cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Breidr on August 14, 2014, 05:50:08 am

Title: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Breidr on August 14, 2014, 05:50:08 am
1,679 Upkeep (Max)

Losing gold due to constant 1x Multiplier.
Wear cheaper armor and keep loomed weapon and shield so I can still be effective.

982 Upkeep (Max)

Expensive weapon and shield break every round so gold is still lost.

WTF game, seriously?

Must wear peasant gear to make gold, or get lucky and get on good team for multiplier.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Kirbies on August 14, 2014, 06:42:06 am
You must be very unlucky, because I slowly make money (barely) with my 2700 max upkeep char
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: SugarHoe on August 14, 2014, 06:44:01 am
honestly there's really nothing you can do about upkeep except
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you really just need to get on  a good team with a multi or get valor, except that valor is broken most of the time so not an option. I make money with like double of that an I rarely get upkeep, looks like you have the illuminati and big pharma after you are really unlucky
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: chesterotab on August 14, 2014, 07:14:40 am
I feel your pain Breidr. Not being able to get valor on team 2 really cuts down on perma x5 trains that used to easily cover upkeep. I went from being able to stay even and make a little here and there to losing 10-20k every battle session. 10-20k in upkeep isn't unreasonable for how much I crutch and fill all of my slots, but it still makes me miss being able to make gold.

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Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Latvian on August 14, 2014, 08:56:51 am
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4,2k upkeep
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Teeth on August 14, 2014, 10:09:40 am
I play with 4000-5000 max upkeep gear on my cav and I haven't had to transfer money to it in ages. Key to not getting 'fucked' by upkeep is to stop misunderstanding the system and worry about round by round losses. Upkeep balances out in the long term. Yes, usually if you have an unlucky x1 streak you lose money, but then you have a higher multiplier and it balances out. Get a buffer of like 50k gold, start playing with 2000 max upkeep gear and only check your gold stock after like 10 hours. Guess what, you will have gained money.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Johnnyfirs on August 14, 2014, 11:43:39 am
Quote from: Teeth on August 14, 2014, 10:09:40 am
I play with 4000-5000 max upkeep gear on my cav and I haven't had to transfer money to it in ages. Key to not getting 'fucked' by upkeep is to stop misunderstanding the system and worry about round by round losses. Upkeep balances out in the long term. Yes, usually if you have an unlucky x1 streak you lose money, but then you have a higher multiplier and it balances out. Get a buffer of like 50k gold, start playing with 2000 max upkeep gear and only check your gold stock after like 10 hours. Guess what, you will have gained money.

I'm sorry Teeth but you are kind of biased - I mean you have the Vanguard rapetrain at your side plus your permavalour.
Not saying that's a bad thing, I for one envy that, but most players just don't have the same privileges.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Teeth on August 14, 2014, 12:00:50 pm
I know, that is why I break even money with 4000-5000 max upkeep gear, whilst I am suggesting him to use gear with 2000 max upkeep. Which is half, which means that if my average multiplier is x4, which I highly doubt, and his is 2, which is statistically very probable, he should have the same experience.

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As you can see, statistically, even a 2,8 average multiplier requires a 70% win rate. Now of course valour greatly affects these statistics, but even when completely discounting valour, the average player has a multi of 1.9.

http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/maintenance-update-crpg-0-223/

According to this thread, an average multiplier of 1.9 should allow you to wear about 3500 max upkeep without having you lose any money. This dates from 2011, but the breaking chance should be still at 4%, slightly less than that for your weapons through wpf, and slightly higher if you are using arrows or bolts. The claim that you lose money at 900 max upkeep is statistically complete bullshit, and can only stem from you looking at the extreme short term, which you should not do.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Erebosaither on August 14, 2014, 12:22:57 pm
Quote from: Teeth on August 14, 2014, 10:09:40 am
I play with 4000-5000 max upkeep gear on my cav and I haven't had to transfer money to it in ages. Key to not getting 'fucked' by upkeep is to stop misunderstanding the system and worry about round by round losses. Upkeep balances out in the long term. Yes, usually if you have an unlucky x1 streak you lose money, but then you have a higher multiplier and it balances out. Get a buffer of like 50k gold, start playing with 2000 max upkeep gear and only check your gold stock after like 10 hours. Guess what, you will have gained money.


Absolutely +1

My upkeep;
3,944 gold
Upkeep (max)

And i'm still making money  :lol:
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Breidr on August 14, 2014, 12:51:23 pm
I don't even consider valor (broken or not) when determining how much gear I can carry.  Rarely get valor, so it being broken doesn't effect me.  What effects me the most is the [broken] multiplier system and the will of the team balancer.

I'm not exaggerating, really:
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The gold expenditure you see in the beginning is me buying gear for gold and loom points after retiring.  The rest is what I've been playing on for about two weeks.  Mostly even, which is sad, but with a big dip at the end, which prompted me to "complain."
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How can I see people run around in heavy armor or on fast horses indefinitely, but I can barely scrape together some medium armor, a shield, and a decently sharp blade?
What gives?

I'm sorry I'm not LOLPRO, I don't get valor.  I can't ride perma x5.  I'm not part of a huge banner stack that can rule the server either.

I'm just an average player that wants to have some fun, but the more I look into it, the more I feel the system is stacked against new and average players.  The multiplier system is probably the biggest problem.  Either get valor or win the coin flip.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Teeth on August 14, 2014, 03:39:38 pm
Could you post the entire statistics page like this, so we can see how much you played and can compare the pay with the upkeep more easily?

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That is my cavalry character which uses expensive equipment. You can see how madly inconsistent upkeep is. I got 23k pay and received 31k upkeep over it, while the other day I got 11k pay and got 4k upkeep over it.

If both your big drops are due to buying equipment it does look like you earn money on average at least once they are discounted. The scale of the graph is very unprecise because of the 75k expenditure, so every millimeter above the 0 line represents 6k worth of income. If I'd do a quick guesstimation you earned probably over 70k in the third and second week. The fourth week seems a little rougher and it looks like you had a very bad x1 streak on the last day, but still that loss is easily compensated by earlier gains. I am quite sure that if you used the same gear throughout all this, you could wear it forever without ever running out of money, as long as you have a 50k buffer.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Mr.K. on August 14, 2014, 03:44:46 pm
For an average player I think something like 40k total worth of gear should be doable on EU1 and not lose gold. However Siege has much worse upkeep it seems. Maybe due to having x1 or x2 most of the time, averaging way below that 1.9 that Teeth posted earlier. Make sure you have 30k gold or something and then you can forget the upkeep with medium gear. Sometimes you'll get unlucky and lose gold, sometimes you win.

Then there's the arrows and throwing stuff. More than one set of each item increases the chance of braking a lot. Carrying 4 stacks of Jarids basically guarantees them breaking every single round. I'm not sure how the breaking chance is calculated for carrying more than one item, but it's not done right. Only one of them can break, but the chance is much higher than twice as often. This increases the upkeep for archers, horses archers and throwers immensely and might have to be looked at.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Gravoth_iii on August 14, 2014, 04:02:18 pm
Wear expensive armour and weapon, get multiplier and no repairs. Ez lyfe
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: SugarHoe on August 14, 2014, 04:32:29 pm
Quote from: Breidr on August 14, 2014, 12:51:23 pm
  I'm not part of a huge banner stack that can rule the server either.
(click to show/hide)
ur in best clan EU/AUS/NA/CHN
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Inglorious on August 14, 2014, 04:32:48 pm
Economy builds are semi-effective methinks. Before the valor broke and I retired into STR crutch infantry, I could wear full plate, heavy lance, cataphract and make 20k in a sitting.

And look into getting a loadout more like this:

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It's lighter weight than what you wear, which is always good for WPF. Lower cost than what I see you normally wear, for saving your bank from drying up. And despite looking weak it has high cost/effectiveness, and it goes with your clans theme color of blue.

Don't skimp on your helmet though, because odds are your face will take an average of 40% of the hits you take due to targeting swings. Unless you have some helmet you enjoy using, alternatively that gives you low armor, but the look you desire.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Kafein on August 14, 2014, 04:35:47 pm
Quote from: Mr.K. on August 14, 2014, 03:44:46 pm
Then there's the arrows and throwing stuff. More than one set of each item increases the chance of braking a lot. Carrying 4 stacks of Jarids basically guarantees them breaking every single round. I'm not sure how the breaking chance is calculated for carrying more than one item, but it's not done right. Only one of them can break, but the chance is much higher than twice as often. This increases the upkeep for archers, horses archers and throwers immensely and might have to be looked at.

You have no idea how broken combinatorially awesome upkeep is. But I prefer not to tell everybody about the details.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Herezy92 on August 14, 2014, 04:45:41 pm
I play my build with the same armor for already 3 years.
I went to 560k gold max 10 months ago. (because i play with expensive gears, but at least i ALWAYS made money)

I restarded 3months ago, and now, i am constantly losing gold since 1 month or maybe a bit more.
So i decided to pick up less expensive gear from time to time. But i'm still losing gold.
At the moment i am at 477K gold.

Did something change ????
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Clockworkkiller on August 14, 2014, 06:01:53 pm
maybe crpg is telling you to stop playing and go outside
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Krax on August 14, 2014, 06:44:08 pm
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Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Fearvich on September 05, 2014, 07:46:54 pm
Breidr's last posts and play date.
RIP.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Enver on September 18, 2014, 02:50:32 am
Yeah upkeep definitely feels likes its higher than before

 
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Lord_Kitazawa_of_Voodoo on September 18, 2014, 03:30:49 am
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Heresy!!! Burn Mute this man!!!
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Digglez on September 18, 2014, 06:40:28 am
whats your WPF? Are you using any ranged weapons?  Both affect weapon upkeep
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on September 18, 2014, 08:28:47 am
3.5k upkeep and I'm killing it.

Went from 35 to 60k in 4 days. Boomshakalaka

Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Voncrow on September 18, 2014, 10:17:48 pm
Quote from: Lord_Kitazawa_of_Voodoo on September 18, 2014, 03:30:49 am
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Heresy!!! Burn Mute this man!!!

Why not both, I got the oil.
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: zottlmarsch on September 18, 2014, 10:20:27 pm
Title: Re: Upkeep Conspiracy
Post by: Admerius on September 19, 2014, 02:01:30 pm
The problem with %-risk based systems... some people gets the short stick some other's can ride around a half day with Plated charger without a single upkeep on it...

I still remember my first gen and how I had to run around in light-weaboo and and BuShi to break even, and that lasted for a couple of weeks...

Now I have a luck streak going on Recyc_Le_Bin. Saracen elite armour, iron greaves, lamellar gloves, Saranid veiled helmet(the heaviest kind), elite scimmy+3, halfmooon shield(3 skill). And I'm making a few k gold every day.

There is no conspiracy!
Read some astrology and you will realize that the planets are not aligned in your favor.