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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Penitent on February 17, 2014, 04:56:37 pm

Title: New Knockdown
Post by: Penitent on February 17, 2014, 04:56:37 pm
I know it's a random chance, so maybe I was just unlucky -- but I played all evening yesterday (about 3 hours) and got exactly TWO knockdowns with a +3 Warhammer, 8 PS -- the whole time.

Maybe I was hitting with all body shots?  I don't know.  It seems remarkably low though.

Anyone else that can share experiences?
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 17, 2014, 05:51:53 pm
I know it's a random chance, so maybe I was just unlucky -- but I played all evening yesterday (about 3 hours) and got exactly TWO knockdowns with a +3 Warhammer, 8 PS -- the whole time.

Maybe I was hitting with all body shots?  I don't know.  It seems remarkably low though.

Anyone else that can share experiences?

I was using your same warhammer (only 7PS), and did notice fewer overall knockdowns. However, peasants seemed to get knocked down a lot, and overheads were dropping even pretty fat players with decent regularity. My only suggestions would be to overhead a lot, and adjust your longitudinal camera angle so left swings hit the head more often. And of course hold for ~0.5s when you can.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Penitent on February 17, 2014, 06:28:47 pm
I was using your same warhammer (only 7PS), and did notice fewer overall knockdowns. However, peasants seemed to get knocked down a lot, and overheads were dropping even pretty fat players with decent regularity. My only suggestions would be to overhead a lot, and adjust your longitudinal camera angle so left swings hit the head more often. And of course hold for ~0.5s when you can.

Oops, I have 7 PS too.  I accidentally buffed myself.
I'll give it some more testing, I was just alarmed at first.  It's random though, so hard to test.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 17, 2014, 06:42:10 pm
Also, refer to your warhammer as "Plumbobane". Although I don't think I've got any knockdowns with it against Plumbo since the patch, it still lives up to its namesake. Dude can block my 101 speed sword all day, but I guess the hammer puts the fear in him. I can relate; I go full retard around long mauls.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: the real god emperor on February 17, 2014, 06:54:43 pm
Old knockdown was just easymoding , people were hiding behind their shields and whenever they catch a moment they were using their knockhitkickhit combo and getting retarded kills, now they will have to aim to head and legs for knockdowns , so its more skill based.

Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 17, 2014, 06:57:20 pm
Old knockdown was just easymoding , people were hiding behind their shields and whenever they catch a moment they were using their knockhitkickhit combo and getting retarded kills, now they will have to aim to head and legs for knockdowns , so its more skill based.

This probably affects pole and 2h knockdown weapons more than 1h; most 1h animations naturally hit the head anyway.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: the real god emperor on February 17, 2014, 07:04:05 pm
This probably affects pole and 2h knockdown weapons more than 1h; most 1h animations naturally hit the head anyway.

But they re easier to avoid, so you need to make different moves (feinting while turning around for ex.) , which will usually not hit the head.

Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 17, 2014, 07:57:16 pm
Also, refer to your warhammer as "Plumbobane". Although I don't think I've got any knockdowns with it on Plumbo since the patch, it still lives up to its namesake. Dude can block my 101 speed sword all day, but I guess the hammer puts the fear in him. I can relate; I go full retard around long mauls.

Interesting...so you're Plumbo on the strat map. 

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 17, 2014, 08:02:04 pm
Interesting...so you're Plumbo on the strat map. 

No, Plumbo is Plumbo. I borrow this hammer from amoury specifically when I play NA2 and see Plumbo is on, because no mortal weapon can harm him (loomed plate, lots of HP).

Edited my prior post for clarity.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Penitent on February 17, 2014, 08:02:52 pm
Plumbo is a pretty tough sucker, I have to agree.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 17, 2014, 08:10:25 pm
Oh I thought there was someone named plumbo...just thought that maybe that was you incongito.

Neverminding. 
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Leesin on February 17, 2014, 08:31:45 pm
I have 6 PS with +3 military hammer and I seem to get a lot of knockdowns, I guess I do use a lot of overhead swings combined with left swings, meaning I probably hit heads quite often. I'd say if you have 7 PS and a +3 warhammer and youre not getting many knockdowns, ever, youre not hitting their heads lol.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Inglorious on February 17, 2014, 10:16:59 pm
I guess the hammer puts the fear in him. I can relate; I go full retard around long mauls.

The War Hammer scares the hell out of me, when HG and EON are on same team i think "awh hell". I've wanted one for about a year myself.

I'm glad to know I have the same effect on you as you have on me :D clearly we are soul mates
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: sF_Guardian on February 17, 2014, 10:33:34 pm
Still getting lots n' lots of knocky knockdowns with a Bar Mace, doesn't feel like anything changed.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 17, 2014, 10:35:45 pm
Still getting lots n' lots of knocky knockdowns with a Bar Mace, doesn't feel like anything changed.

Bar mace is heavier than the blunt 1h's.  I think the change was mainly aimed at affecting 1h's with knockdown.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: StonedSteel on February 17, 2014, 10:53:07 pm
Also, refer to your warhammer as "Plumbobane". Although I don't think I've got any knockdowns with it against Plumbo since the patch, it still lives up to its namesake. Dude can block my 101 speed sword all day, but I guess the hammer puts the fear in him. I can relate; I go full retard around long mauls.

lolol its true, the sword i feel at ease, and because im at ease, i can play \ block better.

knockdown is one of those things for me, i guess i over think it, knowing that one hit,,,just one, could turn into a knockdown kick knockdown kick knockdown die cycle
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Penitent on February 17, 2014, 11:12:23 pm
Bar mace is heavier than the blunt 1h's.  I think the change was mainly aimed at affecting 1h's with knockdown.

If this is the case, I may just go back with the steel pick.  Same damage, way faster.
I'll not be too hasty though.  I probably just have to practice my head shots (or even leg shots...)
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 17, 2014, 11:16:02 pm
If this is the case, I may just go back with the steel pick.  Same damage, way faster.
I'll not be too hasty though.  I probably just have to practice my head shots (or even leg shots...)

Even if you only get a ~10% effective knockdown, that's still a 10% chance for basically a free kill (at least on NA2, where roll apparently still hasn't been implemented), thanks to KD->hit->kick->hit combo. Also, the utility of the warhammer thrust attack can't be overstated.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Jarlek on February 17, 2014, 11:48:26 pm
So overall another nerf to 1h?

Hah, good thing I abandoned that a long time ago. Gotta love Mallet and Iron Mace. Anyone selling a long hafted mace (spiked or knobbed) by any chance?
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Elindor on February 18, 2014, 02:41:37 am
lolol its true, the sword i feel at ease, and because im at ease, i can play \ block better.

knockdown is one of those things for me, i guess i over think it, knowing that one hit,,,just one, could turn into a knockdown kick knockdown kick knockdown die cycle

I totally do this...like against a barmace I just freak out and and forget how to block :(

Which, it SEEMED before like barmaces' knocked down at least 75% of the time, so if they do it less now that is a welcome change imho :)
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Armycook_of_KSantiago on February 18, 2014, 04:54:23 am
2h&poles can just aim for the feet to get more knockdowns, both head hits and leg, feet hits are easier to knockdown
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Jarlek on February 18, 2014, 04:58:24 am
2h&poles can just aim for the feet to get more knockdowns, both head hits and leg, feet hits are easier to knockdown
Wait. I always aim at the head anyways with my weapons. Are you telling me my mallet & long hafted knobbed mace (STILL UNLOOMED! SELL ME YOURS TODAY!) will get a HIGHER knockdown chance now. And leg aiming is easy to spam already so that's even MORE likely to knockdown too!


Damn, those fuckers actually listened to my suggestions regarding knockdown apart from the "having high damage is already a benefit in itself, giving THEM the higher knockdown chance is stupid" suggestion. Awww, how some people still consider 1h viable (fuck, even OP in some peoples minds) is just hillarous.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Clockworkkiller on February 18, 2014, 06:57:43 am
Man, the warhammer used to be the SHIT

Fucking was my favorite weapon, the KD plus 7ps wrecked everything. An the stab always caught people off guard

Now I just find it too slow, I can't seem to swing fast enough, even if I turn while swinging. I just get torn to shreds by the agi guys and their swords. Maybe I just suck now...


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: dreadnok on February 18, 2014, 02:17:38 pm
However long blunt weapons that do a fraction of the war hammer damage knockdown constantly. Or pokes from 2h blunt always knockdown even when they glance. I think overall 1h damage has been lowered except for stabs
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 18, 2014, 03:21:33 pm
Fucking was my favorite weapon, the KD plus 7ps wrecked everything. An the stab always caught people off guard

Now I just find it too slow, I can't seem to swing fast enough, even if I turn while swinging. I just get torn to shreds by the agi guys and their swords. Maybe I just suck now...

This issue isn't unique to the warhammer; the average player skill has gotten so high that even below average players block slow weapons with ease. Now most 1h players are using 100+ speed swords, most 2h players are using LS/HBS at 100+ speed, and the most popular polearms are 95+ speed (war spear etc.), although polearm animations seem to be faster than 2h and 1h to the point where a 95 speed pole seems as fast as a Longsword.

However, most people still don't have great awareness during a fight, so the best use for the warhammer has always been sneaking up on people and cracking them in the skull. It may be poor in 1v1, but it's the best "support" weapon in 1h.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Gurnisson on February 18, 2014, 03:27:36 pm
but it's the best "support" weapon in 1h.

I find long 1hs to be better for that role. The likes of ACS and NCS are great for getting people in their back in mass melee.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Phew on February 18, 2014, 03:49:12 pm
I find long 1hs to be better for that role. The likes of ACS and NCS are great for getting people in their back in mass melee.

You sneak up on your typical heavy armor 2h hero with a NCS, and at best you slash em for 10 damage, then they turn around and 1-shot you. You sneak up on them with a warhammer, and you can potentially pull off the hit->KD->hit->kick-hit combo for basically a free kill. Then again, I only play siege, where the short reach of the warhammer is a strength. Those 100+ length swords are unwieldy in a narrow corridor, but I'm sure they have their place on Battle.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Gurnisson on February 18, 2014, 03:55:02 pm
True, maces are better than longer 1h swords for siege mass melee. Thought more of battle myself.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: HarryCrumb on February 20, 2014, 06:20:35 pm
As someone who has used 1h blunt weapons for a long time, and most recently the warhammer, they are still all viable. Played yesterday for a few hours and didn't notice a difference in knock downs.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Penitent on February 20, 2014, 06:45:20 pm
As someone who has used 1h blunt weapons for a long time, and most recently the warhammer, they are still all viable. Played yesterday for a few hours and didn't notice a difference in knock downs.


That's so crazy...I don't doubt you, but I've gotten a total of 5 knockdowns in 4 days of playing.  I must hit only body shots like ALL the time.  I do remember getting clean headshots several times, but the opponent just died more often than not. :)

I'm glad to hear it's still working out though.
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Rebelyell on February 21, 2014, 12:55:38 am
Wait. I always aim at the head anyways with my weapons. Are you telling me my mallet & long hafted knobbed mace (STILL UNLOOMED! SELL ME YOURS TODAY!) will get a HIGHER knockdown chance now. And leg aiming is easy to spam already so that's even MORE likely to knockdown too!


Damn, those fuckers actually listened to my suggestions regarding knockdown apart from the "having high damage is already a benefit in itself, giving THEM the higher knockdown chance is stupid" suggestion. Awww, how some people still consider 1h viable (fuck, even OP in some peoples minds) is just hillarous.


everyone listen to you
especially when you call them fuckers
Title: Re: New Knockdown
Post by: Jarlek on February 21, 2014, 03:37:01 pm

everyone listen to you
especially when you call them fuckers
Hail to the king, baby.