cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 10:09:48 am

Title: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 10:09:48 am
Hello all,

I have come to the conclusion that it might seem fit to make the spear 1 slot, as there are weapons that are heavier and longer that are? Which to me, makes no sense.

Take the 1/4 staff for example, it's got 2 more reach, but a little less weight. (0.2). Or the military fork, which has more weight and the same reach?

I'm not sure how balanced this would be, but it seems logical according to the stats, so yeah.

--

When held up against the quarter staff, the two seem to be very comparable when it comes to battlefield performance; one has knockdown, more reach, more speed, as opposed to the spears somewhat similar damage output (less on swing, more on thrust). I believe these comparisons at least go with the point that it should be a one-slot polearm as well. However, compared to other two-slot polearms, it pales when held up against the iron-staff, long axe, long war axe etc.

Making the spear one-slot will also promote hybridization, which wouldn't be a bad thing considering the weapon is no stand-out on its own. Also it'll give pole-arms a lot more versatility as the only really feasible options are the staff/quarter staff or awful.

Thanks for reading



Title: Re: Would it be a good idea to make the Spear 1 slot?
Post by: Torben on March 14, 2014, 10:12:19 am
ya give more pole 1slot weapons!
Title: Re: Would it be a good idea to make the Spear 1 slot?
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 10:14:11 am
Like when you take it into consideration, it's got a bit of reach and a marginal damage increase on the shortened spear, but it's only .1 weight more, and is 4 speed less. In my books, they seem pretty comparable.
Title: Re: Would it be a good idea to make the Spear 1 slot?
Post by: owens on March 14, 2014, 12:19:38 pm
I have often thought this while masturbating to MLP fan fiction

Good Idea Eugene you slimey todger!
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot.
Post by: Byrdi on March 14, 2014, 12:47:33 pm
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapon.

Spear is a whole lot more viable than quarter staff, since 29p vs quarter staff's 21b is a huge difference.
Pure polearm cav would benefit a lot from this. Since they can then have a 2 slot lance, a shield and a spear (that can be used when de horsed.

Also: poll is biased :D
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot.
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 01:08:38 pm
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapon.

Spear is a whole lot more viable than quarter staff, since 29p vs quarter staff's 21b is a huge difference.
Pure polearm cav would benefit a lot from this. Since they can then have a 2 slot lance, a shield and a spear (that can be used when de horsed.

Also: poll is biased :D

I did forget to take into account the 1H shield benefit of this, but I wouldn't say it's superior to the 1/4, as even though it has more thrust, it's only one direction that often thuds (especially against facehuggers), where the quarter staff is faster, longer AND has a pretty decent chance of knockdown. I suppose that with the new horse-stop, the quarter-staff could be used also by 1h/shield for the same reason, as well as it being a less proficiency demanding side-arm for dehorsed cavalry. I'm sure many players will agree that they are comparable, as one pro doesn't constitute three cons.

Edit: Poll isn't biased, the "'interesting' Australian idea" was an attempt at humour to say it's retarded. Sorry for the cloudiness of the joke :P
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eddy on March 14, 2014, 03:52:38 pm
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapon.
They already can if you have a look at the Military Fork wich even got the same length of the Spear so i dont see a problem there  :wink:
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Gurnisson on March 14, 2014, 03:56:20 pm
It would require quite a large nerf to the stats on the spear. Either that or buffing the military fork a lot.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot.
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 14, 2014, 04:49:31 pm
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapon.

Spear is a whole lot more viable than quarter staff, since 29p vs quarter staff's 21b is a huge difference.
Pure polearm cav would benefit a lot from this. Since they can then have a 2 slot lance, a shield and a spear (that can be used when de horsed.

Also: poll is biased :D

2 slot shields are garbage, so this is a stupid argument.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 05:37:09 pm
It would require quite a large nerf to the stats on the spear. Either that or buffing the military fork a lot.
Opinion on spear vs qtr staff?
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Gurnisson on March 14, 2014, 05:42:51 pm
Opinion on spear vs qtr staff?

Spear is better, by quite a lot.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Soldier_of_God on March 14, 2014, 05:53:14 pm
Well, i cant see any harm with the normal spear. not the war spear though. if thats what you meant... poo poo to you sir.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: imisshotmail on March 14, 2014, 06:46:02 pm
The spear is quite good as a weapon, but honestly it is far from a top tier polearm, and it is worse than most good 1handed weapons so I don't see why it shouldn't be 1slot at all. Compare the Spear to the ACS or something and it's worse than it by some distance.

More 2hs/poles should be made 1slot to give variety.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: BlindGuy on March 14, 2014, 06:48:07 pm
...considering the weapon is no stand-out on its own...

Post was kinda good untill this point. Dafuq game YOU playing?

2 slot shields are garbage, so this is a stupid argument.

You didn't read before writing. Noone mantioned 2 slot shields.

Compare the Spear to the ACS or something and it's worse than it by some distance.

The BEST parts of the ACS is how I can stun someone endlessly and get tripple head damage AND stop horses with it. Wait no, thats the spear still... Tard. Prices are same too....
 There should be a minimum game mechanic understanding and player skill requirement for forum access I swear to Armagam.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 06:50:56 pm
The spear is quite good as a weapon, but honestly it is far from a top tier polearm, and it is worse than most good 1handed weapons so I don't see why it shouldn't be 1slot at all. Compare the Spear to the ACS or something and it's worse than it by some distance.

More 2hs/poles should be made 1slot to give variety.

The spear compared to almost every other 2 slot polearm (most notably long axe, iron staff, long war axe etc) really show that the spear really lacks a lot of "oomf" that most 2 slot weapons, and even most one-handers have. The reach really isn't great when compared to the bonus' of 1h/2h animations.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 06:57:45 pm
Wouldn't be such an issue if it still couldn't rear horses..  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: BlindGuy on March 14, 2014, 07:03:40 pm
The spear compared to almost every other 2 slot polearm (most notably long axe, iron staff, long war axe etc) really show that the spear really lacks a lot of "oomf" that most 2 slot weapons, and even most one-handers have. The reach really isn't great when compared to the bonus' of 1h/2h animations.


But... WHY are you comparing them as if they fill same space?

Spear is spammable, usable effectively with shield, rears horses, light, cheap.

Iron staff: More pricey, heavier, a massively overpowered duel and gank weapon, but cannot rear horses or be used to great effect with a shield: Yes yes, we have all used all the staffs with shield at some point for lols, but it is not a serious choice, especially since the knockdown tweaks.

the axes: cannot rear horses, cost much more, cannot be used with shield.

Your begging for an improved screwdriver, and your argument is that hammers are better at putting nails in....
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 14, 2014, 07:14:00 pm
Arguably, anything is spammable. I personally don't believe in it - just a rage term by feintwhores who aren't half as convincing as they look. If both parties aren't retarded, they should go hit for hit usually.

Secondly, item price is a joke nowadays as upkeep means diggity squat. Besides, spear is almost 4K, which is kinda similar to iron staff, hafted blade etc?
Thirdly, can't any pole >100 reach rear horses now? (I'm unsure bout this)

I still say the qtr staff is just as good, as it's faster, swings harder, is longer, and has knockdown, which kind of cancels out the more damage the spear gets on the thrust.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: imisshotmail on March 14, 2014, 09:13:08 pm
The BEST parts of the ACS is how I can stun someone endlessly and get tripple head damage AND stop horses with it. Wait no, thats the spear still... Tard. Prices are same too....
 There should be a minimum game mechanic understanding and player skill requirement for forum access I swear to Armagam.

The ACS is one of the best weapons in the game at the moment (without a shield even). and you are a really fucking bad player so I don't expect you to understand it.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Kaoklai on March 14, 2014, 09:48:41 pm
There should be a minimum game mechanic understanding and player skill requirement for forum access I swear to Armagam.

I'd be willing to put up gold that Fabio shits all over you.  Why not have a friendly wager duel, first to 7 for 80k or something- sound good? 

Don't be scared, homie. 
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: San on March 15, 2014, 05:31:53 pm
I could see this if the military fork gets buffed so it's not completely useless.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Ujio on March 15, 2014, 05:59:08 pm
Take the 1/4 staff for example, it's got 2 more reach, but a little less weight. (0.2). Or the military fork, which has more weight and the same reach?

That's one way of doing it. The other way would be to make the weapons you mention have the
same amount of slots as the Spear.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: BlindGuy on March 15, 2014, 07:49:57 pm
Arguably, anything is spammable. I personally don't believe in it - just a rage term by feintwhores who aren't half as convincing as they look.

Dude spammin is hitting out of turn before your opponent can get a hit in. If you dont believe it, try to fight with a maul vs a shortsword: if the short sworder has over 150 WPF he can easily force you to block continously unless you have really nice footwork.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Osiris on March 15, 2014, 08:40:07 pm
As far as i can tell from the weights in the shop only 5 shields (Heavy Board, Steel, Huscarl,Long pavise and Fur Covered Shield) are still two slots unless i missed something. So 1h shield and spear is usable with every other one

also i suggested it before and i think others have too. Never seen a reply from anyone in power and not much discussion :P

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/spear-suggestion/msg649275/#msg649275
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 15, 2014, 09:32:17 pm
unless you have really nice footwork.

L2P Issue.

I don't care if you think there's "spam" or not, that's not the issue this thread is about. If you think it's too fast to keep up with, go share your opinion in the Chamber of Tears as nobody else seems to have any issues with it.

--

That's one way of doing it. The other way would be to make the weapons you mention have the
same amount of slots as the Spear.

It's one way of thinking about things, but I personally don't think it's really very fair on Polearms, as it woukd really nerf a lot of the hybrid melee builds out there, which would only promote the use of non-melee builds, no, also would ruin a lot of players builds — thus, further damaging a declining population.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Kafein on March 16, 2014, 09:14:36 am
The Spear is way too good to be 1 slot.

Also using the term "feintwhore" is equivalent to admitting your opinion is worth nothing.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 16, 2014, 09:22:40 am
The Spear is way too good to be 1 slot.

Also using the term "feintwhore" is equivalent to admitting your opinion is worth nothing.

Hey everyone, get a load of this guy :lol:

I never said it's a bad weapon, I just believe it's just as good as some of it's one-slot counterparts.

Feintwhore (adj.): A player who has a very large reputation of feinting all the time, who gets hit as everyone knows his playstyle, who then rages and blames spam. Usually drops a phrase like "spam more kid".
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Kafein on March 16, 2014, 10:00:27 am
Feintwhore (adj.): A player who has a very large reputation of feinting all the time, who gets hit as everyone knows his playstyle, who then rages and blames spam. Usually drops a phrase like "spam more kid".

Oh okay. Your use of the word made me think you were one of these guys that rely on wildly swinging large pieces of metal disregarding what their opponents are doing as a measure to compensate their inability to block.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Sniger on March 16, 2014, 10:11:00 am
as a huscarl user i find it a little bit annoying and completely unrealistic that im not able to wear a sidearm (any!) as well as spear. i also understand why this is not possible, doesnt make it less annoying though :D

perhaps make ONE of the spears (idc which) a 1slot hoplite spear and for example lower the damage and/or remove the horse stopping? (what is this feat called? the horse stopper? :p)


wtf mili fork is 1slot since when lol awesome im a noob
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Osiris on March 16, 2014, 11:08:42 am
military fork is one slot
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot.
Post by: MURDERTRON on March 17, 2014, 01:21:17 pm
You didn't read before writing. Noone mantioned 2 slot shields.
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapons
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapons
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapons
Wouldnt it be a huge buff the 1h shielders? They would then be able to carry a one handed weapon, 2 slot shield and a anti cav weapons
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot.
Post by: BlindGuy on March 17, 2014, 03:53:25 pm



SRY man I read the 2 posts before talking about 1 slots, my bad bro :D
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: spiritus on March 18, 2014, 08:41:31 am
omg so u want to make my mw spear one slot!!!!!! I can have a mw arb and a great polearm!? A 2slot shiild 1h and a great hoplite weapon to be honest this would be unbalanced as much as i want to abuse it......
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Eugene on March 18, 2014, 12:17:51 pm
omg so u want to make my mw spear one slot!!!!!! I can have an mw arb and a great polearm!? A 2slot shiild 1h and a great hoplite weapon to be honest this would be unbalanced as much as i want to abuse it......

It's no better side-arm than say, an arabian cavalry sword or a spathovaklion in my opinion.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: Ikarus on March 19, 2014, 09:56:17 am
So there´s a way bowbimbo could run around with a spear?
that would be devastating :>
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: spiritus on March 22, 2014, 07:14:48 am
It's no better side-arm than say, an arabian cavalry sword or a spathovaklion in my opinion.
It's a wonderful weapon the stab has a great sweetspot and great damage! It is very fast 99 speed mw for 135 length and double piercing atks i actually prefer the mw spear over mw warspear or mw shortenend spear.
Title: Re: Make the 'Spear' One Slot, and Why.
Post by: San on April 02, 2014, 09:18:08 pm
Bump. Thoughts on the spear, boar spear, and military fork?

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