cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Templar_Steevee on February 06, 2014, 11:31:06 pm

Title: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 06, 2014, 11:31:06 pm
Suprise, archers got nerfed again  :mrgreen:

After last patch I noticed that number of archers felt down and there is way less QQ about archers.

Why?

Armor is protecting ppl better against projectiles.

Situation we have now is a bit closer to realism. If you have shit bow and cut dmg arrows guy with hi armor ratio will laught when you shot him.
Now most archers are using at least 4 pd bow, because with it you can deal dmg.

It's nice to see when a guy in plate or armor close to it can survive 3 shots (long bow+bodkins), it makes game funnier from both sides and makes that ppl starts using good looking heavy armors.

This nerf IMO is a best way to nerf archery and not making it unplayable. Pew-pewing ppl to death is still possible :D

Can't wait how is archery going to looks like in strat, because i heard about some changes in archery we will have only in strat. 8-)

Have a nice day and remember, if you have a shield, don't forget to shield up  :wink:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Leesin on February 06, 2014, 11:33:10 pm
As someone who has played a lot of HA I fully support this 'nerf' ( tbh I would personally call it a much needed armour balance/buff ), it doesn't effect ranged so much vs the lighter armours but really shines through with the heavy armours like it should.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Prpavi on February 06, 2014, 11:56:18 pm
Nice patch, a knight is finally a knight again.

As for HA I am completely useless to my team and cannot help in any other way than bump enemies  :mrgreen: will grind 7 more mil and retire @lvl34

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Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: HappyPhantom on February 07, 2014, 12:00:16 am
I must now be disciplined and not shoot horses in the face as they charge head on, because now I will most surely ALWAYS lose. :(
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Perverz on February 07, 2014, 12:12:23 am
expected!
sinec i joined cRPG inf cry about archers.

fucking pathetic!!!



btw im not archer ;)


ride or die
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: San on February 07, 2014, 01:10:38 am
Ranged damage was changed twice. Right now, it should be in-between old values which simply multiplied your damage and the change that made high armour great against low damage ranged. The most recent change was within the past few days. Funnily enough, that made archery the least affected in comparison to throwing and xbows.

Low PD bows can still stun armour now, but the highest damage attacks had their maximum damages decreased. High damage ranged were doing good damage regardless, so I doubt people would notice to the effect of destroying gameplay.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Rebelyell on February 07, 2014, 01:16:36 am
yesterday I got shoot in to face with heavy xbow or arbalest and I survived
 best pach ever
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Angantyr on February 07, 2014, 08:51:13 am
Wasn't this less a nerf than a patch equalling ranged damage with melee damage against high tier armor?

Now it's even more rock, scissors, paper, as ranged will have to teamwork with its own can-opening infantry, instead of more or less just ignoring armor as hitherto.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 07, 2014, 09:27:12 am
On some maps i can do shit, but on other ones, when i can shoot more than 4 arrows per round archer can still be a player that push your team to victory.

"good archer is dead archer" i heard that long time ago on ts. But even after last patch good archer is worth multi for your team if he will survive long enought ;)
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Jeraz on February 07, 2014, 09:37:46 am
I agree that it is a good patch, but i feel that i need a little more damage, not much but just a little. The reason for this is that i have had multipal situations where i have shot 4/5 arrows in some on and he was still able to reach/kill me. I think surviving 4 arrows is already a bit dodgy but 5 is really annoying.
Having to shoot 5 shots with a longbow takes a long time and unless it's a open map/ i'm on a roof i'm never going to get more then 4/5 shots off before someone reaches me.
That wouldn't annoy me if i could run away but most people are also faster then me (bodkins + longbow weighs a lot). i know this is to prevent kitting and i like that but i'm now forced to use heavyer armor so i can actually have a change in duels against those who reach me.

But if nothing chances it's fine for me, like steevee said, the number of archers has dramasticly increased + i'm not useless, so i can life with that  :wink:.



Edit: After playing for a few days i came to the conclusion thats its more balanced then i tought.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Molly on February 07, 2014, 10:04:53 am
Topic is like a trick question: Archer do not have feelings!
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 07, 2014, 11:11:05 am
Topic is like a trick question: Archer do not have feelings!
archers have feelings, we hate everything what live, and i also remeber names to be able to revange  :twisted:
Some of us also have a blacklist like me  :twisted:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: QuisUtDeus on February 07, 2014, 11:39:32 am
Foot Archer damage seems to be ok right now, but since I am no archery expert this is only speaking from the receiving end. Starting with 60 body armor you really notice protection by that armor, which is as is should be as the OP stated.

However, horse archery got hit too hard by the last change. In a test which Peso and me were conducting, i could take way too many arrows from HA.

Solution: Decrease the damage reduction HA get from being on horse a little bit. Don't get me wrong here, I don't want horse archery to be the dominant factor on EU1, but it feels a little over the top when a class gets completely obliterated by a patch.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 07, 2014, 11:48:35 am
what bow and arrows your friend were using?
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 07, 2014, 01:04:59 pm
Now ranged got nerfed and with that my throwing daggers became complete garbage aswell, i guess its a price worth paying.
But also with the nerf the amount of archers has reduced, and cav risen. Now theres always a shit ton of cav spawnraping, oneshotting and plowing through infantry. And since the ranged amounts have been reduced cav can roam much more freely. I feel we need a cavnerf to follow up, or maybe i'll just have to switch to permanently playing with either pike or hoplite.


Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Kafein on February 07, 2014, 01:49:39 pm
Now ranged got nerfed and with that my throwing daggers became complete garbage aswell, i guess its a price worth paying.
But also with the nerf the amount of archers has reduced, and cav risen. Now theres always a shit ton of cav spawnraping, oneshotting and plowing through infantry. And since the ranged amounts have been reduced cav can roam much more freely. I feel we need a cavnerf to follow up, or maybe i'll just have to switch to permanently playing with either pike or hoplite.

With more cav comes more pikes and hoplites then more generalist melee to deal with the pikes and hoplites, I think that's fine.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 07, 2014, 01:57:28 pm
With more cav comes more pikes and hoplites then more generalist melee to deal with the pikes and hoplites, I think that's fine.

The thing is, i never see many people use pikes/spears. Usually there are more byzantiums with poking weapons than the rest of the server. And now many of us are playing alts etc, so even less anticav on the server. And whenever i see people use pikes they barely use them to fight cav, but only focus on infantry :(
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Hirlok on February 07, 2014, 02:01:35 pm
well, we are close to uselessness again where we had been for months. Great patch.

Horses survive close range headshots with pd8 mw bow bow or pd6 mw longbow, both with bodkins, agi guy in medium armor takes 3+ shots to take down, etc.

But it was to be expected, and we had a few weeks of fun before, so be it.  :rolleyes:

To be honest I care less and less - for an occasional trolling session the game is still fun (because of the hilarious people on NA, thanks all you dickheads for countless funny moments!!!), and apart from that I am starting to look for other things to put my time into... quite a bit of real life stuff coming up, books to finish, etc. - so the nerf is welcome since it makes playing c-rpg much less tempting...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Kafein on February 07, 2014, 02:05:23 pm
The thing is, i never see many people use pikes/spears. Usually there are more byzantiums with poking weapons than the rest of the server. And now many of us are playing alts etc, so even less anticav on the server. And whenever i see people use pikes they barely use them to fight cav, but only focus on infantry :(

Back when I played cav, the amount of long poking weapons really changed how I had to play, even when they didn't actively seek cav. It's way more effective as pikeman to bait cav rather than maintain it away.


well, we are close to uselessness again where we had been for months. Great patch.

Horses survive headshots with pd8 mw bow bow or pd6 mw longbow, both with bodkins, agi guy in medium armor takes 3+ shots to take down, etc.

But it was to be expected, and we had a few weeks of fun before, so be it.  :rolleyes:

To be honest I care less and less - for an occasional trolling session the game is still fun (because of the hilarious people on NA, thanks all you dickheads for countless funny moments!!!), and apart from that I am starting to look for other things to put my time into... quite a bit of real life stuff coming up, books to finish, etc. - so the nerf is welcome since it makes playing c-rpg much less tempting...  :mrgreen:

Ne me quitte pas... not
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: San on February 07, 2014, 02:21:35 pm
Wasn't this less a nerf than a patch equalling ranged damage with melee damage against high tier armor?

Now it's even more rock, scissors, paper, as ranged will have to teamwork with its own can-opening infantry, instead of more or less just ignoring armor as hitherto.

There was a ninja patch at the beginning of this week that changed ranged again, negating the old change that made armour very good against low-mid damage shots. Right now, ranged is using the same values as melee against armour. No damage multiplier like it was before, but neither is there any artificial nerf against armour like it was over the weekend for a few days. Even so, 14% damage from PD allow archers to still deal slightly more damage than the equivalent melee non-held hit.

Also, for the guy complaining about throwing daggers, that weapon and other low tear throwing weapons are more effective now (by like 1 point, but still).
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 07, 2014, 07:46:13 pm
My opinion about bows is same from begining: long bow - best bow, enemies will always feel if they get shot from it (rus bow is also ok, but i just love long bow :D )
If you want to kill, you need to pay for it, it's simple.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: dreadnok on February 07, 2014, 11:35:09 pm
Suprise, archers got nerfed again  :mrgreen:

After last patch I noticed that number of archers felt down and there is way less QQ about archers.

Why?

Armor is protecting ppl better against projectiles.

Situation we have now is a bit closer to realism. If you have shit bow and cut dmg arrows guy with hi armor ratio will laught when you shot him.
Now most archers are using at least 4 pd bow, because with it you can deal dmg.

It's nice to see when a guy in plate or armor close to it can survive 3 shots (long bow+bodkins), it makes game funnier from both sides and makes that ppl starts using good looking heavy armors.

This nerf IMO is a best way to nerf archery and not making it unplayable. Pew-pewing ppl to death is still possible :D

Can't wait how is archery going to looks like in strat, because i heard about some changes in archery we will have only in strat. 8-)

Have a nice day and remember, if you have a shield, don't forget to shield up  :wink:

Hush up and go play one of the many piece of shit first person shooter garbage.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 08, 2014, 08:41:59 am
Hush up and go play one of the many piece of shit first person shooter garbage.
I don't like point and click games, but i love archery system in c-rpg.

You are probably NA, so there is no reason to add you to my blacklist  :cry:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Hirlok on February 08, 2014, 11:34:46 am
You are probably NA, so there is no reason to add you to my blacklist  :cry:

I will shoot him for you, he actually likes it, esp. death by buttshot  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Tzar on February 08, 2014, 12:15:58 pm
Archery weak buff archery..... herp derp!!

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Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 08, 2014, 04:26:25 pm
Noone said that archery is weak and unplayable.

2 days ago i also got quite impressive kd after 3 rounds 17:0 (i also killed 2 temmates)  :twisted:

But worst thing is that most ppl are looking at archery, and i can even say more, at all clases, looking at hi level players like one you posted here.

Also they are taking out exceptions like single screen shots (situation we have here)

As i can say about archers in this game that they are powerfull, but on some town maps and close area spaces they are quite useless, and abilities in melee are quite crappy (it's ok, because ranged are units killing from range).
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: dreadnok on February 08, 2014, 04:29:21 pm
I will shoot him for you, he actually likes it, esp. death by buttshot  :mrgreen:

Ha! Hiro, I never have the heart to hit  such a cutie as yourself :)
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: karasu on February 09, 2014, 03:04:33 am
Archery weak buff archery..... herp derp!!

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And that's the difference between skill and generic whine.  :wink:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Adamar on February 09, 2014, 08:23:57 pm
It always was, somehow mature people still think that one or two good score results from lvl 34 builds make the class. But if you want to talk about generics, the class is generally shit, as always.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 09, 2014, 10:58:45 pm
Atm it's more support class. If someone want to kill lots of ppl, he can try other clases.

If you want to kill lots of enemies as an archer yo have to got some luck, and lots of skill. Archery in c-rpg is not a point and click shooter easy mode.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Tzar on February 09, 2014, 11:01:21 pm
Archery in c-rpg is not a point and click shooter easy mode.

Huehuehue....

Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 09, 2014, 11:28:03 pm
rly???...
Have you tried archery after last patch?

Can you also tell me why you do not agree with my opinion?
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Duty Calls on February 09, 2014, 11:34:58 pm
I agree with you steevee, I feel nerfed..
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Tzar on February 09, 2014, 11:52:56 pm
Dont go full retard Steveee... You where being such a champ earlier..

Also yes, archery is easy mode, its a point an click adventure when high lvl.

AN YES WE KNOW LOW LVL ARCHERY IS CRAP  :!:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 10, 2014, 12:00:31 am
Dont go full retard Steveee... You where being such a champ earlier..

Also yes, archery is easy mode, its a point an click adventure when high lvl.

AN YES WE KNOW LOW LVL ARCHERY IS CRAP  :!:
On hi lvl archery is easier than on 30, but all i wrote here is to show how crappy archery is ATM. If hi lvl bundle of sticks playing this game for few years as dedicated archer have some ploblems with killing, guys making retirements and not going over lvl 31 are having quite hard times.

I agree with you steevee, I feel nerfed..

Shooting low armored agi whores is still almost as it was before, difference is noticable when your tagget is well armored.

As na example I'll use hi lvl str player Butan.

Before patch I were killing him in about 4 shots.

Today i shot him 5 times and he were still standing. Maybe you will say that's not much, but he also got 2 arrows more from my clanmate, after that he killed 2 more guys. (not all shots were clean body shots, but we were shooting at him from about 10 meters).
Both of us were using long bow and bodkins - most deadly archer weapon against armored players.

As you can see output dmg is way lower if target will have good armor. We should also remember that most of melee players habe fully loomed equipment.

Imo this patch gots the best solution about dealing dmg (read: nerfing ranged)

But now there is some kind of problem IMO:
To use heaviest armor in game you need only 16 STR (18 for heaviest gloves, but not many ppl are using them). It should be a bit higher IMO.
Why i think that? Answer is simple: Guy in full plate can easilly catch an archer using rags with almost no weight. It should looks a bit different.

Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Tzar on February 10, 2014, 12:18:48 am
Steevee, listen here.

It takes me 7/9 hits with a mw longsword to kill Butan, also note thats up close an personal, not like the shoooter your playing...

Anyways, risk vs reward are just fine, if nut too fine for current archery.

But its nice to see plate armors being a good choice besides for pure looks.

Yeah i agree, Heavy armor needs more str requirements. Just like xbow needs a PD skill.

Also can you give us a list of the so called high level archers who quit or retired? Cause i havent noticed anyone quit  :?
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 10, 2014, 12:37:48 am
Also can you give us a list of the so called high level archers who quit or retired? Cause i havent noticed anyone quit  :?

You know why noone of hi lvl archers quit? Because this is only a next nerf, nothing new for archers. Good hi lvl ones are just getting accostumed to nerfs and trying to do their best instead of whining on forum.

There are way less archers on servers than before patch, because ones who stop playing that class were mostly alts for fun, because those tiny bows were kind of op and too easy to use. After nerf those kind of "holiday" archers came back to their normal clases.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: XyNox on February 10, 2014, 03:08:03 am
lol Steevee, you should know better than wasting your time "discussing" archery with Tzar. I am so glad that I dont have to put up with such individuals anymore and am thankful to be privileged to discuss such matters with people who actually have clue what they are talking about now.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Adamar on February 10, 2014, 03:44:31 am
lol Steevee, you should know better than wasting your time "discussing" archery with Tzar. I am so glad that I dont have to put up with such individuals anymore and am thankful to be privileged to discuss such matters with people who actually have clue what they are talking about now.

How'd you do that?
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: XyNox on February 10, 2014, 05:15:41 pm
How'd you do that?

I promised blowjobs if they would accept me.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Adamar on February 10, 2014, 06:54:28 pm
my old friendcher
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: San on February 10, 2014, 10:54:07 pm
Recently learned that the EU servers are using the old ranged numbers where a lot of armour negates arrows. Wait for the upcoming server reset within a few days to a week.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Ronin on February 13, 2014, 12:04:07 pm
I have nothing against anything, but the title should be changed to "Level 35 Archer feelings after last patch" :wink:
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 13, 2014, 12:12:54 pm
All I wrote here is from point of view of not a hi lvl archer (at least at the begining).

I alredy get accostumed to changes and can do really good job while playing :)
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Ronin on February 13, 2014, 12:19:43 pm
Didn't you say before (somewhere) that it is because of your OP character, not the archery itself? :P
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 13, 2014, 02:34:21 pm
archery is not op, i'm doing good because of my OP character and experience of being an archer for 3 years. Steevee were never other class than an archer, gen 13, veteran title and lvl 35. I think that's i'm doing good no matter what nerfs are comming. Also i didn't feel to much last nerf, because dmg output on longbow and bodkins is really nice ^^
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Lamk on February 17, 2014, 11:49:10 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 18, 2014, 10:07:04 am
(click to show/hide)
As you can see here, 4 of those archers are from same clan, and most probably those are alts or skip the fun characters.

Last days we can see increase of archers amount. What's the reason? STRATEGUS
Two good archers in strat are sometimes more worth than 4 decent melee.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Tzar on February 18, 2014, 10:14:52 am
Two good archers in strat are sometimes more worth than 4 decent melee.

Yet archers keep claiming that they are underpowered huehuehue the irony...
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: agile on February 18, 2014, 10:44:33 am
(click to show/hide)

One of them is me and I'm a main, other ones are alts.

On topic: I don't mind the nerf at all, archery is still effective (been an archer for basically all of my crpg career except like 2-3 gens)
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Templar_Steevee on February 18, 2014, 01:13:56 pm
Yet archers keep claiming that they are underpowered huehuehue the irony...
I never said that archers are UP. Archers telling that are just retards without any sense of humor or realism..., just like you Tzar  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Ronin on February 19, 2014, 04:04:43 pm
Yet archers keep claiming that they are underpowered huehuehue the irony...
It's due to the nature of strategus battles. Eu1 and strategus has entirely different elements. I would explain what archers and infantry are good at, both at strategus and Eu1 but I would be wasting my time explaining it to you. So, I won't bother. I prefer to keep it to myself.
Title: Re: Archer feelings after last patch
Post by: Sniger on February 21, 2014, 01:09:15 pm
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