cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Corsair831 on September 03, 2014, 02:44:18 pm

Title: buff wakizashi
Post by: Corsair831 on September 03, 2014, 02:44:18 pm: it's so small, it's so low damage, and i went out and bought one like an idiot :D

honestly i have had both an italian falchion and a wakizashi for a good few months now, and on every single build i've tried the wakizashi is just vastly inferior to the italian falchion (same length; why i'm comparing them)

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i suggest giving the wakizashi 2 (perhaps 3) more cut damage to even the two weapons out. 5 cut difference on a weapon that's already so ridiculously short and low damage is insane.

(to put this in perspective, the steel pick is MARGINALLY shorter than the wakizashi, with 34 pierce at +3 compared to the wakizashi's 32 cut; the speed bonus of the wakizashi hardly makes a difference because A - it's so insanely short anyway, and B - the steel pick's damage is so crazy high that it instantly hits half the time anyway)
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: McKli_PL on September 03, 2014, 04:17:34 pm: Dear devs plz plz plz buff steelpick make it 0 slot coz im playing it, plz plz buff bec the corbin to 51 pierce coz im playing it, give me also grenades for my my old friendcher and flying pony like a unicorn with bazooka!! :mrgreen: 8-)
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Molly on September 03, 2014, 04:29:42 pm: Waki is fine as it is. Stay away from it.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: MURDERTRON on September 03, 2014, 04:37:29 pm: You should have seen Gigglebyte use one. I'm pretty sure it's the fastest weapon in the game, and very effective in the right hands.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: pepejul on September 03, 2014, 04:42:23 pm: Quote from: MURDERTRON on September 03, 2014, 04:37:29 pm
You should have seen Gigglebyte use one. I'm pretty sure it's the fastest weapon in the game, and very effective in the right hand.

can use it in the left one ?
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Rebelyell on September 03, 2014, 04:44:01 pm: well speed for dmg
balanced as it is
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Osakasa on September 03, 2014, 04:55:21 pm: Keep wakisaskaszakiskasa as it is, just nerf Italian Falchion and "problem" solved.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Voncrow on September 03, 2014, 05:43:52 pm: With a weight requirement of 4, I think it's in a fine place.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: NejStark on September 03, 2014, 05:46:48 pm: Youd have to be waki to buy one.
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Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on September 03, 2014, 05:49:39 pm: .
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: pepejul on September 03, 2014, 05:51:22 pm: Quote from: SirCymro_Crusader on September 03, 2014, 05:49:39 pm
Remember Corsair:

It's not the size that counts, it's what you do with it :lol:

little sized penis words....
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Corsair831 on September 03, 2014, 06:29:21 pm: plsss people, try and use one before you put down what i'm saying here :(

these 70 length weapons are already incredibly difficult to use, and at the length we're talking (iddy biddy), 3 speed for 5 damage is no where near a good trade.

gief wakizashi 2 or 3 more cut damage plsssx
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Molly on September 03, 2014, 06:32:07 pm: I'm a proud owner of a MW Waki... I think it's great for what it is!
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Gmnotutoo on September 03, 2014, 06:45:29 pm: Quote from: Molly on September 03, 2014, 06:32:07 pm
I'm a proud owner of a MW Waki... I think it's great for what it is!

can I have it? :(
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Penitent on September 03, 2014, 06:46:11 pm: No, in my experience 1 speed is worth like 2 points of cut damage. That thing is fast as hell. I think it should have 1 less damage actually.

By the way you are in the wrong forum section for this.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 07:13:45 pm: Maybe a small change would suffice, but the difficulty would need to be increased for any larger ones. Italian falchion has 11 difficulty.

Penitent has a point. +1 PS is around 2-3 extra cut. A guy with +2 PS and a wakizashi would have a better weapon than +2 WM and the italian falchion.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Grumbs on September 03, 2014, 07:15:59 pm: Its 0 slot. It should not be a good primary weapon. The issue is that 0 slot weapons are too good in general
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Mr.K. on September 03, 2014, 07:16:21 pm: Quote from: Penitent on September 03, 2014, 06:46:11 pm
No, in my experience 1 speed is worth like 2 points of cut damage. That thing is fast as hell. I think it should have 1 less damage actually.

By the way you are in the wrong forum section for this.

It's been ignored on the right forum section for a while and bored Corsair couldn't come up with any of his funny trollthreads so here we are :)

Other weapons have been balanced 1spd=1c damage. This one should be the same, so give it two more cut. Done, everyone's happy. Just leave it the ridiculous weeboo price and it's all good.

Quote from: San on September 03, 2014, 07:13:45 pm
A guy with +2 PS and a wakizashi would have a better weapon than +2 WM and the italian falchion.

What?
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 07:22:13 pm: 1 PS provides you more than a few points of cut while 1 WM is essentially 1 extra speed.

This means that +2 PS and it gives it an extra 5 cut. +2 WM is an extra 2 speed (and I guess +1 cut). 34c 104 speed vs 35c 103 speed. Meh, not as much of a difference as I said. Anyways, it's not as UP as it seems, but it might deserve a small bump.

I think 0 slot weapons deserve to be decent. They're short and light.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Grumbs on September 03, 2014, 07:31:38 pm: http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=equipshop&cat=onehanded#!?page=itemdetail&id=520

Not short and not particularly light for a 1 hander. Good stab and decent side swings. Better than plenty of 1 handers imo. Length isn't a good stat for 1 handers anyway, you want them fast and short enough to not bounce and hit early in the animation (unless you are 1 hand cav). Its preference ofc, but I don't think being short is necessarily a bad thing for a 1 hander

Anyway the real issue is how good they are when combo'd with a shield and crossbow/bow
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 07:54:25 pm: I think it was too good back when it was 102 speed, 28p, and 30c. Now, it's neither overly strong nor fast. Most of the longer weapons are 99 speed and just as strong. You need to make use of both swings and stabs to match most of the others or else weapons dedicated in one area such as the liuyedao or espada eslavona will outshine it. It's one of the better 0 slot weapons at +5 length and a bit more cut for -2 speed, but it's also more expensive.

They are going to be good, but I would hope the build differences would help exploit the weaknesses rather than have artificially weak weapons. I think length is very important, which is probably where our biggest difference lie. ACS on foot is usable at 0 athletics because it's so long that you barely need to move much.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Voncrow on September 03, 2014, 08:36:52 pm: Instead, lets make Nitoryu a thing and have duel wielding with a Katana Wakazazhi combo.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Andswaru on September 03, 2014, 08:50:34 pm: Habi used the thing on eu1 one morning and ran the server ragged using it as an OP 4 directional rondel dagger. Its fast as lightening and can outspam anything. Lets not buff it pls.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Macbeth3 on September 03, 2014, 08:58:58 pm: Normally I would be okey with a 1-2 cut increase in it. But here's the catch! Isn't this wepaon designes for Low-strenght characters (The ones who have like 6 or 9 Strenght)? If you'd buff it then the strenght requirement would have to increase. probly to at least 6 instead of 4.

Ofcourse I ain't a Item balancer but there has to be a tradeoff. But if it gets a buff, it removes the actual intended use of this weapon. A decent 4-difficulty sword.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Nightmare798 on September 03, 2014, 09:28:14 pm: Look at the difficulty fegget. You can be much more effective agiwhore/ath-whore with wakizashi.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Rebelyell on September 03, 2014, 09:43:05 pm: Quote from: Molly on September 03, 2014, 06:32:07 pm
I'm a proud owner of a MW Waki... I think it's great for what it is!
can you put in templars armoury for day or 2?
pls I love to try it out
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Joseph Porta on September 03, 2014, 09:48:57 pm: Low req/insane speed, I don't see why this needs a buff tbh. Its one of those niche weapons that have their special place but arent top tier in any way.

Price could get a nerf imo
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Thryn on September 03, 2014, 10:30:20 pm: I was using it the other day, and it was fine; You get so close that a left swing is pretty much a guaranteed hit to the head and it's insanely fast. I just think it's too expensive, but you have to pay extra for those extra 100,000 folds in the blade.

The only trouble I had was when I got Agi Polearm s-keyed, which is annoying to deal with anyway. I'm just hoping that Agi Polearm S-Key Instahitting will die pretty soon, or else some balancer is going to have to touch a tiny stat and endure the ensuing shitstorm.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Corsair831 on September 03, 2014, 11:10:05 pm: Quote from: Thryn on September 03, 2014, 10:30:20 pm
I was using it the other day, and it was fine; You get so close that a left swing is pretty much a guaranteed hit to the head and it's insanely fast. I just think it's too expensive, but you have to pay extra for those extra 100,000 folds in the blade.

The only trouble I had was when I got Agi Polearm s-keyed, which is annoying to deal with anyway. I'm just hoping that Agi Polearm S-Key Instahitting will die pretty soon, or else some balancer is going to have to touch a tiny stat and endure the ensuing shitstorm.

that's rubbish, i have 10 athletics and 189 1h wpf, +3 wakizashi, the left swing is practically impossible to hit against someone who is backing away, or half the time someone who's standing still.

when i say it's short i mean it's short.
give it +2 cut and increase it's difficulty to 6 IMO.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: San on September 03, 2014, 11:18:31 pm: What's with the agi polearm QQ? lol

Anyways, I see nothing wrong with +1c +1p. Short falchion is 30c and the Wakizashi is probably worse than the Nordic Short Sword.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on September 04, 2014, 03:25:16 am: I still think that the reason katana and wakizashi cost so much is exotic weapon/weeaboo tax. You want it that bad for style points? Pay extra for the fancy sword. It's not a huge deal.

Having owned a +3 wakizashi, it's really good for what it is. It has the speed of daggers/knives but nearly double the length. The short falchion is borderline OP, so comparing it to that weapon alone isn't fair. It's an insanely fast 0 slot weapon that can block. When I was 18/24 1H shielder I loved the thing.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Molly on September 04, 2014, 09:33:08 am: Quote from: Rebelyell on September 03, 2014, 09:43:05 pm
can you put in templars armoury for day or 2?
pls I love to try it out
It's in the Ninja armoury.
Lemme check if someone is using it - if not, I'll put it in. :)

Edit: It's in the armoury. Enjoy.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: _Tak_ on September 04, 2014, 10:50:22 am: Nodachi needs a buff as well compared to Highland Claymore. The weaboo hate shouldn't be the main reason why eastern items have worse stats than European items.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Wraist on September 04, 2014, 10:53:46 am: Aside from the stab and the 1 less speed, the nodachi is stronger than the Claymore
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Kafein on September 04, 2014, 10:58:46 am: My problem with the waki is that it's a very rock-paper-scissors-ish weapon. If you fight guys in peasant armor it will cut them very easily and the speed makes it difficult to block, making it a good weapon against low armor. However, a little bit of metal will basically cockblock this weapon into oblivion.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Kalp on September 04, 2014, 11:11:29 am: Week or two ago I saw someone from Mercs [or ex Mercs, don't remember nick now] on siege server with it. He used shield too and he was on top of his team with good score. I wouldn't say it need a buff. Fast as hell.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Voncrow on September 04, 2014, 08:07:26 pm: Quote from: Wraist on September 04, 2014, 10:53:46 am
Aside from the stab and the 1 less speed, the nodachi is stronger than the Claymore

So aside from the weaknesses of a weapon it's actually strong?

Honestly though, the strength requirement on the wakizashi is way too low anyway, and should receive a nerf to that, which could be balanced out by a stat buff. Besides I don't see wakizashi being the choice of 4/36 or 6/33 builds anyway, it shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Andswaru on September 04, 2014, 08:46:13 pm: Another 5 Length, extra weight and a curved model evens out the lack of 1 damage/stab imo.
Title: Re: buff wakizashi
Post by: Okkam on September 08, 2014, 09:50:40 am: make it 1h\2h already.