cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thryn on May 27, 2014, 09:01:04 pm
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First off, I'm throwing realism right out the window. Why? I'm a firm believer that gameplay > realism. We need a game to have realistic aspects, but if balance isn't there,
enjoyment would be it would fucking suck. So:
I would like to limit the number of arrows a HA can carry (instead of 3 slots of arrows, 2 slots). Most HA's run about the battlefield shootin4dayz. The harassment is too real. That is all.
Yes, I am aware that some HA's carry swords instead of 3 slots of arrows. This is for the 3 slot HA's.
In the name of Panos_the_Muted:
Discuss.
[I'll add a poll]
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well if there is that logic, why not do the same to archers, atm as an archer you can pew pew all round.
But fuck that, keep things as they are (apart from 1h cav)
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well if there is that logic, why not do the same to archers, atm as an archer you can pew pew all round.
Well, I find that most archers on the ground find a secondary weapon essential. Horse archers are so mobile that many of them do not carry other weapons, allowing them to pewpew for weeks longer than foot archers.
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Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.
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Horse archers are fine. Even if they rape me, they always have to be at least 2 against me to do anything (Talking with a shielder char, not my main), and their arrows are hilariously bouncing on every armor above 55. Honestly, if horse archers are getting nerfed, then, I gonna ask a huge nerf of heavy cavs, both lancers and 1hers since they don't delay the rounds, they win them by one hitting anyting moving, me included, whatever is the str build I use.
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Horse archer in medium armor and on a heavy horse is still pretty strong if not OP. Light horse archers have a lot to worry about though, even though cavalry can't really kill them.
As San said the problem is the high survivability. When I play HA, almost nothing can kill me even though I currently have 5 riding. Next level I'll have 8 so yeah... Other horse archers do 5-10% damage on my armor (53 total). Longbows and Xbows I need to avoid, but even against them I have a chance. I'm a really bad archer but still I get valour with my horse archer as often as I do with 1H cav. KDs are worse though cause I concentrate on the enemy cav mostly ofc. My gear costs 62-68k and I barely lose gold, due to high chance of X5.
Imo horse archers should be limited to lighter horses and forced to wear light armor. Same goes for HX as well.
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Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.
Not really though, because I have 9 riding and 15str and it still takes 2-3 hits for me to kill an HA (while I'm chasing) while it only takes them 2-3 hits with their bow to dismount me, meaning I can only win if they screw up or they are bad (which after a while they learn not to be). So what this means for me (and everyone else) is when there is even just one HA on who has it out for me (or you) I've got to spend the whole round avoiding/running away from him, because all he has to do is put 2-3 shots into my horse, dismount me and then finish me off, while I have no way to respond.
@San, look buddy your op, so don't assume just cuz you can kill some op class we can to.
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Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.
I mentioned before an idea about linking HA skill to riding skill somehow. So each point in HA reduces riding a bit which will slow them down or make them use weaker lower HP/amour horses. Not possible?
Also foot xbowers still need to be balanced better in their all around usefulness in every area. Plus 0 slot weapons are too good
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A solution might be to reduce their Ridingskill (or their equivalent of speed,acceleration and maneuver) by two (or whatever number does the job) as soon as they arm their bow. if they want to be fast and agile they have to sheat the bow again.
This might encourage other cav to chase the HA because they catch up faster or don't get shot that often.
For the realism-lovers this could be explained that you ride better when you use the reins.
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@San, look buddy your op, so don't assume just cuz you can kill some op class we can to.
Let's turn this into a San e-peen thread.
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Hell no...
This suggestion is like suggesting "Planes are OP, buff tanks with mounted AA please" in Battlefield forum. If you wanna hunt a plane, you need a fighter plane you don't have a right to whine while using tank to kill a fucking plane.
So what now just because you can't catch a class that designed to avoid being caught shall devs render them even more useless ?
Im sorry but taking away realism too much from an RPG game will turn it into a clusterfuck arcade slasher. Horse archers were OP because people were chasing em blindly, thinking they were retreating from battlefield, it's a tactic called "Sahte ricad" meaning "fake retreat" same happens in cRPG after thousand years of invention of this tactic and you suggest to fuck the class up instead of finding a solution by yourself ?
Bullshit.
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Hell no...
This suggestion is like suggesting "Planes are OP, buff tanks with mounted AA please" in Battlefield forum. If you wanna hunt a plane, you need a fighter plane you don't have a right to whine while using tank to kill a fucking plane.
1/10 see me after class
One of the worst analogies I've seen
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Ok, sorry my english isnt good, but i will try to be clair.
I did like 13 gen as HA and even if i am not the best one (we all know 2 or 3 HA that are very good) i am decent enough to be representative. My others gen was as archer and i really hated cav that why i went to HA to counter them since they are really strong
1) HA is bad in 30 to 50 % of the map because we have no space to move
2) HA is good against cav and 2 handed (a pole arm who know how to move is still really hard to hit)
3) HA have hard time against a shielder (who know how to play because the bum shot is really impredicable), agaisnt a good HX and against archer (or u need to have a secondairy weapon).
4) I always hear cav screaming against HA, but common on, we are there to kill your horse, otherwise you are on rampage and yea any HA will target you because you are a larger target and with your horse you represent point. Even there, a good armored cav can kill me in many map if i dont have the place to move, it's happen often, i always target the best player cav from other team and often i get myself killed because.. They are good. Sometime i kill them, but i mean i am not a STF even if i didnt played for 1 year and half i am still able to play (even if my aim suck)
5) How many HA do you see on top of the chart ? I play every days since the last month and it's not happ ening often on NA1, of course i can gain valour and some other too (lol very few HA are gaining vaor at the end of the round) but like cav we can do it even if we are not in a good team.
6) I am a HA and the class i hate the most is by far archer (Xbower), 2 hits and they kill my horse (not all the time of course), but if my team is good and balanced, i know they will et killed by other archers, the game is design to have a balanced team of all "class" so you can be sucessfull. Often i look at my team and i see only like 3 shielders and the other team have like 4-5 archer.... i know we are doomed. Do i want to nerf them, yea but only because they can counter me easily. Take down your Ego manbe ?
7) i played most of my gen with 18 strengh and a Mw yumi and killing a horse in 2-3 shot even a rouncy isnt possible (ok very rare ?) if it's not a frontal shot. Most of the time it's like 3-5 shots for a courser because i will be from behind even with 7-8 riding
8) Killing a player is ok, but man it take often a lot of arrows, of course not at the end of the round so some time i can kill 2 or 3 players in a row because they are all weak.
9) Yea we are hard to catch but lol man if you thing a cav can be a god and kill all other class you are wrong, like i said i get kill by class often even if i have the anti cav class.
10) Finally people should see the game as a whole and put aside they own interest. I will be honest i saw no valid complain in this post, if you remove my riding skill i will get kill by all cav, if you remove my arrows (if i want bodkin i give up already a lot of arrows), i will be uselless, if you remove HA you do like 2 years ago put cav as god
ok sorry for the bad post, i am losing connection !
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Ok, sorry my english isnt good, but i will try to be clair.
I did like 13 gen as HA and even if i am not the best one (we all know 2 or 3 HA that are very good) i am decent enough to be representative. My others gen was as archer and i really hated cav that why i went to HA to counter them since they are really strong
1) HA is bad in 30 to 50 % of the map because we have no space to move
2) HA is good against cav and 2 handed (a pole arm who know how to move is still really hard to hit)
3) HA have hard time against a shielder (who know how to play because the bum shot is really impredicable), agaisnt a good HX and against archer (or u need to have a secondairy weapon).
4) I always hear cav screaming against HA, but common on, we are there to kill your horse, otherwise you are on rampage and yea any HA will target you because you are a larger target and with your horse you represent point. Even there, a good armored cav can kill me in many map if i dont have the place to move, it's happen often, i always target the best player cav from other team and often i get myself killed because.. They are good. Sometime i kill them, but i mean i am not a STF even if i didnt played for 1 year and half i am still able to play (even if my aim suck)
5) How many HA do you see on top of the chart ? I play every days since the last month and it's not happ ening often on NA1, of course i can gain valour and some other too (lol very few HA are gaining vaor at the end of the round) but like cav we can do it even if we are not in a good team.
6) I am a HA and the class i hate the most is by far archer (Xbower), 2 hits and they kill my horse (not all the time of course), but if my team is good and balanced, i know they will et killed by other archers, the game is design to have a balanced team of all "class" so you can be sucessfull. Often i look at my team and i see only like 3 shielders and the other team have like 4-5 archer.... i know we are doomed. Do i want to nerf them, yea but only because they can counter me easily. Take down your Ego manbe ?
7) i played most of my gen with 18 strengh and a Mw yumi and killing a horse in 2-3 shot even a rouncy isnt possible (ok very rare ?) if it's not a frontal shot. Most of the time it's like 3-5 shots for a courser because i will be from behind even with 7-8 riding
8) Killing a player is ok, but man it take often a lot of arrows, of course not at the end of the round so some time i can kill 2 or 3 players in a row because they are all weak.
9) Yea we are hard to catch but lol man if you thing a cav can be a god and kill all other class you are wrong, like i said i get kill by class often even if i have the anti cav class.
10) Finally people should see the game as a whole and put aside they own interest. I will be honest i saw no valid complain in this post, if you remove my riding skill i will get kill by all cav, if you remove my arrows (if i want bodkin i give up already a lot of arrows), i will be uselless, if you remove HA you do like 2 years ago put cav as god
ok sorry for the bad post, i am losing connection !
Undo the HX reload nerf and I'll take care of your HA problem.
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Problem isn't the offensive power, but the defensive power (inability of getting caught). I am trying agi lancer builds such as 12-27 and 9-30, and once I am able to catch them, such fights became trivial. You shouldn't have to have 9 riding just to catch an HA properly, though.
Give a horseback speed penalty per HA skill point?
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Undo the HX reload nerf and I'll take care of your HA problem.
give them run :3
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actually a arrow fired against people with mail. The mail dont protect you at all. So match about realism. The only thing what would protect you is a Plate armour against arrows. there you can see that even on horseback you could shoot a longbow. so match about your bullshit.
but i was the one who suggested buffing plate armour because it had his sence. You have this ranged weapons inside the mod. So you need the defensives what where usefull. and when you dont get a plate armour you have to deal with archers like that. what ends up with the discussion of a better damaging system . Arbalest 40 meters killing zone against plate "." same counts for longbow. and all the other bows where pretty match useless. because they dont go through shields. So match to this game is fun. it was bullshit from its beginning i would like to see a better damaging system. Who would make sure that the balancing is fine. And not always that melees contesting the our point of standing. And Ranged as well because it all depends on distance. because the projectile loses all lot of energy while traveling to the enemy. So give them melee abilities as well. Neither one of the 6 points for the vote. What is on top of that thread.
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HA is op because no other class has that kind of domination on the field against other classes who simply cannot counter (HA vs. anything melee w/o shield and even shielders can't chase them down.) This class permits un-counter-able trolling via the targeting of individuals and with this most recent patch not only has their accuracy improved (meaning more hits and head shots) but so to has the strength and ability of their horses, and likely their riding skill.
What is the point of entertaining this type of play style? Everyone should be counter-able to everyone else.
I don't wanna play the
Chase
Ranged
Player
Game
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Everyone should be counter-able to everyone else.
Umm, No.
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@Simon - I'm not saying nerf damage (it already takes them like 6 arrows to do any real damage anyway), I'm just saying that they should sacrifice the amount of arrows they can use for mobility. I don't like when HA's shoot the whole round without anyone catching them. Now, if they were caught more easily, the basis of this thread would be obsolete. It's just I think my suggestion wouldn't be that taxing on implementation. On the plus side, if they freed up a slot and HA's started carrying a 2 slot, they could maybe double as light cav.
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horse achers should be removed it would make the game bettter tbh u really cant nerf their ability to be extremely op against inf no matter what you do....):
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Not really though, because I have 9 riding and 15str and it still takes 2-3 hits for me to kill an HA (while I'm chasing) while it only takes them 2-3 hits with their bow to dismount me, meaning I can only win if they screw up or they are bad (which after a while they learn not to be). So what this means for me (and everyone else) is when there is even just one HA on who has it out for me (or you) I've got to spend the whole round avoiding/running away from him, because all he has to do is put 2-3 shots into my horse, dismount me and then finish me off, while I have no way to respond.
@San, look buddy your op, so don't assume just cuz you can kill some op class we can to.
It's not about being op, anyone with a 9-10 riding build can do such a thing. But why? Your class is pretty much gimped to bumping and chasing HAs most of the time at that point, and most wouldn't want to sacrifice that on one of their main characters and instead use it as a troll STF or something.
Chasing other horses suck in this game because of the negative speed bonus, but the damage does accumulate. You have to use a medium horse because the light ones will go down in 4 hits when you're chasing a really high level one (well, before. Haven't tried the lighter ones against HA recently).
It's annoying and I understand what you mean, Thryn. Instead of being annoyed for 2 slots of arrows instead of 3, they should just be easier to catch for agi cav melee builds (that aren't crazy 9+riding, but 8 riding). Archers on the ground need to find ways to deal with slower movement, while horse ranged are typically faster than most of their cav counterparts. While less slots would help, they'll still be annoying is what I was trying to say.
I can't really think of anything other than making HA strength-based, even though it doesn't make much sense outside of gameplay. Right now, 3/4 skills: riding, HA, and WM, are all agi-based. PD doesn't need to be that high if you aren't going to use a yumi bow. Not that great of a change, either, but it makes it more difficult to have an extreme build above 8 riding. An alternative would be to just apply a straight up speed penalty. Both have their problems.
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My suggestion: now that Light Xbow is 11str, roll-back the 50% reload on horeback nerf.
EDIT: lol already posted
Undo the HX reload nerf and I'll take care of your HA problem.
It would also help to have the reload of all crossbows have two stages, so that if you are interrupted after cocking the bow, then you only have to slap in the bolt after un-stuttering, rather than start the whole process over again. NW has the code for muskets. (Or you can make the game logically consistent and have all loaded crossbows fire in a random direction when the user is hit, because apparently that causes the trigger to trip.)
Here's the problem with the HX nerf in general: It used to be possible for me to solo a decent HA, and even sometimes a GOOD HA, doing the whole Champ Arabian thing. Now it is frustratingly un-fun, because even a mediocre HA can get 1 hit out of the 4-5 shots they get in the span of the current HX reload. HA always had the shoot-faster advantage, it just wasn't crippling.
So I stopped playing the class. Nerf successful.
I know most meele just hate all ranged/cav/ranged cav, but remember the Chinaserfs: the HX who would get off their shit and die when the last 2 left.
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Yeah, HX reload isn't very fun. The base problem of horse ranged still needs to be addressed before they can be made into something better than troll classes (more fun to play/fight against, well, for melee cav at least). Sounds impossible, but at least it's a goal to eventually work towards.
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I played HX because it was fun, not because it was OP. But yeah, often it was completely OP. As long as horse ranged is in the game, they will be a trump card in some situations. It's part of the game...and I think the Flag Spawn changes have fixed it to a great degree as far as affecting the round goes. That HA only gets a minute to ride around like a tard now, not 5 min.
How about an inverse relationship between HA and effective ride speed as your speed penalty? It's something to be tested thoroughly, but my rough idea would be that a full 5 HA (11/30 HX specialist) should take your horse down "one tier" in speed. So an Arabian (40 speed) becomes like a Steppe Horse (37) and a Steppe Horse becomes slightly slower than a Sumpter (35). The less HA you have, the less deadly you are while running away at full speed, so you get more speed as part of the balance.
One problem with that is that it would be class crippling. So instead of a blanket speed nerf, the effective riding velocity could go down during the bow draw, so that HA have two choices: Run if they can, or Shoot at chaser horse (which allows chaser to quickly get to them, so better make that headshot). Further application of this idea would have the horses maneuver stat affected by HA when the bow is being drawn (or XBow shouldered).
I like choices, I don't like taking things away from players. The HX reload nerf is a good example, it took away the class viability as anti-HA, our only real competition, so it shriveled and died.
My idea to fix you, San, is to add a stamina bar. That way you have the choice between swinging your sword a lot/raising your shield or running at Terminator speeds. You don't get your AGI taken away, you instead have to think more about how to use your AGI. I'm sure highly skilled players like yourself would adapt and own.
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Yeah, that kind of thing wouldn't be much of a bother.
If flags didn't break so often, things would be a lot better.
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Do you know how hard it is to hit someone with a ranged weapon, and do damage? It's incredibly difficult to get any kills with a bow especially on horseback, that's why you hardly see any horse archers at the top of the scoreboard. If they do, it's because their pretty damn good, in the same way that two handers and polearmers top the scoreboard. This is a team game anyway, one person should not be able to beat everyone else without some sort of counter.
But with that being said, when all of the archers are on the same team is when it gets retarded. It's been suggested many times, this mod needs a class balancer.
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horse archer is retarded and broken beyond every other class..... just remove it form the game already no one wants it in anyways.... if there was a poll 90/10 favor removing it from the game.... lol chosen how can u say its easy you litteraly cant get caught and get to pew pew 3 fucking staccks of arrowss its really not that hard.....
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I think it is actually fine how it is. There are some people who do nice damage with yummi bow. And also HA with low bows. like nomad bow or horn bow to do some damage. There was a time when they didn't even make a bit damage. I think it is fine how it is. I would give them the chance to use longbow on horse as well. And would remove it maybe that you can carry to match ammo. This would maybe stop the trolling. Like you suggested at the end of the round. And also give them a buff of using an other bow.
So that everybody is HAPPY.
Another point is you can also kick poll him when he rides around Trolling. And there are also the flags who appear after some time. Maybe think your point through again.