cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kitten_Mittonz on February 23, 2014, 08:01:17 pm

Title: Siege
Post by: Kitten_Mittonz on February 23, 2014, 08:01:17 pm
Why did people stop playing siege? I just looked back on my noob days (Still bad) and i remember when siege had 100+ people on it what happened?
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Sniger on February 23, 2014, 08:03:43 pm
main reason stackers

2nd re-spawn location/mech.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Kitten_Mittonz on February 23, 2014, 08:12:58 pm
Yah but you can stack on battle
and the spawns on battle are predictable so if u spawn late u get raped by cav half of the time
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Ronin on February 23, 2014, 08:14:09 pm
It was 94/200 last I checked, so maybe people were having a break when you checked?
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Kamirane on February 23, 2014, 08:15:30 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Sniger on February 23, 2014, 08:19:10 pm
Yah but you can stack on battle

Why did people stop playing siege?

i dont play battle either. but you asked about siege so keep to siege or change title
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Latvian on February 23, 2014, 08:22:18 pm
eu has about 100 players online at siege
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Kitten_Mittonz on February 23, 2014, 08:22:46 pm
It was 94/200 last I checked, so maybe people were having a break when you checked?
Idk i think your talking about eu there cuz in na its empty af
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Ronin on February 23, 2014, 08:23:20 pm
Idk i think your talking about eu there cuz in na its empty af
You should have said so :)
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Sniger on February 23, 2014, 08:26:45 pm
0\
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: StonedSteel on February 23, 2014, 09:07:49 pm
Main reason for me?

Multis

for battle its not a bad system, but for siege its horrible. There is just nothing that makes you want to leave the game more, then trying your ass off, killing 10-20 in 6 mins, and getting nothing for it.

Fun aside this is an xp game, we are all here to grind our chars, nothing screams "k, fuck siege, time for battle" more then having an amazing rnd, and not getting rewarded for it.

And now that so few people play, more often then not, siege usually goes down a lil something like this

Rnd 1: defense, you do amazing, try ur ass of, but unfortunately lose in the last min, possibly due to team, possibly due to unbalanced map. you lost, but you did save flag a bunch of times....valor goes to? usually noone, anoher reason siege is unrewarding, but when it does go out, it rarly goes to the people saving the flag, it goes to the people that leave their teammates to rack up kills on the wall or enemy spawn.

Rnd 2: k, so rnd 1 was frustrating, no biggie, you have a good team and your attacking now...you are doing well.....goddamn it..TOO WELL SLOW DOWN OR people will leave...too late, people already leaving, hurry get to the flag b4 its too late....your at flag, its dropping,,,soo close, almost there,,,boom!! yes, u won!!

"teams unfair" GODFUCKING DAMMIT THERE IS ONLY A 2 PLAYER DIFFERENCE FFS!!!

Rnd 3: back to defense...k screw it, i know im gonna lose this anyway...go for valor. you head for the walls, and for whatever reason, everyone fallows you....flag is ninja capped

Rnd 4: well if they can ninja cap it...i can too,...so you sneak around, screw helping ur team, screw getting point or kills, drop the flag, thats all that matters...haha u are there, no one sees you, its dropping..annnnnnd, DONE IT DROPPED!! U WON SUCCESS!!!

"teams are not fair"

and cuz u ninjad instead of fighting on the wall....valor if any, goes to....well, not you going after the actual objectives u can bet that

so u just spent all that time on a x1....its the equivalent of getting stuck with thee absolute worst team in battle mode, where you just know you are gonna keep getting steam rolled and stay on x1 for 30 min to an hour...which is a battle players worst nightmare ( besides the actual knightmare of course )

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

True story, happens all the time, very frustrating, very unrewarding, very pointless...yeah, it can be fun to play, ultimately ruined by the fact you need xp to grow, and the xp system in this mode is HIGHLY FLAWED
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Kamirane on February 23, 2014, 09:52:07 pm
(click to show/hide)

i would give u even 10x +1 but i cant....
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 23, 2014, 10:06:38 pm
I stopped playing siege because, mainly, a good battle map or a good DTV map only takes a comparatively minimal amount of effort to balance compared to siege maps, and rage ball maps are obviously automatically-balanced considering the concept.


Too many bad siege maps, and not enough people willing to put in the effort to make enough replacements to weed out the terrible ones.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: the real god emperor on February 23, 2014, 10:09:16 pm
I stopped playing siege cus Greys HRE and Fenris
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: _Tamra_ on February 23, 2014, 10:36:49 pm
I stopped playing siege cus Greys HRE and Fenris

Not DRZ? How weird...
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Latvian on February 23, 2014, 10:55:31 pm
Not DRZ? How weird...
drz sucks ;) they are orcs that are somehow effective in hordes :)
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Elindor on February 24, 2014, 05:33:11 am
Here's an interesting question - how come EU siege is so populated and NA siege now struggles so bad for population?



On that note - part of siege's problem now is critical mass.  It doesn't get many poeple so it's not fun, and because it's not fun it doesn't get a lot of people, etc...
And on top of that, if a group gets on, the balancer is shit of course and can't handle it - and on a small server the imbalances are so much more noticeable.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Snufalufagus on February 24, 2014, 08:07:37 am
Elindor you should make more maps or teach me!!
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: San on February 24, 2014, 08:24:39 am
I think once valour was put in place was when I REALLY started to not play siege as much. + There are only a few people that I want to fight against on siege. Back in 2012, you occasionally saw most players switch to siege now and then.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Elindor on February 24, 2014, 03:44:59 pm
Elindor you should make more maps or teach me!!

I have 4 in siege rotation, unfortunately theres 40 others in there (some good some bad) :(
I can try to make another one soon....
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Fips on February 24, 2014, 05:04:23 pm
Elindor you should make more maps or teach me!!

Just follow the guide in Scene Editing and ask questions if you need to, not that hard.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Phew on February 24, 2014, 05:20:03 pm
Main reason for me?

Multis

for battle its not a bad system, but for siege its horrible. There is just nothing that makes you want to leave the game more, then trying your ass off, killing 10-20 in 6 mins, and getting nothing for it.

Fun aside this is an xp game, we are all here to grind our chars, nothing screams "k, fuck siege, time for battle" more then having an amazing rnd, and not getting rewarded for it.

And now that so few people play, more often then not, siege usually goes down a lil something like this

Rnd 1: defense, you do amazing, try ur ass of, but unfortunately lose in the last min, possibly due to team, possibly due to unbalanced map. you lost, but you did save flag a bunch of times....valor goes to? usually noone, anoher reason siege is unrewarding, but when it does go out, it rarly goes to the people saving the flag, it goes to the people that leave their teammates to rack up kills on the wall or enemy spawn.

Rnd 2: k, so rnd 1 was frustrating, no biggie, you have a good team and your attacking now...you are doing well.....goddamn it..TOO WELL SLOW DOWN OR people will leave...too late, people already leaving, hurry get to the flag b4 its too late....your at flag, its dropping,,,soo close, almost there,,,boom!! yes, u won!!

"teams unfair" GODFUCKING DAMMIT THERE IS ONLY A 2 PLAYER DIFFERENCE FFS!!!

Rnd 3: back to defense...k screw it, i know im gonna lose this anyway...go for valor. you head for the walls, and for whatever reason, everyone fallows you....flag is ninja capped

Rnd 4: well if they can ninja cap it...i can too,...so you sneak around, screw helping ur team, screw getting point or kills, drop the flag, thats all that matters...haha u are there, no one sees you, its dropping..annnnnnd, DONE IT DROPPED!! U WON SUCCESS!!!

"teams are not fair"

and cuz u ninjad instead of fighting on the wall....valor if any, goes to....well, not you going after the actual objectives u can bet that

so u just spent all that time on a x1....its the equivalent of getting stuck with thee absolute worst team in battle mode, where you just know you are gonna keep getting steam rolled and stay on x1 for 30 min to an hour...which is a battle players worst nightmare ( besides the actual knightmare of course )

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

True story, happens all the time, very frustrating, very unrewarding, very pointless...yeah, it can be fun to play, ultimately ruined by the fact you need xp to grow, and the xp system in this mode is HIGHLY FLAWED

This is the most accurate description of NA2 I've ever read. Bravo Plumbo.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Penitent on February 24, 2014, 05:21:41 pm
I actually disagree with most of the points here.  I get MORE xp on siege than battle.  I almost always have a multi, and if I drop to 1x it's only for 1 or 2 rounds.  On battle I always seem to be on the losing team...

Also, most of the maps are fairly balanced now.  There's a ton of new maps and many of the older ones were tweaked.  If you play smart and use teamwork, you can win on either offense or defense on all maps.  Sometimes one team has a slight advantage, but that's the same for battle too.  It's a challenge to overcome, but doable.

People should give it another chance.  Muy divertido.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Snufalufagus on February 26, 2014, 04:39:47 am
I definitely come and try often turtler. Just don't have lots of peeps to play with and i lose so much time waiting for people....  Will try though.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Horns_Archive on February 26, 2014, 05:24:55 am
"Bring back ladders and we'll talk" - every cRPG player ever
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Konrax on February 26, 2014, 06:56:21 am
They should give people a higher chance to get valour on siege to compensate for the significantly longer round times / gear costs associated with that.

Right now getting valour on siege is very difficult.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Phew on February 26, 2014, 02:43:10 pm
Right now getting valour on siege while actually contributing to your team is very difficult.

Fixed for you. Siege valor isn't that hard to get, unfortunately the easiest way to get it is to totally ignore the flag and run around on the walls killing archers/etc. So if you actually want to try to capture/defend the flag, then yes, valor is hard to get.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Jona on February 26, 2014, 06:55:24 pm
Fixed for you. Siege valor isn't that hard to get, unfortunately the easiest way to get it is to totally ignore the flag and run around on the walls killing archers/etc. So if you actually want to try to capture/defend the flag, then yes, valor is hard to get.

Arguably, valor is quite difficult to get as an attacker. Defense almost always has a higher average score, and since valor is calculated for the entire server, attackers are at a disadvantage. Of course there is also the option to try and help your team by ninja-ing the flag, in which case you will most likely (assuming you are a good ninja) meet very little resistance, and therefore receive little score. Like camping the flag on defense, it is the more helpful strategy to your team (debatable, perhaps, but usually it is nice to try and ninja at least once per round) but less likely to give you any significant amount of points. Valor can be easy on defense if you play the map right. Block a significant chokepoint, and the enemy has to come to you. Cut them all down, and they keep coming back. Of course no one man can hold off an entire army, so this is where someone needs to give up trying for valor and hang back at the flag, or cover other chokepoints. If everyone on defense rushes to the main gate or path of entry, then that leaves you very open to ninjas... it's a risk-reward scenario, unfortunately. Would be nice if you got rewarded for playing smart, but I frankly don't see how that can be possible.

Rewarding points for standing near the flag just promotes leeching whilst sitting next to the flag, and frankly you want to try and slow down the attackers by fighting them on the walls as much as possible. If it is a constant fight on the flag, with attackers meeting no resistance up until that point, defense might eventually get overrun, depending on the map's spawns. Ideally attackers would get points for the amount of time they spend in the flag's proximity... so even if there are several defenders on the flag, and it isn't being capped, that man can still get rewarded for his efforts. On the defensive side of things, perhaps any score you would receive from combat gets multiplied if you are within the flag proximity, so  you have to be a part of the action at the flag to get rewarded. But once again, in my opinion it would be nice if we could encourage defenders to fight on the walls to hold off the attackers as long as possible, and then fall back to the flag only when the time is right. That would be the tricky part with rewarding the smart players on defense.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: karasu on February 26, 2014, 07:05:39 pm
Main reason?

Clan stacks.

No one likes to play constantly on x1 and lose.

Be it Grey Order or DRZ.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Latvian on February 26, 2014, 07:07:55 pm
Main reason?

Clan stacks.

No one likes to play constantly on x1 and lose.

Be it Grey Order or DRZ.
oooor live off valours like me :)
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Phew on February 26, 2014, 07:09:16 pm
wall of text

On a fully populated server, the best strategy for defense is to hold gates/ladders/walls/etc. to slow down the flow of attackers to the flag. On NA2 with ~10 defenders, the only viable strategy for defenders is for everyone to sit on the flag. Which is boring, so several defenders always choose to go solo on the walls and valor farm (I'm guilty of this whenever I'm on defense of a hard-to-defend castle).

It's one of the many reasons I thought Conquest was the ideal game mode; the "action" naturally gravitated toward the flags, so you didn't have to choose between helping your team or having fun. Of course the multiplier+valor system is a horrible match for conquest (should just be straight points->XP/gold, with bonuses for capturing/defending objectives at the end of each round).

I'm so sad Conquest got scrapped. It showed serious promise, combining the best elements of battle and siege without the worst drawbacks of either.
Title: Re: Siege
Post by: Jona on February 26, 2014, 10:01:17 pm
On a fully populated server, the best strategy for defense is to hold gates/ladders/walls/etc. to slow down the flow of attackers to the flag. On NA2 with ~10 defenders, the only viable strategy for defenders is for everyone to sit on the flag. Which is boring, so several defenders always choose to go solo on the walls and valor farm (I'm guilty of this whenever I'm on defense of a hard-to-defend castle).

It's one of the many reasons I thought Conquest was the ideal game mode; the "action" naturally gravitated toward the flags, so you didn't have to choose between helping your team or having fun. Of course the multiplier+valor system is a horrible match for conquest (should just be straight points->XP/gold, with bonuses for capturing/defending objectives at the end of each round).

I'm so sad Conquest got scrapped. It showed serious promise, combining the best elements of battle and siege without the worst drawbacks of either.

Yeah definitely feel similarly about conquest's scrapping... would also make for a great late(r)-game mode... when the mod's population has all but disappeared and people can't decide between battle or siege with there being only 1 server left. :P   So in other words... would be great to implement in NA now.  :mrgreen: