cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 02:02:23 pm

Title: Score system
Post by: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 02:02:23 pm
So, the previous system was based on raw damage, while the new system uses the actual damage dealt.

New system seems to treat ranged and melee more equally and bla bla bla = many good things.

However, just now on EU_1 I landed a full combo of hit(knockdown) + hit + kick + hit on Latviano aka. Potato whose  overall body armor is 77 (+3 heavy plate armor and heavy gauntlets). Later on I noticed that I only got 3 points from that. So beating the shit out of him wasn't worth my time (especially since I got shot there, but that's another story), instead I should be brutally murdering lightly armored enemies to get easier points.
= IMO the new score system favors peasant hunters, while punishes those hunting the real "high priority" targets wearing heavy armors. Maybe there is more room for improvement.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Latvian on January 14, 2014, 02:05:13 pm
i think you just teamhit someone, some while ago you could get valour from beating me alone + horse.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 02:07:54 pm
Quote from: Latvian on January 14, 2014, 02:05:13 pm
i think you just teamhit someone, some while ago you could get valour from beating me alone + horse.

Nah, that was on the very first round I played today, spawned late, ran to you. Got one hit that triggered the knockdown. Got shot. I probably got really bad luck with the damage on all of those hits. But still, if the score is based completely on hp-removing, killing peasants and lightly armored horses will rise way above all other priorities.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: BlueKnight on January 14, 2014, 02:24:23 pm
Quote from: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 02:02:23 pm
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Title: Re: Score system
Post by: darmaster on January 14, 2014, 02:36:36 pm
:C change exp system
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on January 14, 2014, 02:44:22 pm
I like hunting peasants :) As a defender, when i shoot one peasant dead, i often run back to the wall and look after the same peasant running out of spawn, so i can take few more shots :D

If you don't feel like smashing your keyboard againts the wall - you are not playing cRPG! Just giving a helping hand to the new players, so they can get in a proper battle mood.

Show me you warface! YOU LITTLE SHITCUNT PEASANT! AAA-AAA-AAARGGGGGHHHHH!!!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Teeth on January 14, 2014, 02:50:06 pm
Serves you right for getting 3 hits for the price of 1.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Harpag on January 14, 2014, 02:51:27 pm
I feel that I still see the same people on top of scoreboard, so effectively it is rather a cosmetic change. Middle of clusterfuck (XP barn hehe) always gave the most points, so maybe this new  master of the field system has a greater impact than method of scoring. BTW I really like it - it's a form of pressure on K/D ratio whores to play more for the team.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Kafein on January 14, 2014, 05:32:16 pm
qq can't farm 20 points out of Butan anymore.

This new system fails to detect how much more difficult getting net damage on armored targets is. I don't really know what was the rationale for changing that, except nerf cut weapons :/
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Prinz_Karl on January 14, 2014, 05:46:05 pm
Really derailing this but does anyone else see the 4-hit combo mentioned above as a bit excessive? It means that just because of the special abilitry knockdown you're getting 3 free hits which is in no correlation with other weapons really.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 05:57:11 pm
Yeah, the wombo-combo with knockdown and kick is kinda lame, but on battle I'm gonna keep using it until they change it  :lol: Altho I don't really use knockdown weapons.

I was thinking that maybe add a small % multiplier on score gained from wounding high-tier equipped enemies, horses not taken into account, but looms maybe. This way you'd get 1 or 2 points more from killing a fully loomed kuyak hero than what you'd get from killing an unloomed one. This way beating down a fully loomed tincan would give much more points than killing a peasant wearing ragged tunic.

So basically, the more your equipment is worth, the more your hitpoints are worth. And the overall score from a 50hp peasant to 50hp loomed tincan would increase by max 50% or so. This might go horribly wrong tho  :lol:
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Kafein on January 14, 2014, 05:58:00 pm
Quote from: Prinz_Karl on January 14, 2014, 05:46:05 pm
Really derailing this but does anyone else see the 4-hit combo mentioned above as a bit excessive? It means that just because of the special abilitry knockdown you're getting 3 free hits which is in no correlation with other weapons really.

I think surviving 4 hits is excessive, most players should die with fewer hits. Besides, you can roll away now. You utterly failed at blocking a knockdown weapon and get knocked down, but you still get another chance at not being dead. That's extremely generous.


By the way my personal record is 3 chained kick combos (I believe on Butan). So basically hit knockdown hit kick hit knockdown hit kick hit knockdown hit kick hit. Now imagine the same thing but without knockdown. That'd be 7 good hits, which can easily be equivalent to 30 blocked ones if we talk about good (or boring) players such as Butan (or Skono, respectively).
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 05:58:44 pm
Oh yeah, kafein has a point. Rolling completely counters the kick-combos
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Nehvar on January 14, 2014, 06:18:54 pm
So the system now favors hunting down lightly armored targets like archer scum?  We need to get this information to the masses NOW!
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on January 14, 2014, 09:20:28 pm
Quote from: Lennu on January 14, 2014, 05:57:11 pm
Yeah, the wombo-combo with knockdown and kick is kinda lame, but on battle I'm gonna keep using it until they change it  :lol:
They already did something about this combo, he could have rolled over, especially after the second knock-down.  :lol:

Quote from: Kafein on January 14, 2014, 05:32:16 pm
This new system fails to detect how much more difficult getting net damage on armored targets is. I don't really know what was the rationale for changing that, except nerf cut weapons :/
I was just thinking that it's funny that they change the system to nerf cut damage now that everybody has already quit cutting weapon for piercing weapon (especially 1h). And the ranged, that already never used cutting bolts/arrows, will even use them less.

Anyway, going back to the subject, I think your right lennu.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: San on January 14, 2014, 09:32:12 pm
I think getting a hit on good players no matter the equipment should get you more points. I was a little disappointed when a few of my low damage hits garnered no points, though.


From an undisclosed location:
Quote from: San on January 13, 2014, 05:16:05 pm
Bumping this, but is there a way to take into account the current performance of the target and reward more/less points accordingly? Optimally, it would be whatever the game uses as a balance mechanism (KD, level, etc.). Or if that's not possible, the current score of your opponent? I find searching out "easier" targets too rewarding when trying to get valour instead of taking the more challenging path against tougher opponents.

At least some ideas are out there to make it even better. Killing heroes of any class should be worth the reward.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Tzar on January 14, 2014, 09:34:57 pm
I dunno why they changed it in the first place  :lol:

Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Sniger on May 09, 2014, 02:04:48 pm
its really hard for a 1hander/shielder to get valour since he is effectively compeating against everyone (incl. his own team mates) where majority is high damage dealers like polearms, 2h, cav and some range.

i dont get points for banging several enemies shields to pieces... the 2mins i spend fighting 1 or 2 shielders will yield max 3-5 points because very high chance that my opponents will be killed by my team.

if i was in charge, we wouldnt have any score board to glance at :) and if we had one, it would be based on the following:

1 kill = 2 points
1 assist = 1 point
Flag-capture = 2 points
TH = -10
TK = -100
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Tydeus on May 09, 2014, 07:08:23 pm
So basically what I have gotten so far from this thread, is a whole bunch of requests and ideas for things that are already in place. So it's good to know the system is pretty damn close to where it should be, as stated in the first half of the OP.

Just a few things for you guys to keep in mind:

The scoreboard score isn't a player's real score, it's not even the score used for valour. Scoreboard score takes the real score value and divides that number by 15. So when you say "I only got 3 points" well, you're actually talking about a much larger and wider range of points, and due to rounding, you could have been a single damage point away from "4" points.

Until I can get score per round saved on the website, score offset won't be perfect for addressing this situation(although it's still not bad, since I believe for most people, performance fluctuates on a daily/weekly basis). If it's round 2 or 3, and the guy you're fighting had an unlucky first few rounds, then his Score_Offset is going to be lower than it should, which will cause you to get fewer points than what is really deserved.

A player's score_offset is found by his round score gained to the server's average score gained per player ratio, with a lower and upper bound cap of 3:4 and 3:2 respectably.

Assists are already implemented, and we still have proximity xp as well(although it's been reduced to 1/3 score). So if there are still issues with the system, I think it's simply a matter of adjusting values further, not really adding features.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: wayyyyyne on May 09, 2014, 07:11:40 pm
To be fair the old system we had wasn't flawless but it was pretty darn close. Nowadays it just feels off how some people get valour.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Tydeus on May 09, 2014, 07:21:48 pm
You get valour by dealing a lot of damage, by focusing those who do well, or both. Never before has spawn camping or picking off peasants been worth so little. Killing those that aren't performing well will grant as low as 75% what it would have in the past. I'm considering lowering the value further, but the wider the range in score_offset penalties/bonuses, the larger the resulting score disparity will be.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: woody on May 09, 2014, 07:29:16 pm
Maybe get points according to damage dealt with a bonus for heavier armoured opponents something like - damage done times constant multiplied by body armour rating divided by 50 gives points.

Ie you would get twice as many points for damage done to someone with 75 armour rather than 37.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Riddaren on May 09, 2014, 11:00:26 pm
Well, points received should be based on the level of the enemy, like I first suggested when suggesting this score system :)
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Tydeus on May 10, 2014, 12:15:31 am
Quote from: Riddaren on May 09, 2014, 11:00:26 pm
Well, points received should be based on the level of the enemy, like I first suggested when suggesting this score system :)
Can't say I really agree with that. I don't like the idea of artificially raising/lowering someone's battlefield importance. Why should I receive more points for killing the long time cRPG 2h heavy kuyak player whose averaging 100 damage a round(aside from him having a bitch build  :wink: ), than the guy that has been playing M&B for 6 years and just started cRPG, yet is averaging 200 damage a round as a 1h shielder? There's just no reason to inflate player worth like that. Performance is what matters. If the guy in plate isn't doing well, he shouldn't be worth a lot. Furthermore, higher weight results in increased vulnerability such that the player becomes easier to hit. There's already a small bonus for landing a hit and not killing someone, I don't think there needs to be anything extra just because your opponent has a lot of armor, and you low damage.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying higher armor doesn't provide tangible benefits. What I am saying though, is that any of those tangible benefits, will already be reflected in the player accumulating higher scores, which will automatically cause them to be worth more points to kill.
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: Sniger on May 10, 2014, 04:54:30 pm
racism
Title: Re: Score system
Post by: jtobiasm on May 10, 2014, 06:31:50 pm
Valour is too easy to get nowadays.