cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Verore on August 05, 2014, 04:50:56 am

Title: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Verore on August 05, 2014, 04:50:56 am
I just started playing this mod after like 30 hours of single player campaign and still totally suck.
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I'm using polearm + shield after I tried out multiple builds and quite like it. What weapon + shield should I aim to get, right now I'm mostly borrowing from my clan armory. I heard that going for the most expensive gear isn't such a great idea. Only thing I bought with my own gold is a Cuir Bouilli over Mail for body.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Taser on August 05, 2014, 05:19:32 am
Best tip is to just keep playing.

But if you can work on blocking, footwork, judging weapon lengths, and so on you will do a lot better. I don't know how good you are at any of that but being good at those will immensely help you.

Practicing with a clan member or two will help those skills and get you used to it. Plus you're pretty low lvl at lvl 17 with only 4 PS and 3 ath. Around mid 20's you should be doing better.

Make sure you know what kind of build you want to do (saw that you want to do shield and polearm). So make sure you ask around for good builds for that (pretty much all melee does well in the range of 15/24 to 24/15).

Good luck to you and definitely talk to clan members and ask if they can train you a bit with blocking, footwork and the like. Footwork can be taught but its much easier (at least imo) to learn while actually fighting people not in a duel.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Soulreaver on August 05, 2014, 06:29:09 am
1) use a lot of athletics as archer, crossbow, horse archer, thrower etc, if an enemy comes close, just run
2)become a shielder with 5-6-7 shield skill (still shield or another heavy), just hold it till your enemy is not tired to hit and run backwards, then attack with some weapons like
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
, try to learn to spam
3) dont use your current build
4) use plate armors and go for 33/6, swing your sword right and left killing every one, as a newcomer you can try to find some sponsors help
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: korppis on August 05, 2014, 08:09:39 am
It's really hard to do well while below level 25. For a level 30 I'd propably make something like this:

(click to show/hide)

Shield + pole is pretty good support class, but it's gonna be painful 1 vs 1 and when ganked. Best is to learn to play without the shield, so try to learn manual blocking and footwork. Propably best place to start is single player where you can use the trainers. Also learn to hit back fast right after block so you won't get spammed. And try to master lolstab.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Molly on August 05, 2014, 08:37:18 am
You don't suck - you're already one of the cool kids for playing this!  8-)
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Teeth on August 05, 2014, 10:14:47 am
Quote from: Soulreaver on August 05, 2014, 06:29:09 am
1) use a lot of athletics as archer, crossbow, horse archer, thrower etc, if an enemy comes close, just run
2)become a shielder with 5-6-7 shield skill (still shield or another heavy), just hold it till your enemy is not tired to hit and run backwards, then attack with some weapons like
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
, try to learn to spam
3) dont use your current build
4) use plate armors and go for 33/6, swing your sword right and left killing every one, as a newcomer you can try to find some sponsors help
(click to show/hide)
Pretty bad advice all around.

So you are using a spear with a shield then I gather? It's a very viable playstyle, but fairly tricky when you don't have teammates to support you. Classes that are much more versatile and usable in any scenario are 1h shield and polearm without shield. You might want to try some of those to get a taste of non support class combat. A solid starter build would be 21/18 for both, though perhaps 18/18 as a shielder to get more shield skill and IF. These numbers mean the Strength and Agi values which you should have at level 30.

If you decide to stick with polearm + shield you should probably also go for 21/18 or 18/18. I would recommend using the war spear, it is versatile and quite easy to use. Start your attack on the side of your target and drag it into him, to prevent glancing when he is quite close to you. Also, make sure you click attack very quickly after you blocked, otherwise you leave room for opponents to spam you. Oh and for the sucking right now, you are low level, your stats are quite bad. Just build towards a 15/15 build for now and once you have that you can probably somewhat compete and start getting a kill here and there.

Whatever class you end up with, I do recommend biting the bullet and to start practicing manual blocking. Best way to do this is to launch Native, and go to the tutorial. Somewhere in the area are bots called Novice or Veteran trainers. Put combat speed to slowest in options and do sparring practice with them. Try to block their attacks. If you get 10 succesful blocks in a row, put up the combat speed. This is the quickest way to develop some basic muscle memory for defending yourself and it will greatly increase your success and fun at the game. You should train at least up unto normal, but going to faster and maybe fastest eventually will just make you a quicker and better blocker. As you start blocking better, try to practice it while moving around as well. If you start having trouble again, but the speed down.

Oh and for gear you should probably stick to about 30k total gear cost, if you have about 30k as a buffer for rough times, this should ensure you make some money in the long run.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Teeth on August 05, 2014, 10:58:57 am
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on August 05, 2014, 10:42:54 am
Playing a hoplite needs a higher level build to become effective. Give any of these jokers your current level, build and class and they would suck.
Is that a challenge?
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Phew on August 05, 2014, 03:07:05 pm
What polearm are you using? I would recommend the Ashwood Pike, it's a specialized spear just for hoplites.

At the beginning of every round, find the best infantry player on your team and just follow them around and poke people they are fighting (but don't teamwound them). Even the best hoplites don't do well in 1v1, but they are deadly in a team.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Zorak on August 05, 2014, 03:55:31 pm
Sperg out a strength crutch build until you learn how to block.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Verore on August 05, 2014, 04:00:27 pm
What kind of settings do you suggest using to practice blocking? I currently set blocking direction to mouse movement and most of the time in third person I keep blocking in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Switchtense on August 05, 2014, 04:42:26 pm
Heskey, once I have my proper internet line set up I will do well with that build :D And if I manage to I want at least 5k gold as compensation =D

Anyway.

The best advice anyone could ever give you is this:
(click to show/hide)

Just keep playing. It will be frustrating to constantly die, but you will quickly see yourself improving.

Play without a shield to get better at blocking manually as well.

At some point you will realise that with each day you will do a lot better.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Grumbs on August 05, 2014, 05:58:18 pm
As people have said, you need to level up some more. You need at least 6 in PS and preferably 6 in Athletics too.

As a hoplite your role is to force people to downblock when they need to side or up block. Do that by staying near team mates and try to time your stab with a team mates swings. You are also good at stopping horses (but not really that good at killing them). Aim at the head of the horse and the cav will stop. Then try to kill the horse by aiming away from the block

The shield makes it a bit easier to have a presence in the team fight when you can't manually block, but you should learn to do that as well. Best thing you can do in battle is to play defensively and don't take risks. The longer you survive while having some kind of impact on the battle the better. Always look for ganks (when you have more team mates than the enemy), switch targets if theres an easier kill and always run away if you're outnumbered and regroup. Learn to use V to nudge if someone is trying to 1v1 you and then get away to team mates

Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Vengt037 on August 05, 2014, 06:16:39 pm
As a polearm shielder (we call them hoplites), you are most effective when supporting your teammates. Stick with them! You can't duel anybody so don't try to be a hero. Look at the player on your team with the highest score after a few rounds. If that person is infantry, follow them around and try to interrupt the attacks of anyone who attacks them. Probably the best thing you can do is stop cav w/ your polearm! In C-RPG, polearm attacks will stop a charging horse dead in its tracks, no matter how high level the cav is and how low a level you are. Even at your currently low level, you can make a huge impact on a battle if you play intelligently.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Penitent on August 05, 2014, 08:16:04 pm
You have a ton of great advice here already.  Stick by teamies and play as a support...poking the enemy in the face or the butt, whichever presents itself.  Learn to stab in the head it helps a lot.

Once you get to lv 27-30, you will be more flushed out.  Depending on how much you play and how much "training" you get from clan mates, you will probably have to retire a few times before you are good enough to feel competitive skill-wise.  That is because unlike many games, equipment and level don't really make a good player.  It's your actual fighting skills that do.  That's why it's one of the best games/mods out there.  As long as you have solid equipment and a decent build, it will be your practice and fighting skill that makes the difference.  There are tons of great gear and builds.  Time will make the best warrior.

The Cuir Boulli, and other armors in that weight/armor range are very well rounded and a good choice.  Stick with your teamies, keep practicing, and stab in the face!
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on August 05, 2014, 08:24:18 pm
Personally I wouldn't recommend playing hoplite as a beginner because it is one of the harder playstyles, similar like 2d polearms (2 Directional, you can only thrust and and overhead). Of course you can be good support early on, but once you are alone it will be no fun unless you are a natural talent.

Of course that varies from person to person but I would also not recommend starting with a shield in general. People say it is easier but IMO you get a much better feeling for when to attack and block if you learn it without a shield and then go on from that and become a good shielder if you like. New players starting with shield tend to always release block exactly in the wrong moment and getting spammed more often.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Varadin on August 05, 2014, 09:06:19 pm
Join Grey Order , and i will teach you a secret way to be best like me    8-)
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Verore on August 05, 2014, 09:21:13 pm
Except I'm from NA . EU servers give me ~120 ping which gives noticeable delays
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Qoray on August 05, 2014, 09:23:44 pm
get a 2h and 24/15 build with flamberge and longsword and u'll be fine
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Hydro on August 05, 2014, 10:30:34 pm
In my experience fastest way to improve is the following:
First start of practicing on the native client on a duel server vs. bots. This is the fastest way to get the blocking and attacking down. Just stand still and try to block all the hits of the bots. When you can do this, start moving while doing it. Then start swinging back.
Once you can do this, go on the duelling server and start practicing vs. real players, it will be hard but if you keep at it you'll improve fast.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Penitent on August 05, 2014, 10:46:39 pm
Quote from: Hydro on August 05, 2014, 10:30:34 pm
In my experience fastest way to improve is the following:
First start of practicing on the native client on a duel server vs. bots. This is the fastest way to get the blocking and attacking down. Just stand still and try to block all the hits of the bots. When you can do this, start moving while doing it. Then start swinging back.
Once you can do this, go on the duelling server and start practicing vs. real players, it will be hard but if you keep at it you'll improve fast.

I forgot about this.  This actually helped me the most when I first began playing.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on August 06, 2014, 04:02:25 am
As I always say on these threads, if you're playing NA_1 or EU_1, after you die, try to restrain yourself from going and actually having fun watching silly shit on youtube, pleasuring yourself, or enjoying some social network. Watch an experienced player that you think kicks ass, and imitate them. Pretend you ARE them. I didn't go on any sort of native server or do anything like that. I made friends with good players and imitated them; perhaps sometimes dueling with them to improve. I'm not saying that is the superior method of improving, but it is what I did. I feel that it worked well for me. I don't dig fighting AI/bots so much, so I took another route.

Just consider it.
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Patoson on August 06, 2014, 04:41:56 am
If by "after 30 hours of single player" you mean you bought the game before that, then it's natural. The game is a bit hard to learn and takes some time, but don't worry; you'll get there, just like we all have.

My suggestion is never touch the Respec button and, even if you don't like your build, just keep going until level 31 and then retire. This mod is all about heirloomed items and levelling up, and, the higher your generation (it's 1 when you start), the faster you will level up. So, at the beginning, it's better to wait until retirement and then you can change your build since you start from level 1 all over again, while getting generation and heirloom points.

You should play DTV (Defend The Virgin), since it's coop (players vs bots), and it's generally easier than fighting other players (because the majority here are "veterans"), and fun too!
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Life on August 06, 2014, 06:19:14 am
Here ya go, buddy!  :mrgreen:
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/h0w-to-b3-g00d-w1th-free-downl0ad/
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Screaming Idiot on August 06, 2014, 08:08:46 am
Go for one of the bastard weapons (Bastard Sword, Heavy Bastard Sword, and Longsword) for your first gen. These swords are extremely versatile, reliable, and efficient regarding most situations. Fast but strong, long but not too much. Don't listen too much to other vets raging about them ('cause at this point they've seen enough of it) as you can greatly improve all aspects of your abilities (footwork, feinting, dueling, team support, etc) with the bastard weapons as they shine on every one of said aspects.

Singleplayer Native isn't very good for learning the ropes of the complex combat systems of cRPG due to the fact that your character can become OP very easily and that usually there are a few hundred troops and one or two OP shields/super fast horses/masterwork armor/low damage settings protecting you from any significant harm (or at all).
Also, look at some of the build threads so you know how to min/max your stats.

Two things stand in your path to success: The obstacles before you, or your will to fight. Which one will fall first?
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Penitent on August 06, 2014, 03:58:53 pm
Oooo, I forgot about another great tip that helped me when I first started.  I can't find the original post, but it was quite long.

Basically, combat kind of goes in "turns."  If someone attacks you, you block.  Then it's your "turn" to strike.  If you attack and they block you, it's their turn, so prepare to block.  If you hit them, you can swing again.

HOWEVER, if you have good footwork, a very fast/slow weapon, a very long/short weapon, use kicks or nudges -- you can "skip" a "turn" and either strike again or be struck.

As a most basic principle though, thinking of it this way helped my combat skills a lot.  I can start thinking like:
"Ok, I blocked his attack, it's pretty safe to swing now." or "He blocked me, but I moved around to the side of him so I can attack again and spam him."

Good luck!
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Teeth on August 06, 2014, 06:03:54 pm
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on August 05, 2014, 12:02:05 pm
Lvl 17, 13/9 hoplite day on EU1 or 2 without any looms or clan banner. You may not level up during this day (well you cant stop lvling, but you cant spend any wpf, skill or attribute points beyond level 17) and must take screens of your position on the scoreboard after every round with approximate time.

I'm sure someone will have the patience to review this and then inform us if you have passed your challenge.
I just rolled STF and just picked the same build for convenience. Played two full consecutive maps on siege this afternoon and took a screen of every round, mostly only after the round ended to the teams have gotten switched around usually. Terrible session circumstances wise, but relative to my teammates I think I did alright. On the defending team it is easy as pie, against a stack where most of the players have 65+ body armour it's pretty hard.

Build
(click to show/hide)

Gear, all unloomed
(click to show/hide)

First map

(click to show/hide)

Second map
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Teeth on August 06, 2014, 08:04:26 pm
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on August 06, 2014, 06:35:50 pm
Taking you at your word that nothing changed between map 1 and map 2 consider me impressed. Map 2 was more the sorts of results i was expecting, if map 1 was the same build and gear i am very impressed by that K/D. Now do it on EU1 :D
Tssk K/D, map 2 is a better performance than map 1. Support polearming is all about the points. It's just that attacking sucks as a hoplite, even if you are level 35. Defending team allows you to play careful and nearly always surrounded by teammates, attacking means you have to charge through doors or up ladders with 4 defenders on the other side. Playing Siege as a level 17 hoplite is fun, but playing battle is fairly masochistic, can't keep up with all the circling.


Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Penitent on August 06, 2014, 08:08:20 pm
Quote from: Teeth on August 06, 2014, 08:04:26 pm
Playing Siege as a level 17 hoplite is fun, but playing battle is fairly masochistic

This is a general Crpg truism for all to know.

OH SNAP I JUST WENT THERE
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Verore on August 07, 2014, 01:04:07 am
Doing pretty well now. I just have to remember to stick with my team more .

@Screaming Idiot : I can't PM yet, I assume I need some more posts before that. Do you have skype, ts3 or something so we can coordinate times?
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Screaming Idiot on August 07, 2014, 01:16:36 am
Quote from: Verore on August 07, 2014, 01:04:07 am
Doing pretty well now. I just have to remember to stick with my team more .

@Screaming Idiot : I can't PM yet, I assume I need some more posts before that. Do you have skype, ts3 or something so we can coordinate times?

Contact me through Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198028277262/).  :)
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Verore on August 07, 2014, 04:26:31 am
added ya
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Prpavi on August 07, 2014, 11:23:56 am
Grab a bow, insta hero!
Title: Re: New to the mod, how do I not suck?
Post by: Riddaren on August 07, 2014, 08:18:14 pm
A few tips.

Economy:
- Don't respec your main character. Use alts. You want to retire as soon as possible up until the gen XP bonus limit of gen 16(?).
By then you will also have 15 loompoints which equals to 5-6 +3 items if bought on the marketplace.
- Don't forget to continously trade on the marketplace. It will (or can) give you a good extra income.
- Save money by not buying any gear directly from the shop. Instead use the marketplace or auction house to get items for lower prices.
Alternatively you could join a clan (with each character) and borrow items from the armoury.
Note: Krems, (click my banner) lends out all items for free.

Leveling beyond 30/31:
- When you have reached the gen xp bonus you should plan for a build at 31,32,33,34 and 35 and never again retire that character, unless you care for a silly veteran/master/grandmaster title (I'm a grandmaster).

Make use of alternative (extra) characters:
- You can make an alt for each class (or atleast for the ones you really want to play) instead of using STF's. You will not regret it in the long run.

Gameplay:
- When first joining any server, press "-" (minus) to zoom out. It will make you a much better player.
- Increase the mouse sensitivity until you can "easily" make a 360 between each block of an incoming attack.
- Make use of the "Look behind" button.
- Learn to master kicks. You will never become a top player if you don't. I speak from personal experience (and I still can't kick).