cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: HarunYahya on March 26, 2014, 03:31:50 pm

Title: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on March 26, 2014, 03:31:50 pm
Hello lads !
I've been playing this mod for 3 years and I played with every class.
Most of the time I played as a shielder and tried every possible builds with it.
Nowadays I see lots of shielders playing so wrong so I am preparing this guide.

There are three ways to play non-hybrid infantry shielders
-Agiwhore archer chaser
-Tanky bruiser to be targeted by enemies and creating opportunities to your infantry
-Balanced all around disrupter.

First thing I have to mention that your main job is not to kill the enemy !
In this game 2handed hero wannabees have the most damage output,after that polearms follow up so your main job is to create opportunities to your teammates who uses those shit.

Although knockdown has been reduced i still suggest you guys to use high weight blunt 1h weapons(Knockdowned enemy is easy target for you and your teammates) and a long,cheap sword to deflect cav (Also to use in 1v1 situations,i'll come to that.)
(i.e: Winged mace + Long Arming Sword)

What are your main objectives as shielder ?
(click to show/hide)

2 Epic weapons of shielder :
(click to show/hide)

Don't underestimate Iron Flesh skill.
(click to show/hide)

Play defensive !
(click to show/hide)

What to do on 1v1 situations ?
(click to show/hide)

How to deal with backpedallers ?
(click to show/hide)


Strat battles
(click to show/hide)


This is my way of playing productive shielder,you may agree or disagree . Thanks for reading and i hope this helps someone out.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on March 26, 2014, 04:02:22 pm
Nice man
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: jtobiasm on March 26, 2014, 04:39:56 pm
Protecting your archers

Faith has been restored in c-rpg. Seni seviyourm.

Nice guide, i'd also suggest posting builds and explaining them.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Phew on March 28, 2014, 05:18:28 pm
Don't forget the neutral shield nudge (press V without holding attack or block), it's become one of my favorite weapons.

-Relatively easy to land (just be careful against opponents with much more athletics than you)
-Does serious damage to lightly-armored foes
-Disrupts your opponent's attack, so you can use it to vastly prolong your shield's life
-Briefly opens up opponents for your allies to get a free hit
-Sometime you can glitch through them during the nudge and get a free hit outside their block arc
-Interrupts the rhythm of the fight, which can force even excellent duelists to make mistake
-Knocks down ranged that are holding a shot

I probably neutral nudge more often than I shield block nowadays.

Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Clockworkkiller on March 29, 2014, 04:43:05 am
Thanks for pointin ou to the obvious, OP
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Ronin on March 29, 2014, 11:30:05 am
Quote
Let's say you are dueling with one, first don't chase him ! Stand still , block his few swings ,his little brain will start to collapse when you don't respond to his retarded playing method.
This is gold :lol:

I also suggest adding a seperate chapter of how to counter ranged for you and your team. Because yes, people are that much retarded.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Kafein on March 29, 2014, 11:40:11 am
This is gold :lol:

I also suggest adding a seperate chapter of how to counter ranged for you and your team. Because yes, people are that much retarded.

Best way to counter ranged as shielder is to avoid being in line of sight of them and keeping your distance.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: San on March 29, 2014, 03:29:44 pm
I break all those rules, but these are some funny tips.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Screaming Idiot on April 07, 2014, 11:45:12 pm
Quick request here to OP:

What build do you recommend for this kind of shielder? Read a few threads before, but most were old or not particularily appealing.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on April 08, 2014, 03:14:47 pm
Quick request here to OP:

What build do you recommend for this kind of shielder? Read a few threads before, but most were old or not particularily appealing.
For level 30:
15str-21agi =3 IF,7SHIELD,7WM,5PS,7ATH. Good agi based shielder build,deals enough damage ,damage goes extreme if you manage to use your footwork well to benefit speedbonus of 7 ath,good speed,good shield skill so you can a lot of hits if you want,if you don't you can just run back a good disrupter shielder build with 56 health ! This build shines with this playing method. Go between the enemies,nudge em,let them tk each other trying to hit you,if things go bad,retreat.

15 str is enough for 1hander class i think. Remember,powerstrike gives +%8 damage and since base damage from 1handers are between 20-35 (Max 39 or 40 with axe) PS doesn't change damage output as it changes in 2h class where there are weapons with 50 base damage. So investing in agi is superior. 21 agi is good start but to be honest 24 is better,the more the merrier.

Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Penitent on April 08, 2014, 04:28:27 pm
Shielders can be killing machines, just so you know.

I aspire to this every day, sometimes with more success than others.

Nice tips though!
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on April 08, 2014, 08:45:23 pm
Shielders can be killing machines, just so you know.

I aspire to this every day, sometimes with more success than others.

Nice tips though!
They can, I know.
But it's unnecessary in my opinion. You can contribute more by disrupting the enemy.
2H and Poles can be killing machines with far less training and effort , leaving it to them and doing what they can't by playing defensive and creating opportunities is more superior in my mind.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Phew on April 08, 2014, 09:19:34 pm
They can, I know.
But it's unnecessary in my opinion. You can contribute more by disrupting the enemy.
2H and Poles can be killing machines with far less training and effort , leaving it to them and doing what they can't by playing defensive and creating opportunities is more superior in my mind.

The reason shielders can have the same offensive potential as 2h/pole is because they are the most ignored class on the battlefield, since no one enjoys beating on a shield. This anonymity can enable you to run around interrupting enemies and protecting allies, but it can also allow you to sneak up on enemies and deliver a devastating warhammer overhead, for instance. The easiest way to kill anyone is to attack them while they are fighting someone else.

Shielders are at a disadvantage in any kind of 1v1 situation (due to shield weight+poor coverage/blocking speed), so you generally want to try to get in 2v1 and 1v2 situations (yes, a lot of times it's easier to kill an enemy when he has false confidence from a nearby ally than if you were in 1v1 with just him). The old "pretend to attack one guy, but hit his ally instead" trick is the easiest way to land hits on pro blockers.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Penitent on April 08, 2014, 09:26:42 pm
The best tip I have for shielders is to play/spectate NA seige and watch Phew or Dr Demento go to work.  On a good day they are disrupting the enemy and getting a solid 12:1 kdr at the same time!  :)
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Phew on April 08, 2014, 09:32:30 pm
The best tip I have for shielders is to play/spectate NA seige and watch Phew or Dr Demento go to work.  On a good day they are disrupting the enemy and getting a solid 12:1 kdr at the same time!  :)

Don't watch me, I am pretty reckless and die a lot. San, Hungry, Demento, Dread (and several more that don't play NA2 anymore) are all a lot better than me.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Tovi on April 08, 2014, 09:37:35 pm
Good thread.
Forget KD ratio.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Screaming Idiot on April 08, 2014, 09:47:55 pm
For level 30:
15str-21agi =3 IF,7SHIELD,7WM,5PS,7ATH. Good agi based shielder build,deals enough damage ,damage goes extreme if you manage to use your footwork well to benefit speedbonus of 7 ath,good speed,good shield skill so you can a lot of hits if you want,if you don't you can just run back a good disrupter shielder build with 56 health ! This build shines with this playing method. Go between the enemies,nudge em,let them tk each other trying to hit you,if things go bad,retreat.

15 str is enough for 1hander class i think. Remember,powerstrike gives +%8 damage and since base damage from 1handers are between 20-35 (Max 39 or 40 with axe) PS doesn't change damage output as it changes in 2h class where there are weapons with 50 base damage. So investing in agi is superior. 21 agi is good start but to be honest 24 is better,the more the merrier.

Thanks, trying it out now.  :D
Also, what weapons do you recommend for a shielder? Using a Long Arming Sword now, thinking of switching to a (Elite) Scimitar.
Are shorter weapons better than longer ones? Also, should I carry a sidearm (a blunt 1h) with me for flexibility?
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Macropus on April 08, 2014, 10:43:33 pm
because they are the most ignored class on the battlefield, since no one enjoys beating on a shield.
I enjoy beating shields with my long bardiche though.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Penitent on April 08, 2014, 10:52:42 pm
Thanks, trying it out now.  :D
Also, what weapons do you recommend for a shielder? Using a Long Arming Sword now, thinking of switching to a (Elite) Scimitar.
Are shorter weapons better than longer ones? Also, should I carry a sidearm (a blunt 1h) with me for flexibility?

Weapons are extremely personal in my opinon, and there are so many great 1h weapons to choose from.  I've always been partial to the short-but-powerful weapons like steel pick and maces.  You should try out several and see what you like best.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Screaming Idiot on April 08, 2014, 10:54:57 pm
Weapons are extremely personal in my opinon, and there are so many great 1h weapons to choose from.  I've always been partial to the short-but-powerful weapons like steel pick and maces.  You should try out several and see what you like best.

Hmmm...

Okay. But what shield is best for this build? More width or more hitpoints?
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on April 09, 2014, 12:35:28 am
Thanks, trying it out now.  :D
Also, what weapons do you recommend for a shielder? Using a Long Arming Sword now, thinking of switching to a (Elite) Scimitar.
Are shorter weapons better than longer ones? Also, should I carry a sidearm (a blunt 1h) with me for flexibility?
To be honest, i choose my gear by looks :)
Long Arming Sword is best price/performance european sword in the game i think. I am RP'ing saracen theme so im going with elite scimitar.

Some good weapons i would suggest:

Long Arming Sword
Elite Scimitar
Niuweidao
Military Hammer
Steel pick
Spathovaklion
Broad One Handed Battle Axe (Epic weapon,secondary mode deals 30ish pierce damage,gg tincans.)
Knightly Arming Sword (Slightly better than Long Arming Sword i just don't think upkeep worths using it over LAS though.)
Winged mace : Very good close quarters spam weapon. Aim for the heads ! Let those guys drop down the floor then watch em get slaughtered by your mates.
Italian Sword : Very good , try it out if you tend to use stab rather than swings.(Swings of it are ok aswell though.)


As for shield,looks come first rather than stats for me.
Keep in mind,some shields are too heavy and reduce your movement speed but the more weight on the shield,the less chance someone can crushthrough your shieldblock with mauls. I would say if you are going to hold tightspots,such as defending on siege server,i would use heavy shield to protect myself from maulers,if you are playing on battle server or,if you just want to play more mobile than having the ability to block even crushthrough you better use a 5-6 weight shield.


About lenght, it depends on your environment. In tight spots,fighting with long sword causes trouble,your swings will stuck on your teammates,walls and such,you'll fail to deliver the hit and by that moment you would be open to incoming strikes and it may cause you life.
If you go with a short weapon however,you may be easy target for cavalry and people always will try to backpedal and hit you so you must be aware.

I suggest,using a long weapon (90-100ish lenght) as main and carrying "Cleaver" which deals 30c damage and it also has bonus against shields (I know it's retarded though.) It's weight is low so carrying it is just like carrying a dagger for cosmetic purposes,don't underestimate that,it is too damn fast and shines on tight spots where your opponent's swings stuck and your's don't.

Some important situational sidearms:
Dagger:It looks good,when your team gangbangs a tincan,it is wise to switch to your dagger stabbing him whenever you have the opportunity. Too fast for him to react,the hit will intercept his pace and it'll be gg.
Cleaver: Shieldbreaker and your best friend in tightspots like tunnels,rooms,hallways etc. It's spammable , deals fair enough damage.
Shortened spear: 1 slot,very very cheap,stops cav,low weight. Must have if you are playing in battle server with a short main hand weapon.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Screaming Idiot on April 09, 2014, 01:50:09 am
Thank you for the advice.

One last question: What armor should I use for your suggested build? Light mail (Mail Shirt, Saracen Mail w/ Padding, etc.) or something lighter/heavier?

Also, been playing shielder for a bit with your build. Pretty effective, though you are a bit squishy unless you wear decent armor. Stab seems to cause a lot of trouble during stand-offs or backpedals, so I'm thinking of getting a stabless weapon (probably normal Scimitar for dat SPEED & LENGTH, plus low cost) with one of the daggers for can-opening, plus a Winged Mace for support/lulz. BTW, should I use all of these at once or swap them before spawning or just drop them on the go?
Shieldwise, thinking of using an Elite Cavalry mostly (possibly a knightly shield) and swapping to a Heavy Heather for tanking.

Sound good?
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on April 09, 2014, 04:41:55 am
Thank you for the advice.

One last question: What armor should I use for your suggested build? Light mail (Mail Shirt, Saracen Mail w/ Padding, etc.) or something lighter/heavier?

Also, been playing shielder for a bit with your build. Pretty effective, though you are a bit squishy unless you wear decent armor. Stab seems to cause a lot of trouble during stand-offs or backpedals, so I'm thinking of getting a stabless weapon (probably normal Scimitar for dat SPEED & LENGTH, plus low cost) with one of the daggers for can-opening, plus a Winged Mace for support/lulz. BTW, should I use all of these at once or swap them before spawning or just drop them on the go?
Shieldwise, thinking of using an Elite Cavalry mostly (possibly a knightly shield) and swapping to a Heavy Heather for tanking.

Sound good?
STR reduces the movement speed penalty caused by weight. Since the build i postedis not high str build, i suggest you to use light to medium armors (I suggest using 10-15 weight)to benefit your 7 athletics .

Winged mace is a great weapon (Like all blunt 1handers) knockdown is just epic.
It weighs 1.7 so if you are willing to carry that extra weight for maybe playing with mace in the round, go for it. I sometimes carry it with me, sometimes not depending on the enemy team's armor and mostly my satisfaction. You should do the same,play the way you like it.

My current setup on shielder alt:
(click to show/hide)
I haven't used scimitar enough to compare it with elite scimitar, so i don't know if its good or not. I just like elite one's looks :)


About the build,yeah it is squishy,that is because you cannot complete shielder builds at level 30 due to extra skill (Shield) we have to put points in compared to other melee classes.
18 str 21agi @ level 33 gives you 5 IF, 6 PS, 7SHIELD, 7ATH, 7WM with 63 hp.
Your hits will hurt much,you wont die easily,you'll be faster with your armor.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Kirman on April 09, 2014, 09:13:47 am
Well i'm a STR shielder(21/15). I actually like backpedallers. I just stand still while they are doing their silly spins/jumps/stabs. I know that you have to kill your enemy at some point but it's really fun to watch them miss everything while abusing s key.

NCS + Elite Cavalry Shield
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Macropus on April 09, 2014, 10:23:10 am
STR reduces the movement speed penalty caused by weight.
No, it doesn't.

The reason why STR characters tend to prefer heavier armour is that:
1) they are slow already, so some additional penalty wouldn't hurt too much
2) they usually have a lot of IF which combined with heavy armour makes them very tanky
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: elpigeon on April 09, 2014, 12:29:07 pm
Use your brain as a shielder. Best advice of this thread ;)

And if you want to have a max K/D as a melee player, take 2H or pole.

You can have good K/D with 1H shield, but generally, you are useless for your team, cos' you are not in the place where your team needs you.
Your place is in frontline, tanking the pikes and the 2H spammer. During this time, your team (2H and pole) can kill people.

I like your tips harun !
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on April 09, 2014, 05:35:46 pm
No, it doesn't.

The reason why STR characters tend to prefer heavier armour is that:
1) they are slow already, so some additional penalty wouldn't hurt too much
2) they usually have a lot of IF which combined with heavy armour makes them very tanky
Are you sure of it Macropus ?
Few years ago there was a suggestion about it and i remember that it was implemented afterwards.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Penitent on April 09, 2014, 08:36:57 pm
I don't recall STR ever having an effect on armor weight.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Macropus on April 09, 2014, 10:32:14 pm
Are you sure of it Macropus ?
Few years ago there was a suggestion about it and i remember that it was implemented afterwards.
It might have been true before, but I'm pretty sure it's not nowadays.
You could read this thread: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/just-another-test-this-time-strength-and-movement-speed/
I think I have seen some of the devs saying it directly, but I can't find the link.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: HarunYahya on April 09, 2014, 11:43:24 pm
Well i've done a research and couldn't find any hard fact about it.
I still think that str reduces weight penalty on movement speed based on my observations, but can't find a proof to support wheter it does or not,so do it at your own risk.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Falka on April 09, 2014, 11:57:57 pm
It might have been true before, but I'm pretty sure it's not nowadays.
You could read this thread: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/just-another-test-this-time-strength-and-movement-speed/
I think I have seen some of the devs saying it directly, but I can't find the link.

There used to be an info on the website about str reducing weight penalty, but it wasn't true. confirmed by cmp.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: Macropus on April 10, 2014, 08:10:40 am
Well, while str doesn't reduce weight penalty, one could say that the less agi/athletics you have, the less your penalty is, since it's percentage-based.
So of course you would notice a much bigger penalty with 10 athletics than you would with 4.
Title: Re: How to play shielder properly .
Post by: SayAttack on April 14, 2014, 08:27:05 pm
if you will, 2 cents)

Quote
First thing I have to mention that your main job is not to kill the enemy !

in my opinion, it is suitable for any class: warband - a team game, and as sooner we understand this, as better) no sarcasm

Quote
What are your main objectives as shielder ?

the fact is that  shielder is a kind of "salt of the earth" or "fat of the land" as you more like) shielder captures the position and protects it - he is fighter for space rather than killing. every fight forms two opposing lines, shielder's place in the front row of this lines. you should understand that in the battle for victory, for result, not fight for the sake of the fight - you either attack or defend. on this basis, you either break enemy lines or do not let it break your line. and yes, in both cases you will get more damage as from enemy, as from mates -its shielder's job)

Quote
Epic weapons of shielder
...in general, the ability to quickly kill 2 vs 1 is one of the most important for shielder. you need to take the correct position relative to the enemy - ideally, he should be between you.
 and pls, do not wait for your turn to hit) delay could cost your life to your spaming mate)

Quote
Play defensive !

well, i think you should play defensive when it necessary. and when it necessary you should be as more aggressive as you can. each local fight has some sort of timing.  learn to feel the moment when the situation requires your active actions. implementation of such moments - one of the most important qualities of shielder, as non1vs1unit.

thx HarunYahya for subj and spam more left!)