cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Mr_Oujamaflip on July 05, 2014, 09:53:18 am

Title: Arbalest
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on July 05, 2014, 09:53:18 am
Hello

Random idea.

Arbalest does a lot of damage but doesn't always kill the low armoured dudes which can be frustrating given the reload speed. In addition I feel like I have too much melee capability when fighting with it. Too good on both sides to an extent.

My thought about this is make Arbalest 3 slot, buff damage or projectile speed accordlingly (not by much just a little). Leave the rest the same.

This thing is basically a hand held ballista and was meant to be significantly larger than any other crossbow hence the 3 slots. Plus it would only allow the 0 slot one handed weapons to be used which reduces it's melee capabilites somewhat.

Your friend,

Ouj.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Quentry on July 05, 2014, 10:42:23 am
I think that 3slot will be ridiculous, 2 slot are fine, but I agreed with small buff of projective speed OR damage
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on July 05, 2014, 11:01:01 am
Why would it be ridiculous? It wouldn't change the Arbalest much it would just prevent me rolling with an awesome sword. Making a ranged class more ranged.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Quentry on July 05, 2014, 11:25:35 am
Why would it be ridiculous? It wouldn't change the Arbalest much it would just prevent me rolling with an awesome sword. Making a ranged class more ranged.
If you wanna be a dedicated xbowmen(at least 180wpf) with 18 difficulty arbalest you have to choose between powerstrike and athletics. I think that reduce melee capability of xbowmen a bit
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Rico on July 05, 2014, 01:05:01 pm
Making it 3 slots sounds fair when you put the difficulty back to 15, imo
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on July 05, 2014, 01:51:10 pm
As someone whose played 8 gens as an Arbalest/1h, I'd say its pretty good at where its at now in terms of damage. If you are sniping with it, yeah you aren't going to 1h people a whole lot of the time but I've noticed that if you shotgun(which if you practice you can get pretty good at) its going to one hit most people not in high tier armor.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Grumbs on July 05, 2014, 09:39:22 pm
Xbows should require PD + you can wear too much armour + the game mechanics are pretty poor.

Running & shooting, point & click with fast projectiles and they are too accurate without much WPF. They don't really fit in the scheme of the overall gameplay in cRPG imo
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: San on July 05, 2014, 10:06:17 pm
It's difficult to say what's the best choice. Reduced damage on limbs guarantees that you won't 1shot a guy with >30 armor every time, even with a damage increase.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 06, 2014, 07:46:01 am
Xbows should require PD + you can wear too much armour + the game mechanics are pretty poor.

Running & shooting, point & click with fast projectiles and they are too accurate without much WPF. They don't really fit in the scheme of the overall gameplay in cRPG imo

Actually thats not the topic here, read OP again.

I played arbalester for 10 gens or more and with the current selection of 0 slot 1h I think that 3 slots would work just well. By changing its stats it would create a bit more diversity in the xbow category.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 06, 2014, 08:06:13 am
I think a projectile speed/accuracy increase would probably be the handiest buff unless you were to venture into ti_on_agent_hit scripting for special stun animations, which would probably lead to a lot of complaining.

The arbalest's main strength seems to be a flatter trajectory via high missile speed anyway.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: korppis on July 06, 2014, 10:48:34 am
Arbalest does a lot of damage but doesn't always kill the low armoured dudes which can be frustrating given the reload speed.

That must be because of negative movement speed bonus then, because I have 51 armor + some IF and arbalest still one shots me most of the time.

IMHO arbalest has too high damage already. It shouldn't kill unarmored guy with one toe shot for example, but it should pretty much ignore armors and deal  solid damage everytime. Sadly the game doesn't support such mechanism. With this current limited system it's propably just as good now as it can ever be.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on July 06, 2014, 01:22:21 pm
I noticed that a lot as a Ninja as well Sinisstra. Thing is I'm about 3/4 into my first gen as a Crossbowman and I've clocked it just doesn't happen as often as I felt like it did as a Ninja.

What I have clocked is my 1h is awesome so my proposition was to reverse these.

Changing it back to 15 Strength may also work if there are no stat buffs since there will be more WPF available to put into Crossbow giving it a small buff for those levels so it could work.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Algarn on July 06, 2014, 01:50:30 pm
I would simply love to see a PD skill for crossbows (Power pull), which would affect a lot reload speed of the weapon. Give in exchange low reload speed for crossbows, which would be corrected with high PP skill. Then, STR crossbow builds would be effective, and people having low PP skill be penalized a bit on reload, since they got 180 wpf in crossbow (max accuracy).
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on July 06, 2014, 02:30:12 pm

... but it should pretty much ignore armors and deal  solid damage everytime. Sadly the game doesn't support such mechanism. With this current limited system it's propably just as good now as it can ever be.

It's actually pretty easy to have certain weapons ignore armor entirely, even if you don't use the extra_penetration kludge.

Code: [Select]
ti_on_agent_hit = -28.0 #can only be used in module_mission_templates triggers
# Trigger Param 1: receiver agent no
# Trigger Param 2: dealer agent no
# Trigger Param 3: inflicted damage
# Trigger Param 4: raw damage (before being soaked by armor)
# Trigger Param 5: hit bone
# Trigger Param 6: item kind no
# Trigger Param 7: item modifier
# Trigger Param 8: missile item kind no
# Trigger Param 9: missile item modifier
# Trigger Param 10: damage type
# Position Register 0: position of the blow
#                      rotation gives the direction of the blow
# Trigger Result: if set, damage dealt to agent

EDIT: If you get semi-creative with the math, you can even have the final damage result be some number between the raw damage and the inflicted damage for custom penetration values between different weapons. (e.g. trigger result = [raw damage + inflicted damage]/2)
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Ikarus on July 07, 2014, 02:18:47 am
Hmm, mixed feelings cause that would finally be the end of me and my arbalest "big bertha"  :P (can´t handle 0 slot 1h)

on the other hand, I wonder if people would play an arbalest build with a 0 slot 1h weapon...and if it would cause havoc on the battlefield

Yeh, I dunno, you people decide  :)

Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Algarn on July 07, 2014, 02:23:06 am
Hmm, mixed feelings cause that would finally be the end of me and my arbalest "big bertha"  :P (can´t handle 0 slot 1h)

Actually, 0  slot weapons like a +3 broad short sword or a +3 italian fachion are much more deadlier than they seem to be. They are deadly with maxed out PS, and if my suggesion is "accepted", i can just say it'd be as OP as normal weapons, even more OP than your current +3 iberian mace with 7 PS.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Ikarus on July 07, 2014, 04:03:01 am
Actually, 0  slot weapons like a +3 broad short sword or a +3 italian fachion are much more deadlier than they seem to be. They are deadly with maxed out PS, and if my suggesion is "accepted", i can just say it'd be as OP as normal weapons, even more OP than your current +3 iberian mace with 7 PS.
5 ps

hmm, well I´d try for sure, but you know that at least half of my kills are melee kills with my xbow :)
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Nightingale on July 07, 2014, 08:11:26 am
I would simply love to see a PD skill for crossbows (Power pull), which would affect a lot reload speed of the weapon. Give in exchange low reload speed for crossbows, which would be corrected with high PP skill. Then, STR crossbow builds would be effective, and people having low PP skill be penalized a bit on reload, since they got 180 wpf in crossbow (max accuracy).

(click to show/hide)

TL:DR version ; Purple.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on July 07, 2014, 09:15:08 pm
Bit too much of a change imo Nightingale but maybe just a part of your ideas might work out well. I would definitely play arbalester but my xbower has only 15 str and I need 18...  :cry: which makes it unreachable unless I retire or a respec is given when something is changed. But I wont retire at lvl33 gen1.

Atm I use heavy xbow or xbow (depending on what reload speed I want, xbow for close quarters and heavy for open maps) a hunting xbow for backup/doublegunning/quickreload, steel bolts and a 0 slot 1h. This could actually be a totally deadly equip (all +3) but I'm not a good player so I perform ok with it. If I could swap one of my 2 slot xbows with an arbalest... Yes! Right away.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Nightingale on July 07, 2014, 09:52:20 pm
Atm I use heavy xbow or xbow (depending on what reload speed I want, xbow for close quarters and heavy for open maps) a hunting xbow for backup/doublegunning/quickreload, steel bolts and a 0 slot 1h. This could actually be a totally deadly equip (all +3) but I'm not a good player so I perform ok with it. If I could swap one of my 2 slot xbows with an arbalest... Yes! Right away.

To be honest the Heavy Crossbow is more effective than an Arbalest on a relative scale; You will have to shoot everything the same amount of times to get a kill while reloading 2-3 seconds faster, and you don't even have to worry about Delay in the release of the bolt, soft cap for +3 Arbalest is 185 where that is impossible to reach at level 30 with any type of hybridization; but with heavy the soft cap is around 160- and its only requirement is 15 strength making it overall a better choice when it comes to survivability and build effectiveness

 Hunting Crossbow does to much damage now and reloads to fast- its a great side arm for low investment hybrids. I didn't understand the change to hunting all that much it is able to reload faster than most archers, while doing similar damage. its only real downside is effective range where a short bow has less arch than the hunting.

For any range class you really need a full set of +3 equipment or you are not going to do well. I've been playing with my build for about 2 and a half to 3 years and At this moment in time for the first time in a year and a half its practically unplayable really in NA 1; unless the sun, the moon and the earth all aline perfectly and witchcraft curses the server.

The only reason its even semi effective in strat is because of how long the battles last- it allows a player like me to sit back and take long range shots at enemies hoping to hit something over the course of an hour, generally adding up to around 20 or so kills and low death counts but to balance a class based on what a select few individuals can do with a particular weapon in a strat or battle is completely game breaking when most rounds on battle last 2-3 minutes.

I'm just trying to give alternatives to making it 3 slots as that would absolutely kill off the class. 
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: San on July 07, 2014, 10:14:50 pm
For reference, I think these are close to max accuracy wpf requirements

Left side for +0, right side for +3, +1 and +2 are somewhere inbetween.

Hunting Crossbow: 126-131
Light Crossbow: 134-139
Crossbow: 147-152
Heavy Crossbow: 166-171
Arbalest: 180-186






Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: spiritus on July 08, 2014, 10:05:40 am
Bring it back to 15 str and find some other nerf such as this or bolts 2 slots some other ideaaa. Having to use a char with 18 str seems to be a little much this means any agi build under 32 which is usally 15 24 can catch these poor guys on my main even tho lvl 34 i find it way to easy to catch and kill arb players.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on July 08, 2014, 08:01:47 pm
My issue with bringing it down to 15 Strength is it bypasses the nerf for 3 slots which is reducing the melee capabilities cos then theres more WPF to throw into a melee stat.

I think you guys are overcomplicating things.
Title: Re: Arbalest
Post by: Switchtense on July 08, 2014, 08:02:28 pm
I think you guys are overcomplicating things.

no u