cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Nick_Larking on January 08, 2011, 07:15:28 am
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Well i tried to get most basic build, there are more variations but then we would have way to many options.
So just vote for the one you think is OP or choose the i dont know option.
Curious to see what everyone thinks
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Maul\mace\morningstart pure str build is missing.
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I have made a bunch of alts in preparation for the patch. Hands down, easiest build is 2h/thrower strength build with all strength other than the 9 agility for 3 weaponamster and athletics, all the rest of points in throwing, powerstrike, and ironflesh. Even in heavy armor can run down most archers, I can 1 hit kill most people with javelins 34 pierce plus the throwing skill modifier and swing incredibly fast with a bastard sword and two handed axe. SO EASY. Also, the new slower combat speed makes easy to block, but many people dont because of the 1 hit kkill ease for melee so you block once and kill a lot of the spammers out there (which there are alot mor eof since the patch hit). I have every other kind of build and nothing compares with the ease of this build. On the opposite side of the coin archery is near worthless build now as 6 powerdraw and warbow/longbow needed to do any effectual damage (2/5 health of someone in lamellar), but the 6 power draw 18 str prevents a high enough wpf such that your shots go randomly wide of the reticule amking it a spamfest, lower bow with lower powerdraw more accurate but only do 1/10 healtha t best against medim-armor clad opponents. Enjoy hunting archers with my OP build as near impossible to hit erratically moving target with delayed trigger release and reduced draw speed and I can 1-hit kill with javelin. Really need some game balancing issues addressed here, but until then killing easily.
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Hahahahahahaha Heavy horse archer the one with most votes?
Totally wrong, It takes many many arrows to kill someone as HA now.
If by heavy people mean bumping armored horses, it would be called heavy cav, but AHA is not what it used to be.
Next time I will make sure I take off my contacts after the adviced time :P
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Most powerful build...probably a plated 1H/shield. Or a very skilled light cav.
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You dont see many heavy horse chargers anymore cause upkeep is pretty hard and pretty much noone can pay one.
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Hahahahahahaha Heavy horse archer the one with most votes?
You mean charger not archers.
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Hahahahahahaha Heavy horse archer the one with most votes?
Read the poll again :wink:
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rofl my bad. In my defence I had my contact lenses on more more hours than I should have :p
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whers the "Knife throwing peasant with pt 8" :lol:
that is the most op class from my point but on the other hand im playing my archer alt :D
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You really need to add thrower hybrid to the poll choices.
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Heavy horse archer... wow you do you people even play the game nowadays ?
p.s. voted medium armored 1hander with shield.
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Throwers cause everything was nerfed except them and now EVERY 1 is thrower including some ex archers. They still got pierce damage and same attack speed which is faster than average archer. Id say slow down thier attack speed the same as they did to archers so it evens up and/or keep the upkeep at 20 % so when thier 10k throwing lance of ez shotgunage is damaged so that they pay for thier Awesomeness. I for one beleive upkeep SHOULD be kept up so these expensive items are kept to a minumum and let the newbies have some % of killing a "lord or lady of so and so'' I mean its only fair right?
ps. Probobly be better to slow down thier attack cause yeah they cant throw half as far as archers but most fights up close mean they have much more advantage in battle than any other ranged character.
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Throwing was nerfed. Throwing range and speed were significantly decreased and it is dreadfully annoying.
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I stand corrected. Its still awesome wpn and much better than any bow. U dont have some kooky knocking animation to slow ya down!
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I have made a bunch of alts in preparation for the patch. Hands down, easiest build is 2h/thrower strength build with all strength other than the 9 agility for 3 weaponamster and athletics, all the rest of points in throwing, powerstrike, and ironflesh. Even in heavy armor can run down most archers, I can 1 hit kill most people with javelins 34 pierce plus the throwing skill modifier and swing incredibly fast with a bastard sword and two handed axe. SO EASY. Also, the new slower combat speed makes easy to block, but many people dont because of the 1 hit kkill ease for melee so you block once and kill a lot of the spammers out there (which there are alot mor eof since the patch hit). I have every other kind of build and nothing compares with the ease of this build. On the opposite side of the coin archery is near worthless build now as 6 powerdraw and warbow/longbow needed to do any effectual damage (2/5 health of someone in lamellar), but the 6 power draw 18 str prevents a high enough wpf such that your shots go randomly wide of the reticule amking it a spamfest, lower bow with lower powerdraw more accurate but only do 1/10 healtha t best against medim-armor clad opponents. Enjoy hunting archers with my OP build as near impossible to hit erratically moving target with delayed trigger release and reduced draw speed and I can 1-hit kill with javelin. Really need some game balancing issues addressed here, but until then killing easily.
I think you speak the burden of the majority of the archers here.
Long story short: definitely over-nerfed archery.
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[Heirloomed] elite scimitar with a shield. I'm fine with a fast 1h but the scimitar comes with an unusual reach for its speed too. If possible, I'd like to see a small nerf to the scimitar to offset its exceptional speed, length, and capacity for manual blocking.
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Where is the peasant option. I want a peasant option as the most dangerous one.
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The best build is the weapons master. He has over 100 in 1h, 2h and Polearms. He carries a shield, a steel pick, a pike, and a flamberge. He can take on any foe and is impervious to archers, crossbowmen, and thrown weapons. If it is a close quarters map where cavalry are not expected, he might pull out some throwing axes or war darts. The army of one.
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I have made a bunch of alts in preparation for the patch. Hands down, easiest build is 2h/thrower strength build with all strength other than the 9 agility for 3 weaponamster and athletics, all the rest of points in throwing, powerstrike, and ironflesh. Even in heavy armor can run down most archers, I can 1 hit kill most people with javelins 34 pierce plus the throwing skill modifier and swing incredibly fast with a bastard sword and two handed axe. SO EASY. Also, the new slower combat speed makes easy to block, but many people dont because of the 1 hit kkill ease for melee so you block once and kill a lot of the spammers out there (which there are alot mor eof since the patch hit). I have every other kind of build and nothing compares with the ease of this build. On the opposite side of the coin archery is near worthless build now as 6 powerdraw and warbow/longbow needed to do any effectual damage (2/5 health of someone in lamellar), but the 6 power draw 18 str prevents a high enough wpf such that your shots go randomly wide of the reticule amking it a spamfest, lower bow with lower powerdraw more accurate but only do 1/10 healtha t best against medim-armor clad opponents. Enjoy hunting archers with my OP build as near impossible to hit erratically moving target with delayed trigger release and reduced draw speed and I can 1-hit kill with javelin. Really need some game balancing issues addressed here, but until then killing easily.
i totally agree with kesh
archery is worthless and should just be removed from crpg as it will prevent people making mistakes by creating an unusable archer character
i too, have been almost cheating in crpg by playing as a melee 2 hander and can easily outrun everyone, even if im wearing heavy armour, but only if they have less athletics than me
i laugh as i play as no-one wears heavy armour any more and die in 1 or 2 hits to my spamberge
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Throwers cause everything was nerfed except them and now EVERY 1 is thrower including some ex archers. They still got pierce damage and same attack speed which is faster than average archer. Id say slow down thier attack speed the same as they did to archers so it evens up and/or keep the upkeep at 20 % so when thier 10k throwing lance of ez shotgunage is damaged so that they pay for thier Awesomeness. I for one beleive upkeep SHOULD be kept up so these expensive items are kept to a minumum and let the newbies have some % of killing a "lord or lady of so and so'' I mean its only fair right?
ps. Probobly be better to slow down thier attack cause yeah they cant throw half as far as archers but most fights up close mean they have much more advantage in battle than any other ranged character.
Have you compared the upkeep of a bow+arrows to the upkeep of 4 stacks of throwing weapons? No? It's expensive! 4 stacks of lances= 40k+ in equipment. Can't upkeep that.
Then there's the randomness+disappearing throwing weapons crap that still exists.
More often than not I miss a charging 2h by an inch... twice... only to get spammed to death.
Hell, even if he's standing completely stationary it's a bitch to hit stuff with heavy throwing axes if it's 15m+ away from you.
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put throwers on the poll, the problem with them is that they are only based on the thrower's skill, not the one being thrown at. A dadecated thrower in a cloth armor can suivive a bolt from a double hierloomed seige crossbow (which takes for ever to reload) and the thrower can oneshot almost everyone with a jarid :(.
They should do the same thing they did to archery. Make PT decrease accuracy insted of increasing it.
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Didn't vote you didn't have 2hander of anykind :p
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Its a bit disturbing this lack of skill in this community.
53 peasants voted for heavy horse charger, a class that is absolutely unplayable after the last Ninja horsenerf. Not because of the insane sky-high upkeep, but because of the fact that even a heavy plated charger does almost no charge damage. A charger that cant charge is as powerful as an archer without a bow but with a small dagger or something for melee protection.
The only thing you can kill today with a charger is afk people and naked injured peasants.
Even before the patch charger was way harder to play than infantry. A level 1 peasant could stop your horse, 1 throwing lance could kill it, 2 bolts or 2 bodkin arrows do the trick as well.
Infantry has always been easiest to play, but nowadays the new easy mode is a thrower/2h hybrid. (For throwing you dont need any wpf, so you can give all in 2h, go for str 24 and 15/18 agi, thats the way to the top of the scoreboard. Boring as hell, throwing shit because you dont have the balls or "skill" to play pure melee, but if your goal is to be most effective and help your team win, thats your build. =))
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crushing is op, throwing is op, archery is too strong, 2h is too strong, Poles are too strong.
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Its a bit disturbing this lack of skill in this community.
53 peasants voted for heavy horse charger, a class that is absolutely unplayable after the last Ninja horsenerf. Not because of the insane sky-high upkeep, but because of the fact that even a heavy plated charger does almost no charge damage. A charger that cant charge is as powerful as an archer without a bow but with a small dagger or something for melee protection.
The only thing you can kill today with a charger is afk people and naked injured peasants.
Even before the patch charger was way harder to play than infantry. A level 1 peasant could stop your horse, 1 throwing lance could kill it, 2 bolts or 2 bodkin arrows do the trick as well.
Infantry has always been easiest to play, but nowadays the new easy mode is a thrower/2h hybrid. (For throwing you dont need any wpf, so you can give all in 2h, go for str 24 and 15/18 agi, thats the way to the top of the scoreboard. Boring as hell, throwing shit because you dont have the balls or "skill" to play pure melee, but if your goal is to be most effective and help your team win, thats your build. =))
Lol you know you can use a weapon along with the charger, right? :rolleyes:
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crushing is op, throwing is op, archery is too strong, 2h is too strong, Poles are too strong.
Crushing could use a bit of tweaking, throwing is overused not op, archery could lose a couple of points of damage for the rest fine, 2h is fine except for some weapon tweaks, poles are fine. 1h is also fine except for some weapon tweaks (and preferably some new weapons to fill some gaps).
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Crushing could use a bit of tweaking, throwing is overused not op, archery could lose a couple of points of damage for the rest fine, 2h is fine except for some weapon tweaks, poles are fine. 1h is also fine except for some weapon tweaks (and preferably some new weapons to fill some gaps).
Crushing, as it is, is downright broken mechanic. And will stay that as long as you can crushlock your opponent. It would be fine if crushing would deal way less damage, and would be impossible to do 2 times in a row without opponent chance to break the chain of crushes.
Throwing is op due to it's rate of fire and available ammunition. Too much, i suggest decreasing the stacks considerably and introducing reload animation (ideally i think that shield should work during reload, and during weapon change to other 1h weapon - or everything that you have in your belt). Problem lies in weapon changing mechanic, and it's known since early beta.
Archery could also use reloading animation, other than that i feel that basic soak and reduction values need a tweak in this mod. Also less damage, surely. Also lesser projectile speed.
2h is too fast imo, in current balance, and have too efficient animations that increase range and work better for stab.
Poles are nearly fine, but not totally.
1h could use some stat changes (i posted thread).
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Lol you know you can use a weapon along with the charger, right?
Lol you know you can use a weapon along with the charger, right?
Thats what I am talking about. You dont have a clue, never played it, but have to comment.
But I shall enlighten you.
How is cavalry to be played? Sneaking behind the enemy, and stabbing careless/ afk/ not aware people in the head. Thats all you can do as cavalry in crpg.
So the horseman wants speed, or maneuver. Some prefer Courser, some Sarranid, thats a question of personal taste.
I am fine with Palfrey, thats all I need.
Before the patch, you could use the charger, to charge shielder and archer. You could use a lance to feint an attack, stab, or just raise your shield in the very last moment and charge. So you could kill shielders.
Polearm and 2h, too risky, if not impossible.
And the average horseman has more skill than the average footman, many horsemen own footmen on ground, their own domain, after their horse is dead, just to clarify.
After the last archer buff, on all those anti-cav archer heaven crpg maps even with a charger is risky.
After the last cavalry-nerf,
the heavy plated charger I had to sell, it was too slow, unplayable, even at field by the river totally useless.
The Mameluke horse, I still have to test. Probably its the same, then I will test the cataphract horse.
When a footman thinks heavy cavalry is overpowered, he is a bad bad player, thats the truth.
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A charger that cant charge is as powerful as an archer without a bow but with a small dagger or something for melee protection.
Charge damage is for pussies. Go get a weapon and actually earn your kills. Bumpknocking is fine, wounding or killing this way is not.
Infantry has always been easiest to play, but nowadays the new easy mode is a thrower/2h hybrid.
Infantry was always easiest to play? Really? Are you sure?
Then all those players in this survey (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,144569.msg3475532.html#msg3475532) certainly were only whining? :rolleyes:
(Pure meele) Infantry is the hardest class in cRPG, there is NO DOUBT.
Before the patch, you could use the charger, to charge shielder and archer. You could use a lance to feint an attack, stab, or just raise your shield in the very last moment and charge. So you could kill shielders.
You know how I kill shielders on horseback? I knock them over and then ATTACK THEM WITH MY WEAPON. So the +1 in my frags is deserved, as it needs at least timing and aiming. Running someone over only needs your left middle finger on [W] all the time and the ingenious insight to avoid pikes and spears.
And the average horseman has more skill than the average footman, many horsemen own footmen on ground, their own domain, after their horse is dead, just to clarify.
Wrong conclusion. They don't have skill because they are horsemen (as you like to imply), they are horsemen because they have skill. This doesn't mean horseman needs skill! They decide for cavalry, because the horse grants them the biggest potential of all classes.
Most horsemen already were horsemen in the old cRPG, and you needed a lot of grind to buy a good horse at that time. A lot of grind means a lot of playing, and a lot of playing means a lot of exercise.
After the last archer buff, on all those anti-cav archer heaven crpg maps even with a charger is risky.
After the last cavalry-nerf,
the heavy plated charger I had to sell, it was too slow, unplayable, even at field by the river totally useless.
This is the best thing about this patch. Plated charger (and most armoured horses) are GONE! Great! :D
If people complain about something, that it's really annoying them, then it has to be removed. If most players would complain about the peasant sickle, although it would kill noone, but annoy them on some way, then the best thing the developer can do is simply remove it, as this would make most players happier!
And most players complained about heavy horses. Period.
When a footman thinks heavy cavalry is overpowered, he is a bad bad player, thats the truth.
I don't want to explain the whole goddamn cavalry thing again, so just the short form:
[heavy cavalry] = [infantry] - [riding skill] + [armoured horse]
With a perfect balance there should be
[heavy cavalry] = [infantry] = [archer] = [crossbowman] = [pikeman]....
So the follwing thing should be true:
- [ridingskill] = + [armoured horse]
In words: the investment of some points riding skill should be worth the benefits of an armoured horse. Worth EXACTLY.
An armoured horse grants:
- higher mobility => protection
- hiher mobility => flexibility
- higher mobility => increased speed bonus
- knockdown
- bump damage
- it's fuckin' unkillable
I think this is worth more than the few skill points in riding skill. And you said yourself, many good cavalry players also pwn on foot. So they are pwn infantry + heavy horse. But it's still balanced or what? :?
(I left the upkeep system out of this argumentation, as I think it has its flaws, and almost totally eliminating (heavy) cavalry is one of it)
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Crushing, as it is, is downright broken mechanic. And will stay that as long as you can crushlock your opponent. It would be fine if crushing would deal way less damage, and would be impossible to do 2 times in a row without opponent chance to break the chain of crushes.
Throwing is op due to it's rate of fire and available ammunition. Too much, i suggest decreasing the stacks considerably and introducing reload animation (ideally i think that shield should work during reload, and during weapon change to other 1h weapon - or everything that you have in your belt). Problem lies in weapon changing mechanic, and it's known since early beta.
Archery could also use reloading animation, other than that i feel that basic soak and reduction values need a tweak in this mod. Also less damage, surely. Also lesser projectile speed.
2h is too fast imo, in current balance, and have too efficient animations that increase range and work better for stab.
Poles are nearly fine, but not totally.
1h could use some stat changes (i posted thread).
Crushing: Yes, I'm with you on this. To an extent at least. I don't use my Barmace very often, but I do feel a secret shame every time I kill someone with it. I get quite a number of crush-throughs, even at 7PS and once I hit lvl 31, I'll have 8 PS making it easier still.
Throwing: No. It's not overpowered at all. With 7 PT (soon to be 8) I generally have to hit a player twice to kill them or three times if they're in very heavy armour. Hitting anybody three times in a row with a Jarid is very tough. The damn things are slow, inaccurate and you don't get many of them. Give it a go.
Archery: I've never played as an archer, but I know they've taken a nerf in the patch so I don't think they need any more nerfs. They're slower than they used to be and they do less damage. What more do you want?
Two-hand: Not so many of these around any more. I wonder why? I think they're fine. They should be the fastest melee class.
Polearms: Seem fine. The most flexible class. Slower than 2h, but a bit faster than 1h? Sounds about right. They're vulnerable in combat now that plate is rare.
One-hand & shield: These guys seem to be everywhere. I think it's the most popular class at the moment. I really don't think they need any buffs - not least because they're my arch-nemesis, heh! Protected from arrows and throwing weapons with their shields, difficult to block because you can't see the hits coming in the way you can with 2h and polearms - I'd say they've got it good.
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Everyone and their brother has a:
- +50 Bow of Horse Sniping
- Pike Longer than my Horse
- +99 Mobile Pike (Throwing Lance)
So yeah, I lose about 1200 Gold a round while cautiously picking off AFK'ers, bumping a few assholes than finding everyone has their pointy sticks out. Around then is when I get dehorsed and gangbanged, because if I try to charge through the front I am taken down by archers.
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How can a heavy horse charger be OP now? He has to pay 3k if it get's damaged AT LEAST.
AND, charge damage has been decreased dramaticly (charge damage multplier went from 2.5 to 1.5) that means when you previously got 25 damage you now only take 15. And horse speeds are decreased too, so a full galop chargerhorse is rare, so you will never take the full damage either.
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All this whining about everything, im sure 5 skilled players could manipulate the entire community by just rolling something in particular and owning up all servers with it, thus creating mass whine and nerf hysteria about that particular class.
Jeez, good players will own all whiners at everything anyways(eventually it will all get whined downto one playable build, and the whiners will still whine cause theyr getting owned by there own builds)
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How can a heavy horse charger be OP now? He has to pay 3k if it get's damaged AT LEAST.
AND, charge damage has been decreased dramaticly (charge damage multplier went from 2.5 to 1.5) that means when you previously got 25 damage you now only take 15. And horse speeds are decreased too, so a full galop chargerhorse is rare, so you will never take the full damage either.
And the 15 don't meant victim receive 3/5 of damage, actually way less. Horse charger are op as they have great anti-archer protection. Besides, it's like every other horse - own if you take heavy lance like every other cavalryman.