Before I begin, I’m going to preempt dedicated archers, long-ranged weapon “specialists,” and ninjas and tell you right now that you will read this, hate it, and click on that little red minus in the upper corner. But remember that at one point, cRPG in NA needed to start a second battle server because the NA1 was always full, siege was always full, and the duel server was basically the “waiting lobby” for people with bros in combat: “THERE’S A FUCKING SPOT GET IN HERE NOW” *click**click**click**click**click* I’m sure EU was the same once upon a time, except with more servers.
So before you get nuts with delivering the flame on this post, please note that I am not writing this because “I hate ranged” or some shit. It is simply that I want to see the growth of this community again. I hate you nerds, but we’ve been around for a while, why stop and die now?
About this proposition:
Currently, the “tick” system (preset amount of gold/xp per minute) is a successful method for the duel server as well as for conducting Strategus official battles. However, it does not encourage the growth of the cRPG player base due to the extremely unforgiving experience for brand new players. The Golden Age “proximity” (gold/xp within a radius of you/teammate killing an opponent) gain system was a system that did NOT encourage strategy, but forced players in the public servers to conduct extremely efficient and close combat maneuvers and TACTICS.
The success of your team depended on which side could perform better as a large unit with an auxiliary force, instead of what the meta has currently dissolved into; “who can stay away from the battle while maintaining damage output.” In a nutshell, the proximity system was better suited to public servers, and not Strategus battles. While this proximity system discouraged sneaking around, or “kiting,” it did encourage every combatant engage in some form of close combat in order to maximize personal gain, and by proxy, team success.
(Can you believe ^that’s the tl;dr)
The Proximity system
What it is (was):
*Disclaimer: This system is what I remember from almost 4 years ago, even then I did not know all about how it worked. While details may be slightly off or mistaken, the general gist remains the same*
The proximity system as it was implemented was essentially a radius – or “ring” – around the location of the killing of each player in the server (death at the hands of an opponent). When your teammate made a kill, this xp/gold ring delivered gold and xp to each player account that was within a specific distance of that kill – essentially a “support xp/gold reward.” The killer made the most gain from that kill, gaining 100% of the xp/gold from the kill. Supporting players (other combatants within close proximity of the kill, would gain a certain percentage% of xp/gold from that kill (here is where my information gets fuzzy, because I don’t know exactly how much each supporting player got from the kill).
edit: I'd like to add that Proximity xp/gold gain STOPPED a few seconds after your own death. It does not persist after several seconds of your body registering as "dead." Therefore no one actually ran straight at where they "thought" the engagement would be and die there.
How it affected flow of combat:
The proximity system frequently resulted in major engagements occurring in multiple places throughout the map, depending on which direction the most significant (most ballsy, loudest, smartest or simply most face-shieldiest) players on each team conducted themselves. These players became the determining factor on where each engagement was fought throughout each map in the rotation. If, in the first round, we fought for control of a chokepoint in an alley, the next round will almost certainly see us fighting in a different location due to someone team-messaging “fuck that alley, let’s take them in the courtyard.” Tactics would change depending on the circumstances in which we fought, and brought a very organic feel to the conduct of combat, whether on a city or open-ish map.
Plain field maps; those vast, open wastelands that we currently hate? Those were fun back in the day. As it stands today, plain field maps serve to clear out servers, due to the mass amounts of ranged and cavalry that can simply remove themselves from combat and essentially dick around in the boonies and still maintain xp/gold income, especially when on a multiplier. On the proximity system, plain field maps were an almost guaranteed loss to the team that did not create an effective shield wall. Under the proximity system, shield walls in plain field maps were not a novelty, they were a requirement. If your team did not roll enough shielders, your team would see large casualties before closing the distance: Here, in the plain field maps archers, crossbowmen, throwers and other ranged units positively shined. You would see them taking cover behind the shield walls, and you would even see plate-bearing two-handed combatants with no shields standing in front of crossbowmen during their reloading periods. The teamwork and mutual sacrifice in plain field maps were something that is long dead in today’s Meta.
An illustration is this (http://youtu.be/FA2eddw768w?t=2m37s) video during the early beta, back in 2010, where you will see a large server cooperating within their means (WSE2 wasn’t even a glimmer in chadz and cmp’s eyes, hence no “walk” button to normalize the progression of the wall).
Obviously, as cool as I want my argument to sound, I must mention that no one can afford armor and good weapons at this point (literally 2 gold per proximity kill, I think 6 gold per personal kill), hence the lack of horses to change the flow of combat in any significant way.
How it affected fighting mentality and combat attitude (teamwork, cohesion, synergy™):
This system encouraged (some would say forced) each combatant who was looking to gain levels or build their gold reserves to engage in close combat alongside their teammates to maximize their personal gain. But a side effect of this motivation for personal gain was the fact that no matter how shitty, or low leveled your character was (I used a round cav shield + katana for god’s sake), you would always strive and commit yourself to your teams’ success by attempting to lend your weapon, shield or even face to support your teammates towards the success of the round, and hence the expansion of your own gold reserves, or the ascension of another level.
How it affected the meta:
Grinding then: Is it really grinding when you’re actually having fun? Being a peasant was one of the best learning experiences I had when first participating in the battles in cRPG. My hard-earned padded cloth (588 on the market now, 380 or something when I bought it: took a week of grinding) was purchase with pride and I used it in every skirmish and engagement where I hid behind the largest, platiest motherfucker I could find, and swing at the poor sod on the other team who cowered behind his shield from my teammates’ onslaught. Being a filthy fucking peasant still gave me a sense of achievement when my swing stunned the enemy long enough for a killing blow by my teammates.
Grinding now: Now the grind is truly what it feels like: Grinding. Over the course of time, we will sand down the divide between this level and the next by hiding in the corner and trying really hard not to get caught by the admins while we read a book or play Candy Crush on our phones.
Personally when I start a new character, I can only last so long being beaten down repeatedly with nothing to work for before I finally give up and hop back on my main for a while. Unfortunately, many newcomers to this mod do not have the luxury of a level 34 mounted infantry face-shielding APC/tank to run to in tears. They simply quit and never come back.
It is not fun playing a game where the most you can hope for is to run directly into combat and die, so you can spend your time doing more useful things. That is a major barrier to the long term commitment of anyone to a game. If it’s not fun, we will not play; simple as that. The proximity system enabled me to have a sense of purpose in the game: stay smart, stay useful, stay alive. I actually had something to do while I was alive in-game, and dying actually gave me a sense of “aw” instead of the run-of-the-mill “well, I’ve got better shit to do for the next 5 minutes,” that I’m positive is uttered with almost every single low-levelled death.
Population control:
Somewhat related to the Meta, proximity xp/gold gain in the public servers will see natural selection come into play. Since archers, crossbows and cavalry will see less of an experience and gold gain as direct result of their nature for not being directly in combat, we will begin to see fewer of these classes save the extremely dedicated or alternate characters. Instead of being forced to nerf archery, or horses, or lances (current stats should stay or be changed slightly, imo) or whatever the fuck we’ve been dicking around with for 3 years now, the playerbase will evolve on its own to see reduced numbers of cav and ranged and what-have-you, especially for APC/Tank horses (because upkeep will be present, instead of what we had before which was a one-time purchase expense). I’m not saying that these classes are a bane but in excess amounts, whether you like it or not, these “supporting” classes tend to dominate the server. Everyone wants to be the bestest at the game, then why not make the average footman the best class to play not through stats, but through the natural evolution of in-game culture?
Marketplace prices:
This one’s gonna be short: Marketplace prices *could* (not will) see a natural decline in prices. We don’t have to artificially attempt to take the money away by making stupid lotteries (of which, if you’ll note, the same people kept winning). The lotteries did not actually take the money away; rather consolidate it into the richest people in the game who could invest the most money into the lottery, thereby making the rich richer and the poor poorer.
The proximity system will simply mean that fewer people are gaining money, and everyone must live within their means. Fewer metal horses for upkeep, and seeing a massive plate piece of shit (like myself) running around like a giant dickhole will be a spectacle, instead of “thus is the life in the ‘band.”
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The Tick system: It’s original purpose and what it ended up becoming:
The tick system brought to us a sense of a larger scale “battle,” with auxiliary units having the freedom to move around the map in an almost belligerent manner. The purpose of the tick system was to allow flankers to “take the road less traveled” to get to the other side of the enemy and deliver a rear attack that would, theoretically, cripple the enemy’s forward push thus giving your team the advantage.
How many people, let alone teams, do you see making specific combat maneuvers towards the rear of the enemy team? Horses try to do that unsuccessfully, because they simply charge ahead of their team, maybe couch one or two enemies, then die. Ninjas spend their time in some obscure corner waiting for “the right time to strike” but unable to do so because the battle takes the face of multiple skirmishes which are over before the ninjas can reach them, instead of one large, definable engagement that can be taken advantage of. Archers run to the top of a hill to fire ineffectively (for the most part) into… into what? Those 4 guys on the other team that are milling about aimlessly in the field, getting blasted by the remaining cavalry who have carved out their own little “cav only server” in the outskirts of the map?
The battles skirmishes that occur in the server are not enough to satisfy that large scale bloodlust that our player base used to gorge on. These multiple, tiny little glorified duels no longer bring the excitement of battle for me.
The tick system works fantastic for Strategus (STRATEGY, it’s even in the name) but does not hold up to the more casual approach that the public servers require. And, as our reduced traffic shows, it clearly does not work for stimulate new players enough to stay longer to see the great beyond that many of us oldies can.
Flag system as a “beacon” to bring the battle into a single location:
Simply put: It doesn’t work. The implementation of this flag thing is retarded, and is really a letdown for those who are still whaling on each other when the flag reaches the top. Multiple times I’m having a great time fighting, then boom, hands are raised, people cheering (not me, certainly not the other guy, just our avatars) out of nowhere. Not a day goes by now that someone isn’t deflated due to a flag being raised for ‘victory’ in the middle of a fight.
For the most part, people beeline for the flag because it’s an ‘easy win.’ And those who are not interested in the flag and actually want to play a medieval combat game can suck it. It was meant to pull runners in, and get horse archers off their horses to engage, but for anyone who hasn’t had both their eyes scooped out with a rusty spoon, it is obvious that the flags don’t work to do that at all; most people are content with either (a) letting the flags go up and taking the defeat since they’re going to lose ANYWAY or (b) walk right up to the flag and get the beatdown, saving us from having to chase them down, which remains a stupid fucking letdown for me anyway, since blood spilled in combat should be earned and not given.
Conclusions (for now):
When I joined this game, I had to work for what I bought and used. Now, the ticks are a “given” event. This discourages actually trying, and when shit is given to us, we are not inclined to try. Implementing the old proximity xp/gold gain system will breathe life into the new blood in this mod, thus building our ranks back to our former days of face bashing and teamwork.
This game should be fun right at the start, like it used to, not what we see in chat all the time now for new players “It will get better after level 15.” Are you fucking kidding me? You’re telling me that it’s going to take on average almost 2 hours and at MOST 5 fucking hours of IN-GAME play before this game is going to get fun?
Stats can be pulled that etc etc # of players are active unique logins whatever the fuck you want to say about the population of this mod, but the truth of the matter is that it’s declining. I see fewer people active, and prime time on NA1 is 60 people, my Steam has the majority of people I met here playing other games most of the time. It’s not the age of the mod, because this is not your run of the mill CoD nerd shooter.
Perhaps at one point, before the implementation of many “modern” features we have (upkeep, more armor types, marketplace etc) we did need the tick system. But at this juncture, I believe that the proximity system was before its time, and its time should be now.
Updates:
A Hybrid of both Proximity and Tick systems as a suitable, lower effort model for xp/gold gain (the programming is already there, why not just take the best of both worlds?)
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/an-advocation-for-reinstatement-of-crpgs-proximity-xp-gold-gain-system/msg944729/#msg944729
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edit 2014/2/3 3.36pm est: grammar, formatting and spelling
edit 2014/1/29 12.48pm est: Added "updates" section to highlight posts of interest (a coalescing of multiple opinions and personal input)
Do it as a test, or implement it every few maps. One in 5 for example. If people like it, add more of it.
We can have BOTH!
Spawn a message: Proximity mode XP is now ON!
In any case it may give more variable gameplay, and that would be good.
It's true the effect it often had was to emulate situations we never see nowadays. Like guarding a gate or a narrow passage. Seeing massive mayhem. It was in essence an artificial tool, but the situations it created definitely simulated situations most of us consider medieval:
Tight, packed battles defending or attacking some vantage point.
That's why we should test it. Bring it on!
But tbh I don't think it matters that much. I don't think many players care about gold/xp nowadays (I never did), but I might of course be wrong.