cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Xol! on May 19, 2011, 08:13:17 am

Title: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Xol! on May 19, 2011, 08:13:17 am
Obviously, with heirloom trading and buying just coming out recently, the heirloom market is horrendously unstable.  My question is, what would you consider a fair price for an heirloomed item (priced per level of heirlooming)?

A good post by Rhaelys describing how much a person makes *before repair costs* per generation:

(click to show/hide)
tl;dr :
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Lech on May 19, 2011, 10:55:24 am
I'm willing to pay 200k per level of heirloom, up to 300k.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Thtb on May 19, 2011, 12:53:03 pm
Ain't happening
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Leesin on May 19, 2011, 12:57:51 pm
Wouldn't sell a heirloomed item even for 10 million gold, gold is easy to get but even just 1 heirloom point takes alot of time.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Peasant_Woman on May 19, 2011, 12:58:28 pm
An heirloom is only worth other heirlooms. Gold is trivial unless you use top tier in every slot.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Malaclypse on May 19, 2011, 01:56:10 pm
I'd say 400-500k. The price of a generation with no bonus was about that for me.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 19, 2011, 02:30:46 pm
An heirloom is only worth other heirlooms. Gold is trivial unless you use top tier in every slot.
unless you can buy other heirlooms with it...
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Frell on May 19, 2011, 02:57:03 pm
Hierloom stat increase is useless to me, Im about to be 31, what should I heirloom for a quick sell on the market for lots of gold?
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Timotheusthereal on May 19, 2011, 02:58:41 pm
Hierloom stat increase is useless to me, Im about to be 31, what should I heirloom for a quick sell on the market for lots of gold?

Or simply sell your heirloom point, easy to get the knowledge of whom will have the best offer
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Xol! on May 19, 2011, 03:06:39 pm
Hierloom stat increase is useless to me, Im about to be 31, what should I heirloom for a quick sell on the market for lots of gold?

PM'd you on how you should go about doing this.  I would hang onto your loom point, though, personally.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Frell on May 19, 2011, 03:11:08 pm
Well its only like 2 more damage, not really important to me.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Xol! on May 19, 2011, 03:32:02 pm
To each their own.  The difference in opinion is why there are heirlooms for sale in the first place.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Frell on May 19, 2011, 03:40:29 pm
A single point is useless, but I do think masterwork items would make a big difference, but I dont have the patience to collect.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Lizard_man on May 19, 2011, 04:05:04 pm
i'd pay around 100,000 per heirloom level, it's not exactly easy to make money playing as cavalry...
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tennenoth on May 19, 2011, 04:18:25 pm
It depends on a few things for me:

How many are already in circulation?
How "rare" is the item?
How much demand there is for an item?
Do I have a buyer already lined up?
Do any of my clan members want this item?

So none of the ones in the vote apply to me as there will never be a fixed price for me to pay, you might get lucky, I might really need a rare item where I cannot get another one!
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Xol! on May 19, 2011, 09:09:47 pm
Here's what the heirlooms on the market are going for as of 5/19:

200.000, Commoner's Long Dagger
300.000, Heavy Military Pick
400.000, Tempered Heavy Great Sword
460.000, Tempered Italian Sword
460.000, Thick Coat of Plates
499.900, Thick Black Helmet
499.900, Well Bred Destrier
500.000, Well Bred Courser
500.000, Well Bred Courser
500.000, Well Bred Destrier
599.999, Well Bred Courser
600.000, Tempered Langes Messer
600.000, Well Bred Courser
660.000, Masterwork Falchion
675.000, Staffman's Quarter Staff
700.000, Well Bred Cataphract Horse
700.000, Well Bred Courser
700.000, Well Bred Courser
700.000, Well Bred Plated Charger
900.000, Balanced Heavy Bastard Sword
900.000, Masterwork Heavy Crossbow
1.000.000, Balanced Danish Greatsword
1.000.000, Balanced Long Espada Eslavona
1.000.000, Tempered Flamberge
1.100.000, Champion Cataphract
1.300.000, Masterwork Long Espada Eslavona
1.500.000, Champion Charger
1.500.000, Champion Courser
1.600.000, Mighty Great Maul
1.750.000, Champion Charger
2.000.000, Masterwork Arabian Cavalry Sword
20.000.000, Masterwork Danish Greatsword
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 19, 2011, 09:12:11 pm
I would pay 200K per level of the heirloom, depending on the specific heirloom give or take.

I would never sell my heirlooms though, only trade them for other heirlooms.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Murchad on May 19, 2011, 09:26:29 pm
I paid 750k for a twice heirloomed item and i would gladly do it again.
Also i think alot of the regular players have tired of retiring and are leveling to higher levels.
if someone above 31 decides later that they want a certain item it they may pay even more to get it as they can't retire again to get it.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Immolarian on May 19, 2011, 09:37:10 pm
Kinda funny that high gens can run arround on plated charger 24/7 now, when they sell their heirloom points.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Barbas on May 20, 2011, 03:54:11 am
I look at it this way:

Getting to level 31 takes.. something like 8.8mil experience, right?  (You can adjust if my numbers are wrong.)  So at the current 100 gold / 1000 experience base rate, if you're playing in super cheap gear, going 1-31 would get you something like.. what, 700k gold after repair costs?  That's assuming, again, super cheap gear - and no expense of buying anything new.  If you're not going full peasant, maybe 500k gold?

So I definitely would not pay any more than that - whatever gold I would expect to earn if I just retired and got the heirloom point myself - per heirloom point required for the item.  If it will take about the same time to earn the gold to buy an item as it would for me to heirloom it myself.. well, I might as well get that meager xp bonus from going up a few generations. 

But not all items are equal, so depending on the item I might set a limit at much lower than that even.  It's hard to say of course, given the different requirements on items and all the other factors involved - but some are going to be more or less popular.  If I'm looking for a niche item that not too many people use, it might be that I'm the only serious buyer interested in a Masterwork Awlpike, so a seller may have to negotiate me if they want to sell the item at all.  Supply and demand, yada yada.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Zergmar on May 20, 2011, 04:06:52 am
did some math earlier on:

while farming 1 million gold (playing and having to repair gear) you'll fully retire 5 times
and leeching completely naked you'll still get 3 heirloom points before 1 million gold

so around 200k per heirloom point is where buying makes sense, otherwise just go and heirloom yourself
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: WaltF4 on May 20, 2011, 04:43:01 am
Gold made per generation = (8735843exp * (50gold * Average Multiplier - 0.002 * Average Equipment Cost)) / (Average Multiplier * (1000exp + 30exp * ( Generation - 1)))

With generations greater than 16 counting as 16. I believe the 0.0027 rate of maintenance (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2394.0.html) is still accurate, but testing is ongoing.

EDIT: It appears that the rate of maintenance may have been reduced since the time of my previous test. A sample of 100 games shows a ~0.002 rate of maintenance with a breakage chance of ~4% per tick and a repair cost 5% of the item buying price. These values are consistent with those released by the development team.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tydeus on May 20, 2011, 05:24:46 am
Getting to level 31 takes.. something like 8.8mil experience, right?  (You can adjust if my numbers are wrong.)  So at the current 100 gold / 1000 experience base rate, if you're playing in super cheap gear, going 1-31 would get you something like.. what, 700k gold after repair costs?  That's assuming, again, super cheap gear - and no expense of buying anything new.  If you're not going full peasant, maybe 500k gold?
It's actually 50 gold, so your numbers are off by more than half, after repairs.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: HarunYahya on May 20, 2011, 05:32:47 am
I can retire every week/2 weeks and buying my no life grinding should be 200-500k dependent on my heirloom .
For example : Shields need shield skill so i need to play 3 times shielder to make a shield 3x loomed . Same goes to horses,bows,throwing weapons (I don't think that anyone will buy tho)

I think price of a mw Great long axe should be around 600k but champ arabian warhorse should be 900-1200 k.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Rhaelys on May 20, 2011, 05:52:00 am
The maximum amount of gold you could gain in a single generation is actually at generation 1, because with higher generations the amount of XP you gain per tick is higher, but the amount of gold you gain per tick remains the same.


Thus, with 8,735,000 XP needed to retire: (I do not know the exact values for the last three digits, but it's inconsequential)

8,735,000 XP/1,000 XP per tick = 8,735 ticks x 50 gold = 436,750 gold

This holds regardless of multiplier, because gold increases by the same proportion that XP does. Consider the case of a perpetual 5x multiplier:

8,735,000 XP/5,000 XP per tick = 1,747 ticks x 250 gold = 436,750 gold


Now let's consider the worst case scenario.

You gain the least amount of gold when you receive maximum XP ticks, which is set to 1,450 at a x1 (generation 16).

8,735,000 XP/1,450 XP per tick = 6025 ticks x 50 gold = 301,250 gold


What was the point of this post?

I don't know.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: bilwit on May 20, 2011, 06:23:53 am
did some math earlier on:

while farming 1 million gold (playing and having to repair gear) you'll fully retire 5 times
and leeching completely naked you'll still get 3 heirloom points before 1 million gold

so around 200k per heirloom point is where buying makes sense, otherwise just go and heirloom yourself

The time it takes to get to 31 factors into the price.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tydeus on May 20, 2011, 08:26:18 am
What many people are forgetting in this thread, is that there are now several players that simply do not want to retire anymore. This means they're unable to gain anymore heirlooms, without buying/trading for them. So you have players with a demand for heirlooms, but aren't willing to do anything to create more heirlooms. Thus the demand is far greater than it otherwise would be. I'd say 250K minimum per heirloom,  800K minimum for a masterworked item.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Torp on May 20, 2011, 11:02:13 am
most people here refuse to sell heirlooms for gold because you say gold is worthless... and that is the reason it is worthless! if pÄeople just started using gold for trading it would BECOME valuable, and the market would become much more stable, and in the end it would benefit us all that we would be able to tarde wthout finding perfect matches.

It's just like real-life money; people could also just say "It' just paper, cant sue it for shit", but they don't because people all over the world agree that these pieces of paper are worth something, and tehrefore they actually are even thoguh it's just paper.
If we did the same with cRPG gold, we would be able to actually get some trading done!
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Lech on May 20, 2011, 12:03:40 pm
If i would be horseman, i would sell some heirlooms to maintain upkeep for my horse + heavy armor.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: _RXN_ on May 20, 2011, 12:20:45 pm
A reasonable price of the heirloom is a price that a buyer is ready to offer to you.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Barbas on May 20, 2011, 01:21:14 pm
Ah, that's right - 50 gold per tick base.  So somewhere between 200k - 300k gold earned per generation.  Or slightly less with generation xp bonuses, but those are so small now I'll ignore them.  So I'd put that as a sort of soft-max price that a heirloom point would be worth to me - the price point at which the time it would take for me to earn the gold to pay for the item would be the same time it would take for me to just heirloom the item myself.

Now someone mentioned that some older players might be tired of retiring and not want to do it anymore, so that could nudge the price up.  Likewise, I don't know how many players have huge stores of gold saved up, but if there are many that could also inflate the price. 

But I think eventually it will max out at something around this value per heirloom point.  I also think heirloomed items will be sold for gold:

Myself, I'm a first gen and only have 100k gold saved up.  Once I get to the point of retiring, I'll have the option of using that 1 heirloom point myself.  I probably won't even notice the difference in the equipment if I do.  And I may choose badly, wasting it on some item I won't want to use in the long run.  So I'd be far more inclined to take up someone's offer of 250k cash to use that heirloom point on whatever item they're willing to pay for - because it would be nice to have that cash cushion so I can go full-plate now and then. 

And don't forget Strategus.  I've been away for ages, so I'm not sure how it may have changed - but if you can use your character's gold for things in Strategus, then gold will become pretty important.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Vicious666 on May 20, 2011, 02:59:44 pm
loom for sell imho is a bad idea.

will force only ppl to  leech and farm more.     
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Phazey on May 20, 2011, 03:02:18 pm
will force only ppl to  leech and farm more.   

Euhm, nobody is forcing anybody. That's just your own need to grind speaking there. Not everyone feels he has to deck out his character in looms.  :wink:
Lately, i've been having more fun on my loom-less alts. I never felt like heirlooms are mandatory. You should treat them as long term objectives you might- or might not ever get to whilst playing for fun.

Try focusing on other fun aspects of the game, such as teamplay and tactics. :D
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Vicious666 on May 20, 2011, 03:07:30 pm
Euhm, nobody is forcing anybody. That's just your own need to grind speaking there. Not everyone feels he has to deck out his character in looms.  :wink:
Lately, i've been having more fun on my loom-less alts. I never felt like heirlooms are mandatory. You should treat them as long term objectives you might- or might not ever get to whilst playing for fun.

Try focusing on other fun aspects of the game, such as teamplay and tactics. :D



yeah thats why half of the scammers on market are  admin/dev,  becouse they  focus on templay and tactics not at grind


and stop follish  ppl with  low and cheap retorical things. loom are needed, is a  competitive game,  you wanna competE? you wanna kill?  you need loom

and  suddently   we have stupid npc games like DTV and  market for loom.

only a blind cant not see where this will bring.             but hey make 1+1 for someone is hard
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Phazey on May 20, 2011, 03:12:08 pm
loom are needed, is a  competitive game,  you wanna competE? you wanna kill?  you need loom
You are fooling yourself into thinking those looms give you an edge. Instead, try playing without them for a while. Make a few alts.
You'll realize that the tiny advantage a couple of heirlooms might give really doesn't change the game that much.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Meow on May 20, 2011, 03:14:46 pm
sorry we destroyed your dream vicious :(
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Punisher on May 20, 2011, 03:15:58 pm
but hey make 1+1 for someone is hard

1+1=10
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: HELM on May 20, 2011, 03:17:14 pm
You are fooling yourself into thinking those looms give you an edge. Instead, try playing without them for a while. Make a few alts.
You'll realize that the tiny advantage a couple of heirlooms might give really doesn't change the game that much.

I agree with Phazey.
SOme dude smacking you with 21 str 7 PS and a great maul is gonna 1 shot u with or without a loomed Great Maul. Lancer cav is gonna 1 shot u with or without a loom. The game is team play and timing orientated. The small advantage a loomed item gives you will not save you from death 99% of the time.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Vicious666 on May 20, 2011, 03:36:25 pm
sorry we destroyed your dream vicious :(

my dream? i have no dream only nightmare

dont follish yourself.         you only adding grind on grind, and claiming it,  feature   
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tydeus on May 20, 2011, 05:20:38 pm
You are fooling yourself into thinking those looms give you an edge. Instead, try playing without them for a while. Make a few alts.
You'll realize that the tiny advantage a couple of heirlooms might give really doesn't change the game that much.
I agree with Phazey.
SOme dude smacking you with 21 str 7 PS and a great maul is gonna 1 shot u with or without a loomed Great Maul. Lancer cav is gonna 1 shot u with or without a loom. The game is team play and timing orientated. The small advantage a loomed item gives you will not save you from death 99% of the time.
I really want to agree with both of you, but 14 extra body armor can be a good amount of damage negation, especially when someone is wearing plate. I've never been one to think looms give you much of an advantage, even with the previous weapon looms, but it does give you an "edge". It may not be much, but extra damage is extra damage.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Kharn on May 20, 2011, 05:23:07 pm
Every problem with a number for an answer can be solved with math.

To lay down some base information I used in my calculations:

The average xp per minute is 1950.
The math to determine this is based on a 50% chance of loss each round.
Average exp per minute =   (1000 * 0.5) +  (2000 * 0.25) + (3000 * 0.12) + (4000 *.06) +  (5000 0.07)
To be exact if you want, every minute of game play you gain 1950 exp and 97.5 gold

At this rate level 31 takes exactly 76 hours for a 1st generation player.

So... it takes 76 hours of work to obtain an heirloom, but that is not the end of the story. During that time your character produces 444,620 gold.  Formula:

Heirloom_Times * (76 hours of work + 444,620 gold) + Original_item_cost = Cost_of_Heirloom

to reduce further, 76 hours also equates to 444,620 gold so

Heirloom_Times * (889,240 gold) + Original_item_cost = Cost_of_heirloom

The first time you heirloom an item it is worth to you 889,240 gold
The second is 862,562 gold
The third is 835,886 gold
So triple heir-loomed item is theoretically worth +2,587688 gold

But by observation it is clear that players value not going without armor and weapon for 76 hours at over 444,620 gold. Because of this it can be excluded from the calculations by an opportunity cost that renders it irrelevant. So really, the actual value is half of this, making the final values calculated to be:  (rounded)

1x Loom +=    445,000 gold
2x Loom +=    876,000 gold
3x Loom += 1,294,000 gold

----------------------------------------------------------------

P.S. :  These final values are simply the value of obtaining them yourselves.  If people are not willing to pay this amount for your items then in general  it is not worth the money to sell your heirlooms.  (unless the heirloom is worthless to you like an Elders Training Sword)
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: AgentQ on May 20, 2011, 05:25:50 pm
someone sell me a triple heirloomed Great Long Bardiche.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tristan on May 20, 2011, 05:30:47 pm
I cannot se how much money you gain or how much money you loose have any impact on the value of a heirloom.
Neither has any sort of effect on the heirloom or the time it took you to make it.

What is important is the value of those 72 hours it takes to make a heirloom. How much cRPG gold is 72 hours of your life worth...

I voted 200k to 500k, but honestly it is probably closer to 500k to 1 mil.

Another important fact:

Right now Gold has no value. Most people have large enough reserves to use it as they please for equipment etc.
In short: As of right now we have nothing to spend gold on, that is of any use but heirlooms from other players.
This might increase the price of heirlooms.

BUT:
When strat is online and gold from cRPG will be a part of gameplay, a lot of people will consider if 30 mercenaries ain't worth more than a heirloom.

I foresee the following, only exception being how heirlooms work in strat:
Prices will be on the rise, because people have plenty of gold and nothing to spend it on.
When strat goes online we will see a price fall in heirlooms unless they have major importance in strat.

Sell heirlooms for 500k + now
Buy them back at 200k later.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: WaltF4 on May 20, 2011, 06:00:32 pm
I really want to agree with both of you, but 14 extra body armor can be a good amount of damage negation, especially when someone is wearing plate. I've never been one to think looms give you much of an advantage, even with the previous weapon looms, but it does give you an "edge". It may not be much, but extra damage is extra damage.

Using a 3x weapon versus the normal version is at least as significant as the extra rank of power strike and weapon master that you could in theory have by leveling past 31. And yes, 14 body armor is a lot. That is the difference between Sarranid Guard Armor and Black Plate.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Phazey on May 20, 2011, 07:17:27 pm
After having a talk with Vicious on teamspeak, he changed my mind. We need to nerf heirlooms, especially body armor. The difference it makes, especially if you manage to get a full heirloomed suit, is just too big.

So yeah, nerf heirlooms!  :wink:
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Lech on May 20, 2011, 07:38:30 pm
Body armor have the best heirloom atm. I feel it will be nerfed. When you'll get just +3 armor (+6 body) for full heirloom (maybe with 1 less weight, or 0.5 less weight) it will suddenly be far less imba.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Vicious666 on May 20, 2011, 07:41:56 pm
After having a talk with Vicious on teamspeak, he changed my mind. We need to nerf heirlooms, especially body armor. The difference it makes, especially if you manage to get a full heirloomed suit, is just too big.

So yeah, nerf heirlooms!  :wink:


raise your  trolling  detection skill
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Phazey on May 20, 2011, 07:48:25 pm
raise your  trolling  detection skill
Naah, you're just afraid we'll nerf your little grinder's suit to oblivion...  :twisted:
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Mustikki on May 20, 2011, 08:11:40 pm
someone sell me a triple heirloomed Great Long Bardiche.

But I won't!
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Vicious666 on May 20, 2011, 08:51:24 pm
Naah, you're just afraid we'll nerf your little grinder's suit to oblivion...  :twisted:

it's that i just dont wanna be you  :wink:
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Barbas on May 20, 2011, 09:52:46 pm
I cannot se how much money you gain or how much money you loose have any impact on the value of a heirloom.
Neither has any sort of effect on the heirloom or the time it took you to make it.

What is important is the value of those 72 hours it takes to make a heirloom. How much cRPG gold is 72 hours of your life worth...

It takes time to earn gold.  That's why it's relevant.

Hence the calculations:  Generally you would not to spend more time earning the gold to buy a heirloom than the time it would take for you to heirloom it yourself. 

You might spend a bit more if you have tons of gold in reserve - but I don't know what portion of the population has millions in reserve.  For the rest of us, these calculations help us decide:  Should I save up enough money to buy the heirloomed item I want?  Or will it be quicker for me to just level and retire enough that I can heirloom it myself? 
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Rhaelys on May 20, 2011, 11:23:32 pm
The maximum amount of gold you could gain in a single generation is actually at generation 1, because with higher generations the amount of XP you gain per tick is higher, but the amount of gold you gain per tick remains the same.


Thus, with 8,735,000 XP needed to retire: (I do not know the exact values for the last three digits, but it's inconsequential)

8,735,000 XP/1,000 XP per tick = 8,735 ticks x 50 gold = 436,750 gold

This holds regardless of multiplier, because gold increases by the same proportion that XP does. Consider the case of a perpetual 5x multiplier:

8,735,000 XP/5,000 XP per tick = 1,747 ticks x 250 gold = 436,750 gold


Now let's consider the worst case scenario.

You gain the least amount of gold when you receive maximum XP ticks, which is set to 1,450 at a x1 (generation 16).

8,735,000 XP/1,450 XP per tick = 6025 ticks x 50 gold = 301,250 gold


What was the point of this post?

I don't know.

Quoting myself.

Every problem with a number for an answer can be solved with math.

To lay down some base information I used in my calculations:

The average xp per minute is 1950.
The math to determine this is based on a 50% chance of loss each round.
Average exp per minute =   (1000 * 0.5) +  (2000 * 0.25) + (3000 * 0.12) + (4000 *.06) +  (5000 0.07)
To be exact if you want, every minute of game play you gain 1950 exp and 97.5 gold

At this rate level 31 takes exactly 76 hours for a 1st generation player.

So... it takes 76 hours of work to obtain an heirloom, but that is not the end of the story. During that time your character produces 444,620 gold.  Formula:

Heirloom_Times * (76 hours of work + 444,620 gold) + Original_item_cost = Cost_of_Heirloom

to reduce further, 76 hours also equates to 444,620 gold so

Heirloom_Times * (889,240 gold) + Original_item_cost = Cost_of_heirloom

The first time you heirloom an item it is worth to you 889,240 gold
The second is 862,562 gold
The third is 835,886 gold
So triple heir-loomed item is theoretically worth +2,587688 gold

But by observation it is clear that players value not going without armor and weapon for 76 hours at over 444,620 gold. Because of this it can be excluded from the calculations by an opportunity cost that renders it irrelevant. So really, the actual value is half of this, making the final values calculated to be:  (rounded)

1x Loom +=    445,000 gold
2x Loom +=    876,000 gold
3x Loom += 1,294,000 gold

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P.S. :  These final values are simply the value of obtaining them yourselves.  If people are not willing to pay this amount for your items then in general  it is not worth the money to sell your heirlooms.  (unless the heirloom is worthless to you like an Elders Training Sword)

I believe your numbers are slightly off. What did you use for the amount of XP needed to hit 31? It seems like you used a value of 8,892,000 XP (76 hours * 60 minutes/hour * 1950 XP/minute) which is slightly higher than actually needed.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Zergmar on May 22, 2011, 12:45:47 am
the market started to run out of gold, you can see +1 items go for 200-300k and not get sold for few days
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Tydeus on May 22, 2011, 05:00:56 pm
the market started to run out of gold, you can see +1 items go for 200-300k and not get sold for few days
Only if they're bad items. Currently there haven't been +1 looms for under 300K for a while. As I'm typing this I can tell you the only +1s for less than 300K are Well Bred horses, because the market is flooded with them. There is also a Military Pick and a Long Espada for 300K exactly. This is also the first day we've seen such low prices, since the initial opening of the market.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Xol! on May 22, 2011, 06:03:50 pm
Only if they're bad items. Currently there haven't been +1 looms for under 300K for a while. As I'm typing this I can tell you the only +1s for less than 300K are Well Bred horses, because the market is flooded with them. There is also a Military Pick and a Long Espada for 300K exactly. This is also the first day we've seen such low prices, since the initial opening of the market.

Well, that and the poor sap with the commoner's long dagger that no one wants.  Been sitting there at 200k since the day the market opened lmfao.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Kharn on May 22, 2011, 09:41:40 pm
@Rhaelys

I got that number from Vargas' website.
http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm
31   8,892,403   76:00

If he is wrong he should probably be informed.
Title: Re: What do YOU think is a reasonable price for heirlooms?
Post by: Zergmar on May 22, 2011, 10:29:35 pm
Only if they're bad items. Currently there haven't been +1 looms for under 300K for a while. As I'm typing this I can tell you the only +1s for less than 300K are Well Bred horses, because the market is flooded with them. There is also a Military Pick and a Long Espada for 300K exactly. This is also the first day we've seen such low prices, since the initial opening of the market.

Better offers disappear quickly