cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: no_rules_just_play on May 29, 2014, 10:05:06 am

Title: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on May 29, 2014, 10:05:06 am
Let's say you have 8 riding, what would be the best choice?
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Latvian on May 29, 2014, 10:09:31 am
none, mod is dеad
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Yuang on May 29, 2014, 10:10:28 am
That is a pit!
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Angellore on May 30, 2014, 01:08:59 pm
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on May 29, 2014, 10:05:06 am
Let's say you have 8 riding, what would be the best choice?
That's the problem with current devs "balancing" ideas. In single patch, they increased heavy horses requirements, decreased heavy horses armor a lot, decreased heavy horses charge a lot, and some heavy horses lost other stats. Same time they buffed most light and medium horses.

For example Eastern Warhorse:
Code: [Select]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Eastern Warhorse                      | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| gold                                               | 107306                         | 101971                        |
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 7                             |
| hit points                                         | 125                            | 131                           |
| body armor                                         | 51                             | 44                            |
| speed                                              | 41                             | 40                            |
| charge                                             | 40                             | 34                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|After patch, it not only requires 2 more riding (which is reasonable change, since just 5 riding for all heavy horses was too low imo), but -7 def, -1 speed, -6 charge, and +6 hp.

New Destrier stats (medium horse):
Code: [Select]
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
| [3] Champion Destrier                              | old                            | new                           |
|----------------------------------------------------|--------------------------------|-------------------------------|
| difficulty                                         | 5                              | 6                             |
| hit points                                         | 135                            | 150                           |
| body armor                                         | 29                             | 25                            |
| speed                                              | 44                             | 45                            |
|____________________________________________________|________________________________|_______________________________|It received +15 HP, -4 def, +1 speed, which is clear buff to me.

Comparing Arabian Warhorse and medium horses with heavy ones (but not heaviest):
Quote
Champion Arabian Warhorse 
Speed: 42
Body armor: 18
Hit points: 132
Maneuver: 50
Charge: 16

Champion Destrier 
Speed: 45
Body armor: 25
Hit points: 150
Maneuver: 44
Charge: 22
Champion Barded Warhorse 
Speed: 43
Body armor: 32
Hit points: 143
Maneuver: 44
Charge: 26
Champion Padded Warhorse 
Speed: 44
Body armor: 34
Hit points: 146
Maneuver: 43
Charge: 28
Champion War Horse 
Speed: 43
Body armor: 38
Hit points: 140
Maneuver: 43
Charge: 32
Champion Large Warhorse 
Speed: 42
Body armor: 41
Hit points: 151
Maneuver: 42
Charge: 35
Champion Eastern Warhorse 
Speed: 40
Body armor: 44
Hit points: 131
Maneuver: 44
Charge: 34
Champion Cataphract Horse 
Speed: 42
Body armor: 46
Hit points: 143
Maneuver: 41
Charge: 37
Even Arabian Warhorse (light horse) has more HP now than Eastern Warhorse (which supposed to be heavy horse). Large Warhorse has almost same HP as Destrier, Padded Warhorse and Barded Warhorses are not far away too. War Horse (I consider it as last medium horse, but it's more like in between) has just 8% armor less than Large Warhorse, while having more reasonable speed/maneuver stats.

Whoever played cav in crpg, should know horse HP is the thing which matters the most with high damage hits (arbalest, heavy xbow, long bow, high damage 2h swing, high damage pole swing, high damage throwing weapons), while armor protects mainly - but not only of course - from low damage hits (horse archers, archers with low tier bows, people with low PS or low damage weapons).
I played my heavy horse mainly to counter archers with low tier bows (like horn bows) and HAs, they were doing max 1/10th damage to my horse (in most cases not even that much). Now, with body armor decreased in heavy horses, and same time HP increased in medium horses, I see absolutely no reason to take heavy horse! Especially medium horses are much better in avoiding everything, from throwing stuff, archers, xbowmans, to other cav and aware infantry. Riding on heavy horse, which has just slightly stronger defence now than medium one, is stupid (eg. now Eastern Warhorse dies from 2 bolts from Arbalest, Destrier also dies from 2 bolts from Arbalest). Devs could just remove Large Warhorse, Cataphract Warhorse and Eastern Warhorse, as their hp, decreased body def and especially speed/maneuver abilities are terrible compared to buffed medium horses. Those 3 horses just lost their ability to survive high amount of low damage hits, so the only advantage they had over medium horses.
In case of Charger, Mamluk Horse and Plated Charger - I never really liked those horses, because of their low speed/maneuver. Now, with decreased survivability (eg. Plated Charger lost 9 HP and whole 10 armor), I don't like them even more than before.
From my point of view, far best horses now are some light and all medium ones (basically all horses in shop from Courser to War Horse). I don't understand why light and medium horses were buffed, especially their survivability, but now there is absolutely no sense to use heavier horse than War Horse.

This patch is same kind of absurd, as archery low tier bows change (their current crazy missile speed and accuracy).
If chadz wanted to show he wasn't that bad dev, by giving crpg development to complete amateur hands, his plan worked brilliantly. All those broken promises, patches which never came, destroyed builds, rollbacks, even database resets (yeah, I remember those) were nothing, comparing to what new devs are doing with this game. From one hand, it's a shame crpg ends like that, but from the other, many people can finally free themselves from long years of crpg addiction.
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Radament on May 30, 2014, 01:29:36 pm
Blame Fips  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Perverz on May 30, 2014, 02:05:41 pm
Quote from: Angellore on May 30, 2014, 01:08:59 pm
This patch is same kind of absurd, as archery low tier bows change (their current crazy missile speed and accuracy).
If chadz wanted to show he wasn't that bad dev, by giving crpg development to complete amateur hands, his plan worked brilliantly. All those broken promises, patches which never came, destroyed builds, rollbacks, even database resets (yeah, I remember those) were nothing, comparing to what new devs are doing with this game. From one hand, it's a shame crpg ends like that, but from the other, many people can finally free themselves from long years of crpg addiction.


 :!: :!: :!: :!:
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 30, 2014, 02:19:39 pm
Please leave them be, I can smell freedom. It's so close. Oh god it's so close.
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on May 30, 2014, 02:23:25 pm
Thanks angellore! I'm bad at reading stats and thos certainly helps! :)
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Riddaren on May 30, 2014, 11:42:51 pm
(click to show/hide)

Great post Angellore. It's indeed absurd changes that has been made to nerf heavy cavalry.

Not only are the heavy horses now weaker. By raising the riding requirement to 8 the rider now has 9 less strength.
3 power strike less and 9 to 15 hitpoints less (15 with +3 IF) really makes a difference.

Heavy cavalry isn't heavy cavalry anymore and I see no reason to get 8 riding and use a heavy horse other than for the looks.


Regarding the original post, it's clear that playing as a lancer on a heavy horse is not the way to go now.
Using a light lance, lance or heavy lance with only 4-5 PS is really bad and you don't want to convert too many skill points either (to get 6 PS).
Furthermore using heavy armor from horseback is shittier than ever before as well because of 9-15 hitpoints less.

So I would recommend 12/24 with lots of skills instead, including shield skill, since you will have less armor and hp.
Then use a 1H or the great lance which works perfectly with only 4PS and 0 WM.

But then again, why would you use a "heavy horse" at all? No matter the build or class, it's more worth it to stick with a 6-7 riding skill horse as it is now.

By the way, why is it that the courser and the arabian warhorse still don't have the same riding requirement?!
They are each other's opposites, aren't they?
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: BlueKnight on May 30, 2014, 11:49:26 pm
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on May 29, 2014, 10:05:06 am
Let's say you have 8 riding, what would be the best choice?
Assuming we are only talking about heavy horses, mamluk because it's tiny and still maneuverable. The rest of heavy horses are only good for riding forward...
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: the real god emperor on May 31, 2014, 12:03:19 am
But still Eastern Warhorse seems to be the best choice, am I right?
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: oreshy on May 31, 2014, 01:27:45 am
...desoxyribonukleinsaeure.
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: NJ_Legion_Icedtea on May 31, 2014, 01:46:30 am
Plated Charger? With 8 riding skill it wouldn't be the fat clumsy elephant anymore surely?
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Ronin on June 02, 2014, 12:46:56 pm
I'd say Eastern warhorse is quite good. It has the highest manuever: 42
It has the same manuever with a destrier. Has also better survival and charge. But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: STR_aD_Sargon_eqv on June 02, 2014, 05:31:06 pm
Quote from: Ronin on June 02, 2014, 12:46:56 pm
I'd say Eastern warhorse is quite good. It has the highest manuever: 42
It has the same manuever with a destrier. Has also better survival and charge. But that's just my opinion.

wrong. it has more less HP.
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Ronin on June 02, 2014, 05:34:50 pm
It has 19 less health and 19 more armor. Isn't it better?
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Joseph Porta on June 02, 2014, 05:35:55 pm
You guys should focus more on your playstyle then on min maxing!
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Sniger on June 02, 2014, 06:00:45 pm
now that the highest horse and the highest throwing has been eliminated, next is the long-bow, DGS, GLB, GLA and elegant poleaxe... no wait, thats dev class/weapons

 :lol:
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: tkn123 on June 02, 2014, 07:49:11 pm
I don't care what happened to the horses. I'm still gonna go full plate with plated charger  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: Latvian on June 02, 2014, 10:46:22 pm
Quote from: tkn123 on June 02, 2014, 07:49:11 pm
I don't care what happened to the horses. I'm still gonna go full plate with plated charger  :mrgreen:
i cant if i dont get free respec or retire :(
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: tkn123 on June 02, 2014, 11:02:17 pm
Quote from: Latvian on June 02, 2014, 10:46:22 pm
i cant if i dont get free respec or retire :(

I had to respec  :cry:
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: McKli_PL on June 03, 2014, 03:44:34 am
@No_Rules
right now r8/r7 is not a good choice, i got r7 pre patch and was playing War horse+3(got r7 coz of better maneuver and better acceleration, killing those idiots +5 abusers and get better angle for killing melee)
now i switched to r6 not even going for r7 or r8 why? its not worth it at all, less armor on horse will be just a riding target for Ha valor hunters and still loosing lot of hp on horse r7/r8(those horses got very shit hit reg eg. every pixel is just a hit for anything polearms,arrows, throwers etc) now good 'heavy' horse is Padded warhorse+3(r6) is most balanced horse good on open maps and semi-open maps, on r6 is also courser great choice for open maps with heavy lance couching strategy and avoiding Ha/archers, destrier is ok horse but still is hard to counter melee players without big exp in fighting aware 2h/polearmers, IF u gonna choose R7 well Arabian is even stronger than pre patch sick maneuver to abuse with better angle to head shot some1:) but drawback is Ha/archers and we have a lot of good archers on Eu1(and trowing Zulu sqds also:) so its ur choice to choose r7 or not.
Title: Re: what heavy cav horses are the least fucked?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on June 04, 2014, 02:59:24 pm
Thanks, I already had 24 agility so I will go to 8 riding anyway (so I have 8 riding and 8 atheletics). I bought a +3 courser, and it indeed is super fast now, but I think it lacks maneuver. It was better pre-patch ( I think) because now, in combination with that shitty lance angle it's pretty hard to hit anything, especially if they see you coming.