cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 10:56:52 am

Title: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 10:56:52 am
Guys, I'm terrible at PvP melee combat. Absolutely awful. I'm Gen 2, about to be Gen 3, and I'm still just so bad at melee that it's comical. I'm a decent shot, and in DTV melee I can hold my own, but against other players it's just pitiful. Like, I can take my level 30 2H build against an archer with some crappy sword and no PS and consistently lose. I'm not sure why I'm so awful - I'm pretty decent at similar games, like War of the Vikings and War of the Roses. I'm even okay at vanilla, though not great. But for some reason, I just don't seem to get PvP melee in cRPG.

I'm probably going back to ranged weaponry of some sort next gen, but I really do want to get better at melee so I can participate in that half of the game. Anyone have any suggestions for someone who's absolutely horrible?
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Umbra on September 10, 2014, 11:02:28 am
You should play a generation as a shielder before jumping into 2h. That should teach you when you can attack and when you cant, it should enable you to last longer in fights ( you wont learn much if you get roflstomped as 2h), and you should get some sense of block timing without worrying about direction.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Macropus on September 10, 2014, 11:16:39 am
Add me on steam - "Macropus", and contact me whenever you see me online, we could go to duel server and practice for a while to see what's wrong.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Tagora on September 10, 2014, 11:24:19 am
Quote from: Umbra on September 10, 2014, 11:02:28 am
You should play a generation as a shielder before jumping into 2h. That should teach you when you can attack and when you cant, it should enable you to last longer in fights ( you wont learn much if you get roflstomped as 2h), and you should get some sense of block timing without worrying about direction.
That's what I did.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Dooz on September 10, 2014, 11:46:17 am
Quote from: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 10:56:52 am
I'm probably going back to ranged weaponry of some sort next gen, but I really do want to get better at melee so I can participate in that half of the game. Anyone have any suggestions for someone who's absolutely horrible?

If you want to get better at melee, you have to keep playing melee, not switch to ranged. If you spend more time as ranged, you will get better at being ranged. If you play more as melee, you will get better at melee. Eventually.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Rico on September 10, 2014, 11:52:24 am
Yay noobies!

Have some tips:

Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Algarn on September 10, 2014, 12:03:45 pm
If you want to go ranged, then train yourself with a short sword on EU3 some times, and don't forget that melee players think an archer is always bad at melee. If you get good enough, you may take the advantage on them if you can deal some damage.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Grumbs on September 10, 2014, 12:14:03 pm
First off this is a team game, so play as such. Read this or find other team fight/ battle guides on here: http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/let's-talk-about-the-basics-of-teamwork/

Besides that everyone needs to learn a bit about 1v1ing regardless of their team fighting ability.

Go on duel server (EU3) and duel people until you start winning some. Fight people that are slightly better than you if you can but not so good that you can't do anything. Melee is all about defense when you're starting out. Blocking seems really hard when you're new, but its the first and easiest thing to learn. Without it you have no chance at all. Just remember to hold the block until you hear the clash. Get so you can block 99% of attacks and then you can start doing what everyone else is doing - trying to use tricks to beat people's blocks. You have to be tricky because people either have a shield and autoblock, or they have 99.9% block with manual blocking

First off you have to learn about attack windows. When someone makes an attack the other person has to block. When he blocks the first guy gets a little stun that prevents him from attacking again for a moment. During that time the second guy has his attack window. Thats when you get your turn to attack.

Tricks boil down to things like footwork - using movement to increase your attack windows and reduce theirs. If you were both standing still one guy might hit the other faster, but if you move away from the other guys swing and move so yours hits earlier you might get a hit in. You can use foot work to dodge attacks and get a hit in because theres more than just the block stun attack window. When someone thinks their attack might land they won't block, if you judge the distance better you can dodge then get a hit in

Turning into attacks + footwork. During your attack phase you can hit faster than the other player might expect. When you swing your weapon don't wait for it to hit by itself, swing the mouse to the direction you're attacking so it hits early and move your character in the same direction. Its very situational though..the movement side of it depends on more than that. Note that there are sweetspots too, so just after you release the swing you will probably glance, it takes a moment to get into the "sweetspot". Same at the end of the swing, you do less damage

Holds. People get a sense of rhythm in the fight - you attack, they block, they attack you block. If you hold your attack for a moment they can mess up their rhythm and you attack later than they expect.

Weapon stun. This is what gives you an attack window. You can increase the stun affect by using heavier weapons than the other guy and holding for a moment before you release. This is called a chamber (note, not the same as chamber blocking which I won't go into). You can't chamber forever though, the damage goes up a bit after the first second or so then goes down again.

Feints. Two types of feints - either release the first attack and switch mid swing to another direction or hold your attack one way then without releasing left mouse button hit right mouse while moving the mouse another direction. The second one seems to have the least risk involved and still tricks people sometimes. Mix feints up with holds for maximum effect. You don't have to switch attack direction..you  just want to trick them into messing up their block or rhythm.

Go ham. Basically you try to bully the other player by spamming. You take risks and try to take advantage of the other players hesitation and lack of experience, which is why it works best against newer players. There is skill in spamming though, just a good player will counter it most of the time unless the spammer is very good at it with a build to match the playstyle.

Kicks/nudges. I never learned to kick in this game. Its quite risky and will get you killed a lot until you learn when you can kick relatively safely. Some people are really good at mixing in kicks and they get lots of kills with it. Nudge is a bit different - there is less risk and its more of a teamfight skill. Use it as a polearmer to push someone away to get distance or use the others to let your team get a free hit in.

Theres more advanced stuff like spinning and switching attack animation while turned away. I'm not going to bother learning that but some are quite good at it

Ideally in battle though the best way to beat people's blocks is to play with your team and gank people. Manual blockers can't side block and up/down block at the same time, and a shield will break eventually. Battle is all about having a good high level build (30+) teamwork and ganking (mostly just zerging as a group..camping a good spot or just pushing through the other team and outnumbering them). Being a good solo player comes at the end of the round really, thats the only time you should be 1v1ing if you can help it until you are good enough.

Alternatively skip all that stuff and just take a ranged weapon and left click on things from a safe distance. I guarantee you will get bored and miss out on why people play cRPG though, and you won't stick with the game when there are far better FPS game alternatives out there
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Phew on September 10, 2014, 05:34:55 pm
#1- Don't play Battle, play siege or duel. Battle might allow 15 seconds of actual fair combat every 10 minutes. The rest of the time is spent dead, zerging, or being zerged

#2- Find out what the most exploitable mechanic of your class is, and 'sploit the hell out of it. On my shielder I exploit dragging 1h stabs around combined with shield neutral nudges. With 2h you get lolstab and various ways to do annoying sideswings in facehug range (i.e. bend down to put your torso inside your opponents' body). Pole stabs have all sorts of potential exploits, like wiggling to make your holds seem like thrusts, combined with the jerky right swing and overhead animations that make fast 4d poles much harder to block than other weapons. And every class can exploit s-keying, potentially combined with kicks.

#3- Just learn to block, although you can go from awful to adequate without being a good blocker, just stay with your team and pick favorable fights. On my 2h alt, I try to avoid blocking; I just s-key and lolstab with a greatsword, which will get you surprisingly far in cRPG if you know how to pick your engagements.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 10, 2014, 05:57:20 pm
Don't worry. You'll get better eventually as you play. I myself sucked big time in melee when I first started crpg (I used to play mostly cavalry and rarely bow and xbow on native). I can't say I am great or one of the elites now, but crpg taught me to get out there and manage it somehow.

There are lots of tips to take into account, but two stand out the most in my humble opinion:

1- Work on manual blocking. It is practically the most essential skill you need.
2- Add a little variety to your attacks (add feints, held attacks, irregular swing patterns from different directions etc.).
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 10, 2014, 06:37:10 pm

 editing items, ive been a cheapskate/light gear user for 3 to 4 years, you'll learn by yourself

Have some tips:
1 Don't expect a too steep learning curve from yourself! We were all in your shoes once, for most people here, the first time we played cRPG is 3-4 years ago. We picked up our skills step for step learning by doing for this long time, and unless you have very good teachers or play for many hours a day you can play per weekend or just 1 hour in the evening, doesnt really matter, as long as you just play, there is no way you will be able to beat everyone during your first 10 gens I learned to properly block at gen 5, 10 gens is a bit too much, gen 13 now on main.

2 Don't underestimate the importance of good equipment! get a +3 weapon first, like Phew said, grab an item that you can exploit, and you like+3 gloves are the best example; their stats increase by 50%-500% depending on which ones you loom. With +3 gloves and body armor, unless you loom very light stuff, you get +10 body armor without any additional upkeep you got to pay. With some IF and decent STR and depending on the enemy weapon, I would say this is 2 additional hits you can survive.

3 Don't play hybrids unless you learned how to use them. Shielder/archer is an especially terrible combination. Both classes have one extra skill they need to take care of (shield skill and PD), so you effectively lose at least 3 levels compared to all-in-builds.

4 Don't forget to skill athletics. Many new players make this mistake and can't really learn decent footwork because their characters are terribly slow. As general tendencies: The shorter your weapon is, the more athletics you should skill. Secondly, when you attack an enemy, you should move towards him, and when you block an enemy swing, you should move away from him. This is how you exploit speed boni.

5 Get a budget set which costs around 700 gold or less max upkeep. This way, you will have a steady income allowing you to buy loompoints. Pick weapons and armors which are cheap but still usable. Mail shirt with fur is a good medium armor fulfilling this role. Maul and Battle Axe are good twohanders for this. Short Sword and Spiked Mace are your onehanded budget friends. Voulge is the way to go for polearm players. Archers can use Short Bow or Nomad Bow and default arrows on DTV. Crossbow players can abstain from Steel Bolts and replace them with default Bolts. Leather Covered Round Shield is a good budget shield, especially on +3. Light Strange Gloves, Mail Mittens and Mail Gloves are the best budget gloves. Rouncy is the budget horse. Throwing Daggers are the budget throwing weapon darts, war darts and franciscas are the way to go with cheap throwing. If you go 18/18 shielder, you can invest a point or 4 in power throw, for extra fun in battle/ able to hit/stun enemies from afar. 100 wpf in throwing is more than enough as hybrid 1hshielder/thrower..

Don't loom items the hard way, but keep your loompoints until you have 2 and a bit of gold, and buy a +3 item with them. The wait can be painful, but you will have more in the end.

Get some training on EU3 or NA3, depending on where you live. The skill level on duel is the highest among all servers, and since no backstabbing and the like are present, duel servers are perfect to get better.

Practice chambering in Native SP campaign entering the arena and fighting against bots on the easiest difficulty settings.

Read guides for your class in the Guides Section in Beginner's Help and Guides here in the forum.

Be aware that combat is pretty much turn based. After you attacked, you should block the next hit of the enemy, unless you have a really good weapon, crazy footwork, a noob or an outnumbered enemy. Feints can prolong your turns, chambers can add surprise turns into the combat, nudges and kicks can break the turn pattern to distract the enemy. The latter also provide a free hit.

Whatever you do, fun is the variable you should focus on maximizing. The rest (experience, gold, skill, nice people you meet) increases steadily over time, but fun is a situational decision you have to make every second you playPlay for fun, just take a break/test other builds when youre tired of grinding that one character. use a Skip The Fun character to test lvl 30 builds. (test the 1h shield/throwing character :) ).


good luck on getting better in blocking, put up stones in marketplace for 25k, and send me a link to the offer, ill accept them, so you can buy some gear for yourself/keep up with upkeep

18/18 shielder/thrower build
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: StonedSteel on September 10, 2014, 07:35:36 pm
Lol your prob not bad...just low gen

trust me, even if you have been playing warband for years....crpg is NOT warband, its going to take you a while to get used to how things in crpg work.

the best advice i can give u is to remember this: crpg is NOT skill based, its mechanic based. Go 21-18 with a bar mace and you'll get the swings and timing down. and when you lose badly...dont view it as you losing badly, for the most part people are going to be much higher lvl with much better gear....basically you dont stand a chance haha, not till all your gear is loomed and your at a decent lvl too....which will take alot of time.

CRPG is not about being good or bad, its all about time...
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Macropus on September 10, 2014, 07:44:10 pm
Quote from: StonedSteel on September 10, 2014, 07:35:36 pm
the best advice i can give u is to remember this: crpg is NOT skill based, its mechanic based. Go 21-18 with a bar mace and you'll get the swings and timing down.
Lol, may be it's not skill-based for you, but for most people around it seems to be skill-based.  :P

Quote from: StonedSteel on September 10, 2014, 07:35:36 pm
...basically you dont stand a chance haha, not till all your gear is loomed and your at a decent lvl too....which will take alot of time.
This, ladies and gentlemen, is bullshit.
Not saying heirlooms don't provide a significant advantage - they in fact do, but it still doesn't make it much harder to beat people if you are good enough.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Torben on September 10, 2014, 08:40:32 pm
you can do fine without skill in this mod.  but greatness is only achieved by the brilliant
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 09:07:01 pm
Quote from: Macropus on September 10, 2014, 11:16:39 am
Add me on steam - "Macropus", and contact me whenever you see me online, we could go to duel server and practice for a while to see what's wrong.

Appreciate the help. I sent you a friend request... I think. There were multiple accounts with the name Marcopus, and even more than one that had a kangaroo as a profile picture. I sent a request to the one with the kangaroo that's identical to the one in your profile.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 09:09:36 pm
Quote from: Umbra on September 10, 2014, 11:02:28 am
You should play a generation as a shielder before jumping into 2h. That should teach you when you can attack and when you cant, it should enable you to last longer in fights ( you wont learn much if you get roflstomped as 2h), and you should get some sense of block timing without worrying about direction.

That's a good idea. I was sort of thinking of doing that anyway after a fashion next time around - I was going to go Crossbow, so I can use what would normally be reserved for PD on Shield and PS and put a decent number of points into 1H. I've seen what look to be some pretty good hybrid templates, and I was going to try one of them out. Maybe I should go straight shielder, though.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 09:12:54 pm
Quote from: Panuru on September 10, 2014, 11:52:24 am
Yay noobies!

-snip-

Appreciate the advice. Alas, I'm fresh out of LP, so you'll have to go without. ;-)
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 09:21:16 pm
Rather than continuing to spam posts, I'm just gonna say thank you all for the help so far. I appreciate the response. For those of you offering to help me out, I'll PM you about it.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 10, 2014, 09:22:44 pm
have you joined a clan allready? most of them have +3 items you can borrow in their armoury, plus it makes the game more fun :)
if you are going xbow, I suggest 15/24 xbow with ''crossbow'' doesnt have too much upkeep and still hits good, 150 wpf is enough for it (so ive heard)

put up the stones yet?

take care

-Hail
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Phew on September 10, 2014, 09:29:48 pm
Yeah, join a clan so you can use their armory to run around in +3 gear all the time. Peasants United is the clan that has been set up specifically to help newbies (and I believe they have a nice armory), so that's my suggestion.

Unless you really enjoy playing it, I would stay away from ranged classes. Melee combat is cRPG's best-implemented aspect, so generally it's the most rewarding to play. I've done an xbow generation, and it was the most boring godawful experience (you spend most of your time staring at the floor while you reload). Hybrid throwing used to be fun, but throwing is super weak nowadays.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Umbra on September 10, 2014, 10:34:09 pm
There is a public clan called peasants united. You can join by applying on c-rpg.net clans page, and use their armory of loomed items
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Apsod on September 11, 2014, 12:11:25 am
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on September 10, 2014, 10:58:51 pm
Or be a mighty lone-wolf and owe allegiance to no man.

MagisterMundi, if you have the will of a warrior, make an unyielding Str build and train under some of the heroes who have offered you training here, you will be invincible. Play with a pure Str to learn footwork, then when you later add athletics you will be a god.
Going pure str to learn footwork is like going a shielder to learn manual blocking.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 11, 2014, 07:16:44 am
last time i was in peasants united with an alt, i saw no looms in the armoury :|
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Andswaru on September 11, 2014, 09:19:54 am
da is looms i promise you brother.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Also 1 blue and 1 green one.

All praise knitler the evil one.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 11, 2014, 09:26:25 am
Quote from: Andswaru on September 11, 2014, 09:19:54 am
da is looms i promise you brother.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Also 1 blue and 1 green one.

All praise knitler the evil one.

still like 3 available, not much :)
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Lord Voren on September 11, 2014, 06:06:45 pm
     My advice, and i'm sure the advice you're seeing repeatedly, is duel.I'll say this to the other new guys reading these pro tips from vets. Just Duel. Duel, duel, duel, duel till your eyes bleed. And duel more, grab the best fighters you see and ram your head into them. When you come to this game from another game or even another mod, You have tendencies and muscle memories from those. You have to have those beat out of you, you're going to get mad, you're going to get demoralized, but the more you do it, the more you forget about other games and you focus on THIS game and THESE techniques. Eventually, you'll start seeing counters (if you're looking for them) Someone holds for too long, bad footwork, feints, and you capitalize on those flaws without even realizing you're doing it. You fight the best and suddenly you see the faults in the second best. Its not about the learning curve, its about how receptive you are and your intelligence and drive to be better at this game. The so called "Try hards" are people who dont have it as easy as others. Ive been playing this game for years and I have to duel everyday to get better and im not even in the top 50 players. The more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it. So keep at it bud, you'll get there.

P.S. Dont crutch on looms and armor. Learn the mechanics and game, and use those as tools to be better. Dont train without weights. :P
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Phew on September 11, 2014, 07:20:54 pm
Quote from: Lord Voren on September 11, 2014, 06:06:45 pm
     My advice, and i'm sure the advice you're seeing repeatedly, is duel

Duel server is much more effective for improving if you have a friend to coach you. That server is populated with the tryhardiest tryhards in all of cRPG, and many of them would roflfeintspinlolstabkick a newbie to death without ever helping them get better. Plenty of players that top scoreboard on Battle and Siege get their face stomped on duel, so it's not a good place to build one's confidence without someone actually trying to help you.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Apsod on September 12, 2014, 03:03:34 am
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on September 11, 2014, 12:19:01 am
Why? I'd say it's more like learning timings and animations without 200 WPF. As 200 wpf would give you an unrealistic idea of true timings and combat and make you lazy. Playing with high athletics gives you too much margin for error, your footwork wont improve, you'll only get decent at playing with high athletics as a crutch.

Rather than learning with your crutch, learn without it, then when you use your crutch you're a better player.

The less athletics you have the more important footwork is, and the faster you'll learn to use it effectively.
If you are playing with high athletics and low strength there is little room for error. You will be much more dependent on your movement to save you and if you can't utilize that extra movement speed then you will fail horribly. However with a pure strength build there is much room for error and getting hit a bit here and there wont matter much which makes your playstyle more lazy and it will take much longer for you to learn proper footwork.

Another thing about very strength orientated builds are that they are very limited in what they can do when it comes to footwork. Many of the techniques that you can do with high athletics are simply not possible to do with low athletics and therefore you will get no practice doing them. Like I said, going pure strength to learn footwork is like going a shielder to learn manual blocking.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Veniathan on September 12, 2014, 07:51:08 am
Man I really blew at this game when I started. Infact I didn't even play vanilla that much, maybe 2 hours in total. So I know how you feel.

The more you play the better you get. Start as a shielder for a gen or two and get used to the basics of blocking, timing. Then go on to 2h if you want. I don't, I'll stay 1h. I think it's most fun with a shield to annoy people and be a super fast fucker with a pickaxe.

You'll get better it's a matter of fact, just be patient
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Molly on September 12, 2014, 08:46:04 am
Quote from: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 10:56:52 am
Guys, I'm terrible at PvP melee combat. Absolutely awful. I'm Gen 2, about to be Gen 3, and I'm still just so bad at melee that it's comical. I'm a decent shot, and in DTV melee I can hold my own, but against other players it's just pitiful. Like, I can take my level 30 2H build against an archer with some crappy sword and no PS and consistently lose. I'm not sure why I'm so awful - I'm pretty decent at similar games, like War of the Vikings and War of the Roses. I'm even okay at vanilla, though not great. But for some reason, I just don't seem to get PvP melee in cRPG.

I'm probably going back to ranged weaponry of some sort next gen, but I really do want to get better at melee so I can participate in that half of the game. Anyone have any suggestions for someone who's absolutely horrible?
I am bad at melee too. At least way worse than 90% of the populace.
I have to be honest tho: I never really tried much to become good or even just better. But I still enjoy my crpg-time and there are a few simple reasons to it.

First you should try to connect to all the other players on a friendly basis. This thread is already a very good start. Besides our over all pretty harsh tone, we're actually a pretty friendly community. The community is probably the part of the game that keeps most people still around after all these years.
Then you wanna look for a niche you enjoy playing, no matter how good you're at it. That's why I feel at home with the Ninjas. It's pretty much the completely wrong playstyle for my skill-level but I just enjoy it too much to really care about my deaths.

I'll tell you a secret: I am so bad, I NEVER had EVER a positive kill/death ration on any of my characters. Never! :D Hardly a surprise for anyone who knows me :P

What I am actually trying to say is: Don't allow kills and being killed to get into the way of you having fun. There is nothing wrong with wishing and trying to become better but don't try too hard. Just try to have a good time while playing with everyone around you. :wink:
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Grumbs on September 12, 2014, 09:40:35 pm
I think if you're new taking anything less than 15 will be a bad idea. I'd go at least 18/18. 21/18 or 18/21 if you don't use a shield
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Screaming Idiot on September 13, 2014, 12:36:41 am
call me if you need some tutoring baby

steam ID is Screaming Idiot (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028277262/)

pls call

i so lonely
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on September 13, 2014, 01:19:55 am
Lots of good advice so far. Practice on the duel server will increase your skill faster than anything else. Don't just join and fight whoever shows up though. Most of the regulars who hang out on the duel server are top-tier players and you will get stomped. Asking on the battle or siege server for someone to help you won't get much response but sometimes a nice guy will help you out.

Get teamspeak installed if you don't have it already. Pretty much every crpg clan uses that for voice communications. I don't know whether you are NA or EU, but if you are NA (or don't mind NA ping) then try weshould.servebeer.com teamspeak server. It hosts a ton of different clans, so there will be several channels with people hanging out at any given time. Just ask if anyone wants to train you on the duel server. Can't speak for EU servers, but I'm sure someone else in this thread can suggest some.

The biggest advantage of being in teamspeak is that your tutor can talk to you. It's a pain to write everything you are trying to teach with the in-game chat. :P

I have been playing for a long time, but when I just started I played range only. Before I was any good at melee attacks, I learned to block proficiently. Just bring a light cheap weapon along and fight defensively when you are forced into melee. When you die, spectate the best players and watch their technique. Find the playstyle and build that is the most fun to you. Then get good at it. Don't pick a class or build because "it is strong." Pick it because you want to play it.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: StonedSteel on September 13, 2014, 01:42:26 am
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on September 10, 2014, 08:06:11 pm
'Skill' = Success in crpg

High level + gear also = Success in crpg

So Success in crpg does not necessarily = Skill, as high level and gear can be a substitute for skill.
:rolleyes:

LOL

I say the exact same thing and get hated for it.

but sure...if heskey says it...lol, i love you heskey, you are like, thee one and only actual honest non delusional crpg player. For the love of the people King Heskey, keep up the good work, your honesty and sanity are highly refreshing.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Falka on September 13, 2014, 09:43:24 am
Quote from: Apsod on September 12, 2014, 03:03:34 am
However with a pure strength build there is much room for error and getting hit a bit here and there wont matter much which makes your playstyle more lazy and it will take much longer for you to learn proper footwork.

That's exactly why str builds are better for newbies. If the very first mistake gets you killed you cause of low hp pool, then this is shitty build for new players. Dead people will learn nothing.

Also, with agi build and long weapon people are more inclined to rely exclusively on their footwark, instead of learning how to block properly.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Zerkain on September 13, 2014, 12:57:49 pm
You are terrible because you don't use Autoblock.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on September 15, 2014, 03:35:09 am
Quote from: Phew on September 10, 2014, 05:34:55 pm
#1- Don't play Battle, play siege or duel. Battle might allow 15 seconds of actual fair combat every 10 minutes. The rest of the time is spent dead, zerging, or being zerged

#2- Find out what the most exploitable mechanic of your class is, and 'sploit the hell out of it. On my shielder I exploit dragging 1h stabs around combined with shield neutral nudges. With 2h you get lolstab and various ways to do annoying sideswings in facehug range (i.e. bend down to put your torso inside your opponents' body). Pole stabs have all sorts of potential exploits, like wiggling to make your holds seem like thrusts, combined with the jerky right swing and overhead animations that make fast 4d poles much harder to block than other weapons. And every class can exploit s-keying, potentially combined with kicks.

Worst advise here, imo.

#1. Really find out for yourself what you like the most. Some prefer siege, some battle for various reasons and the above description is just one-sided biased from obviously a siege-fan.

#2. A bit what Molly said, just find out how to have fun. But that doesn't mean you can't get any better. There are tons of great players out there with their own style and good tricks that don't use the "most exploitable mechanic" of their class just to win.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on September 15, 2014, 04:45:43 am
Outside of heirlooms, good ping, good fps, good reaction time, footwork/positioning, and teamwork, a lot of "skills"/ways to improve performance are hard to distinguish from blatant exploits if the standard for an exploit is that it wouldn't make any sense in real life. Pretty much all of the top performing players use them.

These things include:

Kicks being able to land while the character is retracting their leg.
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey dragging stabs into people for massive damage even though it looks like there's no momentum (2h, 1h), or even though it doesn't make sense for a stab to land since you're so close (polearm)
Feints moving impossibly jerky/fast (mostly a polearm thing since their animations are less "smooth")
Hiltslashes

I'd say pick a weapon type that you like, then try to find a few people who do really well using the same weapon type with similar lengths/speed and just spectate them for a while.

Alternatively, try dueling but make sure you're both using STF builds and unloomed weapons/armor.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Dooz on September 15, 2014, 04:55:09 am
If you've spent more time reading all this than playing the game, you're doing it wrong. You'll just end up overwhelmed with information that's years in the making, instead of just playing and figuring out what you like and don't like for yourself, and getting better at whatever those things are because you're spending time doing them. Everything else is mostly just other peoples' opinions, as opposed to fostering your own through experience. But yeah there's some good info among all the posts here too, just adding more noise to the mix cause I'm a bad boy.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Umbra on September 15, 2014, 09:11:29 am
We need more noobs to register here. One genuine new player comes and immediately gets swarmed by everyone with info.  :lol:
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Digglez on September 15, 2014, 05:35:36 pm
A shame there is no vassal system, so mentors would get some sort of credit!

If you want to learn the art of medium infantry shielding, pm me. I've taught more than a few.  Teamspeak use is mandatory
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Falka on September 16, 2014, 01:01:20 am
Quote from: Umbra on September 15, 2014, 09:11:29 am
We need more noobs to register here. One genuine new player comes and immediately gets swarmed by everyone with info.  :lol:

because

Quote from: Molly on September 12, 2014, 08:46:04 am
Besides our over all pretty harsh tone, we're actually a pretty friendly community.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: StonedSteel on September 17, 2014, 08:23:52 pm
Quote from: Huscarlton_Banks on September 15, 2014, 04:45:43 am
Outside of heirlooms, good ping, good fps, good reaction time, footwork/positioning, and teamwork, a lot of "skills"/ways to improve performance are hard to distinguish from blatant exploits if the standard for an exploit is that it wouldn't make any sense in real life. Pretty much all of the top performing players use them.

These things include:

Kicks being able to land while the character is retracting their leg.
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey dragging stabs into people for massive damage even though it looks like there's no momentum (2h, 1h), or even though it doesn't make sense for a stab to land since you're so close (polearm)
Feints moving impossibly jerky/fast (mostly a polearm thing since their animations are less "smooth")
Hiltslashes

I'd say pick a weapon type that you like, then try to find a few people who do really well using the same weapon type with similar lengths/speed and just spectate them for a while.

Alternatively, try dueling but make sure you're both using STF builds and unloomed weapons/armor.

OMG!!! another actually honest non delusional crpg player!??! ITS A MIRAC---

ohh wait a sec, i know banks, hes from native. sigh...i should really just go back there, where people are sane. if i read even one more dishonest delusional completely BS macropus\tydeus post and i swear ill snap.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Dooz on September 17, 2014, 08:25:17 pm
Sounds like you might have already snapped.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Teeth on September 17, 2014, 08:46:14 pm
Now I am not sure what exactly is the problem, but if you aren't a good blocker you should probably address that first. I highly recommend following the steps below. As with anything that relies on building muscle memory, practicing very focused and very slow is key to getting it right and will in the end teach you blocking much faster than just jumping into full speed multiplayer combat. Many players develop very bad habits to supplant blocking skills and never get good. Spend some time with this and you will be able to have a much better time ingame.

If you want to learn blocking properly and quickly I recommend starting up Native and clicking the tutorial. There are bots in there of various ranks, they have varying wpf levels. Start with the novice one, and put combat speed to slowest in the options. Focus on blocking only until you can block atleast 9 out of 10. Then go to the next bot who is called regularI think, do the same again. Work your way through the bots from low to high and if you are confident on blocking them all, you turn the game speed up one notch. Start while standing still, if you get somewhat comfortable doing it stationary, start moving around while blocking as you need to be able to do both at the same time.

If you can block the highest rank bot confidently on normal game speed, then you should have servicable blocking good enough for multiplayer cRPG. Although you also might want to practice blocking and then attacking back. You can also try blocking them on the faster and even fastest settings to get really comfortable with blocking, but don't forget that blocking players with wiggles, feints and holds is gonna take practice even if you can block normal attacks at the speed of light. Try to block with as small mouse movements as possible and hold down your blocks, don't just click them. With this procedure you can most likely develop the required muscle memory for blocking in like 1-5 hours. Took me a 1000 hours of just playing before I could properly block back in the day.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: agweber on September 17, 2014, 09:22:50 pm
Quote from: Teeth on September 17, 2014, 08:46:14 pm
Now I am not sure what exactly is the problem, but if you aren't a good blocker you should probably address that first. I highly recommend following the steps below. As with anything that relies on building muscle memory, practicing very focused and very slow is key to getting it right and will in the end teach you blocking much faster than just jumping into full speed multiplayer combat. Many players develop very bad habits to supplant blocking skills and never get good. Spend some time with this and you will be able to have a much better time ingame.

If you want to learn blocking properly and quickly I recommend starting up Native and clicking the tutorial. There are bots in there of various ranks, they have varying wpf levels. Start with the novice one, and put combat speed to slowest in the options. Focus on blocking only until you can block atleast 9 out of 10. Then go to the next bot who is called regularI think, do the same again. Work your way through the bots from low to high and if you are confident on blocking them all, you turn the game speed up one notch. Start while standing still, if you get somewhat comfortable doing it stationary, start moving around while blocking as you need to be able to do both at the same time.

If you can block the highest rank bot confidently on normal game speed, then you should have servicable blocking good enough for multiplayer cRPG. Although you also might want to practice blocking and then attacking back. You can also try blocking them on the faster and even fastest settings to get really comfortable with blocking, but don't forget that blocking players with wiggles, feints and holds is gonna take practice even if you can block normal attacks at the speed of light. Try to block with as small mouse movements as possible and hold down your blocks, don't just click them. With this procedure you can most likely develop the required muscle memory for blocking in like 1-5 hours. Took me a 1000 hours of just playing before I could properly block back in the day.
I feel like I've read this from you several times, and I agree that it would be a fairly good and quick method to getting used to manual blocking.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 17, 2014, 09:44:12 pm
Quote from: Huscarlton_Banks on September 15, 2014, 04:45:43 am
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey dragging stabs into people for massive damage even though it looks like there's no momentum (2h, 1h), or even though it doesn't make sense for a stab to land since you're so close (polearm)

This will be off-topic, but when is this fine example of brokenness going to be fixed? Also, advising someone who is aspiring to get better to become yet another stab-dragger, lolstabber or airstabber absolutely isn't doing anybody good. Shame on you Huscarlton buddy.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Teeth on September 17, 2014, 11:23:34 pm
Quote from: agweber on September 17, 2014, 09:22:50 pm
I feel like I've read this from you several times, and I agree that it would be a fairly good and quick method to getting used to manual blocking.
That might be because I mostly copy pasta it from my previous posts for these type of threads. Any soul that I can put on the path of careful and calculated play instead of getting a high damage weapon and randomly spamming like a twat is a win.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: AwesomeHail on September 18, 2014, 07:07:51 am
I trained on native training aswell,

isnt the fighting speed set on medium here?
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Teeth on September 18, 2014, 10:05:16 am
I am talking about the singleplayer tutorial, which allows you to adjust the game speed from slowest to fastest.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: woody on September 18, 2014, 11:56:42 am
I had exactly the same issue.

A few suggestions from an average player who was crap, just what I found. Many will say its bullshit but just based on my experience of this mod:

1. Go to nditions duel server and practice blocking versus the trainers until its as instinctive as possible.
2. I realised switching from 1h no shield to pole to 2h if you have a reasonable amount of agi dont be afraid to spam. If people complain its up to them to block, their lack of blocking is not your issue. Of course trying to spam the good guys just gets you dead but funnily enough the guys who are easiest to spam and complain the most are generally spammers themselves, ie they cant block then counter consistently.
3. If your weapon is longer than your opponents try backing away and left/right swing. As long as they dont over athletics you too much its quite effective if they chase you - ie S key spam. Same as you do to bots on DTV. Can be decent defensive tactic versus a good 1h who have heavy shield and may not have huge ath.
4. Always have 18 plus AGI with max ATH and WM. I do OK at the moment with an alt Weebo with a low AGI but you have to block alot. Like 2 to 1 at least blocks to attacks.
5. Dont hybrid. Many players are lvl 33 plus dedicated builds how the hell with the equivalent of a lvl 24 or so 2h do you expect to compete with a fully loomed dedicated lvl 33 2h whos logged 5000 hours (im not joking these guys exist). Wont happen. Some people will say being high level makes little difference, to someone like chase maybe not but to most of us it does.
6. Kicking is hard to master. Chambering is hard to master especially versus quick varied attacks or feints. Footwork, held attacks and feinting are comparatively easy to add. Dont underestimate held attacks they really add to your game, if the guy chambers well done him, most will fuck it up. Of course you need to be confident in your release timing or ability to switch to a block if necessary.
7. Vary what you do. I got killed with my slow guy by a 2h spam feinter, next two times I fought him simply stepped in and killed him while he feinted like a madman. Of course he raged about spam, luck and I only kept killing him cos I am so crap but thats his problem if hes too stupid to realise what he was doing. Of course if I didnt mix up my tactics he could counter. Dont be too predictable. Some guys always start a fight with a left swing for example.
8. Weapon choice. Either use a pierce or knockdown weapon or one of the uber weapons . Versus loomed armour blunt/pierce damage makes a difference to being able to hurt the guy, plus with a knockdown 1 hit and if he fucks up his AA/DD you get a good chance of an in effect 1 hit kill. The uber weapons. Some weapons are simply easier to play. 2h longsword, pole long axe are in my opinion easy due to extreme speed, 4 different attacks and goodish damage. Combine with 21 plus agi and you will find blocking and getting attacks through easier.
9. Sounds cowardly but be a coward. Doh! Recognise the top players. Avoid them for now. Also if clan ganks are on avoid them, unless you have clanmates with you if you run into a group of mercs/greys/drz with 6 teammates you will suddenly find you are on your own, no chance of doing anything. Sad but true.
10. Never assume teammates will help you. If they do help you consider it a bonus. If someone tries to help and hits you and you report he will likely not help you again. Acknowledge/thank when guys help, a simple held up block after fight can do wonders for getting guys to help you again. If someone does help you keep an eye out and try to return the favour. I dont mean wading into a 1 or 2 teammates versus an enemy, I mean when he is outnumbered or trying to run down an archer or defend versus a cav. Help when its hard, not when its easy.
11. Go 1h no shield for a gen or two. Does wonders for your blocking, then you will find 2h relatively easy afterwards. Can be frustrating but effective in a confined space. Plus its fast and fun.

 
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Phew on September 18, 2014, 03:10:43 pm
Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on September 17, 2014, 09:44:12 pm
This will be off-topic, but when is this fine example of brokenness going to be fixed? Also, advising someone who is aspiring to get better to become yet another stab-dragger, lolstabber or airstabber absolutely isn't doing anybody good. Shame on you Huscarlton buddy.

Don't expect stab wonkiness to ever be fixed; it's just the way Warband is coded. You can complain about it or embrace it; no decent player is going to let you kill them just facing them and swinging normally during your turn. Even the best players usually fall victim to at least one crazy stab-drag per fight; it's one of the more potent tools in the cRPG melee arsenal (for all 3 weapon types). Yes it looks stupid, but we have people running around with fluorescent sperm banners, so immersion is out the window regardless.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 18, 2014, 05:26:43 pm
The turn rate nerf actually did fix it effectively. Yet the amount of resulting QQ was incalculably immense and the nerf had to be retrieved. After all, it is a basic human right to be able to drag an already-over-and-done attack into an enemy and get handsomely rewarded for it with huge damage output, amirite?
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Teeth on September 18, 2014, 05:52:20 pm
Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on September 18, 2014, 05:26:43 pm
The turn rate nerf actually did fix it effectively. Yet the amount of resulting QQ was incalculably immense and the nerf had to be retrieved. After all, it is a basic human right to be able to drag an already-over-and-done attack into an enemy and get handsomely rewarded for it with huge damage output, amirite?
What, turn rate nerf was active in its full original capacity for like 2 years. In fact, turn rate nerf made me quit 1h without shield and made me start playing Longspear, point blank stabbing all the time. The only difference with before was that you need to look up and then down, instead of just dragging sideways, which has made it a lot harder because you can't see shit while doing it. There was a lot of QQ because of the turn rate nerf, but mostly by people using short weapons. Turn rate nerf only got tweaked like a year ago, not removed, tweaked. To a level which puts long polearms still so far from the original turn rate values that you still need to stab the up down way. There has not been a single period where you could not stab up close with a Longspear. In fact due to tightening of sweetspots on polearm stab, point blank stabbing has never been more difficult than it is now. The damage output is relatively crap by the way as well, get better head armour.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on September 18, 2014, 07:17:22 pm
Tbh, I am disturbed more by 2h and 1h swords when it comes to stab dragging, not by polearms. And I remember how outraged lolstabbers were when they were rendered incapable of manipulating the direction of a stab after releasing it. I realize that airstabbing (aka bendy stabbing) and pointblank pole stabs cannot be fully fixed, but further limited turn rate can surely deal with lolstabs, which arrive at their targets by getting dragged %90 percent of the time. And I am not even after immersion as Phew suggests. All I want to get are less frustration and players with dignity (cos most people obviously cannot display that as long as they have some bullshitty glitched mechanism to exploit in their hands).
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Phew on September 18, 2014, 07:29:08 pm
Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on September 18, 2014, 07:17:22 pm
All I want to get are less frustration and players with dignity (cos most people obviously cannot display that as long as they have some bullshitty glitched mechanism to exploit in their hands).

OK, but understand that if you remove all these glitchy exploits (like stab dragging/wiggling, kicks landing during leg retract, dragging overheads around on the ground, hiltslash, etc), most good players will become unkillable in 1v1. Watch any pair of top-10 duelists; they only hit each other when one of them takes advantage of some combination of these exploitable mechanics. If they just had to face each other taking turns swinging (with the occasional feint or hold), the fight would only end when someone had to go take a piss.

Even if these exploits were fixable (which they aren't without breaking gameplay in other ways), they'd had to turn up the combat speed to at least "Fast" or no one would ever kill an aware opponent.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Thomek on September 18, 2014, 09:37:16 pm
All the focus here is on blocking and melee fighting skills, and rightly so. Those skills must be down.

Also however, what is interesting to me is always the development of the battlefield, reading the battle so to speak. It's a kind of game where everyone is trying to trick everyone, but overall it's about choosing your battles. Don't put yourself in fucked up situations, but be there at the right moment when your team has advantage. :)
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Kaido on October 02, 2014, 12:31:45 am
Learn block->Game won
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 02, 2014, 04:33:16 am
What is your build?

That will make the biggest difference. If you are catching up to archers it sounds to me like you've got too much agi and not enough armour to learn with.

Try

21/18 or 24/15 and jack all your points into IF and PS then ATH and Weapons master. You'll land on 139 wpf with 24/15 build which is plenty and in light and mid armour I run plenty fast enough.

But for the love everything don't retire until you hit 32. That extra time at 31 is going to be really invaluable to you. It's basically 72 hours of play time at a proper level.

Either go with pole arm and;

Long War Axe
weapon length: 123
weight: 3.2
difficulty: 14
speed rating: 95
weapon length: 123
thrust damage: 18 blunt
swing damage: 42 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield

Or 2h and;

Heavy Bastard Sword
weapon length: 105
weight: 2
difficulty: 10
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 105
thrust damage: 23 pierce
swing damage: 36 cut
slots: 2
Secondary Mode

or

Two Handed War Axe
weapon length: 92
weight: 2.5
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 96
weapon length: 92
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 41 cut
slots: 2
Bonus against Shield

Wear at least 55 points of body armour, more is better.

Spend time in the duel server and if anyone is willing to help you get better take them up on the offer, you'll have a good time. This game can be really great when you get decent.

Thomek is also right, on the field in the battle server it's about picking your moment and position. I play with 250-300 ping but still sit in the top third of the score board most of the time because I know when to toss myself into the fight like a grenade, especially when I put on my full plate and go all spin to win on the mother fucker.

----

On some level I agree with the notion of using a shield to learn but I actually found that it held me back and once I ditched it and just went pure 1h I got way better way faster.

What I did to get better was pick an activity for each round. So I would run in and just block and that was all I would do. Then after a round or two of just blocking I'd do some fienting or kick slashing. Then one day I found about chambering and the heaves opened and I momentarily became a god... or at least I thought I was a god.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Teeth on October 02, 2014, 11:21:21 am
Last active, 30 september, you don't know what he reads.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on October 02, 2014, 11:42:27 am
I saw him several times ingame after this  thread was created. But who knows? He might have quit for good because of all the tryhardiness and broken mechanisms.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: l1cocbdd on October 09, 2014, 10:58:08 pm
Mundy - I have been somewhat dealing with the same problem.  I played dtv all the time in order to get to 30s (and still do), hoping it will make a difference once i got there, but I still get whomped in battle or siege.  I am not horrible at blocking but not great either, which as you know is definitely key to survival, and i can use improvement.  What the majority of ppl here are saying about practice practice practice and duel duel duel is true.. and i can say i am improving very slowly given the free time i have available.  I know some might think this is wrong, but i've practiced using the wooden sword and medium armor, with a friend (both of us new to c-rpg)and within about 45 minutes to an hour he and i were both able to block basic attacks about 95% of the time and block some feinting against each other.  I believe this was the most efficient 45 minutes to an hour of c-rpg gameplay i have experienced.  Correct me if i am wrong but i figured obviously because there is less down time, and more non-stop practice because you live longer and spar longer before being interupted by dying and the routine of finding each other again after spawning.  I was then able to duel against other players who were better than me, and survive about 3x longer than i used to before dying and able to block about 80% of their tricky attacks, feints and footwork.

Anyhow, i've tried offering training duels with the pro players using wooden weapons, but nobody is ever up for it.. they just want to win by killing you in two hits with their warcleavers or long axes, which will not help you improve much.  So if you are looking to get with someone and practice, let me know because i can use it too.   I see you online from time to time in dtv, so next time we cross paths i'll hit you up if you want to practice.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Tonguska on October 10, 2014, 04:35:20 pm
Hey guys I also have a problem with combat. Im playing this game for few days now and i LOVE it so far. My question is: IS there anyone willing to teach me, show me how to fight on 1v1 server? I could join your teamspeak or whatever you have there :)
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Thomek on October 10, 2014, 04:56:55 pm
Hang out on duel server and kindly ask someone to teach you! :)

Or ask in battle, siege if anyone are up.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Screaming Idiot on October 10, 2014, 11:34:17 pm
Quote from: Tonguska on October 10, 2014, 04:35:20 pm
Hey guys I also have a problem with combat. Im playing this game for few days now and i LOVE it so far. My question is: IS there anyone willing to teach me, show me how to fight on 1v1 server? I could join your teamspeak or whatever you have there :)

call me baby

ill teach you the basics

pls

im so lonely
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Tonguska on October 11, 2014, 12:08:09 am
Quote from: Screaming Idiot on October 10, 2014, 11:34:17 pm
call me baby

ill teach you the basics

pls

im so lonely

Did you mean it about helping me with the basics or you just joking around? If you are up for it tell me when and where, thanks for helping out.
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Krex on October 11, 2014, 12:03:09 pm
Are you from EU or NA?
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Bjord on October 11, 2014, 02:30:00 pm
Quote from: MagisterMundi on September 10, 2014, 10:56:52 am
Guys, I'm terrible at PvP melee combat. Absolutely awful. I'm Gen 2, about to be Gen 3, and I'm still just so bad at melee that it's comical. I'm a decent shot, and in DTV melee I can hold my own, but against other players it's just pitiful. Like, I can take my level 30 2H build against an archer with some crappy sword and no PS and consistently lose. I'm not sure why I'm so awful - I'm pretty decent at similar games, like War of the Vikings and War of the Roses. I'm even okay at vanilla, though not great. But for some reason, I just don't seem to get PvP melee in cRPG.

I'm probably going back to ranged weaponry of some sort next gen, but I really do want to get better at melee so I can participate in that half of the game. Anyone have any suggestions for someone who's absolutely horrible?

Hey, man.

You're not horrible, you're just new.

All of us old farts who used to play this game for many hours a day are mostly gone, but the newer generation of pure cRPG geeks have pretty much caught up to us, and in my case surpassed us.

You're just really green, man. You're not horrible. Imagine jumping into a boxing match with Mike Tyson after sparring with your mother for 3 times.

EDIT: Whoops, what a necro post I made, 1 month old rofl. :lol:
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Tonguska on October 11, 2014, 05:36:42 pm
Quote from: Krex on October 11, 2014, 12:03:09 pm
Are you from EU or NA?

EU but im staying very late so i guess besides the ping it does not matter
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Krex on October 11, 2014, 09:11:27 pm
Quote from: Tonguska on October 11, 2014, 05:36:42 pm
EU but im staying very late so i guess besides the ping it does not matter
I can help you with some training if you want,just say hello to me when you see me on a server(eu1 or eu2,mostly)
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Camaris on October 13, 2014, 08:51:15 pm
Quote from: Phew on September 11, 2014, 07:20:54 pm
Duel server is much more effective for improving if you have a friend to coach you. That server is populated with the tryhardiest tryhards in all of cRPG, and many of them would roflfeintspinlolstabkick a newbie to death without ever helping them get better. Plenty of players that top scoreboard on Battle and Siege get their face stomped on duel, so it's not a good place to build one's confidence without someone actually trying to help you.

You will get better even if the guy stomps you every single time.
No matter who you fight duel server is the best way to get decent.
I spent hours at that server until i could block a bit and i spent a lot and lot more back when i was a bit better :P
Title: Re: I'm terrible at PvP melee combat
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on October 13, 2014, 09:06:07 pm
Duel will help with basic reflex stuff from muscle memory, but chances are a lot of the techniques you'll pick up for 1v1 aren't applicable for fighting multiple people (rofl pole feint copter is one of them) or with a team against one opponent. Duels are pretty good for getting an overview of blatant warband/wse exploits interesting game mechanics that people put to their advantage.

I guess the idea of flanking isn't all that complicated (though a lot of people don't do it anyway), but some practice may be needed to wobble your attacks around your teammate to hit the enemy.

The only practical way to get better vs multiple opponents while alone is to actually play in the battle/siege servers. Bots in DTV are too dumb, and they blatantly cheat with melee friendly fire behavior. A lot of strategy in 1 vs many involves positioning yourself/enemies so that as few as possible are able to attack you + as many as possible who are able to attack you risk smacking their teammate if you suddenly move in another direction.