cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: BlindGuy on March 19, 2014, 05:32:08 am

Title: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: BlindGuy on March 19, 2014, 05:32:08 am
Currently balance is fucked. It's just retarded. But maybe my viewpoint is warped.

I dont like that currently "balance" team balances classes, not weapons, don't adjust obvious issues, nerf the last useful tools and buff already powerful stuff. I dont like the slot system. Or at least I don't like how the slots are arbitrary, based neither on size, price, effectiveness or utility of gear. I don't like the way there is only one truly viable hybrid option.

BUT Maybe I'm alone in thinking the last few patches have been making things worse and worse, so: Poll.

If you feel that you need to write anything in this thread, make it concise please: State what you are unhappy about in 10 words or less if possible.

If something has happened in last few patches that you think is really good, please write that, also in as few words as possible. Also, if you were butthurt by awlpikes and liked the way they were nerfed, think critically: was it really required to nerf all polearm stabs because of one item?
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Kamirane on March 19, 2014, 06:18:34 am
no heraldic donkeys.... makes me sad...  :cry:
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Macropus on March 19, 2014, 08:21:29 am
Answering the question in OP:
1) I am pretty happy with current balance
2) Your poll is shit
3) Your post is shit


You should make a bigger time gap between GTXting the game and writing something on forums, would help to make it look less butthurt.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Jacko on March 19, 2014, 09:05:37 am
BlindGuy, take your own advice:  If you feel that you need to write anything in this thread, make it concise please: State what you are unhappy about in 10 words or less if possible. So far you're just whining.

Balance is OK, meta game is CAV.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Kafein on March 19, 2014, 10:37:01 am
The last changes were the best since... probably the removal of polestun.

Now that I think about it, it's interesting that this patch is also about removing a bullshit ability for polearms.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Teeth on March 19, 2014, 11:19:06 am
Balance is pretty good. Only points that come to mind is that shields don't provide enough protection against ranged, crossbows have a too powerful combination of excellent ranged and melee capabilities and slashing cav has ridiculous damage output and too easy bumpslashing.

Shit thread is shit though.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Kafein on March 19, 2014, 11:44:16 am
Slash cav without bumpslash is pretty useless though. Just dodge it. Shouldn't be too hard with horses barely more agile than turtles.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Strudog on March 19, 2014, 11:48:53 am
1h CAv is Op, especially since they buffed the arabian cav sword by 1 speed, my only complaint, everything else is balance in my eyes.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: BlindGuy on March 19, 2014, 12:52:23 pm
Balance is pretty good. Only points that come to mind is that shields don't provide enough protection against ranged, crossbows have a too powerful combination of excellent ranged and melee capabilities and slashing cav has ridiculous damage output and too easy bumpslashing.

Shit thread is shit though.

These are all points I agree with.
BlindGuy, take your own advice:  If you feel that you need to write anything in this thread, make it concise please: State what you are unhappy about in 10 words or less if possible. So far you're just whining.

Balance is OK, meta game is CAV.

Your the worst part of the community: able to play but still solid supporter of noobtubes being massively OP.

Answering the question in OP:
1) I am pretty happy with current balance
2) Your poll is shit
3) Your post is shit


You should make a bigger time gap between GTXting the game and writing something on forums, would help to make it look less butthurt.

Huh? GTXting? If you mean last night at 4.30 (GMT): I stayed that late to wake my missus up for work cause shes on mornings, it was finally late enough that I could wake her so I left. TBH I left pretty satisfied, opposite of rage, I got to kill that cav teamkiller when he got balanced to other team, nicely mauled him with my zero powerstrike :D

This thread was pretty serious: 1hand + shield with slight AGI leaning is currently godlike, and 1h cav are more powerful in almost every aspect than lancers: Im no polearm fanboy, I like to fight with everything, but 1hand is currently brokenly good, the stabs are still retarded, and Tydeus is smoking something I can't buy it seems. WHY would he nerf pike and bamboo spear? its beyond me.

1h CAv is Op, especially since they buffed the arabian cav sword by 1 speed, my only complaint, everything else is balance in my eyes.

Really? You love the noobtube too tho so fair enough.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: HarunYahya on March 19, 2014, 01:11:24 pm
To be honest, buff for arabian cav sword is stupid. I don't think that 1 speed matters too much on horse yet the problem is,now they don't have a disadvantage once dehorsed.I've seen you typed buff to shields . I have no idea what you consider as "buff" shield is a handicap from the very start of this game.

Overall i really don't see a major balance problem in the game. Stacking agi is more useful that stacking str maybe that but meh...Your choice here.

Slot system is essential to this game imo.It may be adjusted to satisfy many,but removing it should not be an option.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Tuetensuppe on March 19, 2014, 02:00:32 pm
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Macropus on March 19, 2014, 02:48:52 pm
Huh? GTXting? If you mean last night at 4.30 (GMT): I stayed that late to wake my missus up for work cause shes on mornings, it was finally late enough that I could wake her so I left. TBH I left pretty satisfied, opposite of rage, I got to kill that cav teamkiller when he got balanced to other team, nicely mauled him with my zero powerstrike :D
I've no idea, I dont track anyone's quits, it just looks like a post written after a RQ.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Algarn on March 19, 2014, 03:55:36 pm
No, I'm not.
Warning, QQ content, do not open it if you want to stay safe.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 19, 2014, 04:43:42 pm
1h cav needs a nerf, other than that i like the game as it is.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 19, 2014, 07:18:08 pm
I'm not sure this post is worthy enough to be in my chamber.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Nightmare798 on March 19, 2014, 07:42:55 pm
Nope, I am pissed the fuck out. First I had to play my shitty shielder class, and when It finally got buffed, my laptop broke down. FUCK THIS CRAP.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on March 19, 2014, 07:48:22 pm
Fix 1h stabs. Don't nerf 1h cav, nobody in NA even plays it. Make shields more effective against ranged. Nerf morningstar on horseback. Get rid of shield penetration for crossbows.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Algarn on March 19, 2014, 08:11:47 pm
Fix 1h stabs. Don't nerf 1h cav, nobody in NA even plays it.

Come on EU1 at prime time, try to play archer for 2 mins, and try to stay alive.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Nightmare798 on March 19, 2014, 08:22:49 pm
Fix 1h stabs.

THERE IS NOTHING TO FUCKING FIX!!!

1H stabs are as broken now as every other stab in this game ever. Besides, devs specifically stated that the 1H stab buff will NOT be reversed.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on March 19, 2014, 08:23:35 pm
Calm down. They are broken.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Nightmare798 on March 19, 2014, 08:29:48 pm
Calm down. They are broken.

That is however your opinion...
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Gurnisson on March 19, 2014, 11:16:21 pm
Come on EU1 at prime time, try to play archer for 2 mins, and try to stay alive.

If you are half-decent it's no problem. If you're bad, you'll die like him ^
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: BlindGuy on March 20, 2014, 05:47:51 am
(click to show/hide)

Back OT: I aprove of thread being moved I guess since theres plenty QQ.

Went thru thread, +1'd all ppl making good points (I dont agree with them all but they are good nonetheless), this is good thread now with 2 pages woot:

My opinion incase I didnt get it thru properly in my sleepiness last night: I dont wanna see anything nerfed just many more things buffed.

Also would love a slight increase to WPF "spill" between melee classes, so if you split completely evenly you get slightly increased returns.

Also I would love to see knockdown on practise lance, even if its SUPER LOW, cause if somehow you manage to get couched by that, it should knock you on your bottom.

EDIT: LOL the OP is my most downvoted post that Ive ever gona back and noticed. Hue hue hue why so mad ppl? :D
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Prpavi on March 20, 2014, 07:40:31 am
I don't play anymore so yes I'm happy ^___^
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Algarn on March 20, 2014, 12:24:17 pm
If you are half-decent it's no problem. If you're bad, you'll die like him ^

Decent at using the tilde instead of shooting ? It's a choice to not use it, and I see most cavs that kill me, I'm aware of them, they just bumpslash me in a fraction of second, don't say I'm bad because I get 1 hit by 1h cav. I'm bad sometimes since I miss arrows, or do a wrong block in duels (still manage to do at least in most cases 1.5:1 k/d, so no, it's not about being bad or not).

(By the way, did try lancer a round, 22:4 with a level 30 without any loomed item, game is balanced, mkay.., did 1 or 2 hit people with a light lance whereas I kill people with 4 arrows from a longbow usually).

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2014, 01:39:43 am
"guys I did 50:0 on flat random plains with fog no polearms and no ranged cav is so OP nerf it"
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: San on March 21, 2014, 02:19:36 am
Could be better, but there are limitations over what could get changed. Hoplites are a little off and most likely pikemen, too. I still think IF is bad compared to other skills. I'm not behind every single change 100%, but with good compromises, changes are progressing satisfactorily. I was away from town for a week during the last patch, so some of those changes came as a surprise.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Teeth on March 21, 2014, 10:07:52 am
Hoplites are a little off and most likely pikemen, too.
What do you mean with off? Too strong? Hoplites got hurt bad by the latest patch, I can still do really well but it is just incredibly unreliable and frustrating for me to play right now. The more difficult stab sweetspots and the removal of the slight polearm stagger makes people get in your face pretty badly. Doing any stabs at less than perfect reach is very risky and I can't seem to grasp how to make it work consistently. Pole stabs have gotten more difficult to use accross the board. I found the longspear pretty bad and the two directionals that are left are much trickier to use, however they still allow you to kill about 12 people in 3 seconds and the awlpike is still laughably overpowered. The effect of these patches is really noticable on the server, there are barely two-directional polearmers or hoplites left, while they literally swarmed the server before. Which in turn seems to have turned heavy cav in a bit of a plague on EU. Stabbing at short distances is simply a lot harder and I get loads of weird glances, which is a good thing I guess.

The pike however was literally never able to stab at very short reaches anyway and feels pretty much the same to pre-patch. Pike is a much better weapon now relatively and might even be the most effective support polearm. Which is good cause it was my favourite anyway, just afraid that I am gonna lose my niche.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Sniger on March 21, 2014, 12:37:42 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: BlueKnight on March 21, 2014, 01:06:47 pm
I am not satisfied with high S-speed. Buff 'W' slightly and decrease 'S' speed slightly. I think that fighting should be more about mouse fighting than keyboard fighting. Maybe if it had additional reference to the weapon type/length (with some exceptions) it could work. I just wonder if it could be done without nerfing 1 vs many too much.


Also the amount of arrows in the bag is huge seriously and I'd like to talk about it.

(click to show/hide)

IMPORTANT: PD should only allow you to shoot shiet from bows but you shouldn't need PD to pick up a bow. It would come handy when archer is running away and drops his bow, you could just pick it up so the archer can't come back for it. You could pick it up but couldn't attack with it, not sure if it's doable but would be great.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Kamirane on March 21, 2014, 01:08:28 pm
my GF needs some Balance. Give her bigger boobs, more libido and let her eye color switch when her mood changes.....
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: San on March 21, 2014, 02:15:44 pm
Quote
What do you mean with off?

You answered your own question pretty well.

Hoplites got hurt bad by the latest patch, I can still do really well but it is just incredibly unreliable and frustrating for me to play right now. The more difficult stab sweetspots and the removal of the slight polearm stagger makes people get in your face pretty badly. Doing any stabs at less than perfect reach is very risky and I can't seem to grasp how to make it work consistently.

All of this. I tried hoplite for a few weeks and I was stuck performing close spinstabs at people's feet or close up to down stabs, unable to use a good portion of my reach unless I receive a large speed bonus. "Off" means that it's difficult to get a feel for the stab and it visually doesn't make much sense when you see it hit/glance, an awkward feeling. Lack of intuitiveness makes it feel like the old 1h stab. Final performance was 2.6:1, decent/mediocre, but a noticeable hit compared to what kills would have been achieved/deaths avoided before the patch.

I mentioned long spear / pike weapons since I believe that they may have similar issues, but I haven't played them myself.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Jona on March 22, 2014, 12:18:01 am
I still think IF is bad compared to other skills.

Ummm... what? The difference between having 2 and 6 IF on my characters is HUGE. Sure, it is a 4 point difference, and those points could be spent on other things like shield or riding, but for a pure melee build IF is a necessity nowadays. With stabs still being the go-to attack, that is a lot of pierce damage coming your way. Armor doesn't help so much in that case, so the more IF the better. With 6 IF I can withstand a solid 1 - 2, sometimes even 3, hits more than with 2 IF. Stacking +3 plate on an agi build is simply foolish since anyone with a good pierce or blunt weapon will still cut you down in only a couple hits. IF is absolutely necessary for some builds, and sure it might be less useful on other builds, but it is still not something to dismiss entirely, ever. Being an agi build for ages, I always dismissed IF as a luxury. Now that I actually have IF I can only say that I have definitely been missing out all this time.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: San on March 22, 2014, 12:28:11 am
I think you're trying to argue against points I wasn't even trying to make. Also, going from 8IF build to 0IF, my opinion is the opposite to yours. You can make up for it with better armour, which is overall more efficient. You don't need plate to get to 60+ armour, which is all you need if you want to feel tanky.

Quote
Ummm... what? The difference between having 2 and 6 IF on my characters is HUGE. Sure, it is a 4 point difference, and those points could be spent on other things like shield or riding

You're agreeing with me. 1 IF is not worth 1PS, 1ath, WM, and riding by far. Even on a non-shielder, 1 IF vs  1 shield is debatable. 2 to 6 IF is a smaller difference than 2 to 6 WM, 2 to 6 riding, and 2 to 6 shield.

Quote
With 6 IF I can withstand a solid 1 - 2, sometimes even 3, hits more than with 2 IF.

3 hp of damage per hit? Makes perfect sense.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Jona on March 22, 2014, 12:47:19 am
I think you're trying to argue against points I wasn't even trying to make. Also, going from 8IF build to 0IF, my opinion is the opposite to yours. You can make up for it with better armour, which is overall more efficient. You don't need plate to get to 60+ armour, which is all you need if you want to feel tanky.

I am arguing that IF is perfectly useful as is... you were arguing it isn't useful enough.

You're agreeing with me. 1 IF is not worth 1PS, 1ath, WM, and riding by far. Even on a non-shielder, 1 IF vs  1 shield is debatable. 2 to 6 IF is a smaller difference than 2 to 6 WM, 2 to 6 riding, and 2 to 6 shield.

All a matter of opinion. There are plenty of guys who prefer str builds and would want to maximize their total health above all else. If you are an agi build, sure IF isn't going to be as useful as more of what you're 'supposed' to use.

3 hp of damage per hit? Makes perfect sense.

Suit up in fully loomed plate, then have a wimpy 1handed sword start wailing on you.

Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: San on March 22, 2014, 01:25:30 am
I guess I got hung up on the 'dismiss entirely' part. I think it feels like other skills are worth 3-5 IF points instead of ~1. I believe we agree on that, but agree to disagree over whether that's okay or not. I believed it was okay in the past, since WM wasn't so great either, but now IF is alone.

To me, I can only look at the actual increase it gives, dismissing the "I take X many more hits!" as just a psychological effect.

Edit: to go into more detail, I think the general hp levels are fine, but IF has too little of an impact compared to strength giving "enough" hp by itself. This was how I felt with free wpf from leveling, although this isn't as bad. Since Hp is coded heavily into the game, IF is kind of stuck imo.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: GOBBLINKINGREATLEADER on March 22, 2014, 03:50:38 am
Ummm... what? The difference between having 2 and 6 IF on my characters is HUGE. Sure, it is a 4 point difference, and those points could be spent on other things like shield or riding, but for a pure melee build IF is a necessity nowadays. With stabs still being the go-to attack, that is a lot of pierce damage coming your way. Armor doesn't help so much in that case, so the more IF the better. With 6 IF I can withstand a solid 1 - 2, sometimes even 3, hits more than with 2 IF. Stacking +3 plate on an agi build is simply foolish since anyone with a good pierce or blunt weapon will still cut you down in only a couple hits. IF is absolutely necessary for some builds, and sure it might be less useful on other builds, but it is still not something to dismiss entirely, ever. Being an agi build for ages, I always dismissed IF as a luxury. Now that I actually have IF I can only say that I have definitely been missing out all this time.

I don't know dude I played with 0 IF in NA_1 a lot recently topping the scoreboard pretty EZ when I tried. However for strat 1 IF really gets you screwed with the ranged metagame and having no armor at all.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: Jona on March 22, 2014, 09:17:26 am
To me, I can only look at the actual increase it gives, dismissing the "I take X many more hits!" as just a psychological effect.

Not going to argue, I am sure it is somewhat psychological... but honestly ever since I've actually put IF into my build it's been so much better. Now you assume that each hit I was talking about did some 3 hp each, or something... which is not necessarily the case. You can function with only 1hp left. Many times I walk away from a vicious ganking with nought but a sliver of health left and know that is was the small increase in health from my IF that saved me. Heck, the small increase in IF saves me even when I am wearing my peasant gear a heck of a lot... I guess that on average 2 swings from most weapons would be enough to cut someone down who has only 2 IF, but any IF over that amount is just enough to limp away from such an encounter, and that can mean a world of difference.
 
Also I feel that our views might differ because you are a battle player, where you can consistently get 1-shot by cav or ranged, making total health not matter much, or pick your fights such that each scenario is more in your favor, be it 1v1 where you just shit on the poor bastard or something... while I play mostly in siege where willingly jumping into a moshpit is mandatory at times. Sometimes surviving in a moshpit on the flag for even a single second or two longer than you would have with lower IF can be a gamechanger, making IF more useful in my siege-player's eyes.

Also, I will admit I also forgot to mention that along with the 4 IF increase I also had a 3 strength increase... my bad. In my opinion if they removed the health bonus from stacking strength, and made IF the only way to  increase your max health (and changing the amount of health it gives) then IF would be as useful as athletics or PS. The problem is that each point in strength gives you 1 hp, which is a 2.63% increase per point over the base health (38 hp, according to the character planners). Meanwhile, each point in agility "makes you move a bit faster" which I think is a 0.5% running speed increase, or something like that. Granted now that agility also provides wpf, it is more balanced, but a single point in strength should not give such a large increase, while each point in IF should grant more.


I don't know dude I played with 0 IF in NA_1 a lot recently topping the scoreboard pretty EZ when I tried. However for strat 1 IF really gets you screwed with the ranged metagame and having no armor at all.

I can do quite well in battle with no IF, as well. Especially as my shielder alt (who shuns IF in favor of riding), and you are a shielder, no? Having that shield in place of IF makes a whole lot of difference... IF and footwork is a non-shielders' only defense against ranged. As I said above, IF is more useful for us (non-shielder) siege guys, I think.
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: San on March 22, 2014, 01:57:23 pm
I was just poking fun at you when you said you take 3 more hits with 4 more IF, I know that's not what you meant  :D (or if I read wrong).

Strength gives a strength / 5 raw damage bonus and +1hp. 2 strength = 1 IF

Agility and athletics affects acceleration and running speed at approximately 4 agility = 1 athletics.
At 0WM, 3->8 agility gives you the same benefit as 1WM. At higher levels, you need much more than a 5 agility increase to = 1 WM.

I think this secondary effect is similar to the strength / 5 bonus, while the movement speed mirror's strength's relationship with IF. I'm not saying IF is bad, since it has some use with the +3 strength increase. I'm trying to argue that it's comparatively not as good due to the needed buffs to WM (and partly the shield armour buff making shield more desirable).

Had this concern for a long time, although most disagreed back then: http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/will-if-be-too-weak-after-the-wm-change/
Title: Re: Current Balance: are you happy?
Post by: 722_ on March 22, 2014, 03:12:14 pm
You answered your own question pretty well.

All of this. I tried hoplite for a few weeks and I was stuck performing close spinstabs at people's feet or close up to down stabs, unable to use a good portion of my reach unless I receive a large speed bonus. "Off" means that it's difficult to get a feel for the stab and it visually doesn't make much sense when you see it hit/glance, an awkward feeling. Lack of intuitiveness makes it feel like the old 1h stab. Final performance was 2.6:1, decent/mediocre, but a noticeable hit compared to what kills would have been achieved/deaths avoided before the patch.

I mentioned long spear / pike weapons since I believe that they may have similar issues, but I haven't played them myself.

Its noticeable with my long awlpike now, i cant really use the reach to my advantage any more because you just glance, get stunned and then get hit. but i also tried hoplite and its not as bad as that