hard working people of the area for nothing and took all their money. Thats, really dont think thats how it works.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 21, 2015, 01:15:57 am
I don't think that's how it work either. But neither do I think that the justice system and the police are helping or making the situation better in the ghetto. Because when you bring people down (by closing their buisness, making them pay enormous fine) for stupid minor infregment, you're not helping them to go out of the street, on the opposite, you're pushing those who were on the line in the street.

But of course, for murder the police should interviene, I'm not talking about that. You should really watch this documentary to know what I'm talking about. It is less leftish than the way I'm talking, it's simply expose things the way they are.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: _schizo321437 on January 23, 2015, 01:56:30 pm
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Prison Population per 100,000 people


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[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: LordBerenger on January 23, 2015, 03:05:13 pm
Also Australia is wrong. Everyone is a prisoner there since Australia itself is a prison.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Tibe on January 23, 2015, 03:39:28 pm
I don't think that's how it work either. But neither do I think that the justice system and the police are helping or making the situation better in the ghetto. Because when you bring people down (by closing their buisness, making them pay enormous fine) for stupid minor infregment, you're not helping them to go out of the street, on the opposite, you're pushing those who were on the line in the street.
Ye, and if you do the opposite theres criminals roaming around everywhere. Petty crimes might seem like petty crimes to you, but they are a really serius issue, if not dealt with properly. My country used to take petty crimes lightly aswell. Things like drunk drivers, bribing, constant break-ins to just about everything you owned was a norm. You got very little jail sentence or none at all for doing all that. What you are talking about is things like taxevasion and buisness owning, which is more of a white collar issue. Most people in jail in US have never been buisness owners or "minor infregment" offenders.  :lol: But stuff like drug possession etc. People who are on the streets from birth, are the majority on inmates in US, not people that were pushed there from their cosy lives. So the problem lies elswhere.

Not everyone can be Nordic and provide their inmates better lives than most countries average citizens.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Kafein on January 23, 2015, 08:15:20 pm
This doesnt prove shit. Like Vibe said, in quite few of these countries, being more red in this map would be an actual improvement. I highly doubt that the fact that the republic of Kongo being green and Norway being yellow, means that Kongo is inevitably a better country. Since when did not putting people behind bars become a standard for success? :lol: Id understand if we counted political prisoners per country, that measures fredum at some degree. Also some countries unfortunately drawn more powerful crimesyndicates than some others.

The map doesn't really express how retarded the US system really is. The point about mental institutions is completely correct, people do not get mental treatment and go to jail instead. The point about prison for drug "offenses" is correct as well, it puts a shitload of mostly harmless individuals in prisons where they cost a lot of money and produce zero value. Then you have the point about privatization which is really the worst of all.

Sending people in prison is a failure to treat them in a more adapted (and less costly!) way. Of course people that represent a danger need to be locked up, but that is already being done in every civilized country, the US being not that great in that department.

Going after small crimes with mandatory prison sentences is the typical populist bullshit. It merely appeals to the general disgust towards petty criminals without any basis in rationality. Prison is the most costly punishment, and the best way to avoid that cost is to put only the people who need it in prison, not to reduce the cost of prison and especially not to create powerful lobbies whose interest lies against the interests of society at large. In many other countries, the lack of will to modernize the punishment system is one of the causes of over-population in prisons, which ends up causing the judges to stop issuing prison sentences for small crimes. It's precisely the use of prisons that is an obstacle to creating a more lawful environment. When alternative systems exist and work perfectly well, that's a shame.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Xant on January 23, 2015, 08:34:19 pm
In a country ruled by me, there'd be no prisons. The cost of a criminal to the state would be approximately 15 cents.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 23, 2015, 09:08:23 pm
What you are talking about is things like taxevasion and buisness owning, which is more of a white collar issue. Most people in jail in US have never been buisness owners or "minor infregment" offenders.  :lol: But stuff like drug possession etc. People who are on the streets from birth, are the majority on inmates in US, not people that were pushed there from their cosy lives. So the problem lies elswhere.
No, I was talking about "the poor middle class" (the way it only exists in anglo-saxon country), people who own like tabacco shop, cleaning lady, etc. That also get problem with polices because of the arrassement of the minorities (everybody does minor infregments,so when police is focusing you, you end up getting caught once). And as the punishment for any infregment is so harsch in US, it makes you unable to go back to back to society after your punishment.

I think that the fact that the justice system makes people unable to reenter the society is the major problem in US. That's why US gets one of the biggest amount of recidivism. Because they only think about punishment and not about reinsertion.

Not everyone can be Nordic and provide their inmates better lives than most countries average citizens.

The point is that nordic focus on reinsertion so they have the lowest amount of recidivism in the world so in the end their prison system doesnt cost more than other country.
Also they care a lot about the youth so less of them are taking a bad path. (and youth taking the wrong path is ofc one of the major cause of prison filling)
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: _schizo321437 on January 23, 2015, 09:24:32 pm
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Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on January 23, 2015, 10:05:54 pm
In a country ruled by me

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Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: LordBerenger on January 23, 2015, 10:17:14 pm

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Inb4 Panos comes and rapes ur ass
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Tore on January 24, 2015, 12:21:40 am
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Prison Population per 100,000 people

look mom i posted it again xD
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: Siiem on January 24, 2015, 02:38:25 am

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Glorious Norway.

Inb4 no data available.
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 24, 2015, 07:47:01 am
In a country ruled by me,

oh lordy please no
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: _schizo321437 on January 24, 2015, 02:16:10 pm
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 :wink:
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on January 24, 2015, 02:28:31 pm
Freedom is humanity's greatest lie
Title: Re: Country of freedom
Post by: LordBerenger on January 24, 2015, 03:52:03 pm
Freedom is humanity's greatest lie

Better live in a world where there is total peace and justice than a world where there is total freedom but chaos and anarchy.



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