cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Utrakil on May 15, 2014, 11:37:01 am

Title: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Utrakil on May 15, 2014, 11:37:01 am
http://www.thepcmdgazette.com/news/miami-police-kill-2-unarmed-suspects-by-shooting-disabled-car-377-times/ (http://www.thepcmdgazette.com/news/miami-police-kill-2-unarmed-suspects-by-shooting-disabled-car-377-times/)

23 officers open fire on a disabled car with two unarmed passengers.
the outcome: 377 shots fired, 2 passengers killed (only one is a suspect) and 2 cops are injured by other cops stray bullets.

These officers really earned their bad reputation.
 :lol:*me still smiling* :D
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Vibe on May 15, 2014, 11:47:22 am
plot twist: it was actually storm troopers
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 12:18:45 pm

Old but gold. Unrelated to the OP, of course, but another example of the elite ninja U.S crimefighters.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 15, 2014, 01:06:35 pm
"We gon' shoot 'uself sume barebquau' "

But seriously, that one officer who get nervous and shot making the others join in should get his firearm license suspended and put on street duty. There were probably 3 - 6 police cars following the chase but making 23 officers aim at a disabled car (no knowledge if the suspects have weapons or not) just to fire a second time when they put their arms up. Really sad that uncontrollable "retards" are put in the police force with guns who fall under too pressure.

Not to be a nationalist or something, but here in Norway police officers must do several tests every year before they can use a pistol or rifle (depending on how well they do) then they have the weapons in the trunk locked with a key they themselves have to unlock, meaning they can't draw a pistol from their belt and be nervous pussies and shoot without checking.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 01:17:10 pm
But seriously, that one officer who get nervous and shot making the others join in should get his firearm license suspended and put on street duty.
Wut? Everyone is responsible for their own shots. Cops are accountable for every shot they fire. Blaming one officer for everyone else's shooting is stupid.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Molly on May 15, 2014, 01:34:03 pm
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 15, 2014, 01:47:46 pm
Wut? Everyone is responsible for their own shots. Cops are accountable for every shot they fire. Blaming one officer for everyone else's shooting is stupid.

Do you know how much pressure is on every one of the officers in a situation like that? Of course every officer is responsible for his own actions, but it will always start with the first joint. The one officer who fell over to the pressure first is in my eyes the most guilty one. This often happens with a large number of people not communicating properly, for example WW1 and the consequences lack of communication resulted in thousands of lives lost. They are all as guilty but I'm saying that the one who fell for the pressure first made the other officers shoot. I doubt they would actually shoot if that one guy didn't slip his trigger.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Christo on May 15, 2014, 01:53:44 pm
But seriously, that one officer who get nervous and shot making the others join in should get his firearm license suspended and put on street duty. There were probably 3 - 6 police cars following the chase but making 23 officers aim at a disabled car (no knowledge if the suspects have weapons or not) just to fire a second time when they put their arms up. Really sad that uncontrollable "retards" are put in the police force with guns who fall under too pressure.

Do you know how much pressure is on every one of the officers in a situation like that? Of course every officer is responsible for his own actions, but it will always start with the first joint. The one officer who fell over to the pressure first is in my eyes the most guilty one.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 15, 2014, 01:56:35 pm
Classic reflex shooting situation+everyone around assumed a threat = supporting fire. Multiply by everyone around who fell into it, and you have a lot of firepower thrown around... in that case, without reasons.
Put a US cop or any other country cops with a gun in his hand, in the same situation (robbery+chase+showdown and no indication on armed or unarmed), you would have the same result.

I'm saying this but I still find it funny in a macabre way, how US already ends up being on the spotlight each and everytime.
No video of it btw?




they have the weapons in the trunk locked with a key they themselves have to unlock, meaning they can't draw a pistol from their belt and be nervous pussies and shoot without checking.

Obviously stupid solution that only works in 0 crime areas.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 01:56:47 pm
Do you know how much pressure is on every one of the officers in a situation like that? Of course every officer is responsible for his own actions, but it will always start with the first joint. The one officer who fell over to the pressure first is in my eyes the most guilty one. This often happens with a large number of people not communicating properly, for example WW1 and the consequences lack of communication resulted in thousands of lives lost. They are all as guilty but I'm saying that the one who fell for the pressure first made the other officers shoot. I doubt they would actually shoot if that one guy didn't slip his trigger.
No, nobody made the officers shoot but themselves. Everyone is responsible for their own trigger finger.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 15, 2014, 02:07:14 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Sums it up pretty much.  :lol:
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 15, 2014, 02:09:19 pm
Thank you Christo, that is pretty much what I meant :D
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Teeth on May 15, 2014, 03:40:01 pm
Classic reflex shooting situation+everyone around assumed a threat = supporting fire. Multiply by everyone around who fell into it, and you have a lot of firepower thrown around... in that case, without reasons.
Put a US cop or any other country cops with a gun in his hand, in the same situation (robbery+chase+showdown and no indication on armed or unarmed), you would have the same result.
If those were Dutch cops not a shot would have been fired. Murica gets bad rep like this because their law enforcement has a different and retarded mentality and many officers have terrible gun discipline.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Franke on May 15, 2014, 03:40:56 pm
Damn you Christo, I wanted to post that gif after reading this:
[...]that one officer who get nervous and shot making the others join in [...]
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 04:28:14 pm
And if it happened in France all cars would be in flames right now.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Christo on May 15, 2014, 05:28:11 pm
Damn you Christo, I wanted to post that gif after reading this:

Too fast too furious
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Life on May 15, 2014, 05:46:43 pm
You forgot to mention that the "possible suspect" was a drug addict, tried to rob a pharmacy, held a woman hostage at gunpoint, shot a cop, stole his car, and stole his gun. Then, when cops had him pinned, was not compliant with their commands to raise his hand, WAS armed and exchanged gunfire with them. Here's an article with more detail. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/10/3809575/3-officers-shot-in-northwest-miami.html
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 06:04:22 pm
He was not armed. He did not exchange gunfire with the cops. What he did beforehand doesn't excuse shooting 400 bullets at someone who's not armed.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Life on May 15, 2014, 06:22:19 pm
yeah, u know. take a hostage, shoot a cop, steal 2 cars(1 belong to the shot officer), still has the officer's gun on him and not complying with the officers. "doesnt deserve to be shot"
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 06:50:18 pm
yeah, u know. take a hostage, shoot a cop, steal 2 cars(1 belong to the shot officer), still has the officer's gun on him and not complying with the officers. "doesnt deserve to be shot"
What the fuck are you talking about? "Doesn't deserve to be shot?" Did you know that the US has courts too? The cops don't act as judge, jury and executioner... and I'm pretty sure their textbooks don't say "shoot an unarmed guy 400 times if he did something bad earlier"
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Nightmare798 on May 15, 2014, 06:54:41 pm
And if it happened in France all cars would be in flames right now.

Nah the supect would have surrendered...and the policemen...and all civilians in vicinity...

You forgot to mention that the "possible suspect" was a drug addict, tried to rob a pharmacy, held a woman hostage at gunpoint, shot a cop, stole his car, and stole his gun. Then, when cops had him pinned, was not compliant with their commands to raise his hand, WAS armed and exchanged gunfire with them. Here's an article with more detail. http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/10/3809575/3-officers-shot-in-northwest-miami.html

Sounds like fucking excuse to me. OP contains report of an eye witness who has seen something completely different than what was said in a report of a suspiciously named news company.

IMO they want to cover up the absolute failure of their police officers, as simple as that.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Moncho on May 15, 2014, 07:01:09 pm
Nah the supect would have surrendered...and the policemen...and all civilians in vicinity...
What an original joke, I have never heard it before, hur dur dur
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Nightmare798 on May 15, 2014, 07:02:49 pm
What an original joke, I have never heard it before, hur dur dur

I am glad you are entertained :)
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2014, 07:04:36 pm
Send US cops to east Ukraine, to deal with pro-russians. No one will question US cops, because they are policemen of UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Problem solved.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2014, 07:12:34 pm
yeah, u know. take a hostage, shoot a cop, steal 2 cars(1 belong to the shot officer), still has the officer's gun on him and not complying with the officers. "doesnt deserve to be shot"

"doesn't deserve trial"
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Life on May 15, 2014, 07:38:11 pm
"doesn't deserve trial"
Just another crazy drug addict dead imo.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 07:47:02 pm
And a few cops almost dead from each other's bullets...
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Life on May 15, 2014, 07:53:20 pm
And a few cops almost dead from each other's bullets...
almost dead? a leg wound and a flesh wound isn't close to being a deadly shot.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 07:58:34 pm
You're either trolling or retarded. Not sure which; the comment above is approaching levels of retardation that even I find hard to believe to be genuine...

On the off-chance you really are retarded, a bullet that wasn't aimed grazing someone's head is "not even close to being a deadly shot"?  And someone being shot in the leg, again, not aimed, isn't close to a deadly shot? It'd have been just as likely that the bullet would have hit that cop in the chest or the head seeing as, again, it wasn't aimed, so the shooter did not carefully select leg as his target, nor did the other shooter choose to only touch another cop's head with his bullet a little. It's a small miracle more cops weren't hit with so much bullets down range.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Life on May 15, 2014, 08:19:05 pm
You're either trolling or retarded. Not sure which; the comment above is approaching levels of retardation that even I find hard to believe to be genuine...

On the off-chance you really are retarded, a bullet that wasn't aimed grazing someone's head is "not even close to being a deadly shot"?  And someone being shot in the leg, again, not aimed, isn't close to a deadly shot? It'd have been just as likely that the bullet would have hit that cop in the chest or the head seeing as, again, it wasn't aimed, so the shooter did not carefully select leg as his target, nor did the other shooter choose to only touch another cop's head with his bullet a little. It's a small miracle more cops weren't hit with so much bullets down range.
if you think a leg would or a flesh would is close to fatal, then you're the retarded one.
i agree the situation was retarded, in no way should the officers be in eachother's crossfire, maybe they're the retarded ones. but they 2 officers only received minor wounds.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Molly on May 15, 2014, 08:20:38 pm
if you think a leg would or a flesh would is close to fatal, then you're the retarded one.
i agree the situation was retarded, in no way should the officers be in eachother's crossfire, maybe they're the retarded ones. but they 2 officers only received minor wounds.
I feel confident to say that you didn't get his point.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 08:21:38 pm
if you think a leg would or a flesh would is close to fatal, then you're the retarded one.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 15, 2014, 08:25:38 pm
Next time there will be a shootout, Xant will be sure to be there verifying if every surfaces in a 1km radius are properly positioned so that no bullets stray off course.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Falka on May 15, 2014, 08:28:36 pm
Next time there will be a shootout, Xant will be sure to be there verifying if every surfaces in a 1km radius are properly positioned so that no bullets stray off course.

But he's right, almost 400 bullets to stop a car and 2 wounded cops, that's just hilarious.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 15, 2014, 08:34:32 pm
Next time there will be a shootout, Xant will be sure to be there verifying if every surfaces in a 1km radius are properly positioned so that no bullets stray off course.
Oh look, it's a proper retard get-together in here. Butan the masteretard acting as if 400 bullets fired (in 20 seconds against people not shooting back) in an even ground O-shaped ambush is people being just a little out of position...
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 15, 2014, 08:58:42 pm
You obviously have proofs backing up the fact that you believe those 2 wounds have been caused by a direct shot, because, well, thats the most obvious and plausible scenario.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: AntiBlitz on May 16, 2014, 01:59:35 am
But he's right, almost 400 bullets to stop a car and 2 wounded cops, that's just hilarious.

its really not all that overwhelming, there was 23 officers, firing 377 rounds, which is around 14 rounds per person, considering they are more then likely carrying .40cal glocks, they hold 15+1.  They all fired nearly an entire magazines worth each.  So thinking about it from that perspective, a single magazine isnt really all that much from a single shooter, so its not as insane as your making it out to be.  But hey play it up, i dont see why these threads surprise anyone, we have one of these every other week or so.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 16, 2014, 05:00:34 am
its really not all that overwhelming, there was 23 officers, firing 377 rounds, which is around 14 rounds per person, considering they are more then likely carrying .40cal glocks, they hold 15+1.  They all fired nearly an entire magazines worth each.  So thinking about it from that perspective, a single magazine isnt really all that much from a single shooter, so its not as insane as your making it out to be.  But hey play it up, i dont see why these threads surprise anyone, we have one of these every other week or so.

377 rounds. Anti, that's INSANE, no matter the circumstance.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Chosen1 on May 16, 2014, 05:10:22 am
Oh boy, another anti-american thread by some bored europoors. No one cares.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: AntiBlitz on May 16, 2014, 05:11:55 am
377 rounds. Anti, that's INSANE, no matter the circumstance.

im not defending it, but its really not, and the unarmed part is kind of moot.  Im more so stating that its not as if they were reloading magazines and dumping everything they had on the belt, which is what everyone and the media attempts to portray.  So really, for a single person to not empty the magazine, its not as over done as people are making it out to be.  The only downside to this is just the amount of people firing the weapons, more so then the individual.

this sounds more hilarious then its meant to be but......it could have been worse, they fired less then a 1/3 of the ammunition they were carrying.  <--giggle please, its not a serious comment.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Smoothrich on May 16, 2014, 05:14:59 am
We keep arming our policemen with the armor and firepower of military units, but it appears they get none of the discipline, training, respect, and chain of command that military (ideally) has.

I'm going to actually agree with Leshma (ugh) and say we need to make a division of the worst/most violent cops from every major US metro and put them into a real warzone overseas. Maybe that will teach them some humility (or most likely turn into a war crime rape and pillage unit)
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Artyem on May 16, 2014, 05:16:15 am
I opened this thread and figured it was going to be the LAPD, since they're pretty much the worst police force in the country.

and then I read Miami police, lol just as bad
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 16, 2014, 07:50:17 am
It's good that Anti has showed up again to educate us that 23 police firing 14 bullets each (closer to 16, actually, a bit more) is "ok." As if firing your whole clip at something you have no idea about is fine. Yeeeeeeeep..
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Kafein on May 16, 2014, 10:03:31 am
I don't know, aren't cops supposed to have trigger discipline ?
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 16, 2014, 10:05:30 am
Oh boy, another anti-american thread by some bored europoors. No one cares.
It really isn't anti-American. There are plenty of American forums that are pissed off about this very same bit of news. It's more anti-current-american-LE.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Angantyr on May 16, 2014, 11:15:50 am
So if I criticize say Ukrainian riot police for heedlessly killing unarmed protestors I would be anti-Ukrainian? That's just preposterous.

If anything yanks should be the ones to take offense at the act (because they can help change policies).
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: HarunYahya on May 16, 2014, 11:21:04 am
Fuck the haters
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Chosen1 on May 16, 2014, 12:38:40 pm
Not anti-american, as long as your cops are shooting each other and homeless americans then we love america!

Just keep doing what you're doing. 2nd Amendment 'n' all that. (ps. i'm with ya, i reckon you need MORE guns and less training, to guarantee maximum freedom).

What? The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with this.. I'm pretty sure in most decent first-world countries the police is armed.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Switchtense on May 16, 2014, 12:40:27 pm
What? The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with this.. I'm pretty sure in most decent first-world countries the police is armed.

In the UK they aren't as far as I know.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Overdriven on May 16, 2014, 02:01:06 pm
Yeah only certain units used very occasionally are armed in the UK.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Moncho on May 16, 2014, 02:11:40 pm
It's curious because my first impression when I came was like wow, those guys are quite armed, but that was at the airport.
In Spain most policemen carry a handgun, and some bodies more, but then in the airport there is none of this:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Overdriven on May 16, 2014, 02:13:23 pm
At the airports there are often armed police it's true and in certain other high risk areas. They frequently walk round with sniffer dogs as well at airports. Otherwise it's general only armed response units.

The vast majority of police don't carry a fire arm.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 16, 2014, 02:48:21 pm
As much as some things are "US only", you should also take into account the actual criminality of the US: if you unarm policemen there, it will cause a higher demand for "special" armed units, since in some cases you do need guns. Its hard to arrest a man armed with a gun, if you dont have a gun yourself.

Both sides have pros/cons: to have wider authorized use of firearms imply more cases like the one in this thread will happen, but to restrict it will have other repercussions than the civilians dont always understand and want to live. But since its a democracy, we may have more and more people asking for stricter gun control/gun use regulation/law enforcement reform/even police disarmement, and the scenario of the OP is only a fuel to those arguments, but it doesnt take into account much of the problems related to the use of guns in the police force.

Basically, there is two extremes: we dont trust the police to handle itself and it must be reformed, disarmed or dismantled; we trust the police to handle itself and it must continue its duty within the boundaries of the law and practical considerations.

In between there is the question of how much police we want and how armed it is, and it directly influence everything. It goes from civilian police, street police, police, armed police, special police and army.
The fact that the criminals also adapt to the country police armament doesnt help decide what is best  :P


The UK example is interesting, but there is lots of points in this country situation which doesnt apply to the US and cant be used as a comparison-solution. Like the fact its an island and its border control regulation and armed border police deal with some of the problems at its doors. There is also cultural/historical differences but I'm not going to pretend I know exactly what it is  8-)
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Overdriven on May 16, 2014, 02:54:21 pm
Well I think the US is to far gone in terms of gun ownership to risk disarming the police.

As much as I would love for the US to be able to viable strip gun owners of their weapons and as a result disarm the police, doing so is simply not viable due to the number of people who will likely own a gun with no official record of it being kept.

The UK has an advantage in that gun ownership simply is not a thing bar a few criminals and in some cases for hunting. As such arming the police isn't really necessary in the day to day running of a police force.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: AntiBlitz on May 16, 2014, 03:41:51 pm
just blame the british, they made us like this, its their fault.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: AntiBlitz on May 16, 2014, 10:21:32 pm
We let you go when we realized you would never join our Rugby, Football and Cricket leagues like the rest of the Empire did, true story

lol i wouldnt want to look for bugs to play with in the grass anyways.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Bittersteel on May 17, 2014, 01:47:26 am
every time heskey, why do you do this?
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: AntiBlitz on May 17, 2014, 04:32:12 am
You could not be trained... so we began taxing you like crazy to see if you'd notice and declare independence - y'know, save us from disowning you and looking like a jerk.

Fun fact, the British Empire was created because Britain got tired of playing the Welsh teams at Football, Rugby and Cricket every single year. Trade was a hidden motive to educate and train India, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand to make badass sports teams and take part in our competitions.

i apologize, i do know of the cricket sport, i just wanted to continue my feeble troll remarks.  I unfortunately have no idea how to play it, its like golf and baseball mixed up.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Smoothrich on May 17, 2014, 06:57:45 am
Well I think the US is to far gone in terms of gun ownership to risk disarming the police.

As much as I would love for the US to be able to viable strip gun owners of their weapons and as a result disarm the police, doing so is simply not viable due to the number of people who will likely own a gun with no official record of it being kept.

The UK has an advantage in that gun ownership simply is not a thing bar a few criminals and in some cases for hunting. As such arming the police isn't really necessary in the day to day running of a police force.

The most that a typical American progressive expects our society to be able to do in the near future with guns is pass very reasonable gun regulations, mostly enforcing and tightening up loopholes in laws which exist, and getting rid of mass murder accessories like extended magazines, automatic weapons (already banned to civilians, but many legal semi-automatics can be modifed to be automatic), creating more paper trails and background checks for second gun reselling, etc.

What's sad is that when some autistic madman shot up an elementary school a year or two ago, there was the most momentum yet to get some sort of reform passed. Our president, members of Congress who have recently survived assassinations (Gabrielle Giffords), and countless families who lost children or parents in senseless shootings, millions of Americans and a majority of popular support, all for some common-sense change. Considering Adam Lanza took a bunch of firearms from his mother's unlocked safe, before killing her and 20+ children, you'd think restrictions on safekeeping guns would be one of them. By the time it got to the Senate floor (the more prestigious and sane of our two houses of Congress), the bill was nothing but making sure background checks were in place at all times to precent children and mentally ill from buying guns. Most Republicans, and even some Democrats in gun-friendly states, filibustered it, so it couldn't even get out of Senate with a real vote. Our president raged on live TV immediately after, was funny. The following year, guns were exclusively deregulated on the federal level even more.

Tons of people were outraged, but the gun-nuts I know all have a philosophy that any single law passed regulating guns is a slippery slope to repealing the 2nd Amendment (which says "well-regulated" right in it lol) and banning all gun ownership, thus causing some insane outrage.

Really its fucking frustrating. Also I'm an anti-gun progressive and I'm wanting to buy a handgun myself because most American cities are so shitty and overrun with violence and crime, you start to feel like you need a gun just to protect yourself. I just don't want crazies or criminals with guns.. which leads to every local small town police force having AFV's, M4's, body armor, drones, broad wiretapping.. then you run the chance of being murdered by a gangbanger, methhead, or a cop who assumes you are one of those and opens fire.. ugh
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Tagora on May 17, 2014, 07:29:48 am
Guns go bang.  I like bang.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Jeade on May 17, 2014, 08:16:24 am
Really its fucking frustrating. Also I'm an anti-gun progressive and I'm wanting to buy a handgun myself because most American cities are so shitty and overrun with violence and crime, you start to feel like you need a gun just to protect yourself. I just don't want crazies or criminals with guns.. which leads to every local small town police force having AFV's, M4's, body armor, drones, broad wiretapping.. then you run the chance of being murdered by a gangbanger, methhead, or a cop who assumes you are one of those and opens fire.. ugh

Holy fuck, did I just agree with Smoothrich?

Spot on, man. I own a few myself, but California isn't very friendly to carriers.
Strongly considering bringing a pistol back from the far-more-tolerant Missouri just to keep in the house.

About the whole "slippery slope" thing, it drives me insane.
Maybe I just attract the crazy people, but everyone I know who is "pro-gun" seem to be the people who think background checks will spiral the country into N.azi Germany.
The other people I know who proudly open carry are the rowdy vigilante type.

Egh.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 17, 2014, 08:39:31 am
(which says "well-regulated" right in it lol)
Yes, just like Lord of the Rings says "einstein is God" if you take letters out of context. The well regulated part is about a militia, and after it comes the important part:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated means "disciplined" or "trained."
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Nightmare798 on May 17, 2014, 02:44:44 pm
Guns go bang.  I like bang.

This pretty much sums up gun ownership I think.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Oberyn on May 17, 2014, 03:45:55 pm
Really its fucking frustrating. Also I'm an anti-gun progressive and I'm wanting to buy a handgun myself because most American cities are so shitty and overrun with violence and crime, you start to feel like you need a gun just to protect yourself. I just don't want crazies or criminals with guns.. which leads to every local small town police force having AFV's, M4's, body armor, drones, broad wiretapping.. then you run the chance of being murdered by a gangbanger, methhead, or a cop who assumes you are one of those and opens fire.. ugh

Yeah that's the real crux of the issue, the increasing militarization of police forces didn't happen in a vacuum. When stuff like the North Hollywood shoutout happened, police weren't equipped to respond to it. I can understand why certain departments try so hard to instill a sense of complete paranoia and disproportionate response in their trainees. Because it's their lives that are on the line. Unfortunately when you treat civilians as potential death threats at the slightest provocation you start blurring the line between police and military occupation force.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 17, 2014, 03:47:53 pm
Put them all in jail. What a fucking joke.

In Brisbane last year a guy was walking around a mall in the centre of the city with a hand gun. About 15k people were in the area at the time. The police disarmed him with out any shots fired, or pepper spray, or tasers. They just talked him down over like two hours.

This Miami shit is fucking horrific.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Oberyn on May 17, 2014, 03:51:40 pm
Yes, just like Lord of the Rings says "einstein is God" if you take letters out of context. The well regulated part is about a militia, and after it comes the important part:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Well regulated means "disciplined" or "trained."

I've always interpreted that as the right to bear and keep arms being contingent on the context of a militia. i.e that the important part of the amendment was that gun ownership is necessary only insofar as it leads to the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for the defense of the state, not because Average Joe has the inalienable god-given right to go out in the desert to shoot at car wrecks with his buddies while drinking a sixpack. As far as I see it as soon as the US started mantaining a standing army the entire point of the second amendment became moot.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Kafein on May 17, 2014, 03:58:45 pm
I've always interpreted that as the right to bear and keep arms being contingent on the context of a militia. i.e that the important part of the amendment was that gun ownership is necessary only insofar as it leads to the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for the defense of the state, not because Average Joe has the inalienable god-given right to go out in the desert to shoot at car wrecks with his buddies while drinking a sixpack. As far as I see it as soon as the US started mantaining a standing army the entire point of the second amendment became moot.

They would tell you that the point of the second amendment became clear when the US started mantaining a standing army.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Oberyn on May 17, 2014, 04:00:44 pm
And that it obviously failed spectacularly, if it was supposed to prevent the creation of a standing army. Could it possibly be the Founding Fathers were not angels filled with divine enlightenment, but just faillable men? GASP
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Kafein on May 17, 2014, 04:13:12 pm
And that it obviously failed spectacularly, if it was supposed to prevent the creation of a standing army. Could it possibly be the Founding Fathers were not angels filled with divine enlightenment, but just faillable men? GASP

Preposterous ! Such father figures, literally engraved in the rock of our minds, are above all errors and anachronisms.

Also I don't think it was supposed to prevent a standing army, but rather to maintain "the people" able to take arms against the army. In context, a standing army would be considered occupation more than anything, even if called American.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 17, 2014, 04:17:50 pm
The 2nd amendment was not made to prevent a state army from being created, but to have a ready force to fight against the state, putting power into the hands of the common man.

Anti-gun and pro-gun lobbies both use fail arguments :
guns = people die so ban
no guns = dictatorship so dont regulate

Both try to make the US people believe in a scenario that isnt going to happen : having the right to bear arms doesnt mean everyone kill each other all the time at the slightest whim; nor if we regulate the right to bear arms it will instantly create a fondation for a fascist government.


As long as there is a possibility for the lawful citizens to buy and own guns, there will be a sizeable force ready to take arms if the state is in danger from within or without.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 17, 2014, 04:18:38 pm
I've always interpreted that as the right to bear and keep arms being contingent on the context of a militia. i.e that the important part of the amendment was that gun ownership is necessary only insofar as it leads to the maintenance of a well-regulated militia for the defense of the state, not because Average Joe has the inalienable god-given right to go out in the desert to shoot at car wrecks with his buddies while drinking a sixpack. As far as I see it as soon as the US started mantaining a standing army the entire point of the second amendment became moot.
That's not US's Supreme Court's interpretation, though.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 18, 2014, 05:36:15 pm
A constitution is a general approach of how the country works. Laws are where you can tinker with firearm availability. Even in countries where there is no such amendment, there has been mass murders, there is no fail-safe way to avoid them, even if guns are banned and there is only a battered black market available.

Also take into account the fact that the existing ready militia is a deterrent, not only an active tool.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 18, 2014, 10:04:09 pm
In that case consider the lack of guns in the UK as a deterrent too, cos i wouldnt consider our government to be more tyrannical or freedom-hating than your average.

And saying 'We cant 100% stop murder so why even bother?' i mean.... wut? Crime is a numbers game and making your country as safe as possible should be a goal everyone shares. If guns are publicly available then a lot of people die, that isn't theoretical it's gun-crime statistics.

In the UK you can't just go and buy a gun cos you've had a bad day. They're still probably available on the black market, but that already rules out a large % of potential buyers. In theory you could still be shot by someone who got a gun illegally in the UK, in reality it doesnt really happen and you're probably in more danger of strangling yourself putting your socks on. The worst we get are shotguns that farmers own, weapons that are kinda hard to conceal.

If i had kids in the US i'd wanna homeschool them, on the offchance that some deranged retard decides to go have a shooting spree, killed by a sweaty nerd is the least dignified way to go (Yes, know i know, it COULD happen anywhere, but newflash it DOESNT happen anywhere else, only in that dirtbag country). Then put up with the insult of having the outraged country demand more guns to make 'murrica safer. I like Americans, it's a shame they care more about a constitution than they do about their own lives and the lives of their families.

The majority of kills come from the semi-auto handguns. Rifles and shotguns are not the main contributors of the problem. I'd also say that school shootings have only become more popular due to Columbine and the way the Media handles it. These creeps subconsciously know that this is an act that will put them on the news as villains for may days and thus do it.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 18, 2014, 10:25:14 pm
The media is responsible too, there's no doubt of that. And saying it's just guns would be oversimplifying it, but the fact remains that it wouldnt be possible if guns were controlled better.

Again, there's no easy solution cos there are already so many in circulation. If you were starting again from scratch it would be simpler.

Know how many "school massacres" we had before 1990? 0. But after the "Columbine Massacre" we have had 5 "Massacres" since then. (though it looks like there has been)

Also, not very sure of the validity but:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund

Apparently both Germany and Great Britain have(had actually) the worst Elementry school shootings. Only Newton beat those. Actually, the Newtown shooting was a case  of the gun control laws working as intended. The mother was a  Proper and safe gun owner. The Gun store refused to sell the gun citing bad history and some mental isssues. The problem was that the mother doesn't expect her own son to kill her and then do that and that is a fault of mental illness.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Xant on May 18, 2014, 10:31:11 pm
Copycats are a massive problem. We had two school shootings within a year of each other, after never having any real ones before.
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Oberyn on May 18, 2014, 10:34:43 pm
Know how many "school massacres" we had before 1990? 0. But after the "Columbine Massacre" we have had 5 "Massacres" since then. (though it looks like there has been)

Also, not very sure of the validity but:
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/335739/facts-about-mass-shootings-john-fund

Apparently both Germany and Great Britain have(had actually) the worst Elementry school shootings. Only Newton beat those. Actually, the Newtown shooting was a case  of the gun control laws working as intended. The mother was a  Proper and safe gun owner. The Gun store refused to sell the gun citing bad history and some mental isssues. The problem was that the mother doesn't expect her own son to kill her and then do that and that is a fault of mental illness.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
Title: Re: US cops always worth a laugh
Post by: Butan on May 18, 2014, 11:16:12 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

School shooting =!= mass murders who happened in schools.
Also mass murder spree didnt always happen in schools.
(most of the events related in this link have only 1 or 2 victims, hardly mass murders)



We can compare numbers and frequency and damages done by mass murders relative to the soil it happened on, but the fact is it happens world-wide, with or without strict gun control.


I still agree with HESKEY, we can reduce the numbers of victims. The 2nd amendment has a responsability in the grand scheme of things, but it would be a mistake to say it is the only parameter in question.
There is a lot of things to do in favor of less gun victims without modifying the US constitution.