1hand or shield issue (crpg public server)

[Phew]

I will give you one word of advice. Do not stop playing, and most importantly enjoy yourself.

Arowaine is an old-timer who probably hasn't played much throughout the recent changes. 1h is very strong right now, it just requires exploiting different mechanics than it used to. You used to be able to rely on left swing wizardry, now you have to abuse neutral nudge, stabs, and spin overheads.

It's sad that improving in cRPG is mostly a matter of abusing the exploits du jour, but c'est la vie.

[Jona]

I spent like a year using military hammer when they first added it, back when siege was actually populated and you could run around clonking people on the head a midst the chaos. Now you're lucky to have another human on siege to duel with, so I use swords mostly. The Danish greatsword was the FOTM back then, so the military hammer was actually fast by comparison. Now it seems as slow as a Long Maul.

Ah, figured it musta been from back in the day. There are very few names that I actually recall from those times, let alone gear loadouts. If I ever made an xbow alt, I would definitely name it in honor of Pigeontooth (or was it Pigeonteeth??... shit) and wear his gear loadout. For some reason I remember his quite vividly. Anyone else other than good ole autoblocking carebear, nope. I think I had a very low IQ back in the day.

[Turkhammer]

It should be possible to stab under or over the shield.  That is the most effective way to use a shield.  No one would lower a shield to strike a blow or to stab, you would be giving up your most valuable defensive asset.

[Tojo]

It should be possible to stab under or over the shield.  That is the most effective way to use a shield.  No one would lower a shield to strike a blow or to stab, you would be giving up your most valuable defensive asset.

If that were the case I would make an agility dagger shielder and stab you until you regret your decision.

[Turkhammer]

If that were the case I would make an agility dagger shielder and stab you until you regret your decision.

Not if I stabbed you back.  It'd even out.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Not if I stabbed you back.  It'd even out.

Fight bundle of sticksry with bundle of sticksry!

[LordLargos]

As a long time 1h shielder I have noticed a somewhat sizable increase in glances lately. This could be due to my rusty footwork after a few gens as cav, but a weapon weight increase to reduce glancing would be a nice rebalance since we already suffer from the lowest melee damage. Another possible solution would be to adjust the wpf point-point value(how much you put in to get out.) For example I use 5 wpf points and get 1 point in 1h prof rather than 6 wpf for 1point. This would help rebalance shielder since it has one of the largest varieties of skills behind some of the cav builds. These buffs should be only small adjustments, shielder doesn't need all that much help.

I don't really like major adjustments to animations since often times the game mechanics can get messed up. Animation adjustments can also lead to a swing becoming overpowered which might result in a counter buff leaving the class worse off than when they started.

As for playing style, I'd suggest a somewhat methodical entree to test your opponent. If you're using a long one hander try to bait the enemy into charging so you can stab them early off. Follow this by trading a few one for one blows to test for spamming and size up your opponents fighting ability. At this point I like to feint and attempt fancy footwork(It's rusty) while trying to strike significant blow with overheads or stabs, slashing with a long 1h does some damage but most players are better at blocking them so it's really just useful for a combo or batting them around.

[SMEGMAR]

As a long time 1h shielder I have noticed a somewhat sizable increase in glances lately. This could be due to my rusty footwork after a few gens as cav, but a weapon weight increase to reduce glancing would be a nice rebalance since we already suffer from the lowest melee damage. Another possible solution would be to adjust the wpf point-point value(how much you put in to get out.) For example I use 5 wpf points and get 1 point in 1h prof rather than 6 wpf for 1point. This would help rebalance shielder since it has one of the largest varieties of skills behind some of the cav builds. These buffs should be only small adjustments, shielder doesn't need all that much help.

I don't really like major adjustments to animations since often times the game mechanics can get messed up. Animation adjustments can also lead to a swing becoming overpowered which might result in a counter buff leaving the class worse off than when they started.

As for playing style, I'd suggest a somewhat methodical entree to test your opponent. If you're using a long one hander try to bait the enemy into charging so you can stab them early off. Follow this by trading a few one for one blows to test for spamming and size up your opponents fighting ability. At this point I like to feint and attempt fancy footwork(It's rusty) while trying to strike significant blow with overheads or stabs, slashing with a long 1h does some damage but most players are better at blocking them so it's really just useful for a combo or batting them around.

long espada 2 hard

[WITCHCRAFT]

I have not played shielder since the patch that nerfed very high agi/shield skill builds, but I did a level 32 gen as 18/24 shielder a while ago and loved it. High agility shielders can and should play offensively. Your athletics and crazy high wpf (with already above-average weapon speed) allow for some very skilled and rewarding footwork. You can weave through blobs of enemies with ease, and after they hit each other hit them in the back. Nudges and kicks aren't even needed, you can beat 2H and pole users to the swing every time and stay within super close range so their long weapons glance and your short reach weapon always hits.

Strength shielders do better as defensive support. I wouldn't recommend going below 15 agi/5 shield skill though. You try to draw attention to yourself so teamates can get a hit on the enemy. If they attack you, just defend and nudge when you can. If they turn away for even a second, an overhead swing (or stab, if you weapon is a stabby one) will cripple or kill them. Fancy footwork isn't really possible, but nudging and backing away is very safe and lets your allies hit the stunned enemy. Play defensively and support your balls-to-the-wall offense teamates.

Shielding an archer or crossbowman on your team is not only courteous and historically accurate, but will also help your team a bunch. When archers or crossbowers can draw/reload without strafing and hiding behind terrain, they will shoot more often and more accurately. They will also be grateful and seek you out in later rounds if the two of you pull it off.

e:

I will give you one word of advice.
[a lot of words]

lol

[Teeth]

I used to really enjoy 1h without shield. It obviously lacked some damage compared to being a 2h, but I loved the animations, the speed and the right swing gives you enough reach to do well in battle. Nowadays many 2h have gotten big speed increases while 1h didn't. Using a 95 speed Greatsword with 28p, 40c and 120 length does more damage, has more reach and actually feels faster than a 98 speed Knightly Arming Sword. Or a 96 speed Flambard. Or a 97 speed Miaodao.

This is the k/d I have gotten using a variety of 1h weapons without a shield, granted this character only just reached level 32
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This is what I have gotten using a variety of 2h, with a character that just reached 33.
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Not saying this is entirely representative for anything, but I think I am fairly decent at both and for me personally this shows that 2h are just much better weapons. Of course a shield is a huge deal, but is it 0.6 k/d after taking into account the decreased movement speed, added costs, less skill points for IF and WM and the slower blocking? I feel that compared to current 2h speeds, some speed increases for 1h are not unreasonable. Many non 1h weapons have speeds in the 1h range now and 1h just lost its speed edge completely. I used to love the KAS and NCS swords and they used to be fast, but compared to the faster swords like the Elite Scimitar they are absolutely garbage now, simply because they lack speed when all your opponents have become much faster.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I used to really enjoy 1h without shield. It obviously lacked some damage compared to being a 2h, but I loved the animations, the speed and the right swing gives you enough reach to do well in battle. Nowadays many 2h have gotten big speed increases while 1h didn't. Using a 95 speed Greatsword with 28p, 40c and 120 length does more damage, has more reach and actually feels faster than a 98 speed Knightly Arming Sword. Or a 96 speed Flambard. Or a 97 speed Miaodao.

This is the k/d I have gotten using a variety of 1h weapons without a shield, granted this character only just reached level 32
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This is what I have gotten using a variety of 2h, with a character that just reached 33.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Not saying this is entirely representative for anything, but I think I am fairly decent at both and for me personally this shows that 2h are just much better weapons. Of course a shield is a huge deal, but is it 0.6 k/d after taking into account the decreased movement speed, added costs, less skill points for IF and WM and the slower blocking? I feel that compared to current 2h speeds, some speed increases for 1h are not unreasonable. Many non 1h weapons have speeds in the 1h range now and 1h just lost its speed edge completely. I used to love the KAS and NCS swords and they used to be fast, but compared to the faster swords like the Elite Scimitar they are absolutely garbage now, simply because they lack speed when all your opponents have become much faster.

I can't fucking wait to to reach my level 33 build as a pure 1h, man, Spent nearly half a year at 34 and said fuck it at 35, I'm so ready to be a high strength pure 1h with 1 shield skill  to deter ranged. Damn, it'll be so sick.

[Jona]

patch that nerfed very high agi/shield skill builds

What? When? You just mean the re-working of shield skill for no more invincible shields? Not entirely a nerfing of shielders...

[Grumbs]

Kind of pointless comparing weapons like German GS to 1 hand w/ shield without looking at what a shield and the different animations bring to the table. There is a lot more to a team game than KPD.

A shielder has a much bigger opportunity to support his team in ways that a 2 hander can't. You can fight better with multiple team mates around you as you won't glance as much and you will stop team hits easier. You can make shield walls. Fight more where theres ranged enemies around. Clutch a round much better at the end (a 2 hander will get shot half the time). You can attack ranged easier. Distract enemies and they can tunnel vision on your shield. Etc

The actual weapon is 1 or 0 slot. This is a huge deal when it comes to balancing the effectiveness of the weapon by itself. They are already too strong when you look at what you can do with the other slots with or without a shield

[Teeth]

Well, my role as a 1h without shield is very similar to my role as a 2h, which makes this comparison reasonably fair. From a weapon versus weapon point of view 2h outperforms 1h. Of course it should, but I think this is too big of a margin to be compensated by the shield. I used to think 1h was as good as 2h in a duel, but that is definitely not the case anymore. If the average shielder meets the average 2h, the average shielder is at a big disadvantage I'd say.

A shielder has a much bigger opportunity to support his team in ways that a 2 hander can't. You can fight better with multiple team mates around you as you won't glance as much and you will stop team hits easier.

2h have a dual role as excellent duel weapons and functioning as a support polearm with the 2h stab. 80% of my attacks are stabs if I am surrounded by teammates as a 2h, it is awlpike long and so easy to aim and curve around teammates.

[Strudog]

but there are still many advantages to shielders, the ability to block any attack direction with no worries what direction it is, shielder is so good when you are being ganked, easiest out of all the classes to win in those situations.

It still has really good output damage, well when i have played shielder it has.

There is nothing more annoying than a shielder who turtles when you play as a 2h weapon that does not break shields, the aim of battle is to kill as quickly and many people as possible.

Shielders have great survivability on eu1 and strat.

So before you look at all the shortcoming of shielder look at the positives as well. Each class has its different role on the battlefield.

Well, my role as a 1h without shield is very similar to my role as a 2h, which makes this comparison reasonably fair. From a weapon versus weapon point of view 2h outperforms 1h. Of course it should, but I think this is too big of a margin to be compensated by the shield. I used to think 1h was as good as 2h in a duel, but that is definitely not the case anymore. If the average shielder meets the average 2h, the average shielder is at a big disadvantage I'd say.
2h have a dual role as excellent duel weapons and functioning as a support polearm with the 2h stab. 80% of my attacks are stabs if I am surrounded by teammates as a 2h, it is awlpike long and so easy to aim and curve around teammates.

2h's are  specialist duelling weapon so if a shielder does meet a 2h 1v1, i would expect the 2h to win, plus the average 2h is better than the average shielder in c-rpg.