cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: arowaine on April 24, 2014, 02:30:48 am
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i would like to have people opinion on that matter. I personally found 1hand really hard to play latetly and would like to have everyone tips/opinion about 1hand/shield so many change has been made lately by tydeus(2hander hero). Pls help me to improve my play style/skill thanks you.
atm using elite simitar/nuwidao/side sword + knigthly kite shield
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With one-hand, the V key is your friend. Nudge folks. With polearm, the only real useful nudge is with a pike or longspear to get people out of your face. With two-hand...uh, yeah I wouldn't nudge.
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IMO you need to just drop the shield for melee. 1h swashbuckler style has been a good build since the patch awhile ago that fixed their stab animation. Not only will you be faster than all your opponents, but it makes the game much more rewarding than using a shield.
I am not entirely against shield, they are great for defending tight spaces and blocking ranged (bundles of sticks), however using one in melee is not as good as it used to be.
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There are a few changes coming for 1hers. Not the changes that I think really need to happen, but some goods things in store, specifically a more usable 1h right swing. You should be able to use it in close quarters without having to worry about it always getting caught on something. It should be about as good as the left swing in tight spaces/when fighting with allies nearby.
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1h is fine! It's only harder when you get overwhelmed with opponents. You just need to play more!
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There are a few changes coming for 1hers. Not the changes that I think really need to happen, but some goods things in store, specifically a more usable 1h right swing. You should be able to use it in close quarters without having to worry about it always getting caught on something. It should be about as good as the left swing in tight spaces/when fighting with allies nearby.
first they ruined 1h stab now they'll ruin my beloved right swing. rip 1h
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There are a few changes coming for 1hers. Not the changes that I think really need to happen, but some goods things in store, specifically a more usable 1h right swing. You should be able to use it in close quarters without having to worry about it always getting caught on something. It should be about as good as the left swing in tight spaces/when fighting with allies nearby.
Does this mean the right swing will have less reach?
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There are a few changes coming for 1hers. Not the changes that I think really need to happen, but some goods things in store, specifically a more usable 1h right swing. You should be able to use it in close quarters without having to worry about it always getting caught on something. It should be about as good as the left swing in tight spaces/when fighting with allies nearby.
This sounds like poop, right swing should get stuck in crowded areas. Left and overhead are the up close & personal attacks while right swing is for that extra reach.
Changes like this dumb down the game and negate any reason to use the appropriate swing for the given circumstance.
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Does this mean the right swing will have less reach?
Same reach.
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1h + shield is pretty good if you spam the neutral nudge to walk past enemies inside a group, usually causes them to teamwound each other.
You can do the same with shove nudges/1h attack nudge/2h overhead nudge, but the shield neutral nudge seems to be the most forgiving on misses since it has a fast recovery, and you'll always block if you're facing the right direction.
Not a big fan of right swing as it is right now, I mostly use left swing/overhead.
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This sounds like poop, right swing should get stuck in crowded areas. Left and overhead are the up close & personal attacks while right swing is for that extra reach.
Changes like this dumb down the game and negate any reason to use the appropriate swing for the given circumstance.
No, first off one handers should excel in close quarters and right swing should be usable in those situations. Pole has S key and two hand has those awesome stabs.
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1h with shield sux,i changed to polearms. Too weak,to slow when fighting 2h agi heroes.
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I've played 1h agi shielder for a bit with 4PS with a niuwedao, that shit good
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shields are garbage.
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atm using ... + knigthly kite shield
Try 3kg shield like Knightly Kite Shield :wink: - it makes your 1h more smooth + better control / higher chance for sweetspot.
For that I recommend medium armor and Arabian Guard Sword (1.9 kg - almost no glance)
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Arrowaine everytime i fight or see you ur too plain u need to add in some massive feinting or holds and you would destroy!
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Playing on my 1h and shield STF is easier than my lvl 34 2h sometimes. I don't see how you can have trouble when you are also a high level shielder. I think you should try using different weapons.
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i can't really say much about 1h with shield because its 3 atm lol at level 33
1h is still the hardest class to use melee wise due to its damage. Now this doesn't include OP weapons like elite scim/ speed over101 gear.
If you use anything else expect to have trouble attacking when outnumbered (Depending on shield too)
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(1.9 kg - almost no glance)
wat
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Im having a shitload of trouble too, ive been using a paramerion with an elite cav shield and i just cant seem to be able to do shit. It might just be cause the sword is slow as fuck and predictable, but still i remember being able to spam with an arabian cav sword not too long ago
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1 handers are great. Even with my 138 wpf they are super fast and people seem to get the wrong block more than with either pole or 2 hand. The overhead is possibly the best overhead in the game. All the animations have their uses and left/overhead is a head magnet. Because they hit fast you can use holds more than you can with 2 hand or pole which add to the damage. Held attacks that naturally hit the head do some pretty decent damage even if you have lower base damage than 2 hander or poles.
Then you add the shield and you have some extra versatility depending on your situation. Near the end of the round the shield will save your life, or if you want to stay active with lots of ranged ahead. In a melee it allows you to completely focus on offence since there is less risk involved. There are pro's and cons to manual block though. Sometimes its better than a shield, sometimes not
Don't think I like the idea of changing right swing. Its good as it is, don't think we need to make it so you don't think about which attack type to use
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Get a long reaching sword and right swing away.
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I'll PM you some tips.
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Even when playing as a 1h shielder with only 35 wpf, a spathion, and a heavy round shield, I find it to be quite effective. Yes I am considerably slower at swinging compared to most other classes (most likely due to having a heavy shield, slow 1h, and almost no wpf) but that is something that can easily be helped by the use of footwork. I have seen countless dedicated shielders able to double swing against even the quickest of agi builds by using proper footwork (and left swing spam). In my opinion, 1h shielders have a unique advantage when feinting, and even with my slow speed feint spamming proves to be massively effective against most enemies, even if I use repetitive movements. Currently I really don't see anything wrong with the right swing after the last buff that sped it up ever so slightly. It gives great, often under-estimated, reach and isn't too slow or anything. This buff is unnecessary and coming entirely out of left field.
I'll PM you some tips.
Super secret 1h shielder sorcery, too good to be allowed to become public knowledge!
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1h/shield a couple years ago was all about left swing spam with a scimitar or similar. That tactic isn't the most effective anymore; now it's all about:
-Spam dat neutral nudge, it really messes up people's rhythm and does serious damage to low armor people
-Use your Side Sword, hold a stab, but aim it to your left of your target like you are going to stab someone else. Then drag the stab to your right into them. It looks stupid, but 2h and pole live off abusing stabs also, so join the club.
-Spin overhead is the new left swing. Most people won't reliably block them. Doesn't work well with 100+ cm swords (they get stuck in the ground and stun you)
Sideswings in general (all melee types) are much weaker now since the sweetspot changes, unless you are using a blunt or pierce weapon or fighting someone in low armor. So you basically should play your 1h char like it's a 2d polearm. I'll go hours without doing a right swing, so I don't really care what devs do to it. Stab has more reach, more damage, and is faster anyway. You just have to be more mindful of glances and stun.
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:l
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1h/shield a couple years ago was all about left swing spam with a scimitar or similar. That tactic isn't the most effective anymore; now it's all about:
-Spam dat neutral nudge, it really messes up people's rhythm and does serious damage to low armor people
-Use your Side Sword, hold a stab, but aim it to your left of your target like you are going to stab someone else. Then drag the stab to your right into them. It looks stupid, but 2h and pole live off abusing stabs also, so join the club.
-Spin overhead is the new left swing. Most people won't reliably block them. Doesn't work well with 100+ cm swords (they get stuck in the ground and stun you)
Sideswings in general (all melee types) are much weaker now since the sweetspot changes, unless you are using a blunt or pierce weapon or fighting someone in low armor. So you basically should play your 1h char like it's a 2d polearm. I'll go hours without doing a right swing, so I don't really care what devs do to it. Stab has more reach, more damage, and is faster anyway. You just have to be more mindful of glances and stun.
I would listen to Phew his birth certificate shows he was born using a knightly kite shield and a military hammer.
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I would listen to Phew his birth certificate shows he was born using a knightly kite shield and a military hammer.
When has he ever used that?
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When has he ever used that?
I spent like a year using military hammer when they first added it, back when siege was actually populated and you could run around clonking people on the head a midst the chaos. Now you're lucky to have another human on siege to duel with, so I use swords mostly. The Danish greatsword was the FOTM back then, so the military hammer was actually fast by comparison. Now it seems as slow as a Long Maul.
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I will give you one word of advice. Do not stop playing, and most importantly enjoy yourself.
People here might go far as to tell you to drop shield completely if you want any kills, just don't listen to these people. They are extreme to their gameplay and do not understand why people want shields. Even if you can manually block. Do whatever you notice is making a difference, I'm new. I do this too, and it helps me a lot.
Backpedal and spam stab, it will work on idiots. Try to be unpredictable. Use all of your attack directions etc. Do not forget to nudge, but you must time it. Use your shield as a weapon, have atleast 5 Shield Skill. NO lower.
I recommend: Any norman shields, Kite Shield, Heavy Heater Shield.
But use whatever feels good to you, that's the most important part. Also be annoying, circle people with your shield up when your teammates are around. They will get confused and open their backs to a 2hander whom will probably 1hit them. If you want super agressive build, then you will just learn from experience like all things in life.
Try going for REACH in weapons. 1handers are usually short, reach will put you on a new level. You will have more stab power, more control, you will be able to sometimes right swing without any risk. Seriously, Long Arming Sword, Italian Sword and probably many others. Just use anything about 85 reach.
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I will give you one word of advice. Do not stop playing, and most importantly enjoy yourself.
Arowaine is an old-timer who probably hasn't played much throughout the recent changes. 1h is very strong right now, it just requires exploiting different mechanics than it used to. You used to be able to rely on left swing wizardry, now you have to abuse neutral nudge, stabs, and spin overheads.
It's sad that improving in cRPG is mostly a matter of abusing the exploits du jour, but c'est la vie.
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I spent like a year using military hammer when they first added it, back when siege was actually populated and you could run around clonking people on the head a midst the chaos. Now you're lucky to have another human on siege to duel with, so I use swords mostly. The Danish greatsword was the FOTM back then, so the military hammer was actually fast by comparison. Now it seems as slow as a Long Maul.
Ah, figured it musta been from back in the day. There are very few names that I actually recall from those times, let alone gear loadouts. If I ever made an xbow alt, I would definitely name it in honor of Pigeontooth (or was it Pigeonteeth??... shit) and wear his gear loadout. For some reason I remember his quite vividly. Anyone else other than good ole autoblocking carebear, nope. I think I had a very low IQ back in the day.
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It should be possible to stab under or over the shield. That is the most effective way to use a shield. No one would lower a shield to strike a blow or to stab, you would be giving up your most valuable defensive asset.
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It should be possible to stab under or over the shield. That is the most effective way to use a shield. No one would lower a shield to strike a blow or to stab, you would be giving up your most valuable defensive asset.
If that were the case I would make an agility dagger shielder and stab you until you regret your decision.
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If that were the case I would make an agility dagger shielder and stab you until you regret your decision.
Not if I stabbed you back. It'd even out.
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Not if I stabbed you back. It'd even out.
Fight bundle of sticksry with bundle of sticksry!
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As a long time 1h shielder I have noticed a somewhat sizable increase in glances lately. This could be due to my rusty footwork after a few gens as cav, but a weapon weight increase to reduce glancing would be a nice rebalance since we already suffer from the lowest melee damage. Another possible solution would be to adjust the wpf point-point value(how much you put in to get out.) For example I use 5 wpf points and get 1 point in 1h prof rather than 6 wpf for 1point. This would help rebalance shielder since it has one of the largest varieties of skills behind some of the cav builds. These buffs should be only small adjustments, shielder doesn't need all that much help.
I don't really like major adjustments to animations since often times the game mechanics can get messed up. Animation adjustments can also lead to a swing becoming overpowered which might result in a counter buff leaving the class worse off than when they started.
As for playing style, I'd suggest a somewhat methodical entree to test your opponent. If you're using a long one hander try to bait the enemy into charging so you can stab them early off. Follow this by trading a few one for one blows to test for spamming and size up your opponents fighting ability. At this point I like to feint and attempt fancy footwork(It's rusty) while trying to strike significant blow with overheads or stabs, slashing with a long 1h does some damage but most players are better at blocking them so it's really just useful for a combo or batting them around.
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As a long time 1h shielder I have noticed a somewhat sizable increase in glances lately. This could be due to my rusty footwork after a few gens as cav, but a weapon weight increase to reduce glancing would be a nice rebalance since we already suffer from the lowest melee damage. Another possible solution would be to adjust the wpf point-point value(how much you put in to get out.) For example I use 5 wpf points and get 1 point in 1h prof rather than 6 wpf for 1point. This would help rebalance shielder since it has one of the largest varieties of skills behind some of the cav builds. These buffs should be only small adjustments, shielder doesn't need all that much help.
I don't really like major adjustments to animations since often times the game mechanics can get messed up. Animation adjustments can also lead to a swing becoming overpowered which might result in a counter buff leaving the class worse off than when they started.
As for playing style, I'd suggest a somewhat methodical entree to test your opponent. If you're using a long one hander try to bait the enemy into charging so you can stab them early off. Follow this by trading a few one for one blows to test for spamming and size up your opponents fighting ability. At this point I like to feint and attempt fancy footwork(It's rusty) while trying to strike significant blow with overheads or stabs, slashing with a long 1h does some damage but most players are better at blocking them so it's really just useful for a combo or batting them around.
long espada 2 hard
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I have not played shielder since the patch that nerfed very high agi/shield skill builds, but I did a level 32 gen as 18/24 shielder a while ago and loved it. High agility shielders can and should play offensively. Your athletics and crazy high wpf (with already above-average weapon speed) allow for some very skilled and rewarding footwork. You can weave through blobs of enemies with ease, and after they hit each other hit them in the back. Nudges and kicks aren't even needed, you can beat 2H and pole users to the swing every time and stay within super close range so their long weapons glance and your short reach weapon always hits.
Strength shielders do better as defensive support. I wouldn't recommend going below 15 agi/5 shield skill though. You try to draw attention to yourself so teamates can get a hit on the enemy. If they attack you, just defend and nudge when you can. If they turn away for even a second, an overhead swing (or stab, if you weapon is a stabby one) will cripple or kill them. Fancy footwork isn't really possible, but nudging and backing away is very safe and lets your allies hit the stunned enemy. Play defensively and support your balls-to-the-wall offense teamates.
Shielding an archer or crossbowman on your team is not only courteous and historically accurate, but will also help your team a bunch. When archers or crossbowers can draw/reload without strafing and hiding behind terrain, they will shoot more often and more accurately. They will also be grateful and seek you out in later rounds if the two of you pull it off.
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I will give you one word of advice.
[a lot of words]
lol
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I used to really enjoy 1h without shield. It obviously lacked some damage compared to being a 2h, but I loved the animations, the speed and the right swing gives you enough reach to do well in battle. Nowadays many 2h have gotten big speed increases while 1h didn't. Using a 95 speed Greatsword with 28p, 40c and 120 length does more damage, has more reach and actually feels faster than a 98 speed Knightly Arming Sword. Or a 96 speed Flambard. Or a 97 speed Miaodao.
This is the k/d I have gotten using a variety of 1h weapons without a shield, granted this character only just reached level 32
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This is what I have gotten using a variety of 2h, with a character that just reached 33.
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Not saying this is entirely representative for anything, but I think I am fairly decent at both and for me personally this shows that 2h are just much better weapons. Of course a shield is a huge deal, but is it 0.6 k/d after taking into account the decreased movement speed, added costs, less skill points for IF and WM and the slower blocking? I feel that compared to current 2h speeds, some speed increases for 1h are not unreasonable. Many non 1h weapons have speeds in the 1h range now and 1h just lost its speed edge completely. I used to love the KAS and NCS swords and they used to be fast, but compared to the faster swords like the Elite Scimitar they are absolutely garbage now, simply because they lack speed when all your opponents have become much faster.
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I used to really enjoy 1h without shield. It obviously lacked some damage compared to being a 2h, but I loved the animations, the speed and the right swing gives you enough reach to do well in battle. Nowadays many 2h have gotten big speed increases while 1h didn't. Using a 95 speed Greatsword with 28p, 40c and 120 length does more damage, has more reach and actually feels faster than a 98 speed Knightly Arming Sword. Or a 96 speed Flambard. Or a 97 speed Miaodao.
This is the k/d I have gotten using a variety of 1h weapons without a shield, granted this character only just reached level 32
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This is what I have gotten using a variety of 2h, with a character that just reached 33.
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Not saying this is entirely representative for anything, but I think I am fairly decent at both and for me personally this shows that 2h are just much better weapons. Of course a shield is a huge deal, but is it 0.6 k/d after taking into account the decreased movement speed, added costs, less skill points for IF and WM and the slower blocking? I feel that compared to current 2h speeds, some speed increases for 1h are not unreasonable. Many non 1h weapons have speeds in the 1h range now and 1h just lost its speed edge completely. I used to love the KAS and NCS swords and they used to be fast, but compared to the faster swords like the Elite Scimitar they are absolutely garbage now, simply because they lack speed when all your opponents have become much faster.
I can't fucking wait to to reach my level 33 build as a pure 1h, man, Spent nearly half a year at 34 and said fuck it at 35, I'm so ready to be a high strength pure 1h with 1 shield skill to deter ranged. Damn, it'll be so sick.
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patch that nerfed very high agi/shield skill builds
What? When? You just mean the re-working of shield skill for no more invincible shields? Not entirely a nerfing of shielders...
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Kind of pointless comparing weapons like German GS to 1 hand w/ shield without looking at what a shield and the different animations bring to the table. There is a lot more to a team game than KPD.
A shielder has a much bigger opportunity to support his team in ways that a 2 hander can't. You can fight better with multiple team mates around you as you won't glance as much and you will stop team hits easier. You can make shield walls. Fight more where theres ranged enemies around. Clutch a round much better at the end (a 2 hander will get shot half the time). You can attack ranged easier. Distract enemies and they can tunnel vision on your shield. Etc
The actual weapon is 1 or 0 slot. This is a huge deal when it comes to balancing the effectiveness of the weapon by itself. They are already too strong when you look at what you can do with the other slots with or without a shield
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Well, my role as a 1h without shield is very similar to my role as a 2h, which makes this comparison reasonably fair. From a weapon versus weapon point of view 2h outperforms 1h. Of course it should, but I think this is too big of a margin to be compensated by the shield. I used to think 1h was as good as 2h in a duel, but that is definitely not the case anymore. If the average shielder meets the average 2h, the average shielder is at a big disadvantage I'd say.
A shielder has a much bigger opportunity to support his team in ways that a 2 hander can't. You can fight better with multiple team mates around you as you won't glance as much and you will stop team hits easier.
2h have a dual role as excellent duel weapons and functioning as a support polearm with the 2h stab. 80% of my attacks are stabs if I am surrounded by teammates as a 2h, it is awlpike long and so easy to aim and curve around teammates.
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but there are still many advantages to shielders, the ability to block any attack direction with no worries what direction it is, shielder is so good when you are being ganked, easiest out of all the classes to win in those situations.
It still has really good output damage, well when i have played shielder it has.
There is nothing more annoying than a shielder who turtles when you play as a 2h weapon that does not break shields, the aim of battle is to kill as quickly and many people as possible.
Shielders have great survivability on eu1 and strat.
So before you look at all the shortcoming of shielder look at the positives as well. Each class has its different role on the battlefield.
Well, my role as a 1h without shield is very similar to my role as a 2h, which makes this comparison reasonably fair. From a weapon versus weapon point of view 2h outperforms 1h. Of course it should, but I think this is too big of a margin to be compensated by the shield. I used to think 1h was as good as 2h in a duel, but that is definitely not the case anymore. If the average shielder meets the average 2h, the average shielder is at a big disadvantage I'd say.
2h have a dual role as excellent duel weapons and functioning as a support polearm with the 2h stab. 80% of my attacks are stabs if I am surrounded by teammates as a 2h, it is awlpike long and so easy to aim and curve around teammates.
2h's are specialist duelling weapon so if a shielder does meet a 2h 1v1, i would expect the 2h to win, plus the average 2h is better than the average shielder in c-rpg.
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Im not the greatest player but i think shielder isnt as bad as some seem to think. And u really dont have to spam stabbing, nudging etc to perform well.
Once i got the advise from burrick to pick up a wooden sword to easier learn the sweetspots so i would glance less. That training helped me alot :)
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Different classes have different strengths and different weaknesses, that's why this game is interesting :P
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Well, my role as a 1h without shield is very similar to my role as a 2h, which makes this comparison reasonably fair. From a weapon versus weapon point of view 2h outperforms 1h. Of course it should, but I think this is too big of a margin to be compensated by the shield. I used to think 1h was as good as 2h in a duel, but that is definitely not the case anymore. If the average shielder meets the average 2h, the average shielder is at a big disadvantage I'd say.
2h have a dual role as excellent duel weapons and functioning as a support polearm with the 2h stab. 80% of my attacks are stabs if I am surrounded by teammates as a 2h, it is awlpike long and so easy to aim and curve around teammates.
I just wanted to add that things change a lot when we are talking about top players using 1h and top players using 2h.
During the tournament, the only player that killed Atze more than 2 times was Hagur (1h) who killed Atze 5 times. I don't think that he'd perform any better as 2h. It just seems that your actions as 1h are just limited to staying patient. When your enemies try to chamber you it's a lot harder for them when you are 1h than if you were 2h/polearm user. Typical randomer will perform better as 2h than as 1h no shield because he has this random chance of actually hitting an enemy and 2h weapons deal more damage on average which doesn't mean that well placed stab with italian sword can't be as deadly as greatsword's one.
Polearms still easiest ^^. No other class has such a nice swing damage-speed-length stats with all the shieldbreaking, useful secondary modes, horse rearing and choice of weapons when it comes to length and role. Also animations are very simple and it's close to impossible to do the attack wrong. Long war axe, Long axe and bec de corbin are the top polearms that I'd list. They could go head to head with longsword imho.
There is shitload of great weapons in all classes in my opinion. Item balancers r doing some good by increasing variety.