cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kampfkarotte on August 01, 2014, 08:25:43 pm
-
The last time i played siege, following often happened to me: I knew my team will lose a round but I was also sure that I will get valour cause I had an awesome round and helped my team a lot. But then I get disappointed: I get no valour and lose my multi. It's not rare that nobody of about 50 players gets valour in a round, where before they changed it would have been 4 or 5 players.
Maybe they made valour harder to encourage people to focus more on defending/capturing flag (in siege) or playing in a team,
but in my opinion its especially the better and experienced players who help their team more and they need to be rewarded for that.
So my claim is: Reverse the valour reduction and make it as it always was.
-
If you didn't get valour, it simply means you were not the only one who had an awesome round and helped your team a lot.
Today valour works better than anytime before, IMO. No need to change anything.
-
If you didn't get valour, it simply means you were not the only one who had an awesome round and helped your team a lot.
Today valour works better than anytime before, IMO. No need to change anything.
One time I had 40 points and the rest of my team had 2 points and I didn't get valour
-
One time I had 40 points and the rest of my team had 2 points and I didn't get valour
Really?
1) Was it after the latest valour change in one of the patches?
2) Did you get all 40 points in one round?
3) Are you sure you are not exagerrating?
-
Really?
1) Was it after the latest valour change in one of the patches?
2) Did you get all 40 points in one round?
3) Are you sure you are not exagerrating?
1) I'm not sure it was like a month ago
2) Yes
3) Yes
-
To get valor you need to get more points in the round than the average of your team by a long shot. Sometimes that is 10 points because you killed two people and everyone else has 0, sometimes you need over 100 points because people actually did their job and scored.
It pretty much comes down to this: Ignore the existence of valor. If you do well and get it, good. If not, oh well. If you are doing as good as you think you are, you'll get your 5x soon enough.
-
If there are few enough people on your team, you may need a much higher score than you think, since your own score is added to the average.
Siege in general is quite tough to get valour.
-
Sometimes you get 50 points on one round and no one gets valour for some reason.
-
Check the other thread about siege valor started by Phew. Basically the same thing is stated, but with more insight.
-
I fixed a bug with valour about a week ago that should solve the issue of people not getting valour with 40 points when the rest of their team gets very little. That being said, this won't change the OPs concerns. The problem is the siege gamemode itself (or alternatively, you could look at it as the valour requirements being the issue. Really it's the same thing, just two different perspectives though.) Because people can respawn, it's much more forgiving. Players are easily capable of getting 20 or 30 points in a singe round, whereas in battle, the average score per team tends to fall somewhere between 5 and 10. This just makes it that much more difficult to get valour.
Few people getting valour on Siege is nothing new, the month or two where people were able to get it 3-5 players as a time on siege, was an irregularity that wasn't exactly intended.
I've thought about changing the valour requirements for siege, but I concluded that for the most part, due to not having score rewards for objectives (which were previously deemed to be a poor idea), valour conflicts with core mechanics that make siege what it is. To be honest, I'd rather remove valour if we're not to grant score for objectives (which is hard to do.) Valour is mostly harmless though, so there's no point really in removing it from siege.
-
Well sir Tydeus, can you implement the points for objectives such as gates and bridges? That almost seems like it would allow people doing the right thing to earn valzor.
-
is that something else you "fixed" and we havent seen in a patch yet?
its not fixed till it drops get on it
-
Well sir Tydeus, can you implement the points for objectives such as gates and bridges? That almost seems like it would allow people doing the right thing to earn valzor.
I've thought about changing the valour requirements for siege, but I concluded that for the most part, due to not having score rewards for objectives (which were previously deemed to be a poor idea), valour conflicts with core mechanics that make siege what it is.
You're expanding the conversation with that request. Expanding it to one that we've actually already had in the past where thousands of words were exchanged on the subject. I created a score rework thread December 17, 2013, specifically to discuss things like this. The thread was open to any administrator as well as anyone with the Beta Tester forum rank. What we have now, is essentially the result of that thread.
http://forum.melee.org/closed-beta-testing/score-rework/60/ (http://forum.melee.org/closed-beta-testing/score-rework/60/)
-
First round i had like 50 points and i didn't get valour and some guy with 40 and less kills did.It wasn't 2-3 days b4.I think it isn't working as it was suppose to work.
-
First round i had like 50 points and i didn't get valour and some guy with 40 and less kills did.It wasn't 2-3 days b4.I think it isn't working as it was suppose to work.
But were you on the same team?
-
Valour is mostly harmless though, so there's no point really in removing it from siege.
Except that it discourages doing objectives and encourages spawnraping. The latter is very common on EU2 these days.
-
make valour as a personal achievement,the average score lets say will based on last ~10h of playing and each time you makin 3x your average score you get valour, each time you retire/respec the avg score is nullifying
so even new players will be able to get
-
The valour system works flawlessly in my experience, to the point that I can take a look at the scoreboard and guesstimate if I will get valour and mostly be correct. Seperated averages for teams is a godsend. Since I play siege for the frantic melee fights, I often disregard objectives completely and go wherever most of the fighting is without really bothering to think about objectives. Valour enables me to do this as my focus on fighting gets me valour quite reliably, even if my team loses quickly, so I wouldn't say valour doesn't hurt siege.
-
My old request still stands, even today with valour working better:
Valour ONLY for the loosing team.
-
Except that it discourages doing objectives and encourages spawnraping. The latter is very common on EU2 these days.
Indeed, "mostly" harmless was what I said.
Valour ONLY for the loosing team.
That still won't change anything. As far as negative impacts go, you could argue that it would have less of a negative impact for your team (where losing team only and the current system would both have greater negative impacts), were valour restricted to the winning team. This is because you would no longer be able to use valour as a failsafe. If all you wanted to do is pretend siege was TDM, you would have to do so, knowing that when your team lost, you'd have no chance of sustaining your multiplier.
-
Except that it discourages doing objectives and encourages spawnraping. The latter is very common on EU2 these days.
Oh comeon, have a little fun. Spawnraping is quite a good way of taking the attention of a lot of players, which leaves less to attack your castle. This especially weakens the usually strong first wave.
-
I was saying that in general.
Valour for the winning team is nonsense. In Battle, on Siege, on DTV, everywhere.
-
I was saying that in general.
Valour for the winning team is nonsense. In Battle, on Siege, on DTV, everywhere.
Only because you want valour to be something other than what it's currently intended to be. I realize what I'm about to say might seem a bit hard to understand, but please try to utilize your imagination as best you can.
Many people want one of two things when they talk about a new xp system, they either want to return to the old, proximity/kill based xp system, or they want a cross between the passive(multiplier) system, and the old system. Think about how one achieves valour currently, which is based solely on scores. Score is accumulated by damaging others(with a kill bonus amounting to 1/3 to 1/2 the total player's worth), or being within the appropriate proximity of such. In a sense, when you think about it like this, you can actually consider valour, if both teams are able to get it, as being a cross between the mutli system, and the old xp system. Of course, it's not an even compromise, it certainly relies heavier on the multi system than the old xp system. Nevertheless, the comparison can (and should) be made.
From this point of view one could easily argue in favor of making valour easier to achieve, but valour is a bit too effective at increasing one's average xp/gold amount to do this, currently.
-
The valour system works flawlessly in my experience, to the point that I can take a look at the scoreboard and guesstimate if I will get valour and mostly be correct. Seperated averages for teams is a godsend. Since I play siege for the frantic melee fights, I often disregard objectives completely and go wherever most of the fighting is without really bothering to think about objectives. Valour enables me to do this as my focus on fighting gets me valour quite reliably, even if my team loses quickly, so I wouldn't say valour doesn't hurt siege.
the difference is the amount of players in siege, comparing NA2 and EU2. Most of NA is scared of siege or regards it as a "noob" place. I don't think it helps that siege is hard to keep a multi on unless its an easy defense or attack castle.
-
People say that valour is bugged atm, but I'm not sure if it's a bug or feature. This "bug" would last for several weeks now without any fixes..
I regular see people raging that they don't get valour (including me) and i have lost over 70k now, cause I can only afford playing cav with valour.
No matter if it's a bug or not I would be very glad if that got fixed soon.
-
I fixed a bug with valour about a week ago that should solve the issue of people not getting valour with 40 points when the rest of their team gets very little. That being said, this won't change the OPs concerns. The problem is the siege gamemode itself (or alternatively, you could look at it as the valour requirements being the issue. Really it's the same thing, just two different perspectives though.) Because people can respawn, it's much more forgiving. Players are easily capable of getting 20 or 30 points in a singe round, whereas in battle, the average score per team tends to fall somewhere between 5 and 10. This just makes it that much more difficult to get valour.
Few people getting valour on Siege is nothing new, the month or two where people were able to get it 3-5 players as a time on siege, was an irregularity that wasn't exactly intended.
I've thought about changing the valour requirements for siege, but I concluded that for the most part, due to not having score rewards for objectives (which were previously deemed to be a poor idea), valour conflicts with core mechanics that make siege what it is. To be honest, I'd rather remove valour if we're not to grant score for objectives (which is hard to do.) Valour is mostly harmless though, so there's no point really in removing it from siege.
As i've said before; valour does not belong on siege. on siege it causes players to care less about actually defending or attacking the objective, which is what siege is about.
-
I'm not 100% sure, but appareantly they said there's a bug where the team on the right side, doesn't get valour even if they "should" have been given it.
At least, currently, this is still so in battle. Not sure about siege.
-
If you didn't get valour, it simply means you were not the only one who had an awesome round and helped your team a lot.
Today valour works better than anytime before, IMO. No need to change anything.
i thought it doesnt work correct for the right or left team (dont remember which one exactly)
-
i thought it doesnt work correct for the right or left team (dont remember which one exactly)
I posted that before the valour got bugged (or before I learned that it was bugged).
-
Can make 10 kills a round / 80 points ~~ , if im in second team, im fucked. ( eu 1 )
-
I posted that before the valour got bugged (or before I learned that it was bugged).
Well that's why we had our misunderstanding. I started this thread when it was already bugged..
And I'm not only talking about siege, also valour in battle doesn't work as it used to.
-
+1
On siege a lone player can win or lose the round for their team far better than on battle. Valor is to reward the exceptional efforts of players which makes sense in battle - as killing the other team is the objective, if you kill lots but your team fails then it's fair that you get valour. In siege the reward for your efforts should be taking, or defending the flag whether it's by charging in head-first, sneaking in, or holding the gatehouse.
There are lots of ways to help your team in siege, your reward is if it works and you win, in battle the only way to help is to fight.
True true, I hate it when pro players get rewarded for kill farming whilst not even being close to the flag, theyre ussually just picking up lone stragglers around the castles edges without even coming near the clusterfucks and bottlenecks that would actually help the team defend or breakthrough. They do all this in the hope of getting valour and saving their own multiplier, while giving a big middlefinger to their teammates.
The difference between battle and siege is, as you implied, the completely different style of play. Siege in fact has a set objective to capture or defend, whilst battle is in a way just charging eachother, there is no objective one can work towards other then do well, and by doing well I mean killing the enemy players. In the battle environment Valour has its place and encourages the players to do even better. Whilst on siege it only detracts from the objective and allows players to go Rambo and get rewarded for it, whilst the rest of the team is outnumbered and ran over.
Naturally this doesnt happen all the time, but it does happen and it simply doesn't make sense to reward solo play effort whilst the actual team get penalized for it.
-
True true, I hate it when pro players get rewarded for kill farming whilst not even being close to the flag, theyre ussually just picking up lone stragglers around the castles edges without even coming near the clusterfucks and bottlenecks that would actually help the team defend or breakthrough. They do all this in the hope of getting valour and saving their own multiplier, while giving a big middlefinger to their teammates.
You don't always feel like carrying your team, especially since the bottom half of your entire team is not really doing much, other than semi-leeching. Ontop of that it's not really fun having the pressure of carrying an entire team every single round. I want to have fun while playing, and being forced into doing that every single round is not really a joy, because i know my team will lose if i don't. So sometimes you change it and just play like you want, finding small skirmishes.
PS: Just being honest.
Edit: Valour does encourage people to play contrary to what is actually needed, in some cases, but it's also nice to have, since you do have to put in a lot of work to get it. Furthermore, if you kill a ton of people, you still stop them from actually making it to the flag and being a threat.
-
You don't always feel like carrying your team, especially since the bottom half of your entire team is not really doing much, other than semi-leeching. Ontop of that it's not really fun having the pressure of carrying an entire team every single round. I want to have fun while playing, and being forced into doing that every single round is not really a joy, because i know my team will lose if i don't. So sometimes you change it and just play like you want, finding small skirmishes.
That is entirely besides the point! My point is that someone gets rewarded for a playstyle that is a penalty for the rest of the team. Not about wether not not you "feel like carrying".
Neither is it about fun in this matter, even without valour you can skirmish around, but you will rewarded for your entire teams effort, not your solo hunting along the maps edges. You are in no way being forced to defend or attack when valour would be removed.
The only thing that would change is that the individual skirmishing player wont be rewarded for being detrimental to the overal performance of the team. Valour wont safe your ass when you are picking up noobs on the castle walls without paying attention to your objective.
Ontop of that it's not really fun having the pressure of carrying an entire team every single round
this comment is silly - it isnt about the individual wants and needs of a player, it is in this case about the game mose Siege and some systems that are in place that are, imo, detrimental to the overall approach that players take to the gamemode with the current system that is in place.
Since when do you carry on siege? :wink:
-
I like the valor system, when it is not bugged out... Please release the patch so we can get valor regularly again.
-
FIX THIS BULLSHIT
I'M TIRED OF CARRYING MY SHIT TEAM AND NOT GETTING REWARDED :evil:
-
Valor on siege is broken, 350 points and still no valor, also valor is broken for all second team. (In battle mode as well).
also don't forget you get more repairs in siege than in battle.
battle is always ruined by Cav, its natural people would like to have some fun in siege
-
DEV LOGIC : HA AND 1H CAV OP, LETS NERF VALOR. GG WP BB
-
Well atm, u should just add back the old one, and give u time to make something else.
It's actually very frustrating to be on the right ( SIDE ! fu :D ) team nowadays.
-
I posted that before the valour got bugged (or before I learned that it was bugged).
ok :D
slowpoke :mrgreen:
-
DEV LOGIC : HA AND 1H CAV OP, LETS NERF VALOR. GG WP BB
they didn't nerf it. just broke. like everything they trying to change lelelele
-
Tydeus said its fixed, but we will need to wait chadz to patch crpg.