cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Palurgee on October 07, 2013, 01:17:20 am
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Sometimes you can block incoming sideswings by blocking in the wrong direction. When I asked about it, someone told me it was called a "lazy block"
Can someone explain this concept to me?
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You can block either sideswing direction with either side block by just turning your weapon so it faces your opponent. Not sure why it would be called lazy.
There's also a bug where you will occasionally see your block switch immediately after getting hit (either causing you to get hit when you shouldn't have, or block a hit when you shouldn't have). As far as I am aware, this is just the server and client disagreeing on which direction you were blocking.
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Suppose that you are blocking right and the attacker attacks from right. You block it. Next, the attacker attacks from left and you tilt your character's stance to the left without letting the right block go. This time, you are blocking right but your weapon is positioned so that it still blocks the incoming attack from left. That is what you are asking about I guess.
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What these guys have described is accurate - it's the act of putting up a side block (either side) and instead of switching between left and right side blocks to intercept incoming side attacks, you simply turn your character.
It works decently, but you can run into issues either certain long weapons going around this or certain short ones going "under it" from what i've experienced.
Best to learn to switch between left and right blocks (and the others)...although this method can be helpful in a pinch :)
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I didn't know this was a real thing. I know I do it pretty frequently (mostly unintentionally) with my pike but wasn't really aware what it was. Thanks for explaining it! I thought I was just retarded or something
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I don't think someone uses it intentionally since it's actually harder to do than normal blocking.
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Huh, I never knew that was a thing. Always more to learn~~~
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Its called footwork^^
I don't think someone uses it intentionally since it's actually harder to do than normal blocking.
I actually find it much easier during a fight vs a group. I tend to use my 8 athl to run in between them often rarely changing my block because one direction can block most attacks
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It is actually very useful in fights against multiple enemies, because you can block two different sideswings in quick succession. I think I've done that 2 times in 4 years, but I have seen others doing it more reliable.
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Also useful if you use the inverse attacking directions; go for a chamber, doesn't look like it'll work -> block (It'll probably be the wrong way), turn into the attack.
I do it quite frequently as my style usually has me facing the wrong way :p.
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I've only ever done it on accident (usually when trying to fight against a large group of enemies)
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It is easy and useful once you get used to it. Even a mediocre blocker like me utilizes it to his advantage. Go figure :mrgreen:
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It's easier than you think in ganks. Very useful.
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I use this against people who feint a lot. If they have a non-stabbing weapon it especially helps because then I only have to focus on two directions, sideways or up.
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I don't think someone uses it intentionally since it's actually harder to do than normal blocking.
Wouldn't say I do it intentionally but I naturally do a left block to an opponent on my left regardless of the swing he is doing, or if I fuck up something I often do a quick save by turning my block. It allows you to keep your camera where you want it in a group fight. It just makes sense. I know some patch accidentally removed this feature and then I quickly found out exactly how much I used it. I made a thread within like an hour of playing because I kept dying when I shouldn't have. Luckily it was re-added soon after.
This seems to really fuck up when trying to block horse slashers though. I just turn any block in between me and the incoming slash but I've had it cut straight through a bunch of times.
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I use this against people who feint a lot. If they have a non-stabbing weapon it especially helps because then I only have to focus on two directions, sideways or up.
This.
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Always makes me mad how often people swing around my shield blocks when I am facing right at them, then they block the wrong damn direction with their weapon and still block my swings.
It's been suggested before, but a mechanic that rewards shielders for correct directional blocking (by giving the same lateral coverage as a weapon block and/or delivering a brief stun) would be an awesome addition.
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I think the angle that using the opposite block protects from is harder to judge. It may also make it harder to counter attack or block the next strike because now your camera is off center.
Always makes me mad how often people swing around my shield blocks when I am facing right at them, then they block the wrong damn direction with their weapon and still block my swings.
It's been suggested before, but a mechanic that rewards shielders for correct directional blocking (by giving the same lateral coverage as a weapon block and/or delivering a brief stun) would be an awesome addition.
Shielders have it easy enoug as it is. In order to add an benefit like this, you would have to punish them somehow for not blocking the right way. Most likely in the form of recovery time.
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I do not do this often, although I tend to make it a "Mistake" move or if I get hit with block stun.
Its a panic reflex for me at this point. It rarely happens, but it's good to know in those split second moments.
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Shielders have it easy enoug as it is. In order to add an benefit like this, you would have to punish them somehow for not blocking the right way. Most likely in the form of recovery time.
I can't find the thread, but I think the OP that first suggested this idea said reward a correct block direction with reduced damage to shield and a very brief stun to the attacker (just enough they can't successfully spam a followup attack), and punish an incorrect block direction with additional damage to shield and the same brief stun to the blocker.
A cool idea that would make shield usage less boring, but it'll never happen (WSE etc).
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Lazy-blocking is extremely valuable for a polearm player fighting multiple enemies, or specifically a longspear/pike player fighting off a single spammer. Try to tap-block a steel pick or HBS spamming you and you're gonna get wrecked, but you can lazy-block them pretty well, leading into a block nudge.
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^ classic man we said almost the same shit. yea i learned when i used pike for a few gens. sometimes was more fun just to block haha watch them spam their hearts out
I don't think someone uses it intentionally since it's actually harder to do than normal blocking.
i beg to differ. the lazy block imo is easiest way to block multiple attacks at once and/or a single 2h spammer. basically with the lazy right side block(left side doesn't work as good) you can block both a left and right attack at the same time from multiple attackers, as long as you keep the lazy block basically in the middle which means you'd be looking slightly left
I can't find the thread, but I think the OP that first suggested this idea said reward a correct block direction with reduced damage to shield and a very brief stun to the attacker (just enough they can't successfully spam a followup attack), and punish an incorrect block direction with additional damage to shield and the same brief stun to the blocker.
A cool idea that would make shield usage less boring, but it'll never happen (WSE etc).
i think it would make shielders gods. lots of people can already block like ninjas so imagine a shield that stuns the enemy every time you successfully block?
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This seems to really fuck up when trying to block horse slashers though. I just turn any block in between me and the incoming slash but I've had it cut straight through a bunch of times.
Even more fun when you're 1h cav and slash some guy in the back, but since he's doing a side-block against the guy he's fighting, he magically blocks your hit. crpg logic
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I don't think someone uses it intentionally since it's actually harder to do than normal blocking.
That was actually one of the reasons I survived in gangs using my first person view. In ancient times I made calculations and had a result of 270 degrees blocking technique for side swings and something close to 180 degrees for stabs and overheads. Won't work for shields, it's always something like 180 degrees with any of them.
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i think it would make shielders gods. lots of people can already block like ninjas so imagine a shield that stuns the enemy every time you successfully block?
There is already a brief stun/delay/whatever you want to call it on some attack animations after they are successfully blocked, to encourage the attack/block paradigm and discourage "spam". The only people this would affect would be the hiltslashers that abuse animations to chain a followup swing after being blocked.
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I'm not entirely sure spam is something that should be discouraged. People can already block quite well, so making it impossible to sneak in hits would likely lead to even more fights ending with somebody getting bored.
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I'm not entirely sure spam is something that should be discouraged. People can already block quite well, so making it impossible to sneak in hits would likely lead to even more fights ending with somebody getting bored.
In proposal I mentioned, shield blocking in the incorrect direction would make you more susceptible to being "spammed", so this would probably result in more opportunities to spam, not less.
It's a moot point, because pigs will fly before devs do anything like overhaul the shield system. Maybe sometime after they add goat, sheep, platypus, etc. mounts.
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Only problem I have is how to know if you've stunned them or not. From my experience with block stun, it's just not very good without the proper amount of cues.
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Only problem I have is how to know if you've stunned them or not. From my experience with block stun, it's just not very good without the proper amount of cues.
Block stun is indeed a strange mechanic; you don't really get any obvious cues whether you are on the giving or receiving end. I still can't really distinguish block stun from lag. For this reason, not many people really exploit it, which is probably good. More cues would just further empower strength builds.
I think people that use bar maces and similar are confident that their held attacks will block stun, so they just always follow up held attacks with a regular attack without stopping to block in between. But if you use a claymore or other "mid weight" weapon, you probably don't dish out block stuns reliably enough to really exploit it.
Obviously the "directional shield blocking" idea would require new shield block animations (for each direction), which is another reason it'll never happen in cRPG.
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In proposal I mentioned, shield blocking in the incorrect direction would make you more susceptible to being "spammed", so this would probably result in more opportunities to spam, not less.
The only time most players are going to be missing blocks with any regularity is in a large group fight, where I feel the extra stun would largely hinder the primary role of a shielder.
I would love increased shield damage for missed blocks, and decreased (or completely nullified) shield damage for correct blocks. I've suggested it before a few times. People seemed interested, but it would require a significant investment of time and effort to implement properly (with visual and auditory feedback). I don't imagine we're going to see anything of that scale this late into the life of the mod.
I even made a suggestion on the TW forums (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,275949.0.html) a while back, but I doubt anything will ever come of it.
Only problem I have is how to know if you've stunned them or not. From my experience with block stun, it's just not very good without the proper amount of cues.
Having game mechanics without proper feedback is always lousy. Block stun, hold bonus, and speed bonus are the most significant examples I can think of. Everybody grows accustomed to them eventually, but it takes far longer than it would with proper cues.
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Having game mechanics without proper feedback is always lousy. Block stun, hold bonus, and speed bonus are the most significant examples I can think of. Everybody grows accustomed to them eventually, but it takes far longer than it would with proper cues.
If there were cues, it could cause people abusing it. Strength builds would hold attacks, look for the cue. Then hold an attack again to create no window for the defender to retaliate except through a really risky move or running.
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If there were cues, it could cause people abusing it. Strength builds would hold attacks, look for the cue. Then hold an attack again to create no window for the defender to retaliate except through a really risky move or running.
Several people already make heavy use of block stun. It just took us longer to get to that point due to opaque mechanics. If a mechanic is weak, then it should be brought into the open and abused heavily until fixed.
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Several people already make heavy use of block stun. It just took us longer to get to that point due to opaque mechanics.
I understand your point and I do agree. Although, the Opaqueness helps in the long run because it keeps them guessing.
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Several people already make heavy use of block stun. It just took us longer to get to that point due to opaque mechanics. If a mechanic is weak, then it should be brought into the open and abused heavily until fixed.
I'm amazed the Heavy Great Sword/Nodachi/War cleaver aren't more popular. With a strength build, you can reliably block stun Longsword/1h/spear users with these swords, and a lot of people don't properly recognize block stun. People see a maul/bar mace/etc and expect to get block stunned on held attacks, but it's probably more surprising with a sword. When I was 33/9 with a Long Bardiche, block stun was probably responsible for half my kills.
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I agree with Saul about the animation cues.
That was my biggest complaint about WotR was that there was no real feedback or difference in animation between swinging and missing, swinging and being blocked, and swinging and hitting someone.