cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Phew on October 28, 2013, 02:19:51 pm
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We can all agree that the Respecs that auction for 2mil+ gold are out of reach for most of the player base, and the competition for these auctions among the most established players creates a lot of animosity. So my suggestion is to offer "Mini Respecs" in the store as a commodity:
Cost: ~50,000gold or so
Redeemable for:
Re-assign 1 stat (str or agility) point
-OR-
Re-assign 2 skill points
-OR
Re-assign ~100 weapon proficiency points
This way, people could make minor tweaks to their build for a reasonable amount of gold, but a full class change would still be prohibitively expensive (over 1 mil gold), so people would still have an incentive to retire/respec if they want to change classes.
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Personally I think if any "mini respec" should be included it should be a wpf change... maybe you can't change your entire build, but if you want to switch between 1h, 2h, or polearm, it is really easy. Would help when some 2hander who thinks he is the shit comes along and I am tempted to rage-respec to 2h just to slap his shit.
Also I always felt that you should have a 10hr or so window for undoing your last change to your build... maybe at a slight cost. You would be able to undo the wpf, attribute and skill point distribution for your last level up. I've had to respec at level 25 once because I accidentally added a point into something useless (think I added an extra point to ironflesh... who needs that garbage anyways...).
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Personally I think if any "mini respec" should be included it should be a wpf change...
I'm approaching lvl 34, and I'm getting tired of throwing (because I suck at it and generally hit teammates and ladders more often than enemies). I'd like to drop my 5PT and 105 wpf in throwing in favor of 3 str/1 PS and maybe wpf in xbow. A fairly minor build change, and not worth 2+ mil for the respec auction. Also not worth retiring and spending the next year or more to get back where I was. With this proposed "mini respec", this minor change would cost me on the order of 250k gold. Not chump change, but an attainable amount for most players with a couple months of grinding.
The current system often forces people to either:
-Stick with a build they don't like/point mistake like you mentioned
-Retire and endure being a peasant again
-Respec and lose perhaps hundreds of hours of leveling progress
I don't think people should be able to change their build to suit each map/game mode or anything like that, but allowing them to tweak their build for a reasonable expense every few months only adds enjoyment for everyone. It is a game after all. And I know the devs want gold sinks, and these "mini-respecs" would be a MUCH more effective gold sink overall than the full respec auctions that only extract gold from people that have nearly endless gold anyway.
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I agree. I am not against full paid-for respecs, just always thought that the mini respecs should have been a feature from day one to help anyone who made a mistake.
Also, since crpg has too much money in the economy the devs should just add the option of a paid-for respec (at a fixed, yet high price) instead of or in addition to the normal respec.
For a full respec it should be maybe 500k - 1mil tops... not this once every few weeks 2-3mil BS.
The cheaper it is, the more often it can be utilized, and therefore more people will be spending gold, and therefore more gold will be wasted. Win-win in my opinion.
EDIT: As of now I am planning on going to level 34 as well... not nearly as close as you are, and if I ever reach that milestone it will be a miracle in its own right, but if I somehow reach 34 or 35 I am really tempted to respec and definitely wouldn't want to pay the 2-3mil, although I am saving up for it if necessary. All I plan on doing is dropping the 6 points I would have in IF and giving myself +3 agi and +1 athletics... could definitely be accomplished using a mini-respec like you proposed and I would be willing to pay up to 500k for that. I still don't think I could justify paying 2-3mil for such a minor change... I would just have to live with my str-crutchy build and extra skill point and just wait until level 35 by which point if the mod is not yet dead I should have so much money that 2-3mil would be insignificant... but then again it would be me and everyone else, meaning that the 2-3mil respec would probably be 4-6mil by then, at least. Sigh...
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It's a detail, but before someone chimes in to say that it's not possible because of this, I'll bring it up now:
Make it so you can't lower a stat (str or agility) until you use a mini-respec on the dependent skills (i.e. you can't lower strength from 21 to 18 until you lower Ironflesh and Power Strike from 7 to 6). Same goes for weapon master and wpf; you can't lower the Weapon Master skill until you use a mini-respec to lower your total wpp expenditures below the amount available at the lower Weapon Master level.
To avoid confusion, these could be separate items in the store:
Stat Mini Respec-Refund one stat point in strength or agility. 50k gold
Skill Mini Respec-Refund one skill point. 25k gold
Proficiency Mini Respec-Refund 50 wpp. 25k gold
...etc
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It's a detail, but before someone chimes in to say that it's not possible because of this, I'll bring it up now:
Make it so you can't lower a stat (str or agility) until you use a mini-respec on the dependent skills (i.e. you can't lower strength from 21 to 18 until you lower Ironflesh and Power Strike from 7 to 6). Same goes for weapon master and wpf; you can't lower the Weapon Master skill until you use a mini-respec to lower your total wpp expenditures below the amount available at the lower Weapon Master level.
To avoid confusion, these could be separate items in the store:
Stat Mini Respec-Refund one stat point in strength or agility. 50k gold
Skill Mini Respec-Refund one skill point. 25k gold
Proficiency Mini Respec-Refund 50 wpp. 25k gold
...etc
Good addition... I just assumed that removing 1 str would automatically remove any skill points that are now above the maximum... but that wouldn't make sense with your method of individual respecs.
Personally I think that the devs, if they would ever implement this, would bump up the price... the point here (from their twisted and diabolical point of view, anyways) is to burn extra gold, not provide a service to the players.
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I say we make mini respecs cost 2million and full respecs cost 10 million. Basically you guys are encouraging players go to higher levels, and not suffer from poor planning, which ultimately makes the game less accessible to new players. Live by your idiotic decisions or retire. Don't let your selfishness ruin the community.
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I say we make mini respecs cost 2million and full respecs cost 10 million. Basically you guys are encouraging players go to higher levels, and not suffer from poor planning, which ultimately makes the game less accessible to new players. Live by your idiotic decisions or retire. Don't let your selfishness ruin the community.
You fail to see the problem here, which devs tried to address by adding the respeccing auction... too much gold in the economy. You want to know the #1 reason there is so much gold? Retirement. Not only do you get a ~400k loompoint for free, but you will usually spend more time in peasant gear, with lower upkeep than had you been a high level still wearing your heavy armor. Therefore, far more gold is generated. If people stay at higher levels, they consume more gold by wearing their high-tier armor. This thread is only a suggestion to help those who make minor errors in judgement or simply misclick the mouse when adding skill points. It also happens to help solve the problem of too much gold in the economy.
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I say we make mini respecs cost 2million and full respecs cost 10 million. Basically you guys are encouraging players go to higher levels, and not suffer from poor planning, which ultimately makes the game less accessible to new players. Live by your idiotic decisions or retire. Don't let your selfishness ruin the community.
Warband is an ancient game now; I think the opportunity for gaining significant numbers of new players has waned. Now it should be about keeping the existing player base interested. I know of several formerly-active players that have quit because nerfs or a mis-click broke their build, and they would rather quit than give up their XP or pay 2-3 million gold to fix it.
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Warband is an ancient game now; I think the opportunity for gaining significant numbers of new players has waned. Now it should be about keeping the existing player base interested. I know of several formerly-active players that have quit because nerfs or a mis-click broke their build, and they would rather quit than give up their XP or pay 2-3 million gold to fix it.
I also feel like you should be rewarded a severely discounted if not entirely free respec if your class gets nerfed... just think of all the archers over the years.
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You fail to see the problem here, which devs tried to address by adding the respeccing auction... too much gold in the economy. You want to know the #1 reason there is so much gold? Retirement. Not only do you get a ~400k loompoint for free, but you will usually spend more time in peasant gear, with lower upkeep than had you been a high level still wearing your heavy armor. Therefore, far more gold is generated. If people stay at higher levels, they consume more gold by wearing their high-tier armor. This thread is only a suggestion to help those who make minor errors in judgement or simply misclick the mouse when adding skill points. It also happens to help solve the problem of too much gold in the economy.
Actually, I do understand the issues here. You are saying the biggest problem is that people run around in heavy armor. I'm saying a bigger problem is that people run around at high level in heirloomed armor with min/max builds. Yes, there is too much gold in the economy. But selling mini respecs for paltry sums, will do very little except make high level players even stronger. 200k~ is nothing considering the current economy and it's scale.
But anyway, I shouldn't argue with you, or you will wreck me in strat, 500 men at a time.
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I'm not sure about the feats thing, but I like this idea.
An ok workaround might be to check if reassigning a stat point makes you ineligible for any skills you currently have allocated, then you would have to pay at least 150,000-200k to reassign up to 3 stat points and reassign the skill points/wpf you got back.
Edit: This is better than the armory/marketplace since I would have only had a single +2 compared to a full set of +3 items anyways without them. Murdertron does have a point, though. Although I disagree with high levels getting much better if they get a mini-respec, it makes sense to pay more the higher your level is.
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But selling mini respecs for paltry sums, will do very little except make high level players even stronger. 200k~ is nothing considering the current economy and it's scale.
The main thing the Mini-respecs will accomplish is to keep this mod from dying. The existing player base is mostly high level/gen, and they occasionally get bored with their build and want to tweak it slightly. They are faced with the following options: 1. Respec/Retire and lose hundreds/thousands of hours of XP or 2. Win a respec auction at a cost of hundreds/thousands of hours of gold 3. Keep playing a build they are bored with or 4. quit cRPG and play a different game. I think offering these mini-respecs in the store would keep fewer people from choosing option 4.
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The main thing the Mini-respecs will accomplish is to keep this mod from dying. The existing player base is mostly high level/gen, and they occasionally get bored with their build and want to tweak it slightly. They are faced with the following options: 1. Respec/Retire and lose hundreds/thousands of hours of XP or 2. Win a respec auction at a cost of hundreds/thousands of hours of gold 3. Keep playing a build they are bored with or 4. quit cRPG and play a different game. I think offering these mini-respecs in the store would keep fewer people from choosing option 4.
The steep and already punishing starting process is far worse than the regret and dread of not having a min-maxed high level build in terms of hurting community numbers. Oh I'm level 34 and I have an extra point? I'm so mad I'm going to quit.
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No. You are playing a game for fun. If you respec at lvl 35, you will be lvl 34: still above the majority of players you will face. If you still cannot enjoy the game, you are playing the wrong game.
OR maybe instead of mini respecs we just allow everyone a full free respe whenever they want? I mean fuck it, why not?
Lock thread and go play a grind game, this is a game for hitting people in the face with pointy things.
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OR maybe instead of mini respecs we just allow everyone a full free respe whenever they want? I mean fuck it, why not?
Because it's a RPG, and having some attachment to your build is part of the appeal of RPGs. If everyone just respecced to suit to map/game mode/opponent/whatever, then you basically have native.
I know dozens of formerly-active players that have quit or stopped playing significantly because a nerf broke their build, or they misclicked, etc. If the devs can make a subtle change THAT STILL MAINTAINS RESPECCING AS AN EXPENSIVE OPTION while providing some recourse for people that would like to make slight changes, why not?
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Because it's a RPG, and having some attachment to your build is part of the appeal of RPGs. If everyone just respecced to suit to map/game mode/opponent/whatever, then you basically have native.
I know dozens of formerly-active players that have quit or stopped playing significantly because a nerf broke their build, or they misclicked, etc. If the devs can make a subtle change THAT STILL MAINTAINS RESPECCING AS AN EXPENSIVE OPTION while providing some recourse for people that would like to make slight changes, why not?
Stop implying 300k is expensive.
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Stop implying 300k is expensive.
I have an offer on marketplace: Stones for 300k. You can prove your point with a single mouse click, and I'll eat crow.
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I think the current system with really expensive respec auctions is fail.
You allow the biggest grinders to skip retire-grinding by paying gold, thereby increasing the numbers of very high lvl players. Only redeeming quality is that it takes money out of the semi-broken economy.
I don't think that cheap respecs would make it any better though. Will just decrease the number of retirements even further and possibly take less gold out of the system.
And I don't believe you're as gimped by retiring as everyone think. Getting back to lvl 20 takes very little time and then you can start participating in the killing of folks, albeit somewhat weaker. Being a whimp again is an interesting challenge on its own.
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I have an offer on marketplace: Stones for 300k. You can prove your point with a single mouse click, and I'll eat crow.
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You make 450k in the time it takes to gen, then 3% less per gen bonus. If you're 33, that's a little bit more than 4 gens. Nearly 2 million gold. 300k is not expensive.
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Cost: ~50,000gold or so
Re-assign ~100 weapon proficiency points
Lulz, so for 100 k gold I can respec from 21-18 1h no shield into 2h, then another 100 k and I'm polearmer. Same with respec between shielder/hoplite and lancer/1h cav.
This way, people could make minor tweaks to their build for a reasonable amount of gold, but a full class change would still be prohibitively expensive (over 1 mil gold), so people would still have an incentive to retire/respec if they want to change classes.
Nope, mini respec as you propose it in some cases would allow to change class for 100 k...
I have an offer on marketplace: Stones for 300k. You can prove your point with a single mouse click, and I'll eat crow.
300 k is nothing for a respec.
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You make 450k in the time it takes to gen, then 3% less per gen bonus. If you're 33, that's a little bit more than 4 gens. Nearly 2 million gold. 300k is not expensive.
You really believe this? How much have you made in the last 2 weeks? Making money yourself is painstakingly slow, week after week of grinding. People are just spoiled by the marketplace where all this gold came out of nowhere.
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Lulz, so for 100 k gold I can respec from 21-18 1h no shield into 2h, then another 100 k and I'm polearmer. Same with respec between shielder/hoplite and lancer/1h cav.
Nope, mini respec as you propose it in some cases would allow to change class for 100 k...
A typical lvl 30 build with 5 weapon master has 500 wpp, so switching those from 1h to 2h would cost you 250k under my proposal. Couple that with a switch from 21-18 to 24-15, and maybe you want to switch your IF to Riding. You're up over 500k in a hurry. You'll be lucky to grind 500k in a generation (even selling your loom point).
Make the mini respec cost 100k, 150k, whatever, that's not my point; my point is for there to be some accessible (read-store, not rare auctions) way to make minor changes to your build for a significant fee. And 300k is obviously significant, because Murdertron still hasn't accepted my trade.
Some of you forget this is a damn game; we're not debating whether a serial killer should get parole.
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You really believe this? How much have you made in the last 2 weeks? Making money yourself is painstakingly slow, week after week of grinding. People are just spoiled by the marketplace where all this gold came out of nowhere.
Actually it's 100% true. For every 1000 exp you get, you get 50 gold. Minus 3% per gen, of course. If you have a multi that ratio is exactly the same. Leave the economics to the economics guys, and I'll leave the lower middle class republican vote to you. Of course, San, not all of us are filthy shield critters who wear the heaviest helmet in the game. Also as a side note, besides my cav gens, I've never had repairs over 1800. Also I have 28 +3 looms so my net worth is around 28 million gold.
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Also I have 28 +3 looms so my net worth is around 28 million gold.
Then you aren't in the target demographic for this thread, since you could win a respec auction any time you want. Run along now.
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Can you still answer my simple question?
Exp to 31 is 8.735 million
8,735,000 / 20 = 436,750
8,735,000 / 5000 = 1747 = 29.12 hours (~15 hours if you get the 6:30 and 6:00 tick over and over)
At the absolute best conditions, 15 hours of playtime for 437k, NOT 450k. You also conveniently gloss over the 4 straight months, June-September of me in light armor and a 3k weapon for the sole purpose of making gold and still being viable in combat. Just because you can get easy money from the messed up marketplace doesn't change the fact that it's annoying to grind up yourself.
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A typical lvl 30 build with 5 weapon master has 500 wpp
Oh, I misunderstood you, I thought about wpf, not wpp :P Sowwy! :P
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Then you aren't in the target demographic for this thread, since you could win a respec auction any time you want. Run along now.
Why would you ignore the richest demographic? You need to consider the economy and player base as a whole. Instead you only think of yourself which is typical for those under the conservative propaganda machine.
And yes San, please argue with me over a 13k difference when I am using estimations so I don't bore people with the math. A less than 5% difference was accommodated to make easier numbers for the idiots who actually think mini respecs are a good idea. And yes, you will pay repairs. That is your choice. It's a fact that you will make that much money per gen. I don't care how you spend it. If you want to spend your money on Escalades and jewelry, I certainly won't stop you. Get gold teeth if you want. I prefer to invest my money in the market and come out with even more money. I'm merely pointing out that the benefits of a cheap mini respec far outweigh the loss of performance you'd suffer from having a gimped min max build that hasn't hit maturity yet.
Also, are you saying implying a mostly free market is messed up?
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Why would you ignore the richest demographic?
Devs made the respec auction system just to troll the richest 1% of the player base, and it has obviously worked based on the vitriol in the auction thread between all the rich players outbidding each other. So you aren't being ignored, congrats, you are being trolled.
However, the respec auction system might as well not exist to the rest of us, so if we want to make a small tweak to our builds, our options are 1. give up half our XP 2. give up all our XP. I'm saying why not add a third option : "spend a significant but obtainable amount of gold to move a few points around". If you honestly oppose this concept, then you are just saying you want to further accelerate the death of the mod. Enjoy your 28 Masterwork items on the empty servers.
P.S.-Leave your contradictory political statements out of this thread. Although I enjoyed the irony of you defending liberalism in the same paragraph that you brag about how you exploit the poor for personal gain.
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Estimating upwards when that's the highest possible value? I believe a safer positive estimation is 300k. It's not much after like 30 hours of playing. Still waiting on the 2 weeks question.
About the marketplace, it seems to have so much gold that it dwarfs making your own. I doubt most players make all that much every day, too, so it does baffle me in some areas. It's not too difficult for a single person to get money right now since people would rather have looms and only a few need to hoard gold; but if something like a mini-respec option comes out, I'm certain it would be a lot more difficult to obtain that gold.
Just trying to say that the prices are not that farfetched when looking at making money just from playing for many hours.