cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Dupre on August 28, 2014, 06:16:11 am

Title: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Dupre on August 28, 2014, 06:16:11 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance)
" Though best known as a military and sporting weapon carried by European knights, the use of lances was widespread throughout Asia, the Middle East and North Africa wherever suitable mounts were available. As a secondary weapon, lancers of the Medieval period also bore swords or maces for hand-to-hand combat, since the lance was often a one-use-per-engagement weapon; assuming the lance survived the initial impact intact, it was (depending on the lance) usually too long, heavy and slow to be effectively used against opponents in a melee."

Cavalry should be adjusted. First off, you shouldn't be able to ride a horse around like its a sports car. Second, if you take a look at that wiki link above, you'll notice the obvious, lances were often a one-use-per-engagement weapon. I'm not sure if the Devs were trying to make this game as realistic as possible but this makes perfectly good sense to me. Anyways, my suggestions are below.

Suggestions:

1. Make lances destructible when riding on a horse. I think 2-3 kills or hitting thrusts would be good.
     Pros: variety of cav builds and no more 100% couch-sitting builds.
     Cons: None besides listening to the same crying bullshit from the vets that have  been here since day one and will play till the end no matter what, even if they do quit here and there(be honest with yourselves turds)

2. Give Horses stamina - You can dig deeper with this, maybe only when turning with the horse.
     Pros: Won't have F1 race cars with unlimited gas driving around in a middle age game and probably won't be so much spawn runs as soon as the round starts(good for the new players)
     Cons: Same thing as the first one. You'll have to deal with the teary eye vets who talk shit all the time about the developers. Doesn't make sense me, your still playing their mod but you talk shit to them every day? Who are you people?

3. Limit the amount of Cavs on each team, maybe make it a 1:1 ratio or even a counter build ratio(1 cav : 1 archer/thrower etc).
     Pros: limits the lamers from constantly playing couch-siting classes and this should help with community playing different builds.
     Cons: ......

This should be obvious to everyone but ping makes a huge difference, especially for cav. If you question this, you are retarded and should do some basic research.
I personally think this will help with keeping new players and it will help the community think of more creative builds.

Also, another suggestion - New players should get 3 loom points that are not transferable or sell-able. I know this is a tough thing to accomplish and keep up with especially with the community that the  devs have to deal with. Most likely almost 80% will abuse this if a loop hole was found. Almost everyone has at least 2 to 3 +3loomed gear.  Don't you guys want new challenges instead of playing the same old? and why would you want anyone to grind that much again? Just because you all went through it? New players will have to grind either way..

I really appreciate the Devs for creating and supporting this mod for the past 2-3 years. You guys have done an amazing job. I'm surprised TaleWorlds hasn't pulled you in to help out with a game mode or mod on their new M&B game.... Hopefully that happens.

Cheers
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Panos_ on August 28, 2014, 07:37:48 am
4. Get better perception and footwork, and stop whining about cav.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Tzar on August 28, 2014, 09:24:37 am
Waaarghhh!! WARGGHHH!! BUUU BUUU BIEE BOOO  :cry:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :arrow: http://forum.melee.org/the-chamber-of-tears/
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Macropus on August 28, 2014, 11:11:33 am
(click to show/hide)


Sorry, but your suggestion is simply bad from the gameplay point of view.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: matt2507 on August 28, 2014, 05:01:30 pm
4. Get better perception and footwork, and stop whining about cav.

5. Make any lance hit deadly for the victim. Because that's realistic.


6. If you still whining about cavs, make a cav char, go on eu1, be raped by 1h, 2h, poles, archers, xbow, throwers and theire mounted versions (ye ye, all classes can counter a cav...) and comme back here to see the stupidity of your suggestion.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on August 28, 2014, 05:13:38 pm
Sure cav could use some nerfs but this is not the way to do it.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Dupre on August 28, 2014, 05:27:41 pm
Thanks for the response, Gobblin King. I agree, these are just suggestions I came up with last night. I don't think it should be completely nerfed but there should be some kind of adjustments.

Thanks for the dumpster trash suggestions Panos, Matt2507, and Tzar.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Panos_ on August 28, 2014, 05:29:47 pm

6. If you still whining about cavs, make a cav char, go on eu1, be raped by 1h, 2h, poles, archers, xbow, throwers and theire mounted versions (ye ye, all classes can counter a cav...) and comme back here to see the stupidity of your suggestion.


Pls, my last 5 generations were played as a lancer, constant x5, constant topping.

A mediocre cavalry, can easily top.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: San on August 28, 2014, 05:30:44 pm
Addressing bump stab/slash took care of most of the problems I had with cav outside of some penalty adjustments with the hafted blades.

Quote
1. Make lances destructible when riding on a horse. I think 2-3 kills or hitting thrusts would be good.
     Pros: variety of cav builds and no more 100% couch-sitting builds.
     Cons: None besides listening to the same crying bullshit from the vets that have  been here since day one and will play till the end no matter what, even if they do quit here and there(be honest with yourselves turds)

It's hard to say whether lance cav is better than slashing cav. This just makes it so one playstyle is one-use so you can switch to another equally viable playstyle. I don't see a reason to force one to use another weapon like that, even for great lances. I would prefer a straight up nerf/slot change/whatever change directly addresses the problem.

Quote
2. Give Horses stamina - You can dig deeper with this, maybe only when turning with the horse.
     Pros: Won't have F1 race cars with unlimited gas driving around in a middle age game and probably won't be so much spawn runs as soon as the round starts(good for the new players)
     Cons: Same thing as the first one. You'll have to deal with the teary eye vets who talk shit all the time about the developers. Doesn't make sense me, your still playing their mod but you talk shit to them every day? Who are you people?

Does your horse just stop if you run out of stamina? It seems odd that turning will drain it. Why would you have such low stamina that you can't reach the enemy spawn efficiently? Based on your wording, it also seems like something that won't regenerate. If you want to prevent spawn rapes, I think it will be easier to just create choke points in front of the spawns to ward off cav rushing.

Quote
3. Limit the amount of Cavs on each team, maybe make it a 1:1 ratio or even a counter build ratio(1 cav : 1 archer/thrower etc).
     Pros: limits the lamers from constantly playing couch-siting classes and this should help with community playing different builds.
     Cons: ......

I'm not sure about limiting the total number, but it seems like a good idea to try to avoid lopsided ratios where one team has all the cav. It'll seem like a pain to get it to work properly if someone tries his hand at it.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Penitent on August 28, 2014, 05:36:51 pm
I think breaking lances would be awesome.  I would buff the couch, and make it so there is a 1/3 chance of a couch breaking the lance.  The sound of breaking wood, the cav rider wheeling around to draw his sword -- this would make the game cool and exciting.

Maybe I'm just a romantic though. :)
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Panos_ on August 28, 2014, 05:38:11 pm
I think breaking lances would be awesome.  I would buff the couch, and make it so there is a 1/3 chance of a couch breaking the lance.  The sound of breaking wood, the cav rider wheeling around to draw his sword -- this would make the game cool and exciting.

Maybe I'm just a romantic though. :)

I would be up for it, if it was an equal penalty to other classes aswell.

Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: NejStark on August 28, 2014, 05:40:33 pm
Yeah, Id like to see Darmasters pike snap now and then.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Penitent on August 28, 2014, 05:47:30 pm
I would be up for it, if it was an equal penalty to other classes aswell.

Well it's not really a penalty.  The couch damage would be buffed, or cooldown of couch reduced, and normal lance thrusts would be unaffected.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: matt2507 on August 28, 2014, 05:58:10 pm

Pls, my last 5 generations were played as a lancer, constant x5, constant topping.

A mediocre cavalry, can easily top.

Ye but like you say, it's for your last 5 gens.
I propose to him to go cav for the first time to see what is cavalry in reality and not in the biased view of an infantery player.

And for the counter mentioned, i have 20+ gen on cav and this does not prevent me from being raped by all thoses classes.

Everything is a matter of observation. For both cavs and their victims.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Tzar on August 28, 2014, 06:03:03 pm
Plz stop agreeing to evry fucking whiny noob whore, WHO enters the forum......

Cant believe you fucktards are talking about wanting more nerfs to this shit stained and slow ass combat mod....

This thread is just another, plz nerf it, cause cant be arsed to deal with it....
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Dupre on August 28, 2014, 06:15:58 pm
Ye but like you say, it's for your last 5 gens.
I propose to him to go cav for the first time to see what is cavalry in reality and not in the biased view of an infantery player.

And for the counter mentioned, i have 20+ gen on cav and this does not prevent me from being raped by all thoses classes.

Everything is a matter of observation. For both cavs and their victims.

I have a cav alt, I'm not new to c-rpg. These aren't biased suggestions. I don't even die that often to cavs, but after observing for the past month, I've noticed that cav builds are always on top with a really high score, most of them always go to spawn at the beginning of the round, and the other day I saw a cav kill 4 people in less than 20 seconds. Literally had a machine gun lance stabbing people left and right.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Tzar on August 28, 2014, 06:19:37 pm
Buu buu biii booo  :cry:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Dupre on August 28, 2014, 06:22:20 pm
Plz stop agreeing to evry fucking whiny noob whore, WHO enters the forum......

Cant believe you fucktards are talking about wanting more nerfs to this shit stained and slow ass combat mod....

This thread is just another, plz nerf it, cause cant be arsed to deal with it....

Tzar, just posting on here dude. This isn't the shit talking or crying forum.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Ikarus on August 28, 2014, 06:24:47 pm
Cavalry build.

It is expensive. It is hard. And it can be extremely frustrating.

Make lances destructible when riding on a horse.
No, because a horse build is extremely expensive already

Give Horses stamina - You can dig deeper with this, maybe only when turning with the horse.
No. They already have two major weaknesses:
1. they´re big (great target for enemy ranged units)
2. They rear. They rear A LOT. Bee collides with your horses ear? Rear. Enemy farts and the fart cloud gets into the horses way? Rear. You ride 2 mph slow against a small branch? Rear. Why do you think are people barely using light horses? Because rearing with a light horse mostly means death.

Limit the amount of Cavs on each team, maybe make it a 1:1 ratio or even a counter build ratio(1 cav : 1 archer/thrower etc).
No. Cav aren´t the only things that counter cav. Polearms, ranged and throwers do that too.

Enough of my "no"s now. Now comes the important part:

"Walk in the boots of your enemies if you want to understand them."

I highly suggest you to make yourself a horse build and try it out for 1,2 gens. Playing cav isn´t as frontal as it used to be (and as it actually was in reality), thanks to plenty of nerfs, cav players (except ranged cav of course[cunts]) HAVE to play sneaky. Attacking the enemy when they don´t expect it and dealing fast strikes is actually the only thing left for them to do. Ever seen a cav with heavy lance/1h directly charging an enemy from the front? No, the range will mostly not be enough; even with a heavy lance it´s really difficult to outrange some guy with a 2h sword, and they mostly will move just right so you won´t be able to hit them.
Yeh, i knoow, great lances are longer and of course mostly charge directly, but they´re really easy to avoid if you know how to move. (also, you may not be able to block a couch attack, but you can chamber it if you practice that a bit)

How to deal with cav then? Golden rule: Perception
Since backstabbing and quick strikes from behind is mostly the only thing left for them to do, a short look around with your ^-key (or whereever you put the free-view cam) can save your life and take a cav´s life in 75% of the moments. Also, listen to hoofsteps, even if you think that it´s your ally, turn around to do an extra check. Especially at the beginning of a round, people don´t expect a cav attack from behind cause "horses can´t be at spawn that fast, nah?". Sure they can.

Pissed with cav? Grab a pike (you don´t even have to have wpf for that) and just watch your teams back (especially archers, who can sorta be magnets for enemy cav). Become a ranged class and stay close to trees, buildings, other pikers. Or just have    perception.


So please don´t be surprised why you´re getting so many downvotes, cav isn´t an easy class and it can be easily countered (although people keep forgetting their surroundings and keep paying no attention).

Try a cav build and see for yourself! :)

EDIT: Just read that you have a cav alt. What class? What build? How long have you played yet? Cav topping the scoreboard because people don´t pay attention and those cav mostly have heavy horses, but remember: you don´t want to pay that guys upkeep.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Dupre on August 28, 2014, 06:30:52 pm
Cavalry build.

It is expensive. It is hard. And it can be extremely frustrating.

Make lances destructible when riding on a horse.
No, because a horse build is extremely expensive

Give Horses stamina - You can dig deeper with this, maybe only when turning with the horse.
No. They already have two major weaknesses:
1. they´re big (great target for enemy ranged units)
2. They rear. They rear A LOT. Bee collides with your horses ear? Rear. Enemy farts and the fart cloud gets into the horses way? Rear. You ride 2 mph slow against a small branch? Rear. Why do you think are people barely using light horses? Because rearing with a light horse mostly means death.

Limit the amount of Cavs on each team, maybe make it a 1:1 ratio or even a counter build ratio(1 cav : 1 archer/thrower etc).
No. Cav aren´t the only things that counter cav. Polearms, ranged and throwers do that too.

Enough of my "no"s now. Now comes the important part:

"Walk in the boots of your enemies if you want to understand them."
[/i]

I highly suggest you to make yourself a horse build and try it out for 1,2 gens. Playing cav isn´t as frontal as it used to be (and as it actually was in reality), thanks to plenty of nerfs, cav players (except ranged cav of course[cunts]) HAVE to play sneaky. Attacking the enemy when they don´t expect it and dealing fast strikes is actually the only thing left for them to do. Ever seen a cav with heavy lance/1h directly charging an enemy from the front? No, the range will mostly not be enough; even with a heavy lance it´s really difficult to outrange some guy with a 2h sword, and they mostly will move just right so you won´t be able to hit them.
Yeh, great lances are longer, but really easy to avoid if you know how to move. (also, you may not be able to block a couch attack, but you can chamber it if you practice that a bit)

How to deal with cav then? Golden rule: Perception
Since backstabbing and quick strikes from behind is mostly the only thing left for them to do, a short look around with your ^-key (or whereever you put the free-view cam) can save your life and take a cav´s life in 75% of the moments. Also, listen to hoofsteps, even if you think that it´s your ally, turn around to do an extra check. Especially at the beginning of a round, people don´t expect a cav attack from behind cause "horses can´t be at spawn that fast, nah?". Sure they can.

Pissed with cav? Grab a pike (you don´t even have to have wpf for that) and just watch your teams back (especially archers, who can sorta be magnets for enemy cav). Become a ranged class and stay close to trees, buildings, other pikers. Or just have    perception.


So please don´t be surprised why you have so many downvotes, cav isn´t an easy class and it can be easily countered (although people keep forgetting their surroundings and keep paying no attention).

Try a cav build and see for yourself! :)

Byzantium clan, all of you seem extremely biased on this. Obviously you guys play cav alot...
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Ikarus on August 28, 2014, 06:37:56 pm
EDIT: Just read that you have a cav alt. What class? What build? How long have you played yet? Cav topping the scoreboard because people don´t pay attention and those cav mostly have heavy horses, but remember: you don´t want to pay that guys upkeep.

I gave up playing lance cav 1 year ago (and I played for almost 2 years) because it became so friggin frustrating (thanks, ranged)

If you´re really pissed by cav, try a pike or ranged build. Nothing is more satisfying than stopping an enemy cav in the middle of your team and watching it getting ripped to pieces, like a lamb getting slaughtered by a bunch of hungry wolves  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Panos_ on August 28, 2014, 06:42:53 pm
Byzantium clan, all of you seem extremely biased on this. Obviously you guys play cav alot...

just for the record, whats your main class?
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Tzar on August 28, 2014, 07:24:15 pm
whats your main class?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mid5WGwD7Gs
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: matt2507 on August 28, 2014, 07:54:11 pm
I have a cav alt, I'm not new to c-rpg. These aren't biased suggestions. I don't even die that often to cavs, but after observing for the past month, I've noticed that cav builds are always on top with a really high score
Most of cavs players have more than 5 gen on cav now and there are many new peasants (priority target for cavs  :rolleyes:) and many agi builds with low armor on the game actualy so it's not realy suprising.

most of them always go to spawn at the beginning of the round
Yes, this shit spawnraping need some rework. This is probably the only thing i agreed with you. It's gay and lame as hell.

and the other day I saw a cav kill 4 people in less than 20 seconds. Literally had a machine gun lance stabbing people left and right.
Observation like i say. If the players have opened their eyes, that cav should be probably dead after the 1st kill.
This is not really incredible. I already see some melee players killing 4, 5, 6 or plus players in les than 20 seconds.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Tojo on August 29, 2014, 12:00:41 am
Byzantium clan, all of you seem extremely biased on this. Obviously you guys play cav alot...

Lol yes the people who play cav a lot will be better at it,  just like with anything in life. The average cav can top the scoreboard on a nice flat map because of two things speed of travel and damage bonus. For example when cav attacks they are looking for enemies that are not aware and lined up. When you hit 4 people back to back with cav in 10 seconds you generate alot of points. Infantry can't do this simple because they are too slow. This is the reason cav tops the scoreboard. ..

However, even veterans of cav can still be destroyed by a peasant with a pitchfork if they pay attention to their backs. Basically the easiest way to kill any cav is with situational awareness. For example,  if you know cav is coming through a tight space, wait for them just around the corner. Hear the thundering of hooves, better turn around.

Right now cav is the weakest it has Ben in a long time. You can stop a horse with a Bec De Corbin that's just silly.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Simon_Templar on August 31, 2014, 02:38:07 pm
Actually i do most of the kills with greatlance now. And when they would break. You coundnt play medieval cav anymore. Because like i always try to tell you guys. Game would needs a more realistic damaging system before thinking of implementing something like lance breaking. Another thing is what is really unrealistic that you can jump in this game and hit an rider this is whats wrong here. Also it would be better to nerf the 1 hand stab instead of nerfing cav anymore. For me the problem is that armors are not that good anymore because of the idiotic weaponmaster system. but i told you people that ages ago!!! But still you want to nerf cav. For me you just cant play and won t see the point that cav should be OP and was OP in medieval times.
Title: Re: Cavalry suggestions
Post by: Simon_Templar on August 31, 2014, 02:42:11 pm
Another point is as a infantry man with shield you could take a spear with you. What is more retarded that you cant use that much shildskill anymore that you can crush them with Mauls. This is what is retarded mister so when you threading cav you pretty much threading every other class as well because you change the balance of the game.

So let me guess you are 2 hander....... :wink: