cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 05:30:10 pm

Title: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 05:30:10 pm
I didnt noticed any topic about it here, so heres it is:

Why change the whole flag system on battle?

Why make flag spawn in the first round?

Why make flag spawn around 2 minutes after the round has started?

Are you trying to turn battle mode into siege?

Please reverse the change you made, its killing the mod even more.

Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on January 15, 2014, 06:12:22 pm
Its bugged to much and not worth the implementation...

Flags spawning at first round instantly on all maps.
Flags spawning when 5 or less players in one team...removes late effect of 2h-kuyak-heroes. (yes i QQ with the Kuyak Heroes^^)

Flag system was quite okay as it was, so i would suggest to turn it back to: Flags spawning when only 2 Minutes left and one team got under 5 players left, or Flags spawning when last min began.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 06:18:33 pm
Flags just forces people to charge mindlessy into the mess, as they dont have to time to make a decent strategy (much like siege)

The other day we were teamplaying with Byz and there was 2 of us alive vs 10 of them, we managed to kill 5 or so and were about to finish of the last enemies when the round ended with the other team having captured the flag... we felt somewhat cheated there.

Previous system was just fine, flags spawned when 1 min (i think) was left or if only cavalry players were alive in 1 team or another.
I really dont understand why they changed it.

EDIT: why minusing me tzar? :(
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 07:35:12 pm
I don't like flags spawning automatically in the first round, but I do approve of it spawning after one team is down to <5 players. It gets to that point in about 2 minutes and I don't see a reason that we should give those 5 players another 5 minutes to resolve the round team deathmatch style while another 40+ players watch them do it.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Torben on January 15, 2014, 07:37:37 pm
I like it.  speeds things up.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 07:39:07 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 07:35:12 pm
I don't like flags spawning automatically in the first round, but I do approve of it spawning after one team is down to <5 players. It gets to that point in about 2 minutes and I don't see a reason that we should give those 5 players another 5 minutes to resolve the round team deathmatch style while another 40+ players watch them do it.
if it means it can keep the multi for half of the people waiting, why not?

If people do not like watching people fight longer, they shouldnt have charged in mindlessly in the first place. As i said, they have siege for that.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 07:50:29 pm
Quote from: Zlotz on January 15, 2014, 07:44:27 pm
You don't like Battle anymore?
Good.
Keep it that way, devs.
Let's kill Battle so there's more people on Siege.
Battle sucks.
hurr hurr lets alianate half of crpgs population and bury the mod with the rest of them hurr hurr derp
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 07:54:48 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 07:39:07 pm
if it means it can keep the multi for half of the people waiting, why not?

If people do not like watching people fight longer, they shouldnt have charged in mindlessly in the first place. As i said, they have siege for that.

We don't login to watch a multi tick every minute from spectator.

Or maybe we just need to enforce more bans on people who hide until they are the last few on the team  :idea:
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 07:56:40 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 07:54:48 pm
We don't login to watch a multi tick every minute from spectator.

Or maybe we just need to enforce more bans on people who hide until they are the last few on the team  :idea:
tbh i dont mind waiting 2-3 minutes for the round to end (after i die), its not like the rounds were 15 minutes long and you had time to make a sandwitch after you died.
And theres already kick/ban polls for people who go afk or hide.
Again, people who want constant fighting, mindless fights and dont want to wait till respawn can join siege

Quote from: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 07:35:12 pm
I don't like flags spawning automatically in the first round, but I do approve of it spawning after one team is down to <5 players. It gets to that point in about 2 minutes and I don't see a reason that we should give those 5 players another 5 minutes to resolve the round team deathmatch style while another 40+ players watch them do it.
Why not just add a team deathmatch mod alltogether like in native? Instead of modifying battle mod at the expense of a big part of the player base?

Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Tydeus on January 15, 2014, 08:12:03 pm
Next patch we're going to be changing motf a bit so they don't spawn instantly on the first round. Instead, they'll spawn 30 seconds into the round and the distance required to affect flags will also be much greater(so you don't have to fight directly on top of flags). It should draw the rounds out more. We're not sure if we're going to make this a permanent thing, so we're continuing to test things as we go.

Interestingly, about the only people I have heard complaints with this from, are ranged, so at least the target group is among those that are negatively affected by this.

Quote from: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 07:39:07 pm
If people do not like watching people fight longer, they shouldnt have charged in mindlessly in the first place.
Someone always has to be among the first, it doesn't mean they've mindlessly charged in though. Assuming you actually believe that statement, I think you need to focus on playing a melee only character for a week or two as your perspective is clearly skewed.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: San on January 15, 2014, 08:22:51 pm
Only thing that annoys me when me and my brave few teammates nearby die at the flag while there are 10-15 teammates left, could've used some help there! That makes me dislike first round flags.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 08:25:52 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 15, 2014, 08:12:03 pm
Next patch we're going to be changing motf a bit so they don't spawn instantly on the first round. Instead, they'll spawn 30 seconds into the round and the distance required to affect flags will also be much greater(so you don't have to fight directly on top of flags). It should draw the rounds out more. We're not sure if we're going to make this a permanent thing, so we're continuing to test things as we go.

Interestingly, about the only people I have heard complaints with this from, are ranged, so at least the target group is among those that are negatively affected by this.
Someone always has to be among the first, it doesn't mean they've mindlessly charged in though. Assuming you actually believe that statement, I think you need to focus on playing a melee only character for a week or two as your perspective is clearly skewed.
Well i have been a melee player for about a year and a half actually(if not more).
You probably didnt understand what i said or i didn't explain myself thoroughly. Anyway ill explain what i mean by: "If people do not like watching people fight longer, they shouldnt have charged in mindlessly in the first place."

I am talking about people who die in first 90 seconds, they generally die from charging in the enemy head on, spawning late and getting spawn killed, or beeing shot by range. Most of those cases are caused by a lack of awareness. Having to wait 5 minutes is the price to pay for that. It forces people to play more intellegently and not like brainless twats.
What suprises me the most, is that the flag system hasnt been a problem for about 3 years, and just recently it was changed without any big push from the community, unlike for example, the rondel nerf and other major buff/nerf/fixes in this mod.

Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 08:32:15 pm
Quote from: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 08:25:52 pm
What suprises me the most, is that the flag system hasnt been a problem for about 3 years, and just recently it was changed without any big push from the community, unlike for example, the rondel nerf and other major buff/nerf/fixes in this mod.

There has been a push since the inception of the mod to deal with HA/HX at end of rounds, and always a push to reduce the effectiveness of ranged. MOTF handles both complaints handily.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 08:36:19 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 08:32:15 pm
There has been a push since the inception of the mod to deal with HA/HX at end of rounds, and always a push to reduce the effectiveness of ranged. MOTF handles both complaints handily.
This issue was resolved months ago when MOTF was made to spawn when only cavalry were alive. If people still have problems with range at the end of round, why not make flag spawn when only ranged players are left in a team (like they did for cav).

Quote from: HESKEYTIME on January 15, 2014, 08:33:52 pm
1st round flags are a bug that they'll fix.

The flags when one team drops to few players make a ton of sense and stop delaying, running away, hiding and generally playing like a pussy from the last couple of players.

Quote from: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 07:56:40 pm
And theres already kick/ban polls for people who go afk or hide.
Isnt there kick/ban poll in NA battle server?
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 08:43:27 pm
double post, sry
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Ronin on January 15, 2014, 08:47:20 pm
The first round thingy is a bit weird, but the system is really, really great!

In fact, I'm beginning to like this first round insta flag thingy. Maybe I shouldn't but it spices things up a bit more :P
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Johammeth on January 15, 2014, 09:14:36 pm
I like the flags a lot.

With a couple of tweaks and fixes, it will be fantastic.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 09:25:10 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on January 15, 2014, 08:32:15 pm
There has been a push since the inception of the mod to deal with HA/HX at end of rounds, and always a push to reduce the effectiveness of ranged. MOTF handles both complaints handily.

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MOTF lets infantry do what it does best, fight and hold territory.  It should help decrease the amount of whining about ranged.  Ranged can sit and pew pew from a distance all they want, but they won't be able to stop the flags from going up unless they get in there to stop it.

Instead of infantry doing what they have in the past (one of two options when it's mainly ranged left camping a good position on the enemy team):
*camp behind a building
*charge up a hill/easily defensible position and get shot to shit by archers
Now they can force the ranged classes to come to them, instead of the other way around.

Revamping/improving MotF is one of the best things the devs can do at this point.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 10:15:35 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 09:25:10 pm
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MOTF lets infantry do what it does best, fight and hold territory.  It should help decrease the amount of whining about ranged.  Ranged can sit and pew pew from a distance all they want, but they won't be able to stop the flags from going up unless they get in there to stop it.

Instead of infantry doing what they have in the past (one of two options when it's mainly ranged left camping a good position on the enemy team):
*camp behind a building
*charge up a hill/easily defensible position and get shot to shit by archers
Now they can force the ranged classes to come to them, instead of the other way around.

Revamping/improving MotF is one of the best things the devs can do at this point.
I completly agree with you, but as i melee player when you find yourself as the last 5 men alive vs for example 10-15 people you have praticly no chance of winning, because  you are forced to rush to the flag, and flags spawn at the same position every round on a map (most of the time in the open), range still kite you while the enemy infantry holds the flag. I just find the current flag system unfair to the remaining infantry that had previously a chance of winning, now they are just force to charge brainlessly in an antempt to capture some flag spawning and die while getting shot by the archers around.
Before there was a way to lure some enemy infantry out and kill your enemies one by one even if you were vastly outnumbered.

The original idea is great, but they need to seriously tweak it.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Akynos on January 15, 2014, 10:25:24 pm
The changes to flag spawn sprouted from a good idea, but I think it has been badly implemented.

I do not endorse the fact that flags spawn at the first round. Nor do I like them to spawn when there are just 5 players left in a team, as it favorises certain classes and therefore ruins teamplay and individual skill.

I see flags as a way to get rid of delayers and guerilla warriors, but right now it simply gives one team an unfair edge over the other.

Firstly I would get rid of the first round flag spawn system. Then I would endorse a system where the flags spawn when one team has more than 4x (the number is variable ofc) the number of players than the enemy. This would prevent the 'guerilla' tactics and so quicken the end of rounds where defeat for the losing team is certain. It would nonetheless prevent a team to have an edge over the other should the number of players drop below the current threshold.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 10:27:42 pm
Quote from: Akynos on January 15, 2014, 10:25:24 pm
The changes to flag spawn sprouted from a good idea, but I think it has been badly implemented.

I do not endorse the fact that flags spawn at the first round. Nor do I like them to spawn when there are just 5 players left in a team, as it favorises certain classes and therefore ruins teamplay and individual skill.

I see flags as a way to get rid of delayers and guerilla warriors, but right now it simply gives one team an unfair edge over the other.

Firstly I would get rid of the first round flag spawn system. Then I would endorse a system where the flags spawn when one team has more than 4x (the number is variable ofc) the number of players than the enemy. This would prevent the 'guerilla' tactics and so quicken the end of rounds where defeat for the losing team is certain. It would nonetheless prevent a team to have an edge over the other should the number of players drop below the current threshold.
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Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: mrrdhardy on January 15, 2014, 10:33:16 pm
this flag thing is horrible it just makes battle into some sort of objective based game like siege I suggest keeping first round flag system in but take out this new less than 5 players flag spawn, It is killing low populated servers
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 10:54:30 pm
Quote from: Akynos on January 15, 2014, 10:25:24 pm
The changes to flag spawn sprouted from a good idea, but I think it has been badly implemented.

I do not endorse the fact that flags spawn at the first round. Nor do I like them to spawn when there are just 5 players left in a team, as it favorises certain classes and therefore ruins teamplay and individual skill.

I see flags as a way to get rid of delayers and guerilla warriors, but right now it simply gives one team an unfair edge over the other.

Firstly I would get rid of the first round flag spawn system. Then I would endorse a system where the flags spawn when one team has more than 4x (the number is variable ofc) the number of players than the enemy. This would prevent the 'guerilla' tactics and so quicken the end of rounds where defeat for the losing team is certain. It would nonetheless prevent a team to have an edge over the other should the number of players drop below the current threshold.

That doesn't do anything to address the concerns with ranged being so dominant on the battlefield (especially the numbers of ranged).  MOTF allows infantry to shine and once again be the "main force" on the battlefield (as it should be). 

I get your point, and I get Jackie's point about no longer being able to methodically take out the enemy team if they are all camping the flag (it forces you to go balls to the wall and head on charge them).  You both have valid concerns, but I don't see any way to address your concerns, along with doing what MOTF change does (making infantry the dominant force on the battlefield).  I think revamping MOTF is going to be overall better for the mod than leaving it the way it is currently. 
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 15, 2014, 11:20:05 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 10:54:30 pm
That doesn't do anything to address the concerns with ranged being so dominant on the battlefield (especially the numbers of ranged).  MOTF allows infantry to shine and once again be the "main force" on the battlefield (as it should be). 
Just a few minutes on eu1: Our team was winning, but the flag spawned at the center of the village (in the open), all our infantry amasted at the flag, we were totally butchered: all the enemy archers and horse archers were circling around us and shooting us while their cav lanced us.. so yeah, i dont think the current MOTF or any resembling form will resolve the issue (at least on eu1)
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Adamar on January 15, 2014, 11:27:51 pm
Quote from: mrrdhardy on January 15, 2014, 10:33:16 pm
this flag thing is horrible it just makes battle into some sort of objective based game like siege I suggest keeping first round flag system in but take out this new less than 5 players flag spawn, It is killing low populated servers

Point me at these low populated servers plz.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Akynos on January 15, 2014, 11:29:24 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on January 15, 2014, 10:54:30 pm
That doesn't do anything to address the concerns with ranged being so dominant on the battlefield (especially the numbers of ranged).  MOTF allows infantry to shine and once again be the "main force" on the battlefield (as it should be). 

I get your point, and I get Jackie's point about no longer being able to methodically take out the enemy team if they are all camping the flag (it forces you to go balls to the wall and head on charge them).  You both have valid concerns, but I don't see any way to address your concerns, along with doing what MOTF change does (making infantry the dominant force on the battlefield).  I think revamping MOTF is going to be overall better for the mod than leaving it the way it is currently.

As Jackie kinda said, I do not see this MOTF as a pro-infantry patch : Sure, it prevents ranged from eternal kiting or long range sniping, however it is compensated by the fact that:
1- If ranged team is first on flag, melee are forced to charge them
2- The shieldless melee will have no cover
3- All melee will be concentrated in one single spot, allowing for fish-in-barrel shots

Therefore I do not really see how this patch is advantageous to melee, it simply gets rid of the last traces of kiting in my opinion.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: owens on January 16, 2014, 06:38:45 am
The maps have to be modified so that the flags are somewhat defended from archers but open to infantry attacks.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: rustyspoon on January 16, 2014, 01:16:38 pm
Quote from: owens on January 16, 2014, 06:38:45 am
The maps have to be modified so that the flags are somewhat defended from archers but open to infantry attacks.

This is a good point. If the flags are supposed to represent an army holding a position, why would they be trying to hold an open field?
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Paul on January 16, 2014, 01:46:07 pm
There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 16, 2014, 02:17:05 pm
Quote from: Paul on January 16, 2014, 01:46:07 pm
There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.
Sounds amazing! Maybe something like a few carriages (flipped on it's side with the goods thrown on the ground as if people tried to quickly build a mini fortification as last hope?).

And I know you can do it so Ill just ask: a defenceless virgin to defend please! :)
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Tydeus on January 16, 2014, 02:19:09 pm
Quote from: Paul on January 16, 2014, 01:46:07 pm
There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.
Yeah, that's above me at the moment. Please come back to us soon(TM).
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 16, 2014, 02:29:33 pm
Please paul tell me ur pro and you can fix this for your beloved people :3
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Angantyr on January 16, 2014, 02:56:25 pm
Random MOTF is a good new feature I think, spices up the old routines, will be great with a bit of further tinkering.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Leshma on January 16, 2014, 03:05:29 pm
Quote from: Paul on January 16, 2014, 01:46:07 pm
There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.

Why don't you build a castle around the flag?
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Tydeus on January 16, 2014, 03:22:52 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 16, 2014, 03:05:29 pm
Why don't you build a castle around the flag?
If the devs that were capable of making a new game mode to replace battle were both interested enough as well as willing/able to devote the time necessary to the project, it would probably be done. That's just not what we have at the moment, so we're(I) am stuck making minor alterations to MotF because the only other way to make ranged have less of an effect on the round, is to nerf them significantly.

Rather than dictating exactly how players are able to play by weapon requirements or stat altercations, it's better(less intrusive) to just reduce the impact they have on the outcome of a round. Essentially it's the same end result, except it doesn't remove player choice, only limits the rewards for a few specific choices.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Leshma on January 16, 2014, 03:30:58 pm
Or... you could remove shield skill, give everyone free respec and make all shields free to use, only balancing their cost based on weight and coverage. That would totally piss off archers.

Yeah, sounds stupid and is pure madness, but no more than what you're doing with battle mode.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Ronin on January 16, 2014, 04:04:46 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 16, 2014, 03:30:58 pm
Yeah, sounds stupid and is pure madness, but no more than what you're doing with battle mode.
2-3 shield skill is really really enough to use a decent shield now, thanks to the shield resistance buff. I had 3 shield skill on my character before this buff, I really liked it :mrgreen:

Conjuring some objects around flag, sounds a bit stupid imo.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: JackieChan on January 16, 2014, 04:11:33 pm
As i said, its just turning battle mod into some sort of siege. Wrong way of fixing the range problem. At least Leshmas idea makes more sense.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Leshma on January 16, 2014, 04:34:23 pm
Quote from: Ronin on January 16, 2014, 04:04:46 pm
2-3 shield skill is really really enough to use a decent shield now, thanks to the shield resistance buff. I had 3 shield skill on my character before this buff, I really liked it :mrgreen:

No, I won't put any point into shield. Do you know why? If anyone can grab a damn crossbow and use it (with bad accuracy but that's not the point) then everyone should be able to grab a shield and use it to protect himself. Shield skill has to be the dumbest stat in this mod and it's major source of abuse which can be seen on examples such as kinngrimm or those 13 shield skill silly builds.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: phnxhdsn on January 16, 2014, 06:07:04 pm
I just hope first round insta-flags gets work-shopped and changed, because in the first round the teams are always just random right? so sometimes it has spawned all the ranged to one side and all the melee shielders to the other side, guess which side went to the flags and got an instant victory..
I like the flags too because it forces players to change their strategy and not just do the same thing every round but it needs to improved in some ways, for instance i believe bigger flag radius will greatly improve this!

Edit: Also I never get any time to get valour in the first round because of it always being so one sided nowadays because the team to win the melee for flags is decided instantly and then I lose my x5 :(  Point I'm making is first round is always 50/50 on whether your getting a multiplier
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on January 16, 2014, 06:09:53 pm
Quote from: Paul on January 16, 2014, 01:46:07 pm
There could also be a routine that spawns cover along with the flag when no other props are around.

Need some horse-drawn carriages to spawn for cover, simply so I can holler "CIRCLE THE WAGONS, THE INJUNS ARE ATTACKING" over teamspeak.

Anyway, I'm a fan of the MoTF change. Whether or not it is an objectively good or well implemented feature, I like how its been working.
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Tydeus on January 16, 2014, 06:10:36 pm
You say mod, but shield skill is hardcoded. So really, it's just the game itself. If we could easily change shield skill, it would have been done a long time ago.

I already doubled the radius and changed the first round MotF to spawn 30 seconds into the round(for the next patch). Any other suggestions?
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Johammeth on January 16, 2014, 08:04:33 pm
Quote from: Tydeus on January 16, 2014, 06:10:36 pm
Any other suggestions?

Two things:

1.

As others have said, variety is what will keep the gamemode fresh... mostly by preventing the feeling of "hurr hurr, it's this map just go camp the ____."

The most obvious route is semi-random flag spawns: Each map has a dozen or so locations and each round the flag randomly selects one location to spawn in.

This approach would be better implemented over time. Adding in 1 new location per map every now and again will keep the "new car smell" around a lot longer than an initial dump of 12 flag spots that will all get stale eventually.

--

Alternatively, full random flag spawns could be pretty cool... but also potentially broken and infuriating.

(click to show/hide)


2. Killing an opponent on the flag lowers their flag a little bit.

While your physical presence on the flags will halt the enemy capture, killing an enemy in this zone will also knock back their progress a little bit (something small, say 5-10% ... numbers will need to be tweaked)

This would only really be felt in the "I'm stopping the cap, get your asses over here guys!" type situation where one hero is outnumbered on flags and waiting for backup. Sure, he can just turtle... but if he snags a couple of kills, he can earn a few extra seconds for his teammates to show up after he dies.

There's now a bigger choice between passively halting the enemy capture, and aggressively setting them back.

I don't think we have to worry about this affecting "big" fights on the flags (1st round instaflags are going the way of the dodo anyway, yes?).

-Rewards aggression
-Makes kills on the flag feel better ("Well, I bought you guys an extra 3 seconds. Good luck!")
-BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Akynos on January 16, 2014, 11:56:49 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 16, 2014, 04:34:23 pm
No, I won't put any point into shield. Do you know why? If anyone can grab a damn crossbow and use it (with bad accuracy but that's not the point) then everyone should be able to grab a shield and use it to protect himself. Shield skill has to be the dumbest stat in this mod and it's major source of abuse which can be seen on examples such as kinngrimm or those 13 shield skill silly builds.

I'll see your Shield skill and raise you a ''You're too damn incompetent to throw that axe''
Title: Re: Flags in battle?
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on January 17, 2014, 10:19:03 am
Quote from: Johammeth on January 16, 2014, 08:04:33 pm
Two things:

1.

As others have said, variety is what will keep the gamemode fresh... mostly by preventing the feeling of "hurr hurr, it's this map just go camp the ____."

The most obvious route is semi-random flag spawns: Each map has a dozen or so locations and each round the flag randomly selects one location to spawn in.

This approach would be better implemented over time. Adding in 1 new location per map every now and again will keep the "new car smell" around a lot longer than an initial dump of 12 flag spots that will all get stale eventually.

--

Alternatively, full random flag spawns could be pretty cool... but also potentially broken and infuriating.

(click to show/hide)


2. Killing an opponent on the flag lowers their flag a little bit.

While your physical presence on the flags will halt the enemy capture, killing an enemy in this zone will also knock back their progress a little bit (something small, say 5-10% ... numbers will need to be tweaked)

This would only really be felt in the "I'm stopping the cap, get your asses over here guys!" type situation where one hero is outnumbered on flags and waiting for backup. Sure, he can just turtle... but if he snags a couple of kills, he can earn a few extra seconds for his teammates to show up after he dies.

There's now a bigger choice between passively halting the enemy capture, and aggressively setting them back.

I don't think we have to worry about this affecting "big" fights on the flags (1st round instaflags are going the way of the dodo anyway, yes?).

-Rewards aggression
-Makes kills on the flag feel better ("Well, I bought you guys an extra 3 seconds. Good luck!")
-BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS BIG PLAYS

I'm too much of a jackass at the moment to expand or detract from anything here. Just wanted to say that Johammeth has some great ideas that should be considered.
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My only real suggestion/addition is to consider the first round to be flag-less until more balanced flags can be worked out. It really sucks for people to think "well goddamn, I'm gonna lose my multi just because I got on the opposite end of the map from where the flag spawns."

I suggest that MoTF only come up after 5 people alive, even on the first round. If MOTF can be programmed in such a way that good balance between spawn-points is achieved (not some bullshit where one team has to scramble 3x the distance of another just to make it to flags, where they will fight an entrenched and prepared bad guy), at that point MOTF on the first round should return. Hopefully I've made myself clear enough.