cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 12:24:38 am

Title: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 12:24:38 am
an arrow is supposed to hurt, not tickle you to death.

Hello and welcome to my archery overhaul.

The main focus of my changes to archery will be on reducing the spam it currently is.

I think archery at the moment is far too arcadey to fit in with the other mechanics, I think that with the changes I will suggest it will become more realistic and possibly more punchy. Atleast more punchy then the current style of shooting dozens of weak arrows around.

I did integrate others ideas into my proposal, I will credit them as best as I can but I am not going to search the entire forum for a quote. :P

Allright, the first thing that I think needs to change is the amount of arrows archers can spam around, it just feels like throwing snowballs around in the hope of possibly hitting some sort kung-fu-insta-KO weakspot.

Now, this could come in the form of a simple quiver size reduction, but I think carrying two quivers is gay as fuck, so I am proposing a slight quiver increase, something around an increase of 3 sounds good to me. But wait, don't you archers get excited now! Power draw >4 bows will be 3 slots! Power draw 3 and below will be 2 slots.

Stole the three slot idea from Konrax: http://forum.melee.org/game-balance-discussion/ideas-for-fixing-range/

Now, you might think this will end up in major tatar spam, as if that isnt the case atm, but I also suggest that bows will have arrow limitations. Say the tatar bow can not use the top tier arrows, bodkin & (barbed?). The dev team can balance this out theirselves, I just think tatar bows shouldnt have the armor piercing abilities they currently have.

Now this will cause some havoc here and there, but wait, I think this is the perfect way to make archers more realistic and more rewarding. This will hapoen in the form of a MAJOR FUCKING damage increase, and by major I mean fucking rediculous wtf is this for shit damage increase. But balanced, ofcourse, and not TOO much.

Also, bodkins will be 0 slot and the quiver will only hold 5 arrows.

I know, more lol wtf is this. But listen, this is to simulate plate armor. Bows, including the longbow, will only have cut damage.

Wy do I think this will work? Because archers will have a reduced quiver, this means they wont just spam shields with their arrows, this is because it is far more likely for them to run out of arrows, they will be forced to think about how much arrows they have left and how they want to use them, so shooting shields is just a waste. They will FINALLY have to think before shooting.

Bodkins will be limited, you will only have a few of them - again, more thinking before you act and pew pew.

And ofcourse missile speed eduction for all lower tier bows, again the arcade shit is too gay.

I would make a tl;dr, but I cant be arsed to tap more.

Ps: also weight should cause more of a penalty to wpf.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 09:55:37 pm
An example of gear load out with both foot archers and HA in mind.


Foot archer, Rus or Longbow.

Code: [Select]
Longbow/Rusbow - 3 slots
Tatar arrows(+3, ammo 24) - 1 slot
Melee weapon - 0 slot
Bag of bodkins(+3, ammo 8) - 0 slot (for each rank the bow will get one extra arrow)

Total ammo: 32 arrows

All four equipment slots are in use.

Horse archer. (Will take the 2 slot bow, because of more total ammo.)

Code: [Select]
Tatar bow - 2 slots
Barbed Arrows (x2)(+3, ammo 29(x2)) - 2 slots
Melee weapon - 0 slot

Total ammo - 58


All four equipment slots are in use.

As you can see the foot archer will still have 32 arrows in total - this is MORE THEN ENOUGH.

The HA will still have either 58 or 66 arrows, MORE then enough. Imo this could be even less, around 45/50 would be better, its still a hell of alot of arrows.

if HA's want to have more arrows over effective arrows they take the Tatar bow, if they want damage and armor piercing they can take the Horn bow - as it allows for bodkins to be used.

The horn bow however will be 3 slots - read OP.

Horn bow HA (HA with armor piercing capabilities)

Code: [Select]
Horn Bow - 3 slots
Tatar arrows/Barbed arrows (+3, ammo 24/27) - 1 slot
Melee weapon - 0 slot
Bag of bodkins(+3, ammo 8) - 0 slot

Total ammo - (tatarbodkin 32) or (barbedbodkin 35)



Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: San on July 12, 2014, 10:00:16 pm
What damages are you thinking of?
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 10:15:41 pm
What damages are you thinking of?

To be honest I am kind of in the dark on this one, as I dont know exactly what a damage increase will actually cause in practice.

Though a damage increase of around 5-10% could work. Possibly even more 10 - 20%.

It is however VERY important to keep in mind that bodkins will be situational and that the majority of arrows will be cut damage. Thus heavy armor will infact negate most of the damage, and light armor will feel the damage increase the most.

A change like this ( increased cut damage) will call for a buff to light horses, though. It is for me really difficult to oversee, I can to a certain extent, what the exact effects will be.


Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 12, 2014, 10:39:24 pm
The damage increase would have to be immense.
It happens quite often that I shoot someone (Bodkins, MW Rus and 6PD, 170wpf) and he does not die, even after the 4th arrow.

If you get only 10 arrows in total (I have 30 now) you would have to be able to kill everything in 2 shots or less. Otherwise it renders archery useless since nobody really bothers protecting archers from melee.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 10:41:16 pm
Have you read my 2nd post, Switch?

I actually used the original quiver sizes, exept for the bodkins. And changed the bow slot requirements.

Keep in mind that suggestions will never be perfect in the first try, they need some finetuning.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 12, 2014, 10:48:22 pm
Yes. You said ~10% up to 20%.

I do not know how that increase would show ingame. That is why I put an emphasis on how much more damage they would have to deal :D


But still, as I already mentioned, people will complain about archery even more. Because they don't care how much damage the arrows do that fly into the middle of nowhere.

But when they get hit (and they WILL get hit, even with 5 arrows per quiver) then they will whine about being killed by one arrow. Or if not dead then they will whine about having lost 80% of hp to one arrow.


Forcing people to use cut arrows would be the same for archery as right now. You get many arrows (even more than currently with bodkins) and due to the damage buff the damage of cut arrows would be effectively the same as with bodkins now. (Or maybe even more)
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 10:50:58 pm
You should really re-read the amount of arrows a quiver holds, the 10-20% is my third post..

This is the post I was talking about, 10 arrows, even 20, per quiver is far too less. :P

Allthough I do think that lower tier arrows, those that are combined with lower tier bows(2 slots) could have their quiver size reduced.


An example of gear load out with both foot archers and HA in mind.


Foot archer, Rus or Longbow.

Code: [Select]
Longbow/Rusbow - 3 slots
Tatar arrows(+3, ammo 24) - 1 slot
Melee weapon - 0 slot
Bag of bodkins(+3, ammo 8) - 0 slot (for each rank the bow will get one extra arrow)

Total ammo: 32 arrows

All four equipment slots are in use.

Horse archer. (Will take the 2 slot bow, because of more total ammo.)

Code: [Select]
Tatar bow - 2 slots
Barbed Arrows (x2)(+3, ammo 27(x2)) - 2 slots
Melee weapon - 0 slot

Total ammo - 54


All four equipment slots are in use.

As you can see the foot archer will still have 32 arrows in total - this is MORE THEN ENOUGH.

The HA will still have either 54 or 66 arrows, MORE then enough. Imo this could be even less, around 45/50 would be better, its still a hell of alot of arrows.

if HA's want to have more arrows over effective arrows they take the Tatar bow, if they want damage and armor piercing they can take the Horn bow - as it allows for bodkins to be used.

The horn bow however will be 3 slots - read OP.

Horn bow HA (HA with armor piercing capabilities)

Code: [Select]
Horn Bow - 3 slots
Tatar arrows/Barbed arrows (+3, ammo 24/27) - 1 slot
Melee weapon - 0 slot
Bag of bodkins(+3, ammo 8) - 0 slot

Total ammo - (tatarbodkin 32) or (barbedbodkin 35)




Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 11:06:57 pm
Also keep in mind that 2 slot bows can only use arrows up to Barbed, sure they do infact have more arrows but they will be significantly weaker.

Strong arrows and armor piercing will be strictly for foot archers, or HA's will have to prioritize damage over quiver size.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 12, 2014, 11:09:23 pm
Bag of bodkins(+3, ammo 8)

So a MW Bodkin quiver holds 8 arrows. I assume a +0 quiver holds 5 arrows.

So you pack 2 Bodkins, that is 10 arrows.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 11:13:10 pm
So a MW Bodkin quiver holds 8 arrows. I assume a +0 quiver holds 5 arrows.

So you pack 2 Bodkins, that is 10 arrows.

Wy in the world would you pack 2 bodkins?

The point is to resemble plate armor better, you see a heavy armor wearer and you switch to your bodkins.

Otherwise you will mostly shoot cut arrows, these will rceive a large buff. Bodkins dont need a buff - they are strong enough and will more or less stay the same.

Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 12, 2014, 11:26:52 pm
Wy in the world would you pack 2 bodkins?

The point is to resemble plate armor better, you see a heavy armor wearer and you switch to your bodkins.

Otherwise you will mostly shoot cut arrows, these will rceive a large buff. Bodkins dont need a buff - they are strong enough and will more or less stay the same.

So shooting with Bodkins will be the same as now?

Have you not read my post now? Sometimes I need like 4 arrows for someone in med gear. For a tincan like 6 arrows.

And I am supposed to have even less of that ammo that is supposed to do the most damage against armour?

So basically you want to be unharmed by archers if you wear med gear or heavier.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 11:33:44 pm
So shooting with Bodkins will be the same as now?

Have you not read my post now? Sometimes I need like 4 arrows for someone in med gear. For a tincan like 6 arrows.

And I am supposed to have even less of that ammo that is supposed to do the most damage against armour?

So basically you want to be unharmed by archers if you wear med gear or heavier.

Not at all.

Bodkins will be situational and only useable for targets with a shitload of armor. Otherwise barbed and tatar arrows will do the job. The current system where bodkins are practicly the only arrows that are effective is a broken system.

Arrows will have their place in this system, bodkins for plate crutchers, tatars for medium to medheavy armors, barbed for medium/light armors.

Heavy armor will finally have more of a meaning vs archers, instead of being entirely absolete as it is now.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 12, 2014, 11:43:23 pm
Only damage values for proposed changes - experimental stats


Top tier bows ( 3 slots) - allowed to fire bodkins & Tatars

Code: [Select]
Long bow

Speed:40
Thrust:34 cut
Missile speed:40
Accuracy:104

Rus bow

Speed:41
Thrust:30 cut
Missile speed:41
Accuracy:103

Yumi

Speed:38
Thrust:29 cut
Missile speed:38
Accuracy:103

Horn bow

Speed:44
Thrust:28 cut
Missile speed:44
Accuracy:101

Bow

Who, besides me, uses this?


Possible damage increase stats for the top tier bows. This is something I made up from the top of my head.

The damage increase will be mainly coming from the bows themselves, thus making bodkins more effective aswell. A slight increase on the bodkins can work.

Lower tier bows will get a combination of damage increase and missile speed decrease, though the damage increase will be far more significant.

God, balancing shit is hard, so much things to think of.

Possible arrow stats.
Code: [Select]
Bodkins

Length:93
Thrust:4 pierce (+2, double it is now)
Ammo:5 (-10)


Tatar

Length:89
Thrust:13 cut (+3)
Ammo:18

Barbed

Length:90
Thrust:10 cut (+3)
Ammo: 20 (-2)

Arrows

Length:88
Thrust:7 cut (+2)
Ammo:20

Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 13, 2014, 12:32:27 am
Would have to test how that damage exactly turns out to be ingame.

Guess that is up to the testers to do.

All in all a good idea, but some miscalculated change, something you didn't think of and archery is ruined.

So I guess before implementing this has to be tested excessively.


Still I think to not render Archers useless the damage Bodkins do against Tincans has to be very high. Two shotting a tincan no matter what would have to be the case really.
Because nobody gives a shit about tactics, so nobody is defending the archers from tincans. If they need 4 arrows to kill a tincan, while only having 5 bodkins, they will die for sure. (unless its someone like bagge or steevee)

Very delicate changes in general, but once all problems are sorted this could make archery more interesting for people dedicated to either learn to get good at it, or who already are good at it.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:45:47 am
Would have to test how that damage exactly turns out to be ingame.

Guess that is up to the testers to do.

All in all a good idea, but some miscalculated change, something you didn't think of and archery is ruined.

So I guess before implementing this has to be tested excessively.


Still I think to not render Archers useless the damage Bodkins do against Tincans has to be very high. Two shotting a tincan no matter what would have to be the case really.
Because nobody gives a shit about tactics, so nobody is defending the archers from tincans. If they need 4 arrows to kill a tincan, while only having 5 bodkins, they will die for sure. (unless its someone like bagge or steevee)

Very delicate changes in general, but once all problems are sorted this could make archery more interesting for people dedicated to either learn to get good at it, or who already are good at it.

Tbh, altering stats is really like trying to block whilst being blindfolded, and I really dont know how the dev teams does this and tests these changes.

I proposed the pierce damage being doubled on bodkins, but you have only 33% of the arrows you originally have, so it could possibly be upped to 5 or 6. But as you said, it is SO FUCKING HARD to predict what the exact changes will do in practice.

Quote
but some miscalculated change, something you didn't think of and archery is ruined.

100% agreed, and I am just an amateur when it comes to item balance/changes. You have no idea how many bumps you run into when changing these stats, I do doubt myself(alot), but I also think when correctly executed my idea could work and bring more depth to archery.

When correctly executed..
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:46:58 am
God, do I sound lecturing? If so, that is not my intention..,  :|
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Algarn on July 13, 2014, 12:49:49 am
Selling bodkin arrows +1 and nordic sword +2.

(click to show/hide)

EDIT : I'm loling to the longbow's damage buff, and also to the tatar arrow's buff. Destroy bodkins and make tatar arrows even more OP, which makes you 34 (unloomed)+ 13 (unloomed) = 47 damages + PD increase. Only in cRPG.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:52:52 am
^^

Actually, at +3 you will have 16 arrows.  :D
 Or 8 in one quiver, 8 arrows with massive armor piercing damage capabilities. I understand you want to kill 10 players per round, but is that reasonable?

Did you read the full thread? Or did you selectively read what you didnt like?
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 13, 2014, 12:52:59 am
Selling bodkin arrows +1 and nordic sword +2.

(click to show/hide)

That is why I said you need to buff the damage that much that you can kill anything, even a Butan, with 2 arrows max.

But another problem with that is that it makes you unable to shoot at anything further away than 10 metres. Cause its 10% of your ammo wasted.

So I guess a big accuracy buff would be needed as well. (Cause if you can only shoot at close targets you are basically playing a nerfed thrower)
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:55:46 am
Btw, switch, I replied to your post.  :)
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Algarn on July 13, 2014, 12:58:59 am
ok ... That's entirely legit, still, going with 8 arrows to war in a quiver sounds retarded, and is retarded. Also, it's at the max rank, people will have to get it for like 900k. Good, good...

I might go full retard a day, and go crossbowman like daveUKR, doing 2.5/1 as kd with a level 27 char. It never gets nerfed, so, that's cool.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:59:52 am


EDIT : I'm loling to the longbow's damage buff, and also to the tatar arrow's buff. Destroy bodkins and make tatar arrows even more OP, which makes you 34 (unloomed)+ 13 (unloomed) = 47 damages + PD increase. Only in cRPG.

But it is cut damage, and ofcourse, as ive mentioned a few times in this thread, numbers are experimental and a bit random, as I dont kniw what exactly the effect is.

ok ... That's entirely legit, still, going with 8 arrows to war in a quiver sounds retarded, and is retarded. Also, it's at the max rank, people will have to get it for like 900k. Good, good...

But practicly everyone does have +3 arrows..  :|

The idea behind my idea is is to take a bag of cut arrows for your every day targets and a bag of bodkins strictly for very high armored players.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 13, 2014, 01:01:34 am
Well, basically these changes, if implemented properly so that they won't ruin archery, basically push archers to go Legolas on the enemies one shotting the first 10 (16) people they see, then go apeshit on everybody else in melee.

Because support is not possible with these changes. The risk of either hitting a teammate killing him, or just missing the shot wasting a lot of your ammo is way too high.

Archers would be forced to get enganged in close quarter fights to make sure they hit shit rather than hoping the enemy will not dodge the arrow.

The more I think about this, the more I believe that it has too many downsides, that it would ruin archery completely.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 13, 2014, 01:06:24 am
Also huge problem: Damage of bodkins would have to be buffed by a shitload to be able to kill tincans. This renders cut arrows useless, since bodkins would just one-shot lightly armoured targets anyway.

So everybody would only use bodkins

And also, ever since I started playing archer I obviously started picking up arrows. And I can say that only about 25% of all arrows I see ingame are Masterwork. Like 5% are +1 and +2 together. The other 70% are +0.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:07:17 am
Hmm, a longbow archer can carry 32 arrows, this doesnt strike me as extremely low, the only arrows he actively needs to watch and use carefully are the bodkins. Which are situational in the way they would be implemented.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Algarn on July 13, 2014, 01:09:59 am
Joseph, don't you realize that 90% of players on EU 1 got at least 60 body armor ? (loomed gloves+armor, and often a good hp stack).

The worst is, buff tatar arrows, it's cheaper than bodkins, and almost do more damage than them already, people are simply dumb, or too poor to change arrows. Also, +13 damage would make ANY bow 1 slot deadly.

I imagine :
 7 PD archer + maxed WM + Masterwork tatar bow + tatar arrows = 24 + 13 = 37 cut damage + 56%(37 cut) + wpf's damage, which is around 1,5% per 10 wpf.

Just imagine how OP it would be, adding to this pin point accuracy, and huge missile speed.

EDIT : I play with 18 bodkins. Not less, not more. I'm still butthurt because if balancers put this in game, it won't be the last fucking archery rework.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:11:34 am
Also huge problem: Damage of bodkins would have to be buffed by a shitload to be able to kill tincans. This renders cut arrows useless, since bodkins would just one-shot lightly armoured targets anyway.


Hmm, it will eventually be wether you want punching strength or more arrows. You could use the bodkins only, but youll have such a small quiver that youll be out very fast.

In my opinion picking arrows up is silly in the first place. They should lose 1 rank once they are shot to simulate collateral damage with walls/objects. Or not being able to be picked up at all, cause theyll most likely be damaged upon impact.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:13:59 am
Joseph, don't you realize that 90% of players on EU 1 got at least 60 body armor ? (loomed gloves+armor, and often a good hp stack).

The worst is, buff tatar arrows, it's cheaper than bodkins, and almost do more damage than them already, people are simply dumb, or too poor to change arrows. Also, +13 damage would make ANY bow 1 slot deadly.

I imagine :
 7 PD archer + maxed WM + Masterwork tatar bow + tatar arrows = 24 + 13 = 37 cut damage + 56%(37 cut) + wpf's damage, which is around 1,5% per 10 wpf.

Just imagine how OP it would be, adding to this pin point accuracy, and huge missile speed.

I did say that these numbers where totally random - I have no idea what an increase of 1 damage as a stat actually has in game. I am just proposing a new system for archery.

What would your suggested stats be? I think you know alot more about the way stats work then me.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:18:40 am
What about this?

Top tier bows ( 3 slots) - allowed to fire bodkins & Tatars

Code: [Select]
Long bow

Speed:40
Thrust:32 cut (+1)
Missile speed:40
Accuracy:104

Rus bow

Speed:41
Thrust:29 cut (+1)
Missile speed:41
Accuracy:103

Yumi

Speed:38
Thrust:27 cut (+1)
Missile speed:38
Accuracy:103

Horn bow

Speed:44
Thrust:26 cut (+2)
Missile speed:44
Accuracy:101

Bow

Who, besides me, uses this?



Possible arrow stats.
Code: [Select]
Bodkins

Length:93
Thrust:4 pierce (+2, double it is now)
Ammo:5 (-10)
(0 slot)

Tatar

Length:89
Thrust:11 cut (+1)
Ammo:18

Barbed

Length:90
Thrust:9 cut (+2)
Ammo: 20 (-2)

Arrows

Length:88
Thrust:6 cut (+1)
Ammo:20

Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:26:22 am
Joseph, don't you realize that 90% of players on EU 1 got at least 60 body armor ? (loomed gloves+armor, and
I imagine :
 7 PD archer + maxed WM + Masterwork tatar bow + tatar arrows = 24 + 13 = 37 cut damage + 56%(37 cut) + wpf's damage, which is around 1,5% per 10 wpf.

Just imagine how OP it would be, adding to this pin point accuracy, and huge missile speed.


Oh wait, i understand now: tatar is a lower tier bow, it isnt allowed to use tatar or bodkin arrows in my system. (Read OP)


Quote
Now, you might think this will end up in major tatar spam, as if that isnt the case atm, but I also suggest that bows will have arrow limitations. Say the tatar bow can not use the top tier arrows, bodkin & (barbed?). The dev team can balance this out theirselves, I just think tatar bows shouldnt have the armor piercing abilities they currently have.


sorry dude, I am kind of sleeping here just had a few beers whilst laughing at brazil getting destroyed (again).

Another one in the OP that answers your question.

Quote
And ofcourse missile speed eduction for all lower tier bows, again the arcade shit is too gay.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Algarn on July 13, 2014, 01:27:19 am
1st setp nerfing the shit out of missile speed of tatar, nomad & horn bow. 2 or 3 less points would be cool. It'd make :

Nomad :
missile speed: 45
weight: 2.4
accuracy: 101
difficulty: 2
speed rating: 68
missile speed: 48
thrust damage: 21 cut
slots: 2

Tatar bow:
missile speed: 43
weight: 2.4
accuracy: 101
difficulty: 3
speed rating: 65
missile speed: 46
thrust damage: 22 cut
slots: 2

Horn bow
missile speed: 41
weight: 2.7
accuracy: 101
difficulty: 5
speed rating: 59
missile speed: 44
thrust damage: 26 cut (+2)
slots: 2

2 slots for every bow BELOW 4 PD. Offer free respecs to archers who were 2h/archer hybrids and archers in general.

2nd step :  Reduce the wpf damage bonus by two. It makes 1.5 % more damage every 20 wpf.

3rd step : arrows.

I'd simply see more balanced stats. The ones you gave are too high, and too bad for bodkins. It's pretty much the same as the stats we got atm which are the most balanced for non bodkin arrows.

Arrows - cheap
Barbed - decent bonus, more ammo than tatar, cheaper.
tatar - big bonus, less ammo than barbed, more expensive.

Bodkins now ... I propose at +0 rank

Ammo : 10 , which makes 15 at +3. (Or 13, depends if you also change that)
damgage : 3 (+1 damage, to compensate the loss of 5 arrows)
same price



ALSO, I WANT TO MAKE THIS CLEAR, IF THESE CHANGES ARE IN, GIVE FREE RESPECS.


EDIT : The stats you gave are good overall both on bows and arrows (give less ammo for arrows, and it's balanced right you wanted to), but I strongly disagree on bodkins. A quiver is at least made of 10 arrows, supposing an archer will get two of those. So, it makes something around 25/26 arrows, instead of 16, which is a ridiculous ammount.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:29:37 am
I ninjad my previous post, please read. I think itll make some shit more clear :)
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Switchtense on July 13, 2014, 01:30:17 am
Hmm, it will eventually be wether you want punching strength or more arrows. You could use the bodkins only, but youll have such a small quiver that youll be out very fast.

In my opinion picking arrows up is silly in the first place. They should lose 1 rank once they are shot to simulate collateral damage with walls/objects. Or not being able to be picked up at all, cause theyll most likely be damaged upon impact.

Arrows that fly and hit the ground are perfectly intact. Obviously a high velocity arrow hitting a brick wall or so might end up damage. But still.

Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:31:13 am
Arrows that fly and hit the ground are perfectly intact. Obviously a high velocity arrow hitting a brick wall or so might end up damage. But still.

Picking them up from the ground is perfectly fine with me.  :)

Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Algarn on July 13, 2014, 01:36:45 am
Restricting arrows is bad for gameplay, and sounds retarded... (ex : a tatar bow not able to use tatar arrows). Giving less ammo is a choice for nerfing the spam, and even if I agree with the principe, which is an arrow shouldn't be ticking a fucking target, even less with 9 PD, I doubt being alone to have a word about that. Ask Steevee and other archers about what they think, since only them will know what is a destruction of archery or a slight nerf.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:40:45 am
If done correctly this will be the effect of this system:


This is the idea, and I dont think this is in any way annerf to archery. It is merely a change to their playstyle, a change that shows in how they shoot, how much they shoot and who they shoot.

Basically they will not be able to carry 60 arrows with them, unless they choose to choose quantity in aroows over high damage.

And I dont think restrictions on arrows is in any way detrimental to gameplay - the only thing that happens is that archers will have to choose which role they want to fullfill, instead of being a "i kill everything no matter what you are" kind of role they have atm.

Ie:
cav hunters will most likely take a low tier bow + 2 bags of barbed arrows. They will also be effective vs lightly armored foes.

Medium to heavy hunters  will most likely take a high tier bow + tatar and bodkins.

Heavy plate/cav hunters will take 2 bags of bodkins AND be allowed to take a 1 slot 1h/2h(secondary mode)
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Algarn on July 13, 2014, 01:46:01 am
Still need to be tested to prevent from mass abusing or complete death of archery. Still, 10/12 arrows in a regular quiver of bodkins sounds good enough.
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 01:48:10 am
Still need to be tested to prevent from mass abusing or complete death of archery. Still, 10/12 arrows in a regular quiver of bodkins sounds good enough.

Naturally everything is up for change :)

Ninja edited something in my orevious post aswell
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Cup1d on July 13, 2014, 08:03:37 am
You propose to use 2 kind of arrows and assume that archer must switch between them on fly?
Title: Re: Archery overhaul
Post by: Joseph Porta on July 13, 2014, 12:41:35 pm
Too ambitious