cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Konrax on May 14, 2011, 01:20:53 am
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With the changes to the shield heirlooms they are very unattractive to spend the points on.
The extra speed is barely noticeable compared to the extra hp and armour offered before.
Can we please return them back to how they were before?
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As far as I can tell, every heirloom got gimped. It was a major blanket change. Nothing is attractive anymore. 'sept you shuga :blow kiss: :winkyface:
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Heirloom modifiers were changed across the board because they were too powerfull, shields included.
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Those that heirloomed shields (same as horses) are just terribly unlucky since the devs decided to nerf those heirlooms after the heirloom redistribution. Lucky us. :?
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Anyone have the new and old stats of a shield heirloom? I never saw heirloomed shields as much of a problem.
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Anyone have the new and old stats of a shield heirloom? I never saw heirloomed shields as much of a problem.
As an example, here is a masterworked heavy round shield pre-patch:
weight: 8
body armor: 21
difficulty: 3
hit points: 445
spd rtng: 84
shield width: 40
Can't use on horseback
Here's a masterworked heavy round shield post-patch:
weight: 7.5
body armor: 19
difficulty: 4
hit points: 378
speed rating: 87
shield width: 39
Can't use on horseback
So it loses a ton of HP and some body armor but gains speed (which is worthless anyway)
I'm honestly fine with them nerfing shield heirlooms I just wished they did it when they nerfed everything else. Instead I now have a masterworked shield that is far inferior to the plain old Huscarl. The real problem is, before the shield heirlooms were nerfed, you could make a bad shield decent and add to much needed shield diversity. As it stands, you're just better off using the Huscarl again. :?
For reference, here's a plain old, non-heirloomed huscarl:
weight: 9
body armor: 20
difficulty: 5
hit points: 400
speed rating: 80
shield width: 42
Can't use on horseback
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Fair enough. I buy your argument about shield heirlooms.
+1 to supporters of the thread.
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It's fine and i heirloomed my shield.
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As far as I can tell, every heirloom got gimped. It was a major blanket change. Nothing is attractive anymore. 'sept you shuga :blow kiss: :winkyface:
Armor, gloves, and boots heirlooming got even more attractive with the hardened/lordly buff.
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Here's a masterworked heavy round shield post-patch:
weight: 7.5
body armor: 19
difficulty: 4
hit points: 378
speed rating: 87
shield width: 39
Can't use on horseback
Here's the regular shield
Heavy Round Shield
weight: 7.5
body armor: 15
difficulty: 4
hit points: 325
speed rating: 84
shield width: 39
So +4 armor (26%), +53 health (16%), +3 speed, so very well worth it. Full heirloomed weapon has +3 (10%) damage increase now.
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a fully heirloomed weapon might only do +3 base damage, but that gets amplified significantly once you factor in power strike and movement bonus. Shields don't get nearly as amplified.
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Here's the regular shield
Heavy Round Shield
weight: 7.5
body armor: 15
difficulty: 4
hit points: 325
speed rating: 84
shield width: 39
So +4 armor (26%), +53 health (16%), +3 speed, so very well worth it. Full heirloomed weapon has +3 (10%) damage increase now.
I'm not saying that heirlooming shields isn't worth it (as any bonus is better than none), more that they've again taken away any reason to use a shield other than the huscarl.
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Can any of the item devs let us know if the shield heirloom will stay?
If so is there going to be a chance to change them?
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Prepatch Steel Shield Stats:
Steel Shield
body armor: 74
difficulty: 6
hit points: 236
speed rating: 61
shield width: 31
Thick Steel Shield
body armor: 76
difficulty: 6
hit points: 273
speed rating: 61
shield width: 31
Reinforced Steel Shield
body armor: 79
difficulty: 6
hit points: 299
speed rating: 61
shield width: 31
Masterpiece Steel Shield
body armor: 82
difficulty: 6
hit points: 331
speed rating: 61
shield width: 31
Can't tell about postpatch, because I lost my old character. Can somebody with shield skill 6 or more buy a Steel Shield and go to Retirement section and show its current stats?
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+53 hit points, + 4 armour, +3 speed.
Masterpiece Steel Shield Current Stats
body armor: 78
difficulty: 6
hit points: 289
speed rating: 64
shield width: 31
Masterpiece Steel Shield Previous Stats
body armor: 82
difficulty: 6
hit points: 331
speed rating: 61
shield width: 31
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Bump~
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Masterpiece Steel Shield Current Stats
body armor: 78
difficulty: 6
hit points: 289
speed rating: 64
shield width: 31
Masterpiece Steel Shield Previous Stats
body armor: 82
difficulty: 6
hit points: 331
speed rating: 61
shield width: 31
best part is the title of this thread is "Shield Heirloom VERY gimp now"
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oh god... no wonder i've noticed my shield breaking way easier... they gimped the shit out of it after I heirloomed it. why?!?! my build is becoming less viable, agi shielders need more love, not more hate. i already hit like a little girl and die in 1-2 hits, now im noticing athletics seeming to do less, and my shield is breaking easier. meanwhile, str builds are all laughing their asses off as their armour is more useful than before and they arent getting circles run around them as much as they used to. boooooooooooooo.
masterwork huscarl
weight: 9
body armor: 24
difficulty: 5
hit points: 453
speed rating: 83
shield width: 42
if it looked that bad when i was putting the points into it, i prolly woulda heirloomed another weapon, or some armour.
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Agreed.
I retired and went shielder after a long period of playing pure 2h build (havent heard those "Gnjus cant play without his shield" comments for some time now, anyone ?). I spent 3 loom points in shield and the next day evil my old friendader the Cadaver (aka NerFasa) nerfs the loomed shields and makes 'em even more useless then they were yesterday (being breaked even by a dozen arrows, not to mention 1 or 2 axe hits, and we're talking about heavy rounder with 6 shield skill here). I'm seriously considering to kick him out of our clan for that.
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Agreed.
I retired and went shielder after a long period of playing pure 2h build (havent heard those "Gnjus cant play without his shield" comments for some time now, anyone ?). I spent 3 loom points in shield and the next day evil my old friendader the Cadaver (aka NerFasa) nerfs the loomed shields and makes 'em even more useless then they were yesterday (being breaked even by a dozen arrows, not to mention 1 or 2 axe hits, and we're talking about heavy rounder with 6 shield skill here). I'm seriously considering to kick him out of our clan for that.
+1
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+2
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So can we expect a change to the shield heirlooms in the near future?
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a fully heirloomed weapon might only do +3 base damage, but that gets amplified significantly once you factor in power strike and movement bonus. Shields don't get nearly as amplified.
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Bump~
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I have a masterpiece knightly heater shield now and the extra 3 speed is not really worth the extra hp and armour lost on the shield.
Before my shield (2x bonus) would last nearly as long as a huscarl while being significantly faster but at a significant reduction of block radius.
Now it is a bit tougher and imperceptibly faster for 3 heirloom points.
Compared to the bonus weapons and armour get, shields are not in line.
Please un-nerf shield heirlooms!!
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I'm not saying that heirlooming shields isn't worth it (as any bonus is better than none), more that they've again taken away any reason to use a shield other than the huscarl.
Huscarl is 2 slots, your masterwork heavy round shield is only 1 slot, right?
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Huscarl is 2 slots, your masterwork heavy round shield is only 1 slot, right?
Indeed it is. However, that fact doesn't really affect your average shielder. The only benefit that has is that I can carry a pike (where I can't use my shield anyway) or use a crossbow (which I think defeats the purpose of being a shielder.
My main point is the shield heirloom nerf really hurt shield diversity again. Previously, you could take a crappy shield that you like and heirloom it to where it would become decent. Now you can heirloom a weak shield and it's...less crappy?
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Honestly it seems like they tried to buff shield hierlooms by adding a speed bonus, but also indirectly nerfed them significantly when they drastically reduced the core bonus the shield gets, which is that it becomes a tougher shield.
Other lower tier shields could become comparable to a huscarl unheirloomed before, now they are still just lower tier shields that are just slightly less crappy.
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Gnjus can't play without his shield! Damn noob!
@topic Shields heirlooms are fine, in line with every other nerfed heirloom. They are all close to nothing.
This is just a shielder whine thread, mimimi buff my loom.
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Gnjus can't play without his shield! Damn noob!
@topic Shields heirlooms are fine, in line with every other nerfed heirloom. They are all close to nothing.
This is just a shielder whine thread, mimimi buff my loom.
Its the fact that they changed the heirloom the day after the reset.
And that it looked like they tried to buff them but really didn't
Read the thread next time ggkthx.
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Gnjus can't play without his shield! Damn noob!
@topic Shields heirlooms are fine, in line with every other nerfed heirloom. They are all close to nothing.
This is just a shielder whine thread, mimimi buff my loom.
:)
Krampino.
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I like pole, ride it all the time. I gain nothing from a shield loom redist +1 to your cause brother man.
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Who wastes heirloom on a shield?
Also someone said shield speed is useless. Not true. It matters when your ping is 50 higher. It determines if you block or if you are deaded. I never get a shield below 90 speed more or less as I live slightly "in the country" with a slightly higher ping.
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Dev team please look at the shield problem.
Heirlooming a shield is very unrewarding now and was changed THE DAY AFTER THE HEIRLOOM RESET.
Please look at the current stats that are changed and find a way to make shield heirlooming a more viable and appealing option for players.
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Dev team please look at the shield problem.
Heirlooming a shield is very unrewarding now and was changed THE DAY AFTER THE HEIRLOOM RESET.
Please look at the current stats that are changed and find a way to make shield heirlooming a more viable and appealing option for players.
My Masterwork Sword lost one speed too after heirloom reset.
Dont cry it was never so easy as Shielder.
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My Masterwork Sword lost one speed too after heirloom reset.
Dont cry it was never so easy as Shielder.
The weapon heirlooms didn't really change after the reset.
All shield stats drastically changed after the heirloom reset, not just a single point here or there.
Shields really need to be looked at again by the item team since I believe they were inadvertently nerfed instead of buffed as was intended.
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The weapon heirlooms didn't really change after the reset.
All shield stats drastically changed after the heirloom reset, not just a single point here or there.
Shields really need to be looked at again by the item team since I believe they were inadvertently nerfed instead of buffed as was intended.
The only really shitty thing with shield heirlooms was the fact that they were changed the day after the heirloom reset. If I remember correctly the same thing happened to horses. The shield heirlooms are fine in the sense that they were brought into line with other heirlooms. It did hurt shield diversity a bit as there is no reason to heirloom a low tier shield, but that's just how it goes.
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The weapon heirlooms didn't really change after the reset.
All shield stats drastically changed after the heirloom reset, not just a single point here or there.
Shields really need to be looked at again by the item team since I believe they were inadvertently nerfed instead of buffed as was intended.
If i gain 3 cut 2 pierce and 2 speed before change and only 3 cut 2 pierce and 1 speed after change the impact is as big as your shieldchange i guess.
About 15% worse then before.
I dont want to say that shield hasnt lost more but swords lost not only a little bit.
In addition all my clanmates wearing shield love their heirloomed shields so it cant be that bad.
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Shields are fine.
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Go away, thread necromancers!
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Shields are balanced!
Wha..?
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Armour got a boost, part of survivability for shielders is the shield.
Intentional nerf or indirect nerf?