cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Grumbs on September 29, 2014, 09:44:24 pm

Title: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Grumbs on September 29, 2014, 09:44:24 pm
Is Melee a class or is it rangeless/cavless Melee?

Time to give some incentives to play melee as an actual class rather than as castrated ranged/cav
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Torben on September 29, 2014, 10:02:53 pm
Is Melee a class or is it rangeless/cavless Melee?

Time to give some incentives to play melee as an actual class rather than as castrated ranged/cav

back when ranged couldnt melee there was qq about them running not fighting.  now that they can fight there is qqing about them not running but fighting?
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Penitent on September 29, 2014, 10:08:27 pm
There will always be qq.  Based on my exhaustive observations of CRPG over the years, qq is the essence....of everything.

There is no need to qq, but then again there is no need to let qq vex you.  QQ just is.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Kafein on September 29, 2014, 10:09:50 pm
back when ranged couldnt melee there was qq about them running not fighting.  now that they can fight there is qqing about them not running but fighting?

The argument is that fighting is still a choice, because running is a viable option even though it should not, and defending oneself in melee is too easy. Most of the ranged players who choose not to run are good enough players to best whoever is pursuing them in melee with a ranged build, or at least survive for enough time to get help.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Algarn on September 29, 2014, 10:16:34 pm
The argument is that fighting is still a choice, because running is a viable option even though it should not, and defending oneself in melee is too easy. Most of the ranged players who choose not to run are good enough players to best whoever is pursuing them in melee with a ranged build, or at least survive for enough time to get help.

Does it means a ranged player cannot get help by running to teammates ?

Also, yay, another "nerf ranged" thread. Can these forums ever have enough of these "nerf ranged" threads ?

I know I will get some nice hate there, but destroying archery/crossbows will just make the game become a cav fest. The only OP class here is HA,  and besides this class, you can catch and kill the average ranged player in one or two hits. Only crossbowmen have the power to get a lot of wpf in melee ( and even take a shield to higher levels).
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on September 29, 2014, 10:19:45 pm
Because melee is to most people still the most fun class to play.

As for the rage at ranged and cav, apart from Eldar (who I believe to be high level?) I could honestly not give you any more names of ranged who will consistently top the score board.

As for cav, being constrained mostly to battle puts them out on a limb in my eyes

EDIT: Sorry Algarn!
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Algarn on September 29, 2014, 10:21:57 pm
Because melee is to most people still the most fun class to play.

As for the rage at ranged and cav, apart from Eldar (who I believe to be high level?) I could honestly not give you any more names of ranged who will consistently top the score board.

Steevee, Nebun, Shokoshugi, Austriano, ... And all these people are screwed 80% of time when they are caught into melee.  Sure, short swords are viable weapons, but are they really OP ? Do you top a server with 40 wpf in 1H and 6 PS ?
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Kafein on September 29, 2014, 10:23:04 pm
Does it means a ranged player cannot get help by running to teammates ?

It means ranged should not have invulnerability to melee. We had to fight for months to get ladder cancer patched out, it's essentially the same thing.

Also, yay, another "nerf ranged" thread. Can these forums ever have enough of these "nerf ranged" threads ?

And you keep on making these retarded posts devoid of any actual argument whenever a "nerf ranged" thread comes up.

I know I will get some nice hate there, but destroying archery/crossbows will just make the game become a cav fest. The only OP class here is HA,  and besides this class, you can catch and kill the average ranged player in one or two hits.

Except if he's running towards his teammates, duh.

By the way I personally would love to see all ranged replaced by melee cav. I'd just get a spear and murder them.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: darmaster on September 29, 2014, 10:26:56 pm
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Grumbs on September 29, 2014, 10:27:23 pm
back when ranged couldnt melee there was qq about them running not fighting.  now that they can fight there is qqing about them not running but fighting?

Nope they kite as much as they can still, and got -6 weight reduction recently too. They only use melee when they are forced to be a melee role

Also look at player numbers and see this is not a viable melee game. Who wants to play a melee game when it is dominated by left clicking ranged, even ranged on horseback with unlimited kiting?
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Algarn on September 29, 2014, 10:29:01 pm
It means ranged should not have invulnerability to melee. We had to fight for months to get ladder cancer patched out, it's essentially the same thing.

And you keep on making these retarded posts devoid of any actual argument whenever a "nerf ranged" thread comes up.

Except if he's running towards his teammates, duh.

By the way I personally would love to see all ranged replaced by melee cav. I'd just get a spear and murder them.

Ranged are actually my prey on my melee character, just saying. They are shit when they actually have to fight.


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Penitent on September 29, 2014, 10:33:05 pm
Wait, are people taking this thread seriously?
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: NejStark on September 29, 2014, 10:36:40 pm
Nerf everyone who isnt the same class as me, and is on the other team, imo.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Krex on September 29, 2014, 11:03:55 pm
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Oh please,the wifi boy has nothing to do with this....
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 29, 2014, 11:14:11 pm
Steevee, Nebun, Shokoshugi, Austriano, ... And all these people are screwed 80% of time when they are caught into melee.  Sure, short swords are viable weapons, but are they really OP ? Do you top a server with 40 wpf in 1H and 6 PS ?

god I've seen you rock that 40 wpf and 6 ps much with that little SAS :P

on my lvl 32 xbow alt, whom i didnt know would get to lvl 32, is 15/24 with 6 shield and 5 ps. with +3 crossbow and steel bolts plus my +3 spathion it is not too hard to hit the top 3 of the scoreboard as long as i survive long enough. I when I want to reload though, HA's keep shooting at me, and i cant run anywhere safe :|

most of the HA's in EU 1 tank 4 to 5 of my +3 crossbow and +3 steel bolt hits(rider takes max 3, but horse 3 to 5), but can easily 2hit me, with 45 armor and 2 if.

dis.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Kaido on September 29, 2014, 11:18:08 pm
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: darmaster on September 30, 2014, 12:02:53 am
derail? derail

Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: karasu on September 30, 2014, 12:07:24 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Prpavi on September 30, 2014, 12:09:20 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: darmaster on September 30, 2014, 12:09:29 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Prpavi on September 30, 2014, 12:11:02 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Algarn on September 30, 2014, 12:11:29 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: darmaster on September 30, 2014, 12:11:58 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Kaido on September 30, 2014, 12:37:34 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Grumbs on September 30, 2014, 12:37:50 am
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Please make melee a real class rather than half ranged/cav
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: karasu on September 30, 2014, 12:41:13 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Macropus on September 30, 2014, 12:58:28 am
Seems like Grumbs felt like posting this in every balance thread wasn't enough, so he made a separate one.
Melee is a class. Other classes being able to fight in melee doesn't make pure melee any less of a class.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Grumbs on September 30, 2014, 01:13:04 am
Seems like Grumbs felt like posting this in every balance thread wasn't enough, so he made a separate one.
Melee is a class. Other classes being able to fight in melee doesn't make pure melee any less of a class.

Melee can't be ranged or cav, yet ranged and cav are 90% of what melee are when in a melee role. This is my main gripe. Melee are not a real class
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Macropus on September 30, 2014, 01:25:38 am
Melee can't be ranged or cav, yet ranged and cav are 90% of what melee are when in a melee role.
It sounds like it tries to be logical, but no, it doesn't make any sense if you actually give it a thought.
And no, it's not 90%. How did you count it by the way?
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Butan on September 30, 2014, 01:25:46 am
Lets add a 0 sucky power draw bow and a 0 sucky riding skill horse (already done) so that we can end this pitiful argument.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Okkam on September 30, 2014, 06:21:35 am
Lets add a 0 sucky power draw bow and a 0 sucky riding skill horse (already done) so that we can end this pitiful argument.

we already have crossbows and stones. Every cannon fodder can use it without any investments.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Jona on September 30, 2014, 06:46:19 am
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Must... always... heed... the... call...

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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: sF_Guardian on September 30, 2014, 07:27:03 am
May I introduce Donkey and Crossbows to you?
Melee can both be cav and ranged.
What's this fuzz about then?
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: jtobiasm on September 30, 2014, 09:21:57 am
Grumbs you constantly say all ranged is, is left clicking. I can guarantee you would not be any help to your team if you played ranged. You might get a good score  1 map every 10 but what's a good score mean if you're on x1 all the time?? Oh yeah means fuck all
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Berserkadin on September 30, 2014, 11:01:03 am
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Umbra on September 30, 2014, 11:11:49 am
Lets be real tho, ranged and cav are still much weaker than melee in this game. Sure they might be annoying at times and help the team but we all know where most of the kills are.

I think archers should get a slight buff to draw speed across the high tier bows and a buff to damage on low tier bows (they barely do anything against armor). Now that the ranged stun is nerfed their impact on the team is even lower so a buff at least to damage should be justified. Maybe a missle speed buff for yumi.

Cav is also much less mobile than before, they heav cav can barely manouver properly, i suggest a buff to high tier horse manouver and also a buff to HA accuracy and damage, they do like 0 damage to armoured melee.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Molly on September 30, 2014, 11:24:12 am
Lets be real tho, ranged and cav are still much weaker than melee in this game. Sure they might be annoying at times and help the team but we all know where most of the kills are.

I think archers should get a slight buff to draw speed across the high tier bows and a buff to damage on low tier bows (they barely do anything against armor). Now that the ranged stun is nerfed their impact on the team is even lower so a buff at least to damage should be justified. Maybe a missle speed buff for yumi.

Cav is also much less mobile than before, they heav cav can barely manouver properly, i suggest a buff to high tier horse manouver and also a buff to HA accuracy and damage, they do like 0 damage to armoured melee.

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Shut up u whore cunt!

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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Prpavi on September 30, 2014, 12:31:00 pm
Lets be real tho, ranged and cav are still much weaker than melee in this game. Sure they might be annoying at times and help the team but we all know where most of the kills are.

I think archers should get a slight buff to draw speed across the high tier bows and a buff to damage on low tier bows (they barely do anything against armor). Now that the ranged stun is nerfed their impact on the team is even lower so a buff at least to damage should be justified. Maybe a missle speed buff for yumi.

Cav is also much less mobile than before, they heav cav can barely manouver properly, i suggest a buff to high tier horse manouver and also a buff to HA accuracy and damage, they do like 0 damage to armoured melee.

(click to show/hide)

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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Butan on September 30, 2014, 02:28:49 pm
we already have crossbows and stones. Every cannon fodder can use it without any investments.

You're quite right.


Thus Cavalry and Ranged are not a class in cRPG, since any melee can shoot bolts and throw stones and travel on a mighty donkey.
We only need an improvised Short Bow which would require 0 power draw and does ~10 cut damage and we will successfully have removed all classes from cRPG.



In all seriousness, every classes have easy hybridization choices, its all a matter of being supremely efficient in one path, excellent in two, or good in more.
Then add individual skill on top and you got +oo scenarii where there is no such thing as "the ultimate being" but being good at what you do.


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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Phew on September 30, 2014, 03:49:24 pm
There is a melee server: play on it and stop b!tching about ranged and cav.

SIEGE 4 LYFE

OK, siege has ranged, but they are irrelevant to the outcome of the round. And Cav are so rare it's a fun novelty when someone rides a horse around inside the castle.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Zanze on September 30, 2014, 05:24:02 pm
We only need an improvised Short Bow which would require 0 power draw and does ~10 cut damage and we will successfully have removed all classes from cRPG.

Grab yourself some throwing daggers. 1 PT and maybe 50-60wpf and you'll be fine. You get 8, they are thrown quickly, and each do about 28cut damage.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Sharpe on September 30, 2014, 10:29:39 pm
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Grumbs on October 01, 2014, 12:08:17 pm
Grumbs you constantly say all ranged is, is left clicking. I can guarantee you would not be any help to your team if you played ranged. You might get a good score  1 map every 10 but what's a good score mean if you're on x1 all the time?? Oh yeah means fuck all

I play archer on my STF. Its easy with my regular medium armour + Grosses Messer. Easy shooting mechanics + I kill most in melee
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: rufio on October 01, 2014, 12:11:08 pm
i came here to say nerf ranged, just for good old times sake
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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Sharpe on October 02, 2014, 12:46:09 am

 but they are irrelevant to the outcome of the round

I'd like to point out that this statement is kinda of bs, especially if you have some of the better archers.
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: Algarn on October 02, 2014, 01:29:52 am
I play archer on my STF. Its easy with my regular medium armour + Grosses Messer. Easy shooting mechanics + I kill most in melee

Simple curiosity, what's the name of your stf ? I never saw you playing anything else than your main, and I doubt you got some "ranged" gameplay experience, since you only talk about point and click, which is the case either of arbalest/heavy crossbows, or the case of nomad/tatar/horn bow. If you actually use the longbow or the rus bow, you will have a hard time pointing and clicking, unless you trade speed and accuracy for more missile speed and some damage from PD.

Ranged part is so easy that you get mot of your kills with your sword... Sounds like some elite and experimented archer here.

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Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: AwesomeHail on October 02, 2014, 09:31:43 am
Simple curiosity, what's the name of your stf ? I never saw you playing anything else than your main, and I doubt you got some "ranged" gameplay experience, since you only talk about point and click, which is the case either of arbalest/heavy crossbows, or the case of nomad/tatar/horn bow. If you actually use the longbow or the rus bow, you will have a hard time pointing and clicking, unless you trade speed and accuracy for more missile speed and some damage from PD.

Ranged part is so easy that you get mot of your kills with your sword... Sounds like some elite and experimented archer here.

(click to show/hide)

your build deserves a fix :C
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: AwesomeHail on October 02, 2014, 09:32:17 am
Simple curiosity, what's the name of your stf ? I never saw you playing anything else than your main, and I doubt you got some "ranged" gameplay experience, since you only talk about point and click, which is the case either of arbalest/heavy crossbows, or the case of nomad/tatar/horn bow. If you actually use the longbow or the rus bow, you will have a hard time pointing and clicking, unless you trade speed and accuracy for more missile speed and some damage from PD.

Ranged part is so easy that you get mot of your kills with your sword... Sounds like some elite and experimented archer here.

(click to show/hide)

your build deserves a fix :C

Accidental double post , sry
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: LEKIS on October 02, 2014, 02:58:08 pm
Its easy to be an alright archer, takes some skill to get good or superb.
Melee is à class and people wouldn't whine if they chose some if and str instead of their precious agility.
I can easily take 6-7 bodyshots from à longbow, and take 10 from the lower tier bows
Regarding the meleepart of archery: they might be able to survive for à while but it's not that hard to rek em'.

Tl;dr take some str and learn to block or get à shield.


Many xoxoxo
Lekis
Title: Re: Is Melee a Class in cRPG?
Post by: AwesomeHail on October 03, 2014, 06:29:07 am
Its easy to be an alright archer, takes some skill to get good or superb.
Melee is à class and people wouldn't whine if they chose some if and str instead of their precious agility.
I can easily take 6-7 bodyshots from à longbow, and take 10 from the lower tier bows
Regarding the meleepart of archery: they might be able to survive for à while but it's not that hard to rek em'.

Tl;dr take some str and learn to block or get à shield.


Many xoxoxo
Lekis

yeah but im too greedy to spend money on tincan

i need muh shekels