cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Tequnique on May 22, 2011, 11:29:39 am

Title: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 22, 2011, 11:29:39 am
I've read through a few suggestions - and I think this subject needs loving for sure.
The hammer is simply too powerful against shields - 10/10 times Im getting hit im dead THROUGH my shield.
The singlehand hammer is has a percentage knockdown ability. Maybe 30% chance of knockdown - whilst the Lolhammer has a 100% crushthrough instakill against my 49 armor and shield... It's just not realistic nor playable.
The damn thing can change direction in midflight like you where wielding a piece of paper... - once such a weapon has a vector - it should be hard to redirect its force - however - that I consider least of matters...

a) A simple solution, I believe, is to simply make the weapon knock you down - through a sheild or block  - like a horse hits you.
b) Another simple  is increase the weaponknockdown probability approx x2 of the 1-H weapons (Foreach point weapon damage = 1.5% KnockD)
c) Third solution is a stun effect - where the receiver is unable to counter attack for approx 0.4 Seconds.

Secondary solutions (more complicated ones)
a) Hitting a shield with the hammer-  the knockdown & damage only occurs as with horses - you need momentum to perform it - and you can only knock down if you have forward momentum. - if you stand still and swing you will not knockdown or do damage - but slightly stun the victim - making him unable to counter.
b) Parrying the LOL w/ 2h. If the LOL has momentum = knockdown and damage. If no/less momentum  = stun and slight damage.
c) Once the LOL has momentum it is not able to redirect it - making other weapons - weapons of choice in open encounters.

Tertiary suggestions
a) KnockD chance based on total damage modifier (strength + weapondam +momentum = %KnockD)

What do you guys think? Totally off mark?
 
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Cyclopsided on May 22, 2011, 11:42:06 am
What is the lolhammer
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Momo on May 22, 2011, 11:52:21 am
stopp QQ, 2 handers lost 70% of their cursh weapons and now you complain about the survivors? look at just the great maul, it's req is !!!!20!!! fucking str...
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: bosco on May 22, 2011, 11:58:45 am
Part-time lolhammer user and current shielder here, what works best for (and against) me is to put the shield on your back and try to get a hit in while the mauler prepares his swing. If you've got decent speed you can spam him because his weapon is so slow.  :twisted:
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: rustyspoon on May 22, 2011, 01:53:16 pm
Quote from: bosco on May 22, 2011, 11:58:45 am
Part-time lolhammer user and current shielder here, what works best for (and against) me is to put the shield on your back and try to get a hit in while the mauler prepares his swing. If you've got decent speed you can spam him because his weapon is so slow.  :twisted:

^^this.

You don't even need to put the shield on your back. Just block the sideswings and spam the shit out of him. One dead hammer user.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 22, 2011, 03:14:45 pm
Thx for the reply... however Im not concerned about the one on one situations -
What IM refering to is situations where you are moving into, for example, a chokepoint - in front of me are a few 2-h and some 1-h with shield..
All at the sudden - a lol-man is approaching from behind the ranks as I block one of the others and kills me in one shot...
If I had been knocked down by it - One of my mates could have covered my as I was down - however - I didnt even have a chance to recover...

Another situation is - Im fighting with 3 guys - doing fine - from the side a LOL-man is running up there is no option but to block him  - and im dead.

Even in one on one - its very hard if the LOLman is good...
Especially if he is fast too - as he chambers his hammer - then keep the range - waiting me to enter.
As I specialize in 1-H - I have to wait for him to enter - or get LOL'ed - as I have to block to close the gap - and even when I close he just keeps the spacing backwards - so he manage to chamber another - and im dead again. Really nazti shit.

By doing the changes I mentioned - it can STILL be an effective weapon - as you may stun or knockdown your opponent...
but to kill in one blow - just blows...
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Thucydides on May 22, 2011, 03:21:28 pm
you are a terrible player with terrrible battle sense. Avoid those chokepoints and let the archers shoot into it, OR FLANK?
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: rustyspoon on May 22, 2011, 03:36:24 pm
Hammers are designed to be fantastic support weapons and you're complaining when someone is using it to great advantage as a support weapon?
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 22, 2011, 06:58:35 pm
I do admit that the Long Maul has a murderous crushthrough, but luckily it is slow enough that if you keep "your eye on the ball" you should be able to sidestep and have him miss most of the time.

I usually just treat it as a particular weapon that I should avoid when playing my shielder, and am content with the fact that they will suffer against most other 2Hers or archers in battle.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: OzyTheSage on May 22, 2011, 07:34:49 pm
Quote from: Tears_of_Destiny on May 22, 2011, 06:58:35 pm
I do admit that the Long Maul has a murderous crushthrough, but luckily it is slow enough that if you keep "your eye on the ball" you should be able to sidestep and have him miss most of the time.

The problem I've found with any weapon is that with an overhead swing they are able to just turn into you or slide their weapon across the ground at the end of the animation into your feet and it will do full damage as if they had actually swung at your feet.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Diavolo on May 22, 2011, 08:10:16 pm
The lolhammer is the only true great counter against a turtle shielder in melee. The lolhammer is supposed to be a support weapon able to crush through enemy shielders your friends have a problem with. However, both for the sake of realism and balance, I suggest one makes the lolhammer unable to block. In real life its a lot easier to block with a dagger than with a heavy weapon like the lolhammer. Also making the lolhammer not able to block would place it right where it belongs: as a support weapon to pop out from behind an ally and deal a crushing blow on a turtle shielder. For the sake of variety, realism and fun, keep the amazing destructive power of the lolhammer, and rather remove something unrealistic from the game. (blocking with the lolhammer, if my sentences were a bit hard to understand)
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 22, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
Quote from: Diavolo on May 22, 2011, 08:10:16 pm
The lolhammer is the only true great counter against a turtle shielder in melee. The lolhammer is supposed to be a support weapon able to crush through enemy shielders your friends have a problem with. However, both for the sake of realism and balance, I suggest one makes the lolhammer unable to block. In real life its a lot easier to block with a dagger than with a heavy weapon like the lolhammer. Also making the lolhammer not able to block would place it right where it belongs: as a support weapon to pop out from behind an ally and deal a crushing blow on a turtle shielder. For the sake of variety, realism and fun, keep the amazing destructive power of the lolhammer, and rather remove something unrealistic from the game. (blocking with the lolhammer, if my sentences were a bit hard to understand)

I agree on this one - with a slight adjustment:
a) Not REMOVE block - but SLOW block.
b) Knock down through shield/block - less damage.

If you allow knockdown - you must swing x2 to kill - as he is on the ground. But regardless - it is a huge advantage.
By slowing down blockrate - you will use it for support as you said.. good call.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: EponiCo on May 22, 2011, 11:12:46 pm
You can't slow down block.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: zagibu on May 23, 2011, 02:14:27 am
If you remove block, you can also remove the whole weapon, because no one will use it anymore. The long maul is so slow that even if I block 1h or 2h, they still can strike again before i have prepared another swing. The great maul is a bit faster, but you can easily feint it, they are drilled to block once -> overhead.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Akincibegi on May 23, 2011, 02:35:36 am
Quote from: Momo on May 22, 2011, 11:52:21 am
stopp QQ, 2 handers lost 70% of their cursh weapons and now you complain about the survivors? look at just the great maul, it's req is !!!!20!!! fucking str...
u can go for 21 str 18 agi for being a effective 2h and u can use your hammer too.so no need to complein.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Sir_Mateusz on May 23, 2011, 03:32:26 am
Crushthrough should be removed. Its too op and annoying. Noobs with lolhammers don't need any skills or practice to kill other players its just overhead strike, overhead strike, overhead strike, overhead strike, overhead strike, and think they are cool.
Knockdown is ok.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Gurnisson on May 23, 2011, 03:58:24 am
Quote from: Sir_Mateusz on May 23, 2011, 03:32:26 am
Crushthrough should be removed. Its too op and annoying. Noobs with lolhammers don't need any skills or practice to kill other players its just overhead strike, overhead strike, overhead strike, overhead strike, overhead strike, and think they are cool.
Knockdown is ok.

Crushthrough is fine, now when only the mauls have it. When we had fast crushthrough weapons, things were ridiculous. Also, saying noobs with lolhammers don't need any skill to kill is wrong. They will only kill other noobs, because good players know how to counter hammers.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Furax on May 23, 2011, 05:27:26 am
Ive hammered a few heads lately, only with cloth armour are you not getting outspammed by everyone with whatever. There are no shorter and slower weapons than the mauls, the long maul has some range, but still outranged by all pole and most 2handers(also you could be outspammed by a 3agi build using that thing).


Whilst I agree the barmace and before that morningstar was overpowered, the remaining crushthrough weapons are fine. And if your getting killed by crushthrough people more often than arrows, swords, lances or bolts you must be actively seeking out theese hammer-men, cause there are not many.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Casimir on May 23, 2011, 10:12:47 am
Lets remove CT altogether and all run around with huscarls!

Yay for playing how you want!

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Vibe on May 23, 2011, 11:36:43 am
fight crushthrough with spam
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: v/onMega on May 23, 2011, 12:14:25 pm
Getting kills with a great maul actually isnt that easy :-)

Last thing a victim will see is the overhead hiting him, yes.
What they mostly forget is:
You need to get to a good position, you need timing (more as with any other weapon), footwork ando awareness.

GreatMaul surely demands much more than many would admit.

Crushthrough got a really really  rare sight, keep it how it is. Allready enough downsides.

Whine about mauls is so 2010 btw... xD
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Elmetiacos on May 23, 2011, 01:00:31 pm
Quote from: Marathon on May 22, 2011, 11:42:06 am
What is the lolhammer
Weapons that crush through blocks like the Mallet, Great Maul and Long Maul are nicknamed "lolhammer".
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Joseph on May 23, 2011, 10:58:15 pm
Quote from: Diavolo on May 22, 2011, 08:10:16 pm
The lolhammer is the only true great counter against a turtle shielder in melee. The lolhammer is supposed to be a support weapon able to crush through enemy shielders your friends have a problem with. However, both for the sake of realism and balance, I suggest one makes the lolhammer unable to block. In real life its a lot easier to block with a dagger than with a heavy weapon like the lolhammer. Also making the lolhammer not able to block would place it right where it belongs: as a support weapon to pop out from behind an ally and deal a crushing blow on a turtle shielder. For the sake of variety, realism and fun, keep the amazing destructive power of the lolhammer, and rather remove something unrealistic from the game. (blocking with the lolhammer, if my sentences were a bit hard to understand)

Can you tell me what is realistic in this game?  :|
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 24, 2011, 02:30:28 am
Quote from: v/onMega on May 23, 2011, 12:14:25 pm
Getting kills with a great maul actually isnt that easy :-)

Last thing a victim will see is the overhead hiting him, yes.
What they mostly forget is:
You need to get to a good position, you need timing (more as with any other weapon), footwork ando awareness.

GreatMaul surely demands much more than many would admit.

Crushthrough got a really really  rare sight, keep it how it is. Allready enough downsides.

Whine about mauls is so 2010 btw... xD

It's not really whining :)
I would call it feedback.
Everytime I see a LOLhammer I try to avoid confrontation if im using a 1-h and shield.
I find my self a somewhat slighty above the average player - and on a good day I can easily deal with most 1-h and 2-h weapons by moving in and closing the distance - and then eventually find an opening in the opponents defenses.
On the maul - however - I find it disturbingly hard.
I don't really see how a knockdown instead of instakill would make the maul a less weapon of choice.
You could even add some damage in there - but instant kill through armor and shield? Common...
A knockdown would still be a great disadvantage for the receiver.
As a trade off for the counter-whiners - you could even increase the speed of the damn thing - I don't care - just let me survive a hit through my shield (God damn it ) :D

I am quite sure that most of the maul defenders here  are dedicated users btw ;) No?

Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: DarkFox on May 24, 2011, 02:34:19 am
Quote from: Casimir on May 23, 2011, 10:12:47 am
(click to show/hide)
lol so true :lol:
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 24, 2011, 03:01:20 am
Quote from: Casimir on May 23, 2011, 10:12:47 am
Lets remove CT altogether and all run around with huscarls!

Yay for playing how you want!

(click to show/hide)

Mature response heh? :)
If you manage to stop a maul when you are fighting 1 or more enemies with 1-H - make me a video on xfire or youtube plz.
Of course 1 vs 1 maul is less of a threat... But still - if the wielder has better speed - he can do his little - Overhead > retreat > overhead - making sure his out of range as you enter - and if you don't have the speed - he can hit you 100% if he is good.

If the maul does an instakill vs 2h blocks... I don't care that much - cause as you say - the 2-h and polearms outrange and outspeed the maul - so you should be able to hit him first.


Somebody asked - What is realistic about this game?
It's not actually not that unrealistic.
I've been studying the arts of medieval weaponsfighting.
All though you have a lot more sophisticated moves, angles and counters - the principles are really the same only simplified.
Meaning - if you are good swordfighter - its ALL about timing and distance.
- The best is to hit the opponent as he chamber his weapon -called pre-emptive attack
- secondary is to parry and quickly counter before he can chamber another attack.
- The lesser achievement is if you have to make several moves to penetrate his responses - as you don't want to spend too much time at one target in a multiple opponent situation.
This is the same in this game.
Of course you seldom see the formations and tight teamwork in MB as in real life - however again - the principles are the same:
When you meet a group of enemies - you try to hit the enemy to your left or right - and avoid hitting the guy in front.
IRL you got killed fairly fast - maybe somewhat faster than in this game - due to the complexity of the situation.
I guess this game wouldnt be that fun - in that sense.

What do you think my fellow whiners and counter-whiners?

Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 24, 2011, 03:08:34 am
AH .. and not surprisingly - I just got on the Duel server - and guess who is on the first place with 36 kills and 6 deaths..
Druzhina Levy with a --- LOLhammer :)
Im trying to beat him now ... and even if I try to spam him with 1-h (warhammer) I can't get him before he manage to overhead me.
On one occation I hit him 3 times.. but his armor shrugged it off.

EDIT: he is now at 47 - 7 :)

EDIT2: 57-8... And his fighting good people with 2-h ...
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tzar on May 24, 2011, 03:14:24 am
QQ
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Burr1ck on May 24, 2011, 04:10:54 am
Pointless thread, CT has been on hammers since day 1 of cRPG and I highly doubt it would be removed as the weapen's made to smash through stuff :D. I'm pretty sure the devs looked through it extensively: the damage, length and speed of the Great Maul has been nerfed a while ago.

Being an ancient player on cRPG who used the 2h hammer since day 1, I can confidently say that the Great Maul is a very difficult weapen to use:

- With a sluggish 70ish speed, there's very little room for error: miss a swing will end you you getting spammed to bits.
- Being unbalanced, feinting is near impossible so good luck trying to trick a good blocker with side swings :D.
- Being very short at just 68 length, enemies will simply backpedal,run away and dodge from you so good luck landing in overheads  :D. The short length forces the mauler to enage in close quaters: a highly dangerous position where you can get easily attacked from all sides, good luck survivng that.

Which is why you don't see many people running around with 2h hammers.


Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: zagibu on May 24, 2011, 11:59:24 pm
Quote from: Burr1ck on May 24, 2011, 04:10:54 am

- Being unbalanced, feinting is near impossible so good luck trying to trick a good blocker with side swings :D.

You don't need feinting, when you can crush through blocks.

But as i've said before, I don't think CT should be removed.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: HarunYahya on May 25, 2011, 12:20:24 am
Dude...
It is easy to kill pikeman,archer,most of the shielders(There are lots of unskilled shielders out there...) and maul users on 1h1 and they all cause trouble when they have friends around and ganking you.Shall we remove them all ?
Increase your mouse sensitivity,practice some footwork on duel servers. Watch your back all the time,stay with your group and most important thing is do not try to be Chuck Norris you aint gonna save the world, you are not hero .
Try some teamwork.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Atreides on May 25, 2011, 03:03:34 am
A better suggestion would be to avoid hammers when you see them...
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 27, 2011, 12:22:03 am
Teamwork  works - of course for both sides.
Well - I think my suggestions is good..'
Knock down - not crush through when shield....
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tzar on May 27, 2011, 12:38:17 am
Quote from: Tequnique on May 27, 2011, 12:22:03 am
Teamwork  works - of course for both sides.
Well - I think my suggestions is good..'
Knock down - not crush through when shield....

No.

 :idea: Solution learn to play Maul/Mallet/Great maul have been in native mount & blade since day 1 and still is for a reason they add flavor to the battlefield

We dont care about you and that you too lasy to learn normal backpedal and spam to counter the slowest weapon ingame with the shortest reach of all time....

Also if they where so awesome as you say why is it that you hardly see more than 2 or 3 players on the entire battle server with 120 players using one??

/End thread
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Casimir on May 27, 2011, 01:25:48 am
The above average player will know not to take a warhammer against a maul unless they really know how to handle it.

The last long maul nerf was final straw for me, the weapon is now to sliw, has less reach and less damage aswell as using crappy polearm animations.

Im bot surprised that there are almost not long mauls being used in cRPG anymore thanks to all yhe lobbying from incompetent people like you.

A good player like DimaUrban will tell you what OP and whats not, just cos YOU cant beat it doesnt mean its unbeatable.

FYI i played 1h shield last gen and had no issues defeating mallet users.

1v1 is a joke, in a battle just rish + flank and left swing spam. You will only lose if u fuck up.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Malaclypse on May 27, 2011, 02:45:05 am
Hammers can be annoying, but I don't find anything wrong with them. Use a steel shield if you don't already, the weight will help to avoid crush-through. Otherwise, fight smarter. Don't go up against 3 on 1 situations where a maul can jump out and one shot you. It's a team game, and unless you're lucky or skilled, you're going to get killed when the odds are against you.

Honestly, it's slow, it's short. Dodge it, spam them, or kick when they initially approach you.
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on May 27, 2011, 10:15:47 am
lol hammers are not OP

u can block them with enough strength or with enough body armor of your shield. and btw only people who dont know how to deal with a lolhammmerer cry about the 'awwwwweful meany cruel crushthrough' seriously leave lolhammers the way theay are...everything is quite balanced now i think
Title: Re: Lolhammers - again
Post by: Tequnique on May 27, 2011, 01:28:58 pm
Many wise answers :)
So I present you all a challenge -
Make a video of you repeatedly defeating a skilled Lolhammer build opponent at equal level-
You should arm 1-h and sheild.
Then make a video defeating him with 2-H

Polearms I dont care that much for - thats easier.

If you do it - ill dry my tears :)

Thank you!