cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Ulter on August 11, 2014, 06:06:35 pm

Title: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Ulter on August 11, 2014, 06:06:35 pm
   Mounted combat in Warband always felt kind of strange and artificial to me. Weapons hitting horses or humans at very high speeds seem to just warp through them.
   In reality the power of the impact would at least knock the weapon out of the user's hands or even break it.

  How about making weapons in c-rpg behave in a similar way?

  If the stab's damage speed bonus is too large the weapon would be dropped. Some polearms such as pike or long spear could be excluded from this, to emphasize their anti-cav specialisation.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Tydeus on August 11, 2014, 06:28:10 pm
I've been thinking about something like this for couched lances.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 11, 2014, 07:53:00 pm
 1 hand stabs against a horse should break your wrist.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Kafein on August 11, 2014, 09:54:44 pm
1 hand stabs against a horse should break your wrist.

More like break between a half and your whole body really.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Duster on August 11, 2014, 09:58:10 pm
I think this is an example of fun vs. realism, with the way it is right now outweighing making it realistic.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Legs on August 11, 2014, 10:42:09 pm
I've been thinking about something like this for couched lances.

This could be cool, giving it durability having it break like a shield. It would balance out the fact that it's unblockable and make secondary weapons on horseback more useful.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on August 11, 2014, 11:00:03 pm
Doesn't seem like a fun mechanic, though I rarely ever play cavalry anyway.

There are a lot of things in warband that don't make sense, but the alternative is anti-fun gameplay due to engine limitations.

Here's my list of unrealistic mechanics that kind of need to stay for combat to remain "fun":

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 12, 2014, 12:22:10 am
The other day, I stabbed Rohy's horse and Rohy in the same stab, killing them both with a dagger.  So you're telling me my 36 length dagger went all the way through the horse's head, through all that bone, nevermind getting stuck on the hand guard, and still stabbed Rohy in the face.

Must be a magic dagger.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on August 12, 2014, 12:53:09 am
Makes about as much sense as hitting the rider through the horse's face at once with any swing besides a long pokey stab, but yeah, that's what happens.

Particularly puzzling with daggers/blunt weapons/picks and morningstar.

Apparently you just bludgeon straight through, but once the horse is dead it becomes a meat shield for the rider without crushing/suffocating them.

And yet, we can never hit multiple humans with one swing. Worbond fizziks.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Tomas on August 16, 2014, 12:48:52 pm
Would love to see this and suggested in the past that it should apply to all weapons....very simply, if you do more than a certain (quite high) amount of damage in a single hit then you drop the weapon.

That would mean
- cav is better balanced and instead has an impact moment
- cav becomes more tactical....when to go for the higher damage charge and who to use it against (why waste a couch on a peasant)
- 1Hs and especially 2Hs are nerfed vs cav as their attacks run the risk of causing enough damage for them to drop weapons
- 1Hs and 2Hs remain as is in normal melee as the threshold should be set too high to really effect them.
- Polearms remain vs cav as they are since they rear horses
- Ranged remain as is
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 16, 2014, 07:14:37 pm
I don't see why ranged shouldn't have a chance to drop their weapons.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: imisshotmail on August 17, 2014, 07:09:26 pm
I've been thinking about something like this for couched lances.

this would really ruin pole cavalry as an independent class if stabbing is kept as it is at the moment because to actually kill people as lance cavalry you pretty much always need to couch them.. stabbing someone 1 or 2 times is pretty easy and obviously really good but no one dies from that and after they have been hit 1/2 times they don't fall for anything again and just downblock.

if this was introduced I just see it promoting the awful terrible cavalry gameplay of horse bumping or stabbing people already engaged in fights and not going after people solo ever, and obviously if you are going to do that people would use 1h/2h cavalry weapons and do the same damage as a couch anyway as they are doing it.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Ikarus on August 17, 2014, 07:22:35 pm
so cav should get some kind of "clumsyness"-factor?

could be an idea that, f.e. when a lightly armored rider tries to couch a heavy/plated unit, that he/she has the chance to drop the lance due to the impact (or additionally, even fall from the horse if the weight difference is big enough lol)

Quote
I don't see why ranged shouldn't have a chance to drop their weapons.
it would make no sense for ranged because that would really be a pure "clumsyness"-factor. Who would ever play a class which has a chance to accidently drop a weapon, anytime on the battlefield? That´s like adding "bad luck" to a class  :lol:
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: _Tak_ on August 18, 2014, 03:27:22 pm
informtion hidden
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Tydeus on August 18, 2014, 03:36:41 pm
if this was introduced I just see it promoting the awful terrible cavalry gameplay of horse bumping or stabbing people already engaged in fights and not going after people solo ever, and obviously if you are going to do that people would use 1h/2h cavalry weapons and do the same damage as a couch anyway as they are doing it.
Nope. San and I did some testing with a rather ancient horse bump script, recently. Found some issues with it, and addressed them. Long story short, bump slashing/thrusting/shooting will be significantly less effective.

Thrust lance cav is fine atm and doesn't need the couch for anything. I'm not great cav, you know that, but when I can top the scoreboard with 20 kills on my (dedicated) lancer (without couching) and have Rohypnol say "Lancer is good again?" in response to my performance, I don't think it's fair to argue that this would "ruin" pole cavalry.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Tzar on August 18, 2014, 05:54:03 pm
Well.... cant belieave im reading this shit post from devs.....

So..... more nerfing shit incomming?? srly ??

While you at it, using realism as argument.. make plate immune to cut weapons, implement sprinting, make all wooden weapons breakable, make horses able to kill players when bumping at full speed, make arrow quivers realistic and give them lower ammo ect etc etc

(click to show/hide)
... i could go on an on....

Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: San on August 18, 2014, 06:11:06 pm
I don't think something like this would be a good mechanic. It punishes you for hitting the enemy.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Ulter on August 19, 2014, 01:09:59 am
I don't think something like this would be a good mechanic. It punishes you for hitting the enemy.

It's not a punishment, it's a tradeoff. You have the ability to land a very powerful, unblockable hit (in case of both couched lance and 1h/2h against a horse) but you might lose your weapon in the process. (Making proper sidearms a useful thing for cav)

Well.... cant belieave im reading this shit post from devs.....

So..... more nerfing shit incomming?? srly ??

While you at it, using realism as argument.. make plate immune to cut weapons, implement sprinting, make all wooden weapons breakable, make horses able to kill players when bumping at full speed, make arrow quivers realistic and give them lower ammo ect etc etc ... i could go on an on....
I really hope the devs won't just implement this as cav nerf, but instead use the idea to enhance the way cavalry works in c-rpg now.
As for the realism...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: San on August 19, 2014, 01:16:53 am
I just think the fundamental system needs to be different before having such a thing. You have a point, Ulter, but I don't think the couched weapons are great enough to simply be one use.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 19, 2014, 07:13:52 pm
Sounds great, also implement when my horse runs you over that you get knocked unconscious for anywhere from 3 to 90 seconds, with a 7% chance of instant death.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 19, 2014, 09:39:47 pm
And with durability on couch lances, when loomed, the durability increases significantly so it is worth the money. (at mw can couch like 5 peeps or somt)

1h cav seems really op. I went with a 27/12 if tank with like 46 body armor and 50-ish head armor. still got 1hit by Royanss.

oh and why does everyone use ACS as inf now anyways? did it get buffed?
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Andswaru on August 20, 2014, 05:47:12 pm
instastab reach.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: MURDERTRON on August 20, 2014, 09:15:22 pm
What you should do is make it so great lances break every time, then you have to QQF and an NPC squire runs over to your horse to give you another lance.

This is clearly the change the community has always wanted.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on August 20, 2014, 09:45:15 pm
What you should do is make it so great lances break every time, then you have to QQF and an NPC squire runs over to your horse to give you another lance.

This is clearly the change the community has always wanted.

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Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: AwesomeHail on August 21, 2014, 07:36:28 am
instastab reach.

stay away from my iron staff >:C
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Inglorious on August 21, 2014, 10:39:33 am
I don't think something like this would be a good mechanic. It punishes you for hitting the enemy.
Thank God, the voice of reason showed up.

If you're tired of seeing agile great lancers, put in a request to have the strength to use the GL upped to keep those dirty STF's with 11 riding from being able to use them. IMO, that's not playing cavalry, that's being lazy. I know a very many people who would be devastated by a change like that. God forbid they learn to play aggressive as cavalry.

I.E. no more being 10 meters away and being able to lower a lance and instagib someone because you have no acceleration wind-up time
or, from a infantry point of view
I.E. Cavalry wearing nothing but rags and riding at the speed of light are no longer a giant threat because they would have to sacrifice some more points from agi towards str to use that dirty GL they abused you with!
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: Andswaru on August 21, 2014, 10:47:47 am
stay away from my iron staff >:C

remove knockdown from staff, asap.
Title: Re: cavalry & dropping weapons on impact
Post by: _Tak_ on August 21, 2014, 02:44:55 pm
Thank God, the voice of reason showed up.

If you're tired of seeing agile great lancers, put in a request to have the strength to use the GL upped to keep those dirty STF's with 11 riding from being able to use them. IMO, that's not playing cavalry, that's being lazy. I know a very many people who would be devastated by a change like that. God forbid they learn to play aggressive as cavalry.

Limiting people to certain builds is just a retarded idea. Builds should have variety so people can choose to go with which build they want to play with. Also there aren't that many people around who would have 11 Ridings build. With 11 ridings that leaves you very little to no str that means you can easilly get 1 shoted from a xbox/ archers. Even a small throwing weapon can put you at a massive risk when charging due to speed bonus. don't forget great lance is not the only lance that can couched.

Give free respec to all agile great lancers if what you said got implemented as it will fucked up their build.