cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Grumpy_Nic on March 22, 2014, 09:21:25 am
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Just in case anybody in charge is considering a buff to IF.
Each point in IF could reduce the knockdown chance by 1%.
Thanks for reading. Goodbye
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Why not
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Why not
Because that doesn't make any sense at all.
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Because that doesn't make any sense at all.
I think it is the one skill which makes the most sense to receive a bonus like that. Allow me to further explain:
The name ironflesh suggests that a character becomes more sturdy, tougher and can take more hits (2HP per point as we all know).
That was basically my thought when creating this thread.
And in general, the stronker u are the less u're getting pushed around right? :wink:
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Yes, please increase the time it takes to kill people.
Why not add floating damage numbers every time you hit someone too? And raid bosses that take 30 minutes to die?
IF is already too strong.
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IF is already too strong.
Not at all. If a dump skill is too strong, then all other skills are too strong by far :P
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Not at all. If a dump skill is too strong, then all other skills are too strong by far :P
It's not a dump skill. STR and IF combined can more than double your HP pool. Suppose I have the choice between 24 STR 7 IF 8 PS and 27 STR 0 IF 9PS. Unless I plan on gaining further levels, the 24 STR build is massively better.
Anyway, my point is not that IF should be a bad skill but that it should do something else than being a pure "you can survive more errors" crutch. That's precisely the origin of the game's slowness that people keep on talking about.
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I think it is the one skill which makes the most sense to receive a bonus like that. Allow me to further explain:
The name ironflesh suggests that a character becomes more sturdy, tougher and can take more hits (2HP per point as we all know).
That was basically my thought when creating this thread.
And in general, the stronker u are the less u're getting pushed around right? :wink:
Even if you are Chuck Norris,if you got hit by a fucking winged mace to your head,you can't stand still.
IF doesn't need a buff. You know the times you freak out and yell and teamspeak "OMG IM NEARLY DEAD BY THIS FUCKING HEADSHOT AT THE 10th SEC OF THE FUCKING ROUND !!!!" those ironflesh skills saved your ass.
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Even if you are Chuck Norris,if you got hit by a fucking winged mace to your head,you can't stand still.
IF doesn't need a buff. You know the times you freak out and yell and teamspeak "OMG IM NEARLY DEAD BY THIS FUCKING HEADSHOT AT THE 10th SEC OF THE FUCKING ROUND !!!!" those ironflesh skills saved your ass.
people actually use IF.? it's not even worth getting. I always transfer the points to str for more PS like IF doesnt even protect you much to take a difference besides glances from teamwounds.
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Make IF 2.5 points each if mechanics allow or maybe 3 Points ( fear it might be too OP?)
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I think rolling makes knockdown mitigation moot. I know I personally still wouldn't care to put points into it, since it's not that difficult to get a very high rolling % nowadays. Weaker knockdown weapons already have a meager 7.5% chance to knockdown on the head and legs, while cav bumps are going to knockdown each time. That leaves a small subsection of weapons this would be useful against.
Because IF is universally beneficial, I don't think a 1:1 ratio in increased stats compared to the other skill points is a wise idea, but I would like something better than 1:4 or 1:5. That's why I believe that IF aiding in the dropoff in damage of held strikes would be helpful. In the past, held strikes were changed from a constant multiplier of damage no matter how long you held, to a low point of 50% (iirc) after a few seconds. That's why I believe IF helping in this area won't cause an imbalance. 0-3 IF builds may need a small penalty for how long they're allowed to hold for great damage. This would make it so 0IF / agi builds need to time attacks even better with the limited holding ability. Because they release attacks faster anyways, I think that's fine.
It's not a dump skill. STR and IF combined can more than double your HP pool. Suppose I have the choice between 24 STR 7 IF 8 PS and 27 STR 0 IF 9PS. Unless I plan on gaining further levels, the 24 STR build is massively better.
I still find it silly how one would think IF isn't a dump skill then proceed to compare 7 IF points to 1 extra PS. There are situations where you have an extra 3-5 skill points on top of the IF. For instance, let's say you were level 32, 21-18, 7IF with 3 extra skill points. You could stick with the 21-18 build or you could be 24-18 with 3IF, leaving a difference of 5 measly hp. Losing 4 IF instead of 7, all of a sudden that 21-18 build looks pretty crappy in comparison. That's because it takes too many IF points (dump skill) to become equivalent to other skills.
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It's not a dump skill. STR and IF combined can more than double your HP pool. Suppose I have the choice between 24 STR 7 IF 8 PS and 27 STR 0 IF 9PS. Unless I plan on gaining further levels, the 24 STR build is massively better.
You're missing the point a bit.
Gurni did compare IF to other skills, not to attributes+skill combo. In your example the 24 str 7 IF build is clearly better, but what if you have to choose between let's say 5 IF and 5 riding (or athletics (or shield (or WM)))?
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I'd rather just buff IF directly in what it already does. Make it +4 HP per point or something. 5 points would give you +20 HP which would be at least somewhat beneficial. 5 PD, 5 WM, 5 PS, 5 Shield, 5 riding, 5 Throwing would still be better but it would at least be a better situation than now
The other ideas to me are a bit random.
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What about removing IFs HP buff and making a % armour. Says 1% - 2% increase to armour. So if you have 7IF you get 7% boost on your 70 armour plate crutch so you get a whooping 4.9 more points of body armour...
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What about removing IFs HP buff and making a % armour. Says 1% - 2% increase to armour. So if you have 7IF you get 7% boost on your 70 armour plate crutch so you get a whooping 4.9 more points of body armour...
It would make it even weaker...
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I never use IF in my builds, just doesn't seem to make as much of a difference as an extra 1 ath + 3 agi or +5 shield or +5 riding does.
Some (probably bad) ideas:
Slow HP Regen
Stronger nudges/nudge resistance
Longer held strike drop-off time
Raw damage reduction
+3 or +4 HP instead of +2
Cav bump resistance
Lower upkeep chance for armors
Greater damage_interrupt_attack_threshold_mp
Higher fist damage
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You're missing the point a bit.
Gurni did compare IF to other skills, not to attributes+skill combo. In your example the 24 str 7 IF build is clearly better, but what if you have to choose between let's say 5 IF and 5 riding (or athletics (or shield (or WM)))?
Well okay then, IF is not the first priority of a lot of people, I certainly agree with that.
Nevertheless, I believe things should be changed to reduce the amount of damage someone dedicated to being a meat shield can sustain before dying. Changing the way IF works is one way to acheive that. Actually, I think this suggestion has some merit by proposing a more interesting way of doing IF instead of simply "get more HP". One idea I believe could work quite well is to nerf the HP bonus and instead make IF the governing skill of armor difficulty. That would even allow giving buffs to the heaviest armors, as they would now be at an objective disadvantage over lighter ones due to them requiring more IF to use. A little bit like why higher difficulty shields are often flat out better than lower difficulty equivalents.
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It would make it even weaker...
Fine then elevnty%
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Well okay then, IF is not the first priority of a lot of people, I certainly agree with that.
Nevertheless, I believe things should be changed to reduce the amount of damage someone dedicated to being a meat shield can sustain before dying. Changing the way IF works is one way to acheive that. Actually, I think this suggestion has some merit by proposing a more interesting way of doing IF instead of simply "get more HP". One idea I believe could work quite well is to nerf the HP bonus and instead make IF the governing skill of armor difficulty. That would even allow giving buffs to the heaviest armors, as they would now be at an objective disadvantage over lighter ones due to them requiring more IF to use. A little bit like why higher difficulty shields are often flat out better than lower difficulty equivalents.
The problem we have with this game is that everyone and their nan can block melee hits like pro's now. Good hits still floor people pretty fast. When you see people tanking hits they are probably nearly glancing, don't have speed bonus (or negative speed bonus?), are random swings without any holding etc.
The game has an initial steep learning curve with manual blocking because its unique to the game, but once you get past that hurdle it feels really easy to counter melee. Thats why the game is all about ganking and going 3v1 or 2v1 because otherwise the fights can last forever. Its not really the HP and armour, its the ease that melee can be countered. No other class needs to gank in such a way with their primary attacks to take down a target like melee does. Then in addition to that we have blocking with just a simple right click with shields. The game should be more lethal from an attacking position, rather than a turtling and risk free blocking system unless you're getting ganked
We need decent HP to counter random hits and to encourage people to use stuff like holds/speed bonus/aiming at the head etc though
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The problem we have with this game is that everyone and their nan can block melee hits like pro's now. Good hits still floor people pretty fast. When you see people tanking hits they are probably nearly glancing, don't have speed bonus (or negative speed bonus?), are random swings without any holding etc.
The game has an initial steep learning curve with manual blocking because its unique to the game, but once you get past that hurdle it feels really easy to counter melee. Thats why the game is all about ganking and going 3v1 or 2v1 because otherwise the fights can last forever. Its not really the HP and armour, its the ease that melee can be countered. No other class needs to gank in such a way with their primary attacks to take down a target like melee does. Then in addition to that we have blocking with just a simple right click with shields. The game should be more lethal from an attacking position, rather than a turtling and risk free blocking system unless you're getting ganked
We need decent HP to counter random hits and to encourage people to use stuff like holds/speed bonus/aiming at the head etc though
I beg to differ. Absolute morons with plate and STR builds tend to take more time to die than decent players (i.e. good blockers) with very light armor, just because it takes a ludicrous amount of time to hit someone a dozen times even if few of your attacks are blocked or evaded. Blocking anything more advanced than straight attacks does not seem to be particularly easy for a majority of the playerbase.
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My idea from a similar thread was for the benefit of IF to be +1 health, +1 armor. less overall health, but makes ironflesh characters harder to kill. The overall health pool would not be as high, making blunt and pierce weapons more effective, while making cut weapons and other "weak" weapons bounce off more and make the strength build more tankish against low level characters.
it never made sense to me why IF only gave health and not armor; the character is meant to be tougher to kill, and i think this sort of bonus would be the buff that IF needs. perhaps every point of IF would add a set amount of weight, say .2 or .3, so that the player would have some balance to the armor offset; player will be slower and have less wpf than other characters. most people only invest 4-6 IF (I max mine), so the benefits of it would be good for hybrid or balanced builds, but only someone devoted to strength will really reap the full benefits.
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people actually use IF.? it's not even worth getting. I always transfer the points to str for more PS like IF doesnt even protect you much to take a difference besides glances from teamwounds.
I do,it is pretty decent.
PS doesn't really matters too much actually. Im using 8 ps in my main,it takes same amount of hits to kill someone with my 4ps 198 wpf stf ...
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HP is too hardcoded or something like that, so i dont think we will see any changes to IF. IMO its a good skill and should be left as it is, having max IF makes you quite a bit tankier, i think people underestimate the bulk you get from having decent armour and 5+IF. Having 8+ IF and plate makes you a machine. I feel that i can tank a ton more arrows if i have max IF aswell.
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knockdown was already nerfed.