cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Husasz on May 19, 2011, 08:38:20 am

Title: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Husasz on May 19, 2011, 08:38:20 am
so those are my stats so far..is this normal or do I just suck? im level 11. In native deathmatch I usually get at least half my deaths in kills, and most of the tiem am just under par.

gonna go play single player and kill sea raiders to boost my confidence 8-)
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Corwin on May 19, 2011, 08:50:10 am
Yeah, that's pretty normal. Wait until you are level 20 or something before you start making some real damage.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Wallace on May 19, 2011, 08:54:19 am
Peasant life is a lot like my erections... short lived and squishy

Just stick it out while girls laugh at you and say things like "thats it?"

because one day you'll meet that special weapon that u talk to she's all "You're the man now dawg!"
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Renegat on May 19, 2011, 09:31:48 am
It's pretty normal indeed, it's difficult for a lvl 11 to be realy dangerous (especially if you're an archer).
If you want to have a more "long live", always follow the group, never go alone, that's the only thing you can do.
So keep on playing crpg, wait lvl 20 and you ll start enjoying this mod ^^
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Husasz on May 19, 2011, 09:32:44 am
heh, thanks guys, i was assuming it would be a bit like this but damn is it frustrating.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Espu on May 19, 2011, 09:35:04 am
Kills are not the only way to be useful. Get a shield or a long stick and poke/block enemies trying to hit your buddies. You might save a few and help win the day.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 19, 2011, 09:51:45 am
Kills are not the only way to be useful. Get a shield or a long stick and poke/block enemies trying to hit your buddies. You might save a few and help win the day.
also allways keep in mind that you are quite fast with your low gear. attract some guy that believe u an easy kill and lure him to your teammates.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Knute on May 19, 2011, 10:16:03 am
I bet that one kill was awesome though!

Yeah, even if you don't put points into polearms, the pike and other long spears are good low upkeep weapons for supporting your team and getting the occasional kill.  The light crossbow with steel bolts is another good way to get a few kills from a safe distance.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Khalim on May 19, 2011, 10:30:29 am
I think this is the games greatest weakness.

Professional Gamedesigner will laugh at the fact, that you have to WAIT until Lv 20 to actually be able to do something in battle.

This game is totally horrible for beginner! Even the Heirloom thing is extremly bad for beginner, because many player have accumulated easily generation before patch, but if you start right now, you will have to play 200 hours to get 1 Masterpiece item.

Until 200 gametime is spent, MW items will not be worth anything because of the inflation which will be caused by high gen players who have actually gained some Heirloompoints "for free" and accumulate them faster(okay gen bonus got nerved to 3%, I know, but this also makes quite a difference if you have +30-60% more XP)


I see that CRPG improves, but until the game is not designed for beginners, the number of players will not increase as fast as it actually should.


@skip the fun

First of all I was really happy about this, but actually this is dumb shit.

It would be much better if there where no restriction and no money gain. If you start with Lv 30 you should only need the full XP to gain Lv 31.

without skip the fun: 1->31 takes 8,7 MIO XP
with skip the fun: 30->31 should take 8,7 or even 10 MIO XP

This would be the right solution
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Camaris on May 19, 2011, 10:49:57 am
I think this is the games greatest weakness.

Professional Gamedesigner will laugh at the fact, that you have to WAIT until Lv 20 to actually be able to do something in battle.

This game is totally horrible for beginner! Even the Heirloom thing is extremly bad for beginner, because many player have accumulated easily generation before patch, but if you start right now, you will have to play 200 hours to get 1 Masterpiece item.

Until 200 gametime is spent, MW items will not be worth anything because of the inflation which will be caused by high gen players who have actually gained some Heirloompoints "for free" and accumulate them faster(okay gen bonus got nerved to 3%, I know, but this also makes quite a difference if you have +30-60% more XP)


I see that CRPG improves, but until the game is not designed for beginners, the number of players will not increase as fast as it actually should.


@skip the fun

First of all I was really happy about this, but actually this is dumb shit.

It would be much better if there where no restriction and no money gain. If you start with Lv 30 you should only need the full XP to gain Lv 31.

without skip the fun: 1->31 takes 8,7 MIO XP
with skip the fun: 30->31 should take 8,7 or even 10 MIO XP

This would be the right solution

In some things you are just wrong.
1. With char recalculation the playtime a new char has to spend to get to lets say generation 10 is exactly the same playtime a
vet spend to get there. They are just playing longer but they dont proceed faster. IF you play as long as they did you will have
the same generation as they had at this time.

2. LvL1-20 are so easy to obtain that no developer would laugh about gameplay.
For example i am Generation 12 now. I retired yesterday. I also have to lvl up from 1-30 again like a new player.
Its ok. The real difference between me and the noob is that i spend a lot of time at the duellservers and so can be
effective earlier with less lvls.

3. A masterwork weapon will always have the same stats so it doesnt matter when you get it. In addition not every old player is gathering Heirlooms anymore. For example i am done with heirlooming.
I wont heirloom any more i will try to reach lvl33 or in a far future lvl34.
Until i get to lvl34 a newb can retire several times closing the heirloom gap. Until i get to lvl35 a noob probably could lvl to lvl34 too... and reaching lvl35 is something i dont even dream of.

=> the lvling system in CRPG is totally fine. The problem of new players is not that they are lowlvl or that other people got heirloom.
The problem of new players is that they are noobs. They suck at blocking, they suck at movement, they suck at battleawareness, they suck in timing.
You dont get better cause you have uberheirlooms you get better cause you trained not to suck at everything.

PS: When i was noob blocking was a mystery to me and if i blocked a swing it was mostly by accident.
After over a half year and lots of hours (which were really fun) at the duellserver i think i became a decent player.
There are new players i probalby would beat most of the time  with wooden sword and peasant gear while they get all of my equipment.
There are still some (very few *g*) other players which could do the same to me ;) (
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Corwin on May 19, 2011, 10:52:20 am
Hey, I killed people at lvl 4, and I know plenty of other players that have done so. Already at lvl 13 (9str, 9agi) you can play against some of the players at least, or have a support role. The problem is only the first time you start to play, when you still don't know how things work, and you can't contribute. Anyway, to lvl 20 you usually get in several hours, it is not that long. 

@Camaris
+ 1 for the points about new players.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Blondin on May 19, 2011, 12:40:12 pm
+1 for Camaris

This mod has never been so noob friendly, before it was a real pain to achieve level 20 and to buy good equip.
Now anybody can have any armor or weapon fast, and a lvl30 build.

I remember when i was a peasant, been killed by uber tincan with armored horse, 2 or 3 big weapons and a sniper xbow (don't even talk of plated HA...).
What have done the dev is awesome for newplayers, we even have changelog now!!
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 19, 2011, 02:55:35 pm
In addition to camaris points:
heirlooms are cool, but you don't have a real disadvantage without them. If your aim is to have fun with the game there is nothing forcing you to "fill the gap" to other players with ten loomed items. The slightly better stats of these items can be decisive in a few random situtions, but in general the usual things like personal fighting skills (blocking, timing, footwork, etc.), teamwork and general awareness are the crucial factors.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 19, 2011, 05:21:24 pm
I suggest playing on siege to level a low character, as it gives you xp as well as fast respawns so you can practice the differences between this game and native. After you feel dangerous, then battle will be a good choice for the rest of your levels as well as gold.

At low levels, try practicing blocking when someone attacks you, and see how long you can hold out. Combat speed and weapons are different in this mod.

EDITED out as this is the third fourth time in four or so months I was wrong on a point, psh.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 19, 2011, 05:38:36 pm
Anywho, I suggest playing on siege to level a low character, as it gives you xp as well as fast respawns so you can practice the differences between this game and native. After you feel dangerous, then battle will be a good choice for the rest of your levels as well as gold.
My feeling is that I get allways much more xp and gold in average on battle, but who knows for sure?

Also I think Siege is much harder for beginners because personal skill is more important. I'm not saying siege is not for teamplay but you can get much further with good awareness and clever positioning only on battle IMO. That said if you want to practice personal fighting skills siege is good of course.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Camaris on May 19, 2011, 06:44:35 pm
In my opinion siege is the better option for newbs to get the basics. They will have 10-20 fights in one siege round while they probably only have 1-2 in battle.
It can give you some basic skills some good understanding of timing and reach of your preferred weapons and give you some better movement and a little bit blockskills.

To really be good at feinting, blocking you have (in my opinion) spend a lot of time on duell server.
You can´t learn blocking effectivly on battle or siege.

Battle on the other hand is best to train you awareness of the fights. You will always try to avoid horses dont crush into multiple enemies etc. cause then you have to wait.
You will learn which risks you can take and which are just stupid.

Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 19, 2011, 06:56:01 pm
In my opinion siege is the better option for newbs to get the basics. They will have 10-20 fights in one siege round while they probably only have 1-2 in battle.
It can give you some basic skills some good understanding of timing and reach of your preferred weapons and give you some better movement and a little bit blockskills.

To really be good at feinting, blocking you have (in my opinion) spend a lot of time on duell server.
You can´t learn blocking effectivly on battle or siege.

Battle on the other hand is best to train you awareness of the fights. You will always try to avoid horses dont crush into multiple enemies etc. cause then you have to wait.
You will learn which risks you can take and which are just stupid.

Marvelous advice, the community is shining! +1
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Bulzur on May 19, 2011, 10:12:30 pm
Shouldn't newcomers join DTV ? I heard it's the best grinding mode, providing there's 4 good players in the team. AND there's plenty of opponents, and you can practice against bots (try to flee when there's more than 1 though, even high level players got difficulty vs 4 mauls).

Else, i agree Siege is interesting, since it provides way more "experience" in game, than battle, wher you hide, and hide, and die.
(click to show/hide)

My last advice : You're new, you just don't have money. Try buying one of thoses 4k armor, and put all your attributes points in STR (do not make an archer as your first character, you'll get bored before). At level 12, you have at least 15 STR (providing some combining), wich is 5 PS. But the best part about this, is you can actually pick up more than half of the melee weapon dropped on the battlefield, and you can do damage !  I always level up my alts with full (or nearly) STR, before going AGI for atheltics and weapon mastery.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: victis honor on May 19, 2011, 10:17:29 pm
go for the enemy horsies.  get a long stick whit a point and ruin cav's day!
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Adam_Bomb on May 20, 2011, 03:00:01 am
The best and most helpful way to be a peasant is to be the ladder/seige shield carrier for your team.  With the slot patch, ladders can't be carried by those who need them (ranged).  Bring a ladder to battle, announce it to your team, and get your ranged up to a good position.  Its the single most useful way a low level can help, and your team's ranged players will love you for it.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Kafein on May 20, 2011, 03:07:20 am
I think this is the games greatest weakness.

Professional Gamedesigner will laugh at the fact, that you have to WAIT until Lv 20 to actually be able to do something in battle.

This game is totally horrible for beginner! Even the Heirloom thing is extremly bad for beginner, because many player have accumulated easily generation before patch, but if you start right now, you will have to play 200 hours to get 1 Masterpiece item.

Until 200 gametime is spent, MW items will not be worth anything because of the inflation which will be caused by high gen players who have actually gained some Heirloompoints "for free" and accumulate them faster(okay gen bonus got nerved to 3%, I know, but this also makes quite a difference if you have +30-60% more XP)


I see that CRPG improves, but until the game is not designed for beginners, the number of players will not increase as fast as it actually should.


@skip the fun

First of all I was really happy about this, but actually this is dumb shit.

It would be much better if there where no restriction and no money gain. If you start with Lv 30 you should only need the full XP to gain Lv 31.

without skip the fun: 1->31 takes 8,7 MIO XP
with skip the fun: 30->31 should take 8,7 or even 10 MIO XP

This would be the right solution

Some games aren't meant to be finished when you start them. Maybe you are used to modern average videogames that usually aren't longer than 10 hours to "complete". Difficulty is also part of the gaming pleasure, don't forget that.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Rangerbob on May 20, 2011, 05:40:39 am
I went 8-6 at lvl 7 with robes and a spike mace.  Blunt weapons with knockdown are the way to go.  Quarterstaff and spike mace are the best peasant weapons for people who can manual block.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: La Makina on May 20, 2011, 10:30:23 am
The best and most helpful way to be a peasant is to be the ladder/seige shield carrier for your team.  With the slot patch, ladders can't be carried by those who need them (ranged).  Bring a ladder to battle, announce it to your team, and get your ranged up to a good position.  Its the single most useful way a low level can help, and your team's ranged players will love you for it.

You can also:

Push siege tower (you might see me there)
Bring exta ammo for your archers
Bring a pike too
Hold a torch to light the way for your teammates
Prepare their lunchbags
and keep some jokes for the chat when the time get long.

Undoubtedly, you will become soon an essential member of the team.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Phazey on May 20, 2011, 12:18:53 pm
What Camaris said. And Manika.

Instead of desperately trying to get a kill at level 11 (which, can be a lot of fun... i can also understand that some people might get frustrated), use those precious few first hours of gameplay to get to know the maps and the battle dynamics.
Get to know the players a bit, try and see what tactics they use and try to keep up.

So, as a peasant:

While dead, you can:
If you are using steam, i'd recommend using the steam browser. If you go to c-rpg.net (without the www.) it will remember your login, so you'll only have to login once and for the rest of the time you can just type c-rpg.net in the adress bar once every time you start the game. If you have multiple characters, just use the pull down menu under your character name to switch.
Without steam, you can alt-enter to activate windowed mode and put the browser over the game, so you can still keep half an eye on the battle. Learn to recoginze the sounds associated by starting a new round. Make sure you get back to the game quickly when a new round starts, so you'll not get left behind!

But also spend some time observing players to:

Etcetera etcetera etcera. Don't come walking into cRPG thinking you'll master the game in a few hours. It's complicated and not easy at all. Don't get fooled into thinking character level and gear is all that matters. Quite the opposite is true: a master at manual blocking with good map knowlege can be a usefull addition to his team, even below level 20... but in the end it all boils down to good teamplay. So try to use tactics and strategies. Encourage teamplay. Make a plan.

Don't feel bad if you don't manage to be very useful at the first week you play. This happens a lot and is normal. Don't get angry. Instead, make the most of it. Plenty to do!

Enjoy peasanthood while it lasts. You'll miss it when it's gone...  :D
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Corwin on May 20, 2011, 01:58:38 pm
Shouldn't newcomers join DTV ? I heard it's the best grinding mode, providing there's 4 good players in the team. AND there's plenty of opponents, and you can practice against bots (try to flee when there's more than 1 though, even high level players got difficulty vs 4 mauls).
The bots would chamber the hell out of ya!  It is not that easy at all, last night we played for hours, I don't think we ever won against 'vitez'. And the bots are chambering all the time, while their crossbowmen aim at the head!
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: La Makina on May 20, 2011, 03:19:01 pm
Could we stick Phazey' post? It is a very good introduction.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: AzureSkys on May 20, 2011, 03:38:49 pm
Things just get better the more you play. I didn't get a kill on my gen 1 char until level 17 or 20 or something. The next time around I did much better. Now, a few gens later at level 2 I killed Kesh  (lucky timing, though) and actually do better in my early levels than I do at 30.

As has been said, concentrate on the team effort, which is what this game is about. I was seriously frustrated with trying to block, but after forcing myself to for awhile it's getting better. It just takes time and practice.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Laufknoten on May 20, 2011, 03:58:20 pm
Easymode-2h is the best way to get kills at the early levels. Even with the practice longsword you can have a positive k/d on battle servers, but you need luck, cause you're an easy target for rangers and your weapon is kinda useless against tin cans.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Phazey on May 20, 2011, 04:01:18 pm
Edit: below poster is right. But yeh, going 2h (even with 0 2h wpf) can net you a few kills early on. The axe (str 6, 30 cut) is a pretty nice start weapon too.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Laufknoten on May 20, 2011, 04:10:46 pm
Actualy, the practice longsword is quite good against tincans, because it does blunt damage. But yeh, going 2h (even with 0 2h wpf) can net you a few kills early on. The axe (str 6, 30 cut) is a pretty nice start weapon too.
Sure, blunt is great against heavy armored opponents, but at the beginning you just don't have the power and many hits just bounce, espacially when the enemy is very close to you.
The spiked mace is a good blunt weapon and you can use it quite early.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: RandomDude on May 20, 2011, 06:08:50 pm
Some people already made good posts but I cant resist posting myself;

Dont worry about a low K:D at the moment. Depending on your class + how you build your character it can take you longer to get kills than other classes.

If you put any thought at all into what stats you want for your char and didnt just do random clicks then I'd be surprised if you cant get some kills at 20+.

For myself i put all stat pts into strength until I reach the number I want to max at and then go agi. This means I have all my powerstrike and can use my flamberge at the earliest opportunity (I also usually convert skill pts early if I plan on doing it at all)

I dont think there's any more advice I can give about playing as a lower level that no-one else has given - I either grab a pitchfork and try to stop cav/interrupt enemies while a team mate is fighting them or just take a wooden longsword and hit people over the head (especially effective if they have no head armour). If you're putting pts into strength first then it wont be long before you can change weapons.

I would also recommend playing siege (as another poster suggested) if you need fighting experience as the respawn times are lowest there (meaning you play more and spectate less).

DTV isnt bad for fighting/levelling but it doesnt really teach you much for the other modes, except maybe some manual block practice with a lack of feinting (if you're using DTV for manual block practice then why not just play the tutorial and train there? You dont have to worry about dying.)
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Husasz on May 20, 2011, 08:24:52 pm
Thanks for all the great input guys, heres the equipment I have right now.. and my build

my equipment is
vaegir helmet
tribal warrior outfit
blue hose

and for weapons
nomad sabre
scythe
knightly kite shield.

6 strength
13 agility
82 1 handed
73 polearm
1 IF
2 PS
4 Shield
4 Athletics
3 weapon master
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Duster on May 20, 2011, 10:27:32 pm
I remember when I first started playing crpg, my first kill was pretty goddamn exciting.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: 7000bc on May 21, 2011, 11:57:31 pm
If you really want kills early on, do what I did and pump that strength up to 20 before even touching agi. Started getting decent kills pretty early. :D Blunt or pierce weapons help a lot too.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: zagibu on May 22, 2011, 01:53:55 am
You can't kill people with 6 str, weakling. Do you want to tickle them to death?
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 22, 2011, 06:54:36 pm
You can't kill people with 6 str, weakling. Do you want to tickle them to death?

Lies! I remember headshotting someone twice with a hunting bow and killing them at level 4!
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2011, 11:34:19 pm
Each time I retire I enjoy the peasanthood and the few kills I make more than 100 of them at level 30. but I know that allways being a peasant would become boring after a while.


The most epic thing you can do in cRPG is sparta-kicking someone (an enemy xD) at level 1. And get a kill with it, ofc.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cingal on May 23, 2011, 11:49:22 am
A lot of people seem to be forgetting fun is the most important thing that should be happening.

Not fun to die 53 times and kill 1 person.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Phazey on May 23, 2011, 12:29:15 pm
Cingal, that's just a matter of preference. I loved those first long hours of cRPG as a peasant. When i started, it took days, not hours to get to a decent level and get some proper gear.

You have it easy. If you can't handle the challenge, go 'skip the fun' and make a level 30 character. But trust me, there is no substitute for skills and experience. People just need to practice a bit on the duel server. Get a bit of training from an experienced player.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Blondin on May 23, 2011, 02:21:22 pm
it depends if you prefer to have fun by killing other in the easy way, or if you prefer the challenge.
for the easy way, go singleplayer.
For the challenge (and the rage with it) go to multiplayer.

cRPG is not harder than Native, it's just that there is more noobs in Native (or more skiled player in cRPG) so you die most in cRPG.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cingal on May 23, 2011, 03:53:00 pm
I fail to see the "Challenge" in running around, getting 1 shot and waiting until you have enough money and EXP to actually be useful.

The simple fact is that, getting 1 shot and barely even doing damage to people is not going to be fun for a good number of people.

Ideally, a newbie server or something like that would be the best idea.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Vibe on May 23, 2011, 04:00:21 pm
It takes you about 2-4 hours to reach lvl 20 or so...
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cingal on May 23, 2011, 04:03:18 pm
http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm

At x1 Multiplier it takes you almost 11 hours to reach 20.

So, unless your running around constantly with 5x, "2 hours" is completely wrong.

2-4 hours, however, may be possible, if you constantly have 3x-4x, which is also highly unlikely.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Vibe on May 23, 2011, 04:04:07 pm
2-4 hours, however, may be possible, if you constantly have 3x-4x, which is also highly unlikely.

Play DTV for the first few levels then.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cingal on May 23, 2011, 04:06:21 pm
Play DTV for the first few levels then.

I refer to my statement of fun, but, yes, that's entirely possible.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Phazey on May 23, 2011, 04:11:58 pm
Oh come on, nobody sits at x1 for 11 hours.

At the very least, you should average a multiplier near x2, which makes leveling to 20... what? Six hours of playing at best. That's two light evenings of playing.

In that time, you should have plenty to do, like i said in my post above. And you CAN kill people under level 20, it's really not that hard. Us 'veterans' get a 1 in 10 k:d or better under level 20. So don't act like you are forced to leech for days on end. It's just not true.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cingal on May 23, 2011, 04:28:28 pm
Oh come on, nobody sits at x1 for 11 hours.

At the very least, you should average a multiplier near x2, which makes leveling to 20... what? Six hours of playing at best. That's two light evenings of playing.

In that time, you should have plenty to do, like i said in my post above. And you CAN kill people under level 20, it's really not that hard. Us 'veterans' get a 1 in 10 k:d or better under level 20. So don't act like you are forced to leech for days on end. It's just not true.

Actually, if you assume the average win ratio is 50:50, given both teams are balanced an on a balance map, it would therefore mean that, in some cases, for every round a play would win, they were therefore lose one afterwards, making 1x the most common result, meaning 11 hours is much more possible to happen than six hours.

However, in a realistic situation, the actual length of time, is probably more likely to be closer to 8 hours. Unless you get lucky.

How are you not forced? Have you looked into the numbers exactly? Have you compared the Kills to Death of new players and compared these to higher levelled players?

Although, saying that, K/D is completely worthless, what's more much important is the feeling of worth in a battle.

Are you honestly telling me that a new player is going to feel worthwhile in a battle while getting one-shot and racking up a horrible death ratio?

To me, to imply as much would assume a complete lack of understanding of people playing the game.

While it's nice to reference veterans, new players are not veterans, and defaulting to "Lol lern 2 play" is not good design.


Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Phazey on May 23, 2011, 04:31:05 pm
Go skip the fun, mr whine. Or go play native.

If you can't muster up the perserverance to get a character to level 20 without complaining as much as you do, well... clearly, this game is not for you.

... what's more much important is the feeling of worth in a battle.

Are you honestly telling me that a new player is going to feel worthwhile in a battle while getting one-shot and racking up a horrible death ratio?

Yes, that's exactly what i'm telling you. Getting a horrible k:d ratio and then finally getting the first kills is exactly what makes starting a new character on cRPG so much fun. It's a challenge.

Nobody said it's easy.

Your implicit assumption that you should get a good k:d ratio in the first hours of making a new character is just absurd.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Blondin on May 23, 2011, 04:43:02 pm
Go skip the fun, mr whine. Or go play native.

If you can't muster up the perserverance to get a character to level 20 without complaining as much as you do, well... clearly, this game is not for you.

Yes, that's exactly what i'm telling you. Getting a horrible k:d ratio and then finally getting the first kills is exactly what makes starting a new character on cRPG so much fun. It's a challenge.

Nobody said it's easy.

Your implicit assumption that you should get a good k:d ratio in the first hours of making a new character is just absurd.

this, exactly what i wanted to say, but with better words!
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cingal on May 23, 2011, 04:47:07 pm
Actually, I'm already level 19 or so and do pretty well.

I'm giving feedback on my experiences during the early days, and a complaint I have heard most often is "It's rough and not fun to be new".

So, how about, rather than instantly jumping on the "This person is complaining and needs to shut up."

We all think for a moment "Let's listen to a person's feedback and come up with a way to improve the game for those numerous complaints."

So please, some maturity would not go amiss.


I suggested the idea, that there should be servers only open to new players, however, as yet, nobody is to actually give any response to this.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 23, 2011, 04:54:40 pm
That would only be viable if the server/s could be set up to only allow CD keys that had a total lifetime XP of less then a certain amount, otherwise you will have veteran players entering and trolling with low level characters.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Phazey on May 23, 2011, 05:17:26 pm
Cingal, i just strongly disagree with your view that cRPG should be easier on new players.

Part of the fun is that you level up in real battles with real players. Newbies and veteran players alike using all kinds of builds in a massive fight to the death. With a little luck, there is even some good teamplay going on. That's where you really learn the game. Not on some newbie only server. Being 'thrown into the deep' is part of cRPG's charm. Not something to be removed or changed.

I've already summed up lots of things to do as a peasant. Plenty to do, really! If you get bored leveling up, this game is not for you.
Yes, you'll lose most 1 vs 1 fights. So you're forced to try teamplay, maybe supporting a teamate. At the same time, you get time to get to grips with the maps, the battle dynamics, etc. Is it really that important to get a positive k:d-ratio? I think it's not. Quite the opposite: the fact that you are expected not to make any kills at first is what makes creating a new character fun. Therein lies the challenge: getting those first kills should be very difficult. Thus they are special and much more rewarding.

Starting a character at level 30 without the experience you get as a peasant is probably more frustrating, because you'll feel you should be able and are expected to get a positive k:d-ratio.

Back in the day, 'pre patch', it took weeks, not hours to get to a level where your character would become viable. Oddly enough, not many complained. Now, with all the measures to help new players get started, it never seems to be enough.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Banok on May 23, 2011, 05:38:57 pm
its possible to have a postitive kdr from lvl 1 gen 0, done it before when it was even harder cause ppl were lvl 40 and always in full plate.

still hard though.

but if u really care about it can just play on siege server until ur high level.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cepeshi on May 23, 2011, 06:23:25 pm
Phazh: the thing is, if you throw the guys a bone, they will want more next time...

But listen to the wise guy, for he speaks the truth! I remember running around, hiding like idiot for countless hours in old leveling system, feeling frustrated while getting spawn killed as afterwards you just spent time waiting for respawn with no XP/Gold, that was frustrating....

Now when i recruit some friends to try out cRPG, they are not complaining about speed of leveling, actually, i have not seen such post in forums for quite some time. But, when i started playing as a total newb, i remember farming for like a week to be ablet to buy a sword or something :D Now everything is handed out on a gold plate...(even tho i would like the option to transfer money to my alt, so boring waiting till i farm 20k for arbalest...)

Just man up, give it a go on duel server, continue playing and protip for having nice K/D ratio on web: go siege till ur lvl 20, the lifetime K/D does not get affected by siege numbers :P farm money, hone ur skills and go to battle prepared!
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Winchester on May 23, 2011, 07:02:05 pm
I am sure most of you dudes have a good heart and realy try to help newbs like Husasz and me (I experienced the -exact- same thing when i started playing this mod 2 days ago). The community of Mount&Blade and cRPG deserves realy a lot respect, that can not be questioned.

Following: Huge TLDR, do not read if you are not Dev or love Game Design
(click to show/hide)

Greets,
Winchester.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Cepeshi on May 23, 2011, 09:43:16 pm
Wincherster, took me some time to chew thru the wall of text, even tho i am no dev or anything. You got some point, but as usual, there is one BUT.

When i started playing as a noob, i had one friend who showed me blocks (i suck), feints, chambers and all this stuff, as i bought the game on some discount just to play with this one person (long time friends back from Diablo). When i was then able to kill someone and had some experience, i took few newcomers to the duel server and showed them the same stuff my friend showed me. Afterwards, when we met in battle, we were cooperating and stuff, and i found some quite good players like that, well, not uberelite skillers, but mostly good teamplayers.

The thing is: do not be afraid to ask for help, i believe there are loads of people that would spend some time with you on duel server to practise and eventually show you a trick or two :) Just ask.

Edit: wanted to add something, but, forget :D
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: RandomDude on May 23, 2011, 11:02:14 pm
I dunno how there can be any complaints of slow levelling - it's never been as good for the majority really.

I didnt play c-rpg from day 1 but i remember being frustrated at Jesus (a player) for killing the peasant I was fighting and, yet again, I was denied a kill (the only way to get gold/xp). EDIT: I forget whether there was a bonus for the winning team or not but if there was, it was paltry compared to today.

Then there was the group xp - omg that was so much better. I played c-rpg a lot at that time and I saved my gold like a miser and bought my plate gear piece by piece. Finally I had it all except for plate boots but i refused to buy any boots until I had enough for the ones I wanted, and so people shot at my naked feet mostly haha. All of that took 2 weeks or more of intensive playing I think.

Now there's xp/gold for being dead... cmon.

There's even the option to jump to 30 if you really dont like the levelling process.

I cant say that I prefer being a peasant compared to high 20's but it doesnt last that long and you can have a laugh while doing it.

Winchester: I like the idea of a "mentor" system - which is kinda what you're suggesting with knights and squires. I played mount and blade before I played warband so I already knew what the fighting would be like. I didnt know anything about manual blocking and had to learn that in the duel arenas/tutorial bots but I can understand that for a complete newbie it could be even harder.

I dont think most players learned stuff from their clan - if you want to learn the skills you have to make the effort yourself.

Warband rewards skill and I love it because it's so different from the usual online games like Mmorpgs that just rewards stats and knowledge of when and how to use skills. Im good at those games too but warband and games like it are just more intense and exciting.

I dont think newbies should come straight into c-rpg and play in battle mode (it's unforgiving and un-fun for newbies right?) - which is what most probably do. I need to think about it some more before I type anything else.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: oohillac on May 24, 2011, 02:29:08 am
I didn't get my first kill until maybe 40 deaths or so. I'm only at two kills now. A lot of the time I'll land a spearpoke or two, which at least helps.

I figured it would be like this, but I know once I level up more and gear out, things'll be better.

Sticking a downed lancer in the face with my pitchfork was pretty fun, though.
Title: Re: 1 kill 53 deaths.
Post by: Tristan on May 24, 2011, 03:03:36 am
I remember when I started cRPG. It was before everyone was a tincan, but some had just started to be able to get that equipment.
No retirement, no nada. Just a lot of playing to get gold for more eq.

I was also new to native and got my arse sincerely kicked. Switched to mount and musket and learned to play through that mod.
Came back to cRPG and hell I am still around.

What I am trying to say, that if you have a hard time killing something, when you actually achieve that goal it only becomes more awesome.

Oh, and remember the DUEL SERVER. A few minutes in there every day will teach you a lot!